Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS? - 國際學校 - 教育王國

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教育王國 › 討論區 › 國際學校 › Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

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	87

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發表於 06-5-27 10:32 |只看該作者

Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

I can understand why kids need to know verbal Chinese (which ususally does not need to be learnt for most kids) but I just don't get why kid needs to know how to read and write and somehow these two skills enter as the factors of choosing international school?

Any comments?

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	12

2^#

發表於 06-5-27 11:21 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

For those families (and kids) who want to live and find jobs in Hong Kong when they grow up, it will be much much better if they can read and write Chinese. Many jobs in Hong Kong do require the applicants to know Chinese well.

Moreover, more and more people are expected to work in Mainland China, so knowing how to read and write Chinese will be a better advantage.

What are your thoughts?

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	278

3^#

發表於 06-5-28 10:49 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

Couple of reasons:

1.  Maintain the child's competitiveness (ie. in future job market) as already mentioned by another BK member.

2.  Respect for one's own national identity - Can you imagine a German kid brought up in Germany not able to read & write German? For the same matter, Japanese, French and English who are raised in their own country illiterate in their own langauge & culture?

While it is totally legitimate for overseas Chinese to miss out the better part of Chinese.  It is a shame for us Hongkongers not capitalise on the bi-lingual opportunity for our children.  It is a natural exposure afterall and takes relatively little effort for children to pick up the language at a young age.

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	372

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發表於 06-5-28 11:56 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

if Chinese is so important
go for a local school where the kids can learn both

it is free or much cheaper

if you have money

go for an independent private school,
do not choose IS

my 2 cents

Hong Kong International Schools Webmaster Tools

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	414

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發表於 06-5-28 12:35 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

And May I ask, why not, then?

We are Chinese and Hong Kong is a Chinese speaking city. Why should we not learn to read and write Chinese?

Going to an international school does not mean that the children have to give up Chinese.

A lot of foreigners like Indians, Japanese, Koreans, etc. in Hong Kong, are working so hard to let their children learn their own languages. With the environment and resources, I do not think learning to read and write Chinese is that difficult in Hong Kong.

Newton 寫道:
I can understand why kids need to know verbal Chinese (which ususally does not need to be learnt for most kids) but I just don't get why kid needs to know how to read and write and somehow these two skills enter as the factors of choosing international school?

Any comments?

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	1619

6^#

發表於 06-5-28 13:17 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

Both English and Chinese are important since they are the two languages that most of the people in the world can communicate with. To gain competitive advantage here in Hong Kong, a knowledge of both languages would be important.

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	278

7^#

發表於 06-5-28 17:58 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

First and foremost, a lot of us opt for an international education because we have little faith in HK's education system.  We are willing to pay a premium because we feel international schools can offer a more balanced education.  We like to give our children a chance to develop into a more rounded person with better thinking skills.  We want them to love learning and enjoy school life.  (I for one find it meaningless for any children to sit through their homework into wee hours in the morning.)

Equally important, international schools allow them to be exposed to other cultures.  It is absolutely invaluable, and in fact a privilege, for a child to gain a wider perspective of the world from a young age.

Luckily, international (or international-style) schooling and Chinese language is not mutually exclusive in HK. Of course, we have to live with the reality that the more serious the school gets with its Chinese education, the smaller the size of its international community.  It is a bit of a compromise for us parents who think Chinese is a neccessity. But, at least there is a choice out there to cater for people with different priorities.

Vrindavan 寫道:
if Chinese is so important
go for a local school where the kids can learn both

it is free or much cheaper

if you have money

go for an independent private school,
do not choose IS

my 2 cents

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	87

8^#

發表於 06-5-29 00:55 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

In response to all, here are my 2 cents.

1) Except government posts, I have never been asked if I know how to write and read Chinese during job interviews. Therefore I am not sure if knowing how to write and read Chinese will offer the competitiveness that many parents here may reckon.

2) National identity is the concept that I have lost a long time ago and do you think it may be too much to force a kid to learn Chinese for the very vague concept of national identity?

3) Learning Chinese does require tremendous efforts. As I said, verbal Chinese is quite easy to grab but writing and reading Chinese is much more difficult.

4) The majority of people in mainland China read and write in simplified Chinese. Then do you think your kid should learn simplifed Chinese or traditional Chinese? Unfortunately, I still think that many IS school do not really teach simplifed Chinese (except SIS may be) and Hong Kong people still have not decided to use simplified or traditional Chinese. In this case, how can you be sure that you do not waste kids' effort?

When I was a kid, I had no choice and was forced to learn Chinese from day one. I was so unhappy that I had to fill up the whole page of Chinese words (unlike English that you only have to know 26 letters and the rest of them are just combinations) on a daily basis and at the end I literally hate Chinese. Now by wasting 15 years of my childhood on learning Chinese, I never use a single Chinese words for the rest of my working life.

Now the questions I ask are:

1) How can people so sure that the potential competitiveness of knowing Chinese will be worth for a kid to spend (may be unwilling) 13 years on learning it. Do you think it will be a torture if your kid do not like it. All along, it is only our prediction that Chinese language will be increasingly important in the future. However, what if we are wrong? What if our kids at the end want to develop their career overseas? Actually the chance for your kid to pursue careers oversea is not small given that you have already chosen IS education for them, isn't it?

2) Is the vague concept of national identity so important that you will put your kid to learn the words which according to my own experience much more difficult to learn than English words.

3) I do not agree that it is a shame of not letting our kid learn Chinese. To me, I guess I will respect the learning desire of my kids much more than the vague concept of national identity. It does not mean that I will let my kids do whatever they want. In disciplinary area, there is still no negotiation. But in terms of what they want to learn, I am totally open. If they want to learn Chinese out of their own interest, although I doubt they will, I am totally open.


	2714

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發表於 06-5-29 02:13 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

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	414

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發表於 06-5-29 11:09 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

How I love the present Hong Kong. People can still express different views so openly!

I have totally different views and value different things.

Basically, I do not believe we should always be that practical. If my parents have been that practical, then I probably would have been asked to quit school at the age of 16. I am now a full time mom taking care of my children. First year Calculas and Computer Programing (who is using Fortran now?!) obviously is not a prerequisite for being a mom. Even my husband, I also do not see how knowing how waste water is treated would assist him in earning extra dough.

I never thought of learning Chinese as a practical thing. Do you know of any Japanese living in Japan (the point is "living in Japan", OK) who does not read or write Japanese? I am not talking about those illiterate but the educated generation. How about a German living in Germany who does not read or write German...... Just fill in the blank.

Ok, you want to be practical? Then, let us be. Forget about our being Chinese. Just consider Chinese language as a language. That will make knowing how to read and write Chinese an extra skill. In the era when everyone is talking about learning extra skills, why knowing how to read and write Chinese has no advantage?

And the thing is, we are Chinese. And we are living in a Chinese city. OK, if you are a 竹昇仔，there may not be resources for you to learn Chinese in say Istanbul. But we are in Hong Kong. A Chinese, raised in Hong Kong, but he does not know how to read or write Chinese? Everyone has been learning 2 languages since kindergarten in Hong Kong. Why did he just learn English? Was he that incompetent as a child? OK, he knows French. But there are a lot of people who know English, French AND Chinese! As a boss, why should I hire him, when there are probably a dozen others who can also read and write Chinese? When a dozen CVs are put before a boss and the applicants have similar backgrounds and education, I do think the one who does not know how to read and write Chinese is less competitive than those who do.

One last thing, I think there are things that should not be left for the child to choose. I agree with stccmc. Actually, for many children, Math is even a bigger nightmare than Chinese or English.

Newton 寫道:
In response to all, here are my 2 cents.

1) Except government posts, I have never been asked if I know how to write and read Chinese during job interviews. Therefore I am not sure if knowing how to write and read Chinese will offer the competitiveness that many parents here may reckon.

2) National identity is the concept that I have lost a long time ago and do you think it may be too much to force a kid to learn Chinese for the very vague concept of national identity?

3) Learning Chinese does require tremendous efforts. As I said, verbal Chinese is quite easy to grab but writing and reading Chinese is much more difficult.

4) The majority of people in mainland China read and write in simplified Chinese. Then do you think your kid should learn simplifed Chinese or traditional Chinese? Unfortunately, I still think that many IS school do not really teach simplifed Chinese (except SIS may be) and Hong Kong people still have not decided to use simplified or traditional Chinese. In this case, how can you be sure that you do not waste kids' effort?

When I was a kid, I had no choice and was forced to learn Chinese from day one. I was so unhappy that I had to fill up the whole page of Chinese words (unlike English that you only have to know 26 letters and the rest of them are just combinations) on a daily basis and at the end I literally hate Chinese. Now by wasting 15 years of my childhood on learning Chinese, I never use a single Chinese words for the rest of my working life.

Now the questions I ask are:

1) How can people so sure that the potential competitiveness of knowing Chinese will be worth for a kid to spend (may be unwilling) 13 years on learning it. Do you think it will be a torture if your kid do not like it. All along, it is only our prediction that Chinese language will be increasingly important in the future. However, what if we are wrong? What if our kids at the end want to develop their career overseas? Actually the chance for your kid to pursue careers oversea is not small given that you have already chosen IS education for them, isn't it?

2) Is the vague concept of national identity so important that you will put your kid to learn the words which according to my own experience much more difficult to learn than English words.

3) I do not agree that it is a shame of not letting our kid learn Chinese. To me, I guess I will respect the learning desire of my kids much more than the vague concept of national identity. It does not mean that I will let my kids do whatever they want. In disciplinary area, there is still no negotiation. But in terms of what they want to learn, I am totally open. If they want to learn Chinese out of their own interest, although I doubt they will, I am totally open.

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	4747

11^#

發表於 06-5-29 12:45 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

If we choose IS for our kids, we have to accept that high standard Chinese cannot be learnt from the school. If we think that reading and writing Chinese is necessary, then we have to supplement our kids' study with Chinese tutor classes. Learning Chinese is just very natural if you are Chinese, isn't it? Just don't understand why Newton asked the topic question?

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	319

12^#

發表於 06-5-29 14:11 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

Dear all,
I just think that it is a trend that International school has this so called Chinese lessons offer to IS kids.
Remember 10 years ago, all IS did not offer Chinese lessons.  Instead, they offered French or something else.  May be they did offer Chinese, but parents at that time really didn't have much expectations making their kids or forcing their kids to learn Chinese fluently.  My point is that the trend has changed and if one parent started to think that Chinese is so important, the other ones would eventually think the same because they didn't want to "jap shue".  10 years ago, kids who were placed in IS were expected to learn English only.  International schools were supposed to be like that.  I was one of those kids who switched to IS when I was 13.  If parents are concerned, I suggest that you put your kids in local school first, learn some Chinese, and then put your kids in IS when he/she reaches 12.  That way, he/she will gain more both.
My Chinese is very fluent and I can write and read and speak with no problem.  I just think that it is time for us to stop putting so much hope in IS teaching them fluent Chinese both written and spoken....it is just a little too much to expect.
I don't really agree on having advantages in speaking particularly Chinese...it all depends on what you expect your child in the future.  If your child has the ability to succeed...he/she doesn't really need to speak Chinese to get there.  Think about all the people around the world who speak only one language!  Bill gates doesn't speak Chinese...he only speaks English, or may be a little bit of Spanish (or may be he doesn't speak at all, I only say this because Spanish is the second language in the U.S.).  If your child has that little something to make it to the top, hire a translator instead!  Think about all the other foreigners in H.K. with very high salaries...they don't know Chinese...they are hired to work overseas because they have that little something...they are doing fine knowing only English or one language.
Lenglengma

Rank: 3 Rank: 3


	340

13^#

發表於 06-5-29 14:41 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

It is a good points of view from lenglengma. Since last year, I need to contact with professional body in Beijing. In our first correspondence, I was surprised that they contact me with using English. Till now, everytime they contact me with using English as well. One day, I switched on satellite TV to watch CCTV channel 9 that the unversity students in Beijing can speak very good English. It is becasue; this can help them to get a good job in China and then they have a chance to work in US, Canada or Europe.
I don't mean that Chinese is not important. However, I don't believe that our kids would have problem in communication with using Chinese if we still live in Hong Kong. But if you want to develop your kids to be Chinese writers, it may be a problem. To be honest, after I graduated from unversity for over 10 years, I don't need to use Chinese too much even we have much China trade.

lenglengma 寫道:
Dear all,
I just think that it is a trend that International school has this so called Chinese lessons offer to IS kids.
Remember 10 years ago, all IS did not offer Chinese lessons.  Instead, they offered French or something else.  May be they did offer Chinese, but parents at that time really didn't have much expectations making their kids or forcing their kids to learn Chinese fluently.  My point is that the trend has changed and if one parent started to think that Chinese is so important, the other ones would eventually think the same because they didn't want to "jap shue".  10 years ago, kids who were placed in IS were expected to learn English only.  International schools were supposed to be like that.  I was one of those kids who switched to IS when I was 13.  If parents are concerned, I suggest that you put your kids in local school first, learn some Chinese, and then put your kids in IS when he/she reaches 12.  That way, he/she will gain more both.
My Chinese is very fluent and I can write and read and speak with no problem.  I just think that it is time for us to stop putting so much hope in IS teaching them fluent Chinese both written and spoken....it is just a little too much to expect.
I don't really agree on having advantages in speaking particularly Chinese...it all depends on what you expect your child in the future.  If your child has the ability to succeed...he/she doesn't really need to speak Chinese to get there.  Think about all the people around the world who speak only one language!  Bill gates doesn't speak Chinese...he only speaks English, or may be a little bit of Spanish.  If your child has little something to make it to the top, hire a translator instead!  Think about all the other foreigners in H.K. with very high salaries...they don't know Chinese...they are hired to work overseas because they have that little something...they are doing fine knowing only English or one language.
Lenglengma

Rank: 3 Rank: 3

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	414

14^#

發表於 06-5-29 18:36 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

Are we discussing different situations?
We were talking about Chinese living in Hong Kong who cannot speak Chinese.

lenglengma 寫道:
Bill gates doesn't speak Chinese...he only speaks English

Think about all the other foreigners in H.K. with very high salaries...they don't know Chinese

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	319

15^#

發表於 06-5-29 19:08 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

I was just saying....Hong Kong is a bilingual city...
You don't need to speak fluent Chinese to survive in H.K. Think about all the foreigners in H.K. and China!
That was what I meant.

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	87

16^#

發表於 06-5-29 19:50 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

stccmc 寫道:
What if your child hated maths?
What if your child hated reading?
What if your child hated any form of sports/music?
What if your child hated going to school altogether?

Maybe you should tell me what you would do. Will you still force your kid to learn maths, to read and to play sports?

I did not mean that children are free to choose whatever they want to study. Certain subsjects are fundamentally basic to human knowledge and children should be given all the opportunity to explore (however, giving opportunity to explore still does not mean forcing them to learn.)

Chinese writing and reading is completely different story. In Hong Kong, you may be in serious disadvantage in many field if you are not good at numbers or not knowing how to read in any languages. However, not knowing Chinese writing and reading will not really put you in any disadvantage in HK since English is still an official language in both public and many private sectors.

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	319

17^#

發表於 06-5-29 19:59 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

Newton,
That was what I was talking about...
You got my point.
We just tend to expect too much out of our kids.
We expect that we pay $7000+ per month for IS, so that we want 110% out of it. I say 110% because the other 10% is from learning Chinese. Like I said before, Chinese were not stressed in IS ten years ago...and parents lived with it because it was understood that Chinese were not taught in IS (and it was indeed unusual for IS to teach Chinese at that time). parents nowadays want this, want that, and want all! If you really want your kids to be very fluent in Chinese...traditional, simplified or both....written and spoken....to be able to write an essay or even thesis in Chinese...then put them in local school with good English standard and enroll them in those English after school classes instead...
Moreover, we are talking about being able or not to survive in H.K. with only English...being Chinese or not is really not the issue here...It doesn't mean you have to be able to write fluent Chinese if you are a Chinese...people generally, Chinese, Caucasians, Black, Hispanic etc...can survive in H.K. with English only...
Some Chinese who don't speak Chinese have very deep Chinese roots or morals...
Lenglengma

Rank: 2


	87

18^#

發表於 06-5-29 20:13 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

Darth,

1) Practicality is secondary concern here. If children are inherently love learning Chinese writing, then by all means should let him learn. It is always good if kids want to learn something proactively, no matter it is another language or mathematics.

2) Hong Kong actually is different from most of the other countries. English is an official language and in many industries, Chinese is actually never used. In Japan (as well as German, France etc etc etc), one cannot survive long if he does not know Japanese since it is the only language used in Japan. In Hong Kong, you are surely fine if you do not know Chinese writing and reading.

3) Of course, learning extra skills is always good. But there are many other choices. Why it has to be Chinese writing and reading in an environment (meaning international school) where learning these things are deemed to be ineffective? It will be tough for both kids and parents. (like someone has already suggested putting sign her kid up for extra hours of private tutorship!)

Rank: 3 Rank: 3


	319

19^#

發表於 06-5-29 20:30 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

Newton,
I think what most parents want nowadays is that their kids are able to mingle or fit into the "chinese" community and also able to be "superior" than other local school students. Before, most of the IS students have oversea passports, so they sorta expected to work or live in oversea countries if they don't like it here in H.K. They had choices. However, more and more IS students nowadays do not have oversea passports, so they can only live and stay in H.K. Parents want to put their kids in IS to learn perfect English or to be different from local school students..however, they have no where to go afterwards, they are stucked in H.K. and have to worry about whether or not their kids will actually survive without knowing Chinese.
I personally think that knowing how to speak Chinese is good enough for IS students...indeed it is out of my expectation already...your kids can learn to speak fluent Chinese easily...you just have to speak to them in Chinese at home...but I also notice that parents nowadays just LOVE to talk to their kids in English at home and at the same time, expect their kids to LEARN Chinese at school...isn't it ironic? Parents not only want their kids to be able to speak fluent Cantonese, write Chinese (traditional too!) and read Chinese...they also want their kids to be able to speak Mandarin because now they have another new hope of their kids going to succeed in the big China! I think that is a little too much. Once IS offers Chinese lessons, they would expect that it would be traditional instead of simplified...in fact, they want Chinese lesson everyday! Well, in this case, I really do recommand that they study in those well-known local school instead of IS...like DBS, La Salle, Mary Knoll etc...instead.
Lenglengma

Rank: 2


	87

20^#

發表於 06-5-29 21:13 |只看該作者

Re: Why is Chinese so important when chosing IS?

This topic is raised because many parents seem put too much emphasis on Chinese languages when choosing IS and I would like to know the reasons why. So far, the reasons are basically:

1) because we are Chinese, so we have to know Chinese writing and reading no matter what.

2) because it is more effective to learn Chinese in Hong Kong.

3) because it is deemed to be useful for the future of the kids.

4) because it symbolizes national identity

5) because parents are deemed to choose several subjects for their kids and kids are suppose to learn several subject by default.

6) because Japanese knows how to write and read Japanese and therefore Chinese should know how to write and read Chinese.

Unfortunately, no one seems to care about their kids abilities, interests and feelings about learning an extra language in a rather unpleasant learning environment!

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