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教育王國 › 討論區 › 小學雜談 › 香港學生算係咁 lu !

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查看: 4500\|回覆: 24	go 香港學生算係咁 lu ! [複製鏈接]

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	1184

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發表於 06-3-6 22:14 |只看該作者

香港學生算係咁 lu !

--- from page 55, The Annual Report of the Council of Economic Advisers ( to the President of the United States of America ) [美國總統經濟顧問委員會年報 , 第 55 頁] ==>

http://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/erp06.pdf

Council of Economic Advisers was chaired by Ben Bernanke who is now the Chairman of the Federal Reserves. (寫此報告的 Ben Bernanke 現在做了聯邦儲備局主席.)


	2714

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發表於 06-3-6 22:50 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

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	1184

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發表於 06-3-6 23:33 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

本來我也是這樣想, 但香港和日本的中學畢業生又不似這樣不濟, 會忽然名落孫山. 有另一可能, 就是那個時段的香港中學畢業生, 並無參加這個國際評核試, 所以忽然變成沒有了名次.

就如同中國大陸的學生, 如果他們有參與這個數理評核, 相信必然高據榜首.
希望有教育界人仕可以解畫

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	11251

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發表於 06-3-7 11:05 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

是否細時操練多, 成績好; 大時要高等思為, 便追唔上?

張五常讀博士時，曾連續多年去旁聽一名師之一門基礎課。一天，那教授忍不住問他："我的課你聽到這麽多年，難道還聽不懂麽？” 五常答："你教的，我一早明了，我在這里，是想學你的思考方法，不是學你講之內容！"

在香港，好的一批都走到英中去，大部分教師，連表達都有問題，別說展示其思考之過程了。學生呢？能真正接受英話授課的，不到十分一。除了記下筆記外，還能做甚麽？结果，绝大部分都要到外面補習(補習先生，當然講中文啦)。幾年下來，到大學，還能思考乎？於是，高分的，當然選醫、法律、會計讀去。讀醫、讀法律、讀會計，中才得啦，讀Menu，實在不需要頂尖頭。低分的，讀數學、物理這些需高階次思绪之科目，畢業後，又培育英オ去了。

香港，先天既有優良之基因，IQ排在全球之前列，又有優越之地利，背靠中國，加上自由法冶。但現在，香港竟然淪落至不能靠實力取勝，政府層面，不断向大陸乞求利益，市民層面，父母不断要求子女學好英文，為求将來能做”港港”，可悲！！

Studies have also shown that higher test scores are associated with higher wages and more years of schooling. High school students with higher test scores are more likely to attend college and, if they attend, are more likely to graduate. Controlling for individuals’ educational attainment and family background, those who score higher on achievement tests in high school have higher wages later in life.

Higher schooling levels and test scores do not just improve individual outcomes, they also raise the standard of living for the country as a whole.

The United States has also conducted tests of its 9-, 13-, and 17-year-olds in math and reading going back to the early 1970s. These test results show that elementary school student scores have improved since the early 1970s, especially in math, but the math and reading scores of 17-year-olds are essentially unchanged. This discrepancy means that the United States has failed to translate test-score gains among younger students into higher scores among older students. There is little consensus as to why test scores have not improved more among older students, but understanding the mechanisms would be an important step in raising their educational achievement.

The mechanisms would be an important step in raising their educational achievement, 而higher test scores are associated with higher wages more years of schooling，足見一定之mechanisms是必須。高分，又怎會低能，高分，是努力之成果，任何地方也一樣。

Student achievement must be measured in a quantifiable way that is comparable across students and schools. This measurement is normally done through standardized tests, which are used to quantify school quality in order to identify low-performing schools. These tests allow parents to make meaningful comparisons between schools and make informed decisions about the schools in which to enroll their children.

不知教師看完此段有何感想呢？

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	19737

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發表於 06-3-7 11:49 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

stccmc 寫道:
15 歲時 HKG 和 JPN 仲數一數二, 一到 last year of secondary school (約 17 歲), HKG 和 JPN 便影都唔見, 何解呢? 是否細時操練多, 成績好; 大時要高等思為, 便追唔上?

stccmc,

The explanation is as follows:

"

oor U.S.A. performance occurred despite watering down the rigor of previous international tests, when we showed up so poorly, and defining the new as 'knowledge needed to function effectively in society'." Still, the results from the new test were the same, if not worse - - with US students continuing to score at or near the bottom, world-wide. As an example, even in general science sections 58% of Americans could not answer why spike heels might cause more floor damage than ordinary heels: (correct choice of several answers - more energy is concentrated in a smaller area). Only those American high school seniors who had previously taken Advanced Placement calculus and physics (college level courses) were able to even somewhat keep up with other international 12th grade students."

"As you view these charts note the absence of Asian students from Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore - - or even China. Students from those nations did participate in the prior international test series - - - scoring at the top of the total heap. But in the 3rd test series, they opted out - - partly because of the aforementioned watered-down criteria in the new series. "

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/new_96_report.htm

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	169

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發表於 06-3-7 12:24 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

15 歲時 HKG 和 JPN 仲數一數二, 一到 last year of secondary school (約 17 歲), HKG 和 JPN 便影都唔見, 何解呢? 是否細時操練多, 成績好; 大時要高等思為, 便追唔上?

????????? 吾.......信.

This is a report for U.S.A. The last column is mentioned the grade 12 result( as mentioned as the note) ...... What is the grade 12 of hk secondary ? form 5 or form 7? may be not applicated ..

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	727

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發表於 06-3-7 12:45 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

首先﹐想先說說英中學生會沒了思考能力的理論﹐是沒根據的。

其他關於排名的問題﹐遲些答你們

剛巧有人找我﹐要做野勒﹗

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	38

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發表於 06-3-7 17:49 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

Vernique:
等你的分析.

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	727

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發表於 06-3-7 21:23 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

其實這個表﹐是美國人寫來給自己人看的﹐所以沒需要誇大﹐看他們給美國的平分﹐都算很中肯﹐畢竟他們本來就比不上其他國家。

看日本和香港的排名﹐為何最後一年沒了﹖最簡單的原因就是到了最後﹐美國對自己數學教育的評價跟香港和日本的距離大了﹐拿來比較也沒意思。

在美國﹐他們對數學和科學的要求大概是這樣﹐一到十二年班算是用來當普及教育以應付社會需要﹐但香港就是到了中三就可以選讀少點數學。目前美國經濟體系需要的﹐是要工程系﹐開發研究部等等的人才﹐所以看它會用來比較的是歐洲國家﹐那些教數教得好的地方﹐你見英國由頭到尾都沒出現過就知啦﹗他們想看的﹐是入了大學後的美國人﹐跟入了大學的歐洲人及其他英語為主國家的差別有多少。

而香港﹐到中三﹐即十五歲﹐就分文科理科來讀﹐基本來說﹐即是說我們現有的教育局覺得我們中三的數已經夠應付社會需要﹐十五歲之後怎樣呢﹖其實坦白說﹐香港對培訓數學或科學人才﹐又真的是沒這麼用心﹐因為我們花了很多時間去玩教改﹐玩語言培訓。。。。。。

香港人數學不厲害嗎﹖其實我覺得一半半﹐如果說速度﹐香港日本一定比表上的快﹐但論轉數或培養興趣﹐我們做得真的頗失敗。

最值得看的﹐其實是SWEDEN NORWAY 這些國家﹐他們從頭到尾都榜上有名﹐仲有越來越好的氣勢﹐其實他們對數學教育的方針﹐可以說是和我們香港日本背道而馳﹐我聽說過﹐東歐教數﹐是加減乘除正負數一次過教﹐教時當然會比香港日本慢﹐但他們會花多些時間學概念﹐而同一時間﹐當孩子數底沒夠是﹐會學很多幾何題目﹐當是玩﹐到了克服了最簡單的概念後﹐他們上去ABSTRACT 的數教得很快﹐很好﹐有些比較有天份的﹐真的可以十歲就學完微積分﹐四年班學ABSTRACT ALGEBRA。。。。

聽起來好像很可怕﹐但我拿過這個問題去問一個在香港教數﹐有數學教育MASTER 的前輩這問題﹐他說其實是安排課程的ORDERING的問題。他們預計的﹐是學生可以讀完中學後順利地在大學主修數學﹐甚至研究數學時都有良好的基礎。

吾知呢﹖我自己再香港接受最早期的數學教育﹐覺得歐洲那邊的教法都幾難接受﹐畢竟他們一開始的方針是覺得每個學生都讀得上去才這樣教﹐甘吾知我呢類數學白痴﹐去歐洲有沒發展呢﹖

但我這數學白痴的數學天才朋友﹐聽完後﹐說有點恨自己不是歐洲人的感覺﹐說說麼就是因為他小時候學錯了方法﹐知道自己讀不上最好的數學﹐永遠都跟其他歐洲天才有距離窩。。。。

我想到最後﹐數學和科學都是需要激發起孩子好奇心﹐興趣和耐力的科目﹐無論怎說﹐香港還是沒做得很好﹐我們努力罷﹗

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	1184

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發表於 06-3-7 22:13 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

Thank you all for your insightful comments !

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	4775

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發表於 06-3-8 00:26 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

Vernique2005,

1.基本數學概念其實不難, 全世界的數學教科書應也相差不遠.
2. 事實上, 香港中小大學生的數學基礎領前很多, 只是數學頂尖兒都不願意去讀數學degree(除了 Actuary).


	2714

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發表於 06-3-8 03:46 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

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	4747

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發表於 06-3-8 08:11 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

youma 寫道:
Vernique2005,

1.基本數學概念其實不難, 全世界的數學教科書應也相差不遠.
2. 事實上, 香港中小大學生的數學基礎領前很多, 只是數學頂尖兒都不願意去讀數學degree(除了 Actuary).

But I think the difference between HK and other places is the development of interest in Maths and Science. In HK, most students learn calculations, fast and accurate, but will not study too much the relationship and concepts more in details, which is the most interesting part. I realize this only after my daughter changes to study in IS. They learn different Maths topics together instead of one by one, which seems to be more complicated and will learn slower, but it is much more interesting.

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	727

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發表於 06-3-8 12:48 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

youma 寫道:
Vernique2005,

1.基本數學概念其實不難, 全世界的數學教科書應也相差不遠.
2. 事實上, 香港中小大學生的數學基礎領前很多, 只是數學頂尖兒都不願意去讀數學degree(除了 Actuary).

真係可以差很遠的﹐和我們差最遠的是德國跟波蘭﹐有機會可以看看。

我想在香港讀數學DEGREE的還不算少﹐但肯研究上去的就很微了。為什麼香港孩子不願意讀數學呢﹖我想最大的問題是風氣﹐其次是大家都認識沒錢途。。。。。(我沒寫錯字)。

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	727

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發表於 06-3-8 12:58 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

stccmc 寫道:

的確有這問題。一般香港學生選科不管興趣, 只管錢途, 這樣實際的風氣是如何做成的? 是否香港的 DNA?

我有點覺得是環境逼成的﹐其實讀數﹐可以很很很有前途或錢途﹐WHICHEVER WAY YOU WANT TO VIEW IT﹐ 但地點絕對不是香港。。。。

其實我都算身受其害﹐因為我先生做R&D﹐香港沒什麼發展﹐眼見香港的工作都是無無聊聊﹐實在沒辦法吾離開

我喜歡香港的食物﹐喜歡香港的衣服﹐但最多三年就要走了。。。

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	727

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發表於 06-3-8 13:00 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

WYmom 寫道:

But I think the difference between HK and other places is the development of interest in Maths and Science. In HK, most students learn calculations, fast and accurate, but will not study too much the relationship and concepts more in details, which is the most interesting part. I realize this only after my daughter changes to study in IS. They learn different Maths topics together instead of one by one, which seems to be more complicated and will learn slower, but it is much more interesting.

Your child is indeed in a good school. Take advantage of it!

Never mind the speed at such an early stage; you'll see her excel in years to come!

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	1131

17^#

發表於 06-3-8 15:03 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

我喜歡香港的食物﹐喜歡香港的衣服﹐但最多三年就要走了。。。

[/quote]

Feel bad to hear that !

I'm rely on you !!!

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	53

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發表於 06-3-9 10:16 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

me three......what a pity to hear about that.....I always like to read about what you write about HK educational system although I'm a silent reader

寵辱不驚,看庭前花開花落; 去留無意,望天上雲捲雲舒.

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	4747

19^#

發表於 06-3-9 10:23 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

Vernique2005 寫道:
[quote]
stccmc 寫道:

的確有這問題。一般香港學生選科不管興趣, 只管錢途, 這樣實際的風氣是如何做成的? 是否香港的 DNA?

我有點覺得是環境逼成的﹐其實讀數﹐可以很很很有前途或錢途﹐WHICHEVER WAY YOU WANT TO VIEW IT﹐ 但地點絕對不是香港。。。。

其實我都算身受其害﹐因為我先生做R&D﹐香港沒什麼發展﹐眼見香港的工作都是無無聊聊﹐實在沒辦法吾離開

我喜歡香港的食物﹐喜歡香港的衣服﹐但最多三年就要走了。。。

[/quote]

Vernique2005,

Are you working in the educational field now? Hope you can stay behind and do something more to help all students here with your valuable experience. Education work is definitely not 無無聊聊, it is very meaningful.

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	3308

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發表於 06-3-10 08:41 |只看該作者

Re: 香港學生算係咁 lu !

Hi Vernique

Not sure if you still remember me (the one with a kid who studied P1 last year).

It's really sad to know that you'll leave HK. Same as others, I like to read all your meaningful articles in BK. Your point of view and sharing is very useful and it really help me a lot.

To share with you a good news, my kid keep up very good progress though I am still finding way to boost up her interest in studying.

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