有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

Rank: 2


	76

1^#

發表於 04-8-26 21:46 |只看該作者

wmfong

民房

Rank: 1


	19

2^#

發表於 04-8-28 12:22 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

I  have also received the Test Result. But my son got 87 marks. (Below average) (He is 5 and half years old) This made me puzzled and down.  In fact,  the reason for me to do this test is that  I got complaints from
playgroups, kindergarden and church that he did not concentrate in the class, but they said he is clever.

I tried to ask the clerical assistant of this test.  She said it may be due to his age (too young).  Then I wonder this test is not good and not suitable to sell on market!  It wastes time!  And she advised me to do other test (Wyeth's Test)  $2300.  I and my husband will decide to do the Wyeth's test in order to know more about our son.  Much easy to take care him in the future as there is a long road.

What is your idea? As I am a housewife so I know him much. On the other hand,  I really found tired to take care him.  I hope I was just too nerves.

Do anyone know who is the best specialist on Wyeth's test and can provide follow-up service?

HelenMrs.Lau

Rank: 5 Rank: 5


	1099

3^#

發表於 04-8-28 12:50 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

DEAR WMFONG，
PLEASE VISIT
http://www.step-hk.com/
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION∼∼∼

wmfong

民房

Rank: 1


	19

4^#

發表於 04-8-28 13:28 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

Dear Mrs. Lau,

Thanks a lot! I was a beginner to use this website though I have used pc since 2002. Being a housewife I am really "out" of the society . It is so lucky to receive your prompt reply. Nice to meet you!

HelenMrs.Lau

Rank: 5 Rank: 5


	1099

5^#

發表於 04-8-30 12:48 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

wmfong 寫道:
Dear Mrs. Lau,

Thanks a lot! I was a beginner to use this website though I have used pc since 2002. Being a housewife I am really "out" of the society . It is so lucky to receive your prompt reply. Nice to meet you!

You are welcome

Hope the Web-site is useful for you

Dr.T

Rank: 5 Rank: 5


	2324

6^#

發表於 04-9-1 00:49 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

鑑於有不少人懷疑由明日棟樑教育基金(下稱基金)舉辨,我*作義務顧問(全數評估費歸基金作各項慈善活動之用,我分文沒取),的"香港兒學童智能檢查"的測試內容及結果,作為一個專業的心理學家,我覺得有必要在此解釋一下:

1.所有評估結果(四月及七月的檢查共約3000人!)均由我為每一位參加者親自按雷文氏的香港基準評分,基金只負責行政工作. 若說他們操控結果以吸引家長參加其他活動,實在是對我專業操守的侮辱!而且我亦絕不會容許以我作顧問的智能檢查活動有這些事情發生.

2.當初我得出檢查中有兩成分數達資優時(130--順帶一提,另一機構舉辦同類活動時連這簡單的一點也攪錯,我懷疑他們的專業性!),我也有些錯愕,但細心分析,其實基金舉辦這兩次活動參加的根本不是"平均"的家長--試想想要父母星期天花半日時間帶孩子到交通並不十分方便的浸大,若非平日察覺到小朋友有甚麼"特別",否則怎會願意做?但我預期隨著檢查地點的方便化及檢查本身的普及化,"資優"的比例會慢慢降低.當然長遠而言的希望智能檢查是學校每年評核的一部分,就如南區某著名國際學校的做法一樣.

3.我個人相信檢查的作用在於令家長對孩子多一個客觀的了解,反之我對部分家長太著重分數有很大的保留.況且我一直不斷強調雷文氏是有局限的(例如年紀太少,沒有參加考試的經驗,比較坐不定的,如網友wmfong的孩子,未必適合).家長並不要因為一次的分數對小朋友的將來灰心,始終韋氏才是智能測驗的"黃金標準�Gold Standard".

4.政府機構是不會只因家長想知道小朋友的能力而為他們作智能測驗的.市面上不少私人機構可提供此服務,網友Helen Mrs.Lau 所提及的只是其中一間,家長可在網上自行搜尋.

*為免有自我宣傳之嫌各家長可自行找出"我"是誰

cchp

民房

Rank: 1


	15

7^#

發表於 04-9-1 18:00 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

大兒子也參加過7月4日的測驗，得分為117分，他也於6月因學業成績低落經學校社工轉介的教育心理學家用韋氏作評估，語言部份為8分(9-11分為平均分)，而操控部份的其中一部份如砌立體模型卻有17分(19分為滿分)。由於他年少是語言遲緩，手眼協調較弱，有少許讀寫困難，但繪畫及砌lego是他的強項，所以我認為此分數合理。

但於同日參加一位小四的小朋友，他於校內成績數一數二，參加珠心算班要跳級，談話內容像大人，但分數卻只得87分，是否有甚麼出錯的地方?

yklee

男爵府

Rank: 6 Rank: 6

醒目開學勳章


	8558

8^#

發表於 04-9-1 21:26 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

我女兒今年5歲半在7月也接受測驟,結果測試得分:65,囡囡成績良好(K1-k2有獎勵)、語言方面可以自己作故事講，學校先生及畫班先生都沒有反影學習有困難，為甚麼Result和在學校、屋企表現咁大不同？

Dr.T

Rank: 5 Rank: 5


	2324

9^#

發表於 04-9-1 22:53 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

Dear yklee & cchp,

1.In order to tackle Raven's (雷文氏)successfully, one must know how to take exams. For most of the preschool kids, taking exam is a daunting task as they have never done it before (BTW, some 5-6 years old got very high mark and that might reflect the training in their schools...)

When I scored the results I also noticed that quite a number of younger children (mostly younger than 6)got relatively lower mark than older ones. My guess is they might have mis-placed one of their answers and that would lead to very low marks. I understand that the PEF staff had tried explaining the rules to the kids in the beginning of the test but I think for young kids it's very difficult to learn how to take exams in 5 minutes time.

ProfessionalIy I would not recommend anyone younger than 6 to take Raven's, despite the fact that the norm table starts from 5.5 years.

2.FYI, merely relying on Raven's to diagnose one is/is not dyselxia is impossible. Raven's, despite it's been widely used in HK Education Dept and has HK norm, is only a screening test. To decide whether a child has/has not reading difficulties, we need to use other tests.

3. If any of your child gets low mark on Raven's but is only 5-6, don't worry as that might only reflect their insufficient exam practice. By the time they promote to P.1/2, that will improve.

BTW, for those under 5.5 their results are not scorable as kids MUST reach that age in order to take Raven's. For Wechsler (韋氏), the minimum age is 5 years.

***
Do let me know if anyone out there have any questions.

I do want to write in Chinese but after accidentally deleting my own Chinese typing twice, which took me half an hour to do, I gave up.

Dr.T

Rank: 5 Rank: 5


	2324

10^#

發表於 04-9-1 23:03 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

但於同日參加一位小四的小朋友，他於校內成績數一數二，參加珠心算班要跳級，談話內容像大人，但分數卻只得87分，是否有甚麼出錯的地方?

It is possible. One explanation is there might be a huge gap between the child's verbal and non-verbal abilities. If s/he is tested with Wechlser, the kid's verbal scores in general will be much higher than his/her non-verbal scores as a whole. I have seen kid with 140+ verbal IQ but only around 90 for non-verbal IQ.

If this kid is educated in a traditional school with lots of talking and writing during the lessons, he should enjoy going to school very much. However, attending a school which uses exploratory learning will be hell to this boy/girl. S/he might hate drawing and take art & craft classes.

Again, that's why Raven's is only a screening test.

Rank: 2


	57

11^#

發表於 04-9-2 20:43 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

If you don't recommend those under 6 to do the test, could you not emphasize in the form that 3,000 5.5+ years old kids have taken the test?

faith

複式洋房

Rank: 3 Rank: 3


	366

12^#

發表於 04-9-2 22:40 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

Dr. T,
我一直有些問題，韋氏TEST準確嗎？我看到一些英文的GIFTED網頁或GROUP，指出best test 是STANFORD-binet form L-M，特別對於可能是HIGHLY GIFTED的孩子，因為其"ceiling point" 較高；又7歲是ideal believable age for definitive testing ;10is the last good age for hgc. 那麼香港的iqtest工具是否太狹窄呢？

各位，如果你們懷疑孩子天份很高又或是懷疑是資優，可以到以下網址和大家分享和交流意見心得，我們需要大家互相的支持呢﹕
http://hk.groups.yahoo.com/group/yourgiftedgroup/

「對弱者的同情往往變成對強者的仇恨，我們尤其要學會如何將這種愚蠢的傾向昇華。」 ---馬斯洛，<<人本心理學>>

Dr.T

Rank: 5 Rank: 5


	2324

13^#

發表於 04-9-2 23:49 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

網友S的質疑:
"If you don't recommend those under 6 to do the test, could you not emphasize in the form that 3,000 5.5+ years old kids have taken the test?"

From Dr.T:
We must admit that that's the fact (3000+ took HKSIC 1 & 2) and it's really up to parents' personal discretion to decide whether having their children tested or not.

But I will strongly consider recommending PEF to increase the lowest age to 6, despite the fact that Raven's can be used from 5.5.

Yet there're other considerations...the dilemma was not ALL 5.5 to 6 got bad result and it really depended on their exam readiness. Excluding them altogether will also be unfair to these group of kids.

As PEF will hold the future HKSIC in better venue (primary /secondary schools), then it might be possible to offer better exam support to younger kids. Baptist U is not a good place for them. Then the lack of exam skill problem might be solved.

I'd also suggest that for kids with low result possibly because of young age can be retested without further donation, but as I do not represent PEF, that's only my personal view.

Dr.T

Rank: 5 Rank: 5


	2324

14^#

發表於 04-9-3 00:00 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

網友faith的問題：
"我一直有些問題，韋氏TEST準確嗎？我看到一些英文的GIFTED網頁或GROUP，指出best test 是STANFORD-binet form L-M，特別對於可能是HIGHLY GIFTED的孩子，因為其"ceiling point" 較高；又7歲是ideal believable age for definitive testing ;10is the last good age for hgc. 那麼香港的iqtest工具是否太狹窄呢？

各位，如果你們懷疑孩子天份很高又或是懷疑是資優，可以到以下網址和大家分享和交流意見心得，我們需要大家互相的支持呢﹕
http://hk.groups.yahoo.com/group/yourgiftedgroup/"

From Dr.T:
I also heard people talking about this but I am not convinced that Stanford-Binet LM is a better choice.

The reason is Stanford-Binet (SB) LM edition does not have local norm and is a much older version of SB (SB is currently in it's 5th edition already and the LM version was developed in 1960!!! Yes the LM norm was updated but the last time they did it was in 1972!!!)

Professionally I suggest that LM version might be used as a supplment for suspected exceptionally gifted but never as the only test. Still Wechsler HK edition is the first choice for local Cantonese speaking kids, Raven's (HK norm) is the second as a screening instrument.

I found this article on the web by typing "Stanford Binet LM"which describes some of the basic facts-http://members.aol.com/discanner/binet.html

frodo

Rank: 2


	76

15^#

發表於 04-9-3 01:20 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

Dear Dr.T,

謝謝你詳細的回覆，請問以你專業意見認為 Raven Test 可信性是100% or 80% or 其他？？小兒5歲8个月得分是124 。

Dr.T

Rank: 5 Rank: 5


	2324

16^#

發表於 04-9-3 01:58 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

It's difficult to give you a number as it really depends on varies factors in individual cases. For example, whether or not the child is in a good mood on that day and whether s/he is easily distracted in a group setting. Exam readiness is also important.

Most cases (70-80%) I saw obtained more or less similar Raven's & Wechsler (non-verbal) scores, if they have taken both tests. But there're exceptionals, as the one mentioned in one of the previous message. Again, Raven's is only a screening test.

Even for Wechsler, which takes about an hour to complete individually, is not 100% accurate. 95% is our best bet.

In psychology (psychometric in particular), we use a measure called "validity" to decide whether a test is doing what it is supposed to do. For Raven's, the validity coefficients with other major IQ tests ranges from 0.5 to 0.8 (max is 1), which is quite high. Of course it assumes that other factors remain constant (e.g. mood, concentration, etc.)

nm2380

Rank: 2


	88

17^#

發表於 04-9-3 16:31 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

i think that still have a numer of parents misunderstood the score of the test,

some may be don't realize that the score got already been adjusted by the participient's age.

eg, 6 year-old child get scores 125 is better than
7 year-old child get scores 125.

actually they are the same, am i right?

Dr.T

Rank: 5 Rank: 5


	2324

18^#

發表於 04-9-3 21:45 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

nm2380 寫道:
i think that still have a numer of parents misunderstood the score of the test,

some may be don't realize that the score got already been adjusted by the participient's age.

eg, 6 year-old child get scores 125 is better than
7 year-old child get scores 125.

actually they are the same, am i right? :

Correct. In fact a 7-year-old has to answer more questions than a 6-year-old in order to get the same final score.

In Raven's, child is compared with kids within the same age range (breakdown into 3-month period). For example, a 5 years 10 months old child will be compared with average HK kids within the age range of 5 years 9 months to 5 years 11 months. For each year there are 4 age ranges (0-2months; 3-5months;6-8months & 9-11months).

小孩子的天空

別墅

Rank: 4


	572

19^#

發表於 04-9-3 23:06 |只看該作者

Re: 有冇人收到"明日棟樑"個Test Result? 可信嗎？

Dr.T:
My son took HK-WISC two month ago, I want ask you some question:

1.What is the meaning of "Coding"?(in Performance Scale)He only got 10 mark.

2.The result show that the different between verbal and Non-verbal are great, any problem will cause by this case?(As the same time he is also Deficit / Hyperactivity Disorder, Perdominantly Hyperactivity Impulsive Type)

Thank you so much for your help. I look forward to hearing your reply.

frodo