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教育王國 討論區 小學雜談 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作
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英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作 [複製鏈接]

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240
1#
發表於 05-1-20 09:26 |只看該作者

英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

【明報專訊】如何有效教授英語﹖英國一項研究發現,教導英文文法(grammar)無助改善學生寫作技巧,更指對中小學生講解動詞、名詞是「浪費時間」。本港小學校長回應表示,英語是香港學生的外語,情

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256
2#
發表於 05-1-20 10:26 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

Hi Adayeung, thanks for bringing this up.

Communicative approach leads to a drop in English standard???  It sounds silly to me.  I am frustrated by all these nonsense.  Look at the following piece of writing done by a P1 student (not a native English speaker) from a non-mainstream school:

"once upon a time there was a girl who is allways very happy.  she has a brother who was allways very sad, they have diferent friend that has diferent feelings.  one of the friend of the brother was allways sad.  another was allways very silly.  the three one was angry.  the four was jealos.  that is why brother was allways sad.  the little girl friend are happy thinkful playful and musico.  that is why the little girl was allways happy."

A lovely piece, isn't it?  The teacher loves the piece and encourages the young little writer to write more.  Yet, if that kid got 5 points deducted for each grammatical error and spelling mistake he made, he would have scored zero!  Without a doubt, I will prefer a school that produces boys and girls who can write something like that to a school whose kids fare well in dictation but can only write something like "I am a boy.  She is a girl".  It is a known fact that grammar is not taught among the lower grade students at international schools.  Why should we kill the local students’ learning instinct by forcing them to learn grammar at tender age?

Communicative approach leads to a drop in students English standard if the students are taught not to communicate or the teachers are not quite able to communicate well.

warrrren

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2444
3#
發表於 05-1-20 10:46 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

warrrren:

You have your point, but have you seen the English of primary pupils in local schools using such communicative approach?  I support such approach, but only if we have:
1. small small class of less than 20 or even 15 pupils
2. native English teachers teaching all English classes
3. 2-3 lessons of English every day, and the entire school should have an all-English environment
4. responsible and knowledgeable parents who can read story books and speak English with their kids

So, the issue here is not whether the approach works or not. We are simply not ready to adopt this approach yet (if ever).  I agree that this approach will somehow kill their creativity by forcing them to conform to the "model answer", but at least they can write some English.  The current situation in most local HK school is that the kids can't write at all.  Using this approach is not helping their creativity.  On the other hand they can't learn much English either.

It is not fair to criticize the students for their poor English skills.  It's the system.  They are just the products of this gigantic education factory.  If the products suck, blame the management, not the products or the workers.
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4#
發表於 05-1-20 10:47 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

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5#
發表於 05-1-20 10:57 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

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256
6#
發表於 05-1-20 11:46 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

Dear BillyM and Philipwhau,

I support such approach, but only if we have:
1. small small class of less than 20 or even 15 pupils
2. native English teachers teaching all English classes
3. 2-3 lessons of English every day, and the entire school should have an all-English environment
4. responsible and knowledgeable parents who can read story books and speak English with their kids

The absolutely wrong thing that the Education Department done in the past was that it forced all the local schools switching from "Grammatical Approach" to "Communicative Approach" way of teaching English in 80's given insufficient resources, for example, to provide sufficient native English speaking teachers for the schools.


Do we need native English speaking teachers to teach P1 to P3 students to communicate in simple English?  I do not believe that our locally trained teachers are that deficient and incompetent.  It is not rocket science.  Just let the kids read read read and write write write and speak speak speak without criticizing them or correcting them too much, and they will excel.  The magic with the foreign teachers is that they are more often more open minded.  It is equally worse to have a foreign teacher criticising the kids' grammar all the time.  A local teacher who speaks with a funny accent but can bring the kids the joy of learning is by far a better teacher than a native English speaking teacher who speaks the Queen's English but knows nothing but grammar.

So, the issue here is not whether the approach works or not. We are simply not ready to adopt this approach yet (if ever).  I agree that this approach will somehow kill their creativity by forcing them to conform to the "model answer", but at least they can write some English.


What is the cause and what is the consequence?  An English environment is of course an aid to learning.  There can be no doubt about it.  However, if the kids are made to be afraid of speaking or writing in English for fear of making grammatical mistakes, there will never be a good English learning environment.  Good learning environment is not a pre-condition for switching to the right approach; rather, a poor leaning environment is the result of following the wrong approach.

We can never get the kids better prepared to learn if we as parents or teachers fail to do our job to make them feel the fun part of learning.  People learn, generally speaking, for two reasons - either they enjoy learning it or they apprehend the need to learn it.  Tell me, which of the followings is more effective - tell the young kids that they have to beg for a living if they do not learn English, or, make learning joyful and fun.  It's not just about creativity or forcing the kids to conform to model answer, it is about the basic nature of our human kids.

Best wishes to all,
warrrren
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7#
發表於 05-1-20 11:49 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

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8#
發表於 05-1-20 12:04 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

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193
9#
發表於 05-1-20 12:31 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

Philipwhau 寫道:
Warren,

I agree to the above points raised by BillyM.

One remark I would like to point out here.  The absolutely wrong thing that the Education Department done in the past was that it forced all the local schools switching from "Grammatical Approach" to "Communicative Approach" way of teaching English in 80's given insufficient resources, for example, to provide sufficient native English speaking teachers for the schools.  Consequently, Hong Kong students in local schools are all suffered.  They could not listen or speak good English nor they could write a passage that is grammatically correct.


Philip 提及的,真是一針見血,看一般近年畢業的或仍在讀書的的文章就知無可爭辯,文法是語言基礎,任何語言文字都要有文法,沒有此基礎,就是中文也說不好,寫不通,只需看看用icq的人﹝甚至所有網上論壇﹞在寫甚麼就可見一班,再與三十年或之前畢業的人所寫的比較一下,就相形見拙,現在大學畢業的人寫的文往往比三十年前初中程度的人還差,最不幸的是中英文皆不知所謂,沒有文法基礎,就是主因。語言文字,是用來表情達意,現在的人差劣到只可寫有限的口語化的廣東話,再以不中不西的"索"、"硬"搭夠,更遑論porper English,就連"化"﹝如中國化﹞或"性"﹝如穩定性﹞的形容詞也不會用。這說明多年來的教學方向,以致一些家長的看法,都是錯誤的,既然大家說中文是母語,就必須先學好中文而不是一開始就推子女入英文幼稚園、英文小學﹝很多這樣做的家長自己的英文也不甚了了﹞,而是要打好中文基礎,就是大部分家長都嚮往的聖保羅男女也主張先學好中文,小一至小三以中文教授一般科目,小四才開始以英語教,這方面,多些外籍教師也是徒然。

中文其實也需要講究文法,雖然、必須、需要  的分別和用法,以前讀小二已有教授,現在的老師連它們的用法也不懂﹝親眼見過他們用錯﹞!如何去教授呢?老師自己沒有文法基礎,又怎可以教學生文法呢?一提起要回復文法教授,老師們自然會群起反對了。

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11251
10#
發表於 05-1-20 12:38 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

I support such approach, but only if we have:
1. small small class of less than 20 or even 15 pupils
2. native English teachers teaching all English classes
3. 2-3 lessons of English every day, and the entire school should have an all-English environment
4. responsible and knowledgeable parents who can read story books and speak English with their kids


有第4點,足矣。

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11251
11#
發表於 05-1-20 12:46 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

文法是語言基礎,任何語言文字都要有文法,沒有此基礎,就是中文也說不好,寫不通,


同意。就像小學學成語,初中努力運用,中四、五可少用成話套話那些死的語言,盡量運用活的文字。年紀大了,又可加一些口語,以求地道和準确。

一步一步来,基礎是打回来的。

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418
12#
發表於 05-1-20 12:46 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

有第4點, 但無時間, 只好俾錢人教, 買好昂貴vcd......


2714
13#
發表於 05-1-20 14:17 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

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14#
發表於 05-1-20 15:20 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

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115
15#
發表於 05-1-20 15:23 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

看到這個題目,很想分享一下。最近正修讀一個中英翻譯課程,覺得收穫良多。其中一教授曾引述一翻譯大帥所說:如要讀好英文,一是Read good English books, 二是 Respect Grammar.  很喜歡他用 Respect (尊重) 來形容我們應該對待Grammar 的態度。畢竟修讀一種語文,其實是修讀它的文化,要讀的範籌很大很深,况且除了writing 以外,還有listening, speaking and comprehension呢!

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193
16#
發表於 05-1-20 16:05 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

"有第4點, 但無時間, 只好俾錢人教, 買好昂貴vcd...... "

容許我問一問:各位家長在計劃生育下一代時,有沒有想過將來會沒時間教育他們呢?抑或只是"我想要仔,就有了"呢?給在生兒育女前已承諾並「落實」把所有能騰出的時間都用在兒女身上的人看起來,那只是藉口及推卸責任。養不教.........

"香港教育署(現在教統局前身)在70年代 (不時80年代)行政迫令全香港官、律學校將 “Grammatical Approach (文法式傳授法)” 改為 “Communicative Approach (傳意式傳授法)”"

不大清楚當年是否有"迫令"和正式在何時實施,Philipwhau可否提供多些資料?

"如要讀好英文,一是Read good English books, 二是 Respect Grammar. 很喜歡他用 Respect (尊重) 來形容我們應該對待Grammar 的態度。"

完全同意,只讀文法而不多看書,就難以靈活運用;只有你認識它,才會懂得去尊重它。

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418
17#
發表於 05-1-20 16:13 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

"容許我問一問:各位家長在計劃生育下一代時,有沒有想過將來會沒時間教育他們呢?抑或只是"我想要仔,就有了"呢?給在生兒育女前已承諾並「落實」把所有能騰出的時間都用在兒女身上的人看起來,那只是藉口及推卸責任。養不教........."

有無咁嚴重? 搵食難呀, 大哥大, 日日ot, 兩公婆要工作, 你估唔駛做? 我唔知六年後會咁窮!

:evil:

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193
18#
發表於 05-1-20 16:40 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

很多時,人會說生活迫人,大家當然體諒,不過,在仍有少許選擇時,真的仍希望所有父母多想一下,怎麼樣的安排,才對子女最為有利,賺少些,住細些,省回vcd錢及kumon錢,以換取多一點點時間來親自與子同行,對我來說是值得的,因為光陰一去,到了他八九歲或再大些時,一切已定,你已錯失良機,永沒回頭的時候了。或許大家再要自問,甚麼叫做親子?

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418
19#
發表於 05-1-20 16:56 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

一家唔知一家事, 我唔係得閒唔教而係要搵食,
是否借口, 自己最清楚, 唔駛話養不教誰之過....
係我錯, 我老豆唔係李嘉x, 好吧番去resign, 專心親子....

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193
20#
發表於 05-1-20 17:00 |只看該作者

Re: 英研究﹕教文法無助英文寫作

切實的例子,有網友寫了下面的一段文字:

"My friend's daughter is same as your labour. She does homework until 11pm and always cry  Too much homework and teach you today and dictation tomorrow. Her father wants to quit that school."

恕我領悟力退化,要重讀幾次才估到其意思。香港人,大家還是學好母語,再學英語文法,語文是"浸"出來的,一定要多學多練多用,從來沒人可一步登天或從十三樓開始。
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