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教育王國 › 討論區 › 備戰大學 › 無限風光　在新高中
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無限風光　在新高中 [複製鏈接]

elbar

Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13Rank: 13


77505
1#
發表於 12-12-27 10:17 |只看該作者 |倒序瀏覽 |打印
http://www.singtao.com/news_special/kas/index.asp?id=6547


　　  聖誕假期，有人留港過節，有人外出散心，不少中產父母，則會飛到外地，跟留學子女度聖誕。近年，中產家庭子女放洋成風，長假期不是子女回港團聚，就是父母外出探訪，所有升學資訊，都是有在學子女市民的熱門話題。

五**喜接佳音

  今個月，教育局首次公布新高中會考的成績，最高級別的五**，獲英國大學及院校招生事務處（UCAS），評為一百四十五分，比英國GCE A Level最好評級的一百四十分還要高，簡單點說，如果在香港拿到這個成績，應可以橫掃英國的名校，對於要在港應考的家長，理應是好消息。

  現屆政府上台後，教育局面對不少棘手難題，國教引來軒然大波，打得相關官員手足無措，其後殺來的中學減班，教育局驚魂甫定，好不容易拆了彈。本來，按照政府的預算，新高中考試實施，無論在資歷評審和學生應考，都有不少實際問題要顧慮，因為考試涉及學生升學，學校和家長都非常緊張，只要稍出亂子，後果可以非常巨大。

有大學校長認同

  過去，會考和大學入學試，都是採用水平參照形式，今次改制不無風險，但現在五**獲得甚高評價，至少在評審上令負責官員鬆了一口氣。放假前，齊秀峰和大學校長談起這次改制，校長反應頗為正面，認為新高中考試雖曾惹起批評，但外國不少考評機構，其實非常羨慕香港可以這樣改革，相信這個考試假以時日，必定可以獲得很高的國際認受性。

  五**獲得外國認可，對新高中改制打了一支強心針，但革命是否就此成功呢？相信路途還很遙遠，因為考試制度有不同用家，收生學校是持份者之一，學生家長是另一個。今年的新高中考試，評分出來似乎相當手鬆，但有大專界認為，原先當局用作參考的「三三二二」入學成績，很大可能是低估了入學標準，不少取得這個成績的學生，日後會發覺不易獲得八所資助學校收錄，屆時可能就會出現問題。

家長疑慮仍未息

  另外，今年不少考生在中文科觸礁，將來中文科是否需要調整，以及如何調整，仍然有待斟酌。最重要的是，現在無論學生和家長，仍在新制的適應期，中間有很多焦慮和不滿，如何盡早減低他們的不安感覺，是相關政策局一大要務。

  推行多年的教育改革，希望減少學生考試壓力，推動讀書不是求分數的文化，現實是本地資助大學學位有限，外出升學費用不斷增加，新高中考試的壓力揮之不去，考試評審獲得外國良好反應，是好的開始，卻不能解決所有問題，所以教育局要把握好消息帶來的寶貴機會，優化和推動新制，如果錯過了時機，到氣候逆轉，再做就已經太遲。
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ANChan59

Rank: 14Rank: 14Rank: 14Rank: 14


120214
2#
發表於 12-12-27 12:25 |只看該作者
過去，會考和大學入學試，都是採用水平參照形式，

不是HKDSE才改為水平參照.... 以前是拉Curve吧！
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

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chunyatmama

Rank: 5Rank: 5


3101
3#
發表於 12-12-28 09:29 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 chunyatmama 於 12-12-28 09:32 編輯

It's interesting that the press would like to describ it as something good!?  What so good?  Why we need the students to face such difficult examination?  Why not line up the standard with other countries?  Why those kids from US or UK do not need to take such a difficult exam but they still can fly high with colour in their future?  Why torture our kids?

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Shootastar

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7


11801
4#
發表於 12-12-28 11:06 |只看該作者
回復 chunyatmama 的帖子

It is a total failure of our Education Department.

In DSE, only about 10% students would get 5. Out of that 10%, about 30% would get 5* and 10% would get 5**.

If there are 10,000 students attempted a particular subject, about 100 students would get 5** and 300 would get 5*.

The top score for a subject is about 4% in HKDSE.

No matter it is IB, AL or AP, the highest score would be around 15% to 20%, some subjects may have 30% top scores.

Why do we need the colonial education system to classify the students? Our Education Department owes us an explanation.

Can we say that a student gets more 5** is better than one who get the same number of score 5 (without the star or 2 stars)? The answer is obviously no.

The drop of 5* and 5** is a way out. 10% of the students taking a particular subject obtaining the highest score is in line with the overseas standard. There is nothing to celebrate that our 5** is awarded the highest UCAS score. Definitely it is not a good news.

點評

ModernFamily12  Shootastar, you are absolutely right,  發表於 13-1-1 18:00
chunyatmama  Totally agree with you!  發表於 12-12-28 11:46

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abcd0001

Rank: 5Rank: 5


3060
5#
發表於 12-12-28 12:07 |只看該作者
Shootastar 發表於 12-12-28 11:06
回復 chunyatmama 的帖子

It is a total failure of our Education Department.

Basically, I agree your point.

In order to gain the recognition from oversea, I think, they intent to set a higher stardand for level 5 which is a reference point for the whole system.

I would guess the whole log of F6 student to take GCE AL, the % of getting A or above should not less than 20%, 10% is articifically marked down.  

It is depended on the department to adjust the % of level 5 in the coming years to reflect the fair standard of HK students. It is told level 5 is a fixed standard which the % of student should be variable ie can go up quickly!

點評

joyjoyparent  i think the hkeaa just wants to make it easier for the universities of hk to choose students!  發表於 13-1-31 17:43

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judy

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7


11251
6#
發表於 12-12-28 12:52 |只看該作者
任何國家大家，都是收最Top某個%嘅人入學。對返轉頭，港人全考GCE AL、英國考DSE，我估整日呼天搶地的仍是港人。現時港人考GCE AL覺輕鬆，只因第一多學位、第二對手弱。

要港人仔女覺得輕鬆，除非，1.當增加大學學額至50%人可入U。2.當每對夫婦生3至4個。3.當讀完大學出來掃街都冇所謂的時候。

"無限風光在高中"，top2%勤力港人，比人家top10%只多10幾分，已開心成咁，低鬼能。

點評

hhma  任何制度, 都有人考第一, 有人考第尾架啦.  就算50% 5**, 都要想方法分勝負架  發表於 12-12-28 14:51
hhma    發表於 12-12-28 14:50

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Shootastar

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7


11801
7#
發表於 12-12-28 15:27 |只看該作者
回復 judy 的帖子

Although there are more than 10% of highest grade in each subject (no matter IB, AP or AL), the elite colleges in the world (such as Oxbridge, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, MIT etc) can differentiate the top students.

The elite or top colleges would use a holistic approach to assess a student for admission purpose. They use a number of indicators to differentiate the students, such as the scores of the public examination, the performance at school, the personal statement, the school and counsellor's recommendations, performance at the interview, activities, services, special talents, leadership skills etc. They would not use the public examination result as the sole factor to admit students.

It is quite outdated to rely on the public examination as the sole factor to admit students. For most elite schools, so long as you obtain a level of performance (such as IB:38, AL: 4A or A*, SAT: 2,200 etc), they would not mind whether you have IB 43, 44 or 45.

The differentiation of 5 into 5* and 5** in DSE examination create unnecessary pressure and anguish to the students (even they are top students in Hong Kong). This is a bad policy indeed.

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ANChan59    發表於 12-12-28 16:31

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chunyatmama

Rank: 5Rank: 5


3101
8#
發表於 12-12-28 15:44 |只看該作者
Shootastar 發表於 12-12-28 15:27
回復 judy 的帖子

Although there are more than 10% of highest grade in each subject (no matter IB, A ...

Well said!

To me, a straight A student or a straight B student makes no difference to me as they are academically up to standard.  Yet, a good quality student with leadership skill, willing to serve the classmates and community and a well presented personal statement will definitely with additional marks!

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ANChan59    發表於 12-12-28 16:32

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judy

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7


11251
9#
發表於 12-12-28 17:41 |只看該作者
The elite or top colleges would use a holistic approach to assess a student for admission purpose. They use a number of indicators to differentiate the students, such as the scores of the public examination, the performance at school, the personal statement, the school and counsellor's recommendations, performance at the interview, activities, services, special talents, leadership skills etc. They would not use the public examination result as the sole factor to admit students.


我就咁諗，呢啲係分數通脹，考評失效而各校補救措施。

如教評局如將分數升呢，入大學率不變，學校、學生不會因此更舒服。學生一樣要勤力才能入U，就象今年一樣，4455才有望入U，變成5*5*5*5*才有機入U，得到４個5*的人，會因而更高興嗎？

當4個5*才有機入U時，學生競爭的戰場不是DSE了，而是平時無時無刻的考試，非正常的服務(有國際視野嗰啲)、課外活動，面試班。現在，當我聽見有父母為子女入大學而安排n場面試練習時，我仍可竊笑其有咁純品嘅孩子(肯俾嗰老豆舞n次)，但將來，可能變成常態.....

國民黨退守台灣前，聽說要挑一担錢才可吃碗麵，老一輩人視之為苦，估唔到依家有人豎起拇指，仲掩嘴笑啲唔喜歡通帳嘅人。

老人家挑一担錢，我哋可視之為浪費气力。學校、僱主要花九牛二虎之力才可分出優劣，係唔係社會資源嘅浪費呢？


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Shootastar

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7


11801
10#
發表於 12-12-29 11:23 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 Shootastar 於 12-12-29 11:59 編輯

The purpose of education is not only to provide knowledge to our kids. It helps dedicate their minds to inquiry, their hearts to compassion and their lives to service and understanding.

Services and leadership skills help to develop one's passion. the skills of enquiry and analytic minds are transferable and useful in future studies or employment. So it is important that our kids could develop such skills while they receive their secondary education. Without passion, the kids only apply the knowledge learnt in a mechanical way. Passion in fact makes people to do great things.

The award of a score 5 in HKDSE is based on the attainment of a benchmark. So the students of score 5 should obtain the benchmark whether he is a 5, 5* or 5** student.

On the other hand, it takes a lot of energy and time for them to compete (or obtain) for a 5* (or even 5**). If 5* and 5** are scrapped, the students could have more time on learning other transferable skills for their whole lives.

It is therefore a matter of wasting resources of the society in asking the students to compete for a 5* and 5** and disregard other aspects of learning.

Certainly, it is not a matter of wasting resources of the society if the employers are not provided with a diploma having 5* or 5**. The employers and colleges would know how the students perform with regard to other indicators so as to make an informed decision on the applicants. This explains why Oxbridge only requires an offer of IB:41 or AAA* (AL). Most elite colleges in UK (other than Oxbridge) would just require IB:38 or AAA (A-L)for medicine or law. They do not require A*A*A* or IB 41. In case of US colleges, they adopt the holistic approach many years ago.  

All elite colleges in the world would know how to differentiate good students based on their "top" scores - which has 10% to 20% out of tens of thousands of applicants.

I am afraid that the point of divergence is the purpose of education.

點評

eschung    發表於 13-2-16 21:59

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ANChan59

Rank: 14Rank: 14Rank: 14Rank: 14


120214
11#
發表於 12-12-29 14:46 |只看該作者
回復 Shootastar 的帖子

明白的人會明白，唔明白始終唔明白。
有多少家長的子女如你孩子般優秀，你的分享對我來說是有說服力，是普通認知，而非甚麼大法，真言。好有參考價值。
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

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youma

Rank: 5Rank: 5


4775
12#
發表於 13-2-11 23:02 |只看該作者
Shootastar 發表於 12-12-29 11:23
The purpose of education is not only to provide knowledge to our kids. It helps dedicate their minds ...
I disagree to your point. Merely providing 5 and scrapping 5*/5** would give a very vague differentiation between elite and normal students. That will lead to mismatching, unfairness and inefficient allocation of resources.
Top universities will spend even more effort to identify the elite students to fill up the places.
For some specialized disciplines like law, math, medicine, natural sciences, actuary, every society needs the elites. We select the most outstanding suitable students to pursue under the limited number of university places.
We do not have infinite resources for the training.



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Shootastar

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7


11801
13#
發表於 13-2-13 10:16 |只看該作者
回復 youma 的帖子

I agree with you that we need elite students to study medicine, law, actuary, or others and serve the society. The differentiation of elite students, however, should not be limited to the sole indicators of the number of 5 star or 5 star star. As said in the above, we should use a number of indicators to make the differentiation.
I know you are in disagreement with me. I am afraid that the point of divergence is the meaning and purpose of education.

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whooammii


305
14#
發表於 13-2-16 14:08 |只看該作者
提示: 作者被禁止或刪除 內容自動屏蔽

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laorenjia

Rank: 5Rank: 5


1524
15#
發表於 13-2-16 17:06 |只看該作者
回復 whooammii 的帖子

My dear friend, we are talking about students who score 5 or above. If a student obtaines an average of 5 in all subjects, we are talking about the top 3 or 4% of the students already. These student sure will have an offer from a local university. You're talking totally different things.

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judy  搭錯線。  發表於 13-2-18 10:29

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whooammii


305
16#
發表於 13-2-16 19:17 |只看該作者
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eschung

Rank: 4


774
17#
發表於 13-2-16 22:52 |只看該作者
DSE的學生為了爭取那少數的星星入讀心儀學系，被迫將所有時間投放在有限的科目和考試範圍内，每天離不開補课、補習、及操練，那份壓力比當年會考更甚，讀書以外的能力和德育品格相對變得毫不重要。當初新增的OLE ，面試或個人陳述都變得形同虚設。在這種制度下只能訓練出一班急功近利的考場高手而非全能精英。未來的香港需要更多認真探求學問，具創意和品格高尚的大學生，新高中只是换湯不換藥的考試制度，實在無補於事。

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Shootastar  I can't agree with you more. Very succinct comments.  發表於 13-2-16 23:30

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ANChan59

Rank: 14Rank: 14Rank: 14Rank: 14


120214
18#
發表於 13-2-17 13:36 |只看該作者
回復 eschung 的帖子

同意，所以選正式的 lB，而棄現時虛有其表的NSS，讓孩子在付出後得回終身受用的回報。
OLE是要有策略，輔導，及挑戰性。面試要有不少準備，個人描述十分有啓發性及前瞻性。試問一般學校如何做得到，數星星易些，其他做更多，學生冇乜星星，都是冇用。
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

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laorenjia

Rank: 5Rank: 5


1524
19#
發表於 13-2-17 15:42 |只看該作者
To Whooammii

Sorry.原來你知道自己講嘅嘢係唔同嘅嘢。

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judy

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7


11251
20#
發表於 13-2-18 11:16 |只看該作者
DSE的學生為了爭取那少數的星星入讀心儀學系，被迫將所有時間投放在有限的科目和考試範圍内，每天離不開補课、補習、及操練，那份壓力比當年會考更甚，讀書以外的能力和德育品格相對變得毫不重要。當初新增的OLE ，面試或個人陳述都變得形同虚設。在這種制度下只能訓練出一班急功近利的考場高手而非全能精英。未來的香港需要更多認真探求學問，具創意和品格高尚的大學生，新高中只是换湯不換藥的考試制度，實在無補於事。


假使DSE嘅成績跟英國會考或IB咁逐年通帳，星不再是星，5即是星、甚至4即是星，情形又如何呢？咁樣吹水又得：

由於拿星星嘅人比大學容量還多，學生被迫將大部分時間投放在課外活動，由於學生眾多，獨居老人家或弱勢社群人數不足，初初，老人家被迫加班被服務以照顧眾多學生。後來，被服務沿變成生意，弱勢社群因收取被服務費得以脫貧。另外，為了突出服務嘅"含金量"，大批港童參加非洲服務。
......."讀書、運動、服務" 最終變成訓練出一班急功近利的吹水"全能精英"。

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