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教育王國 › 討論區 › 初中教育 › 母語教學　打沉理科
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母語教學　打沉理科 [複製鏈接]

BillyM

Rank: 5Rank: 5


2444
21#
發表於 05-8-12 01:53 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

uncleedward 寫道:
With more students switching to English Syllabus A, it is definitely unconvincing to argue Chinese secondary school graduates’ English standard has improved, even with a better passing rate in English this year. However, I have never been under the impression that the authorities argued that Mother-tongue teaching would improve the English standard of the students.

Despite all the bad things we said about the government and the EMB, it is difficult to argue against the statement that Mother-tongue teaching per se contributes to a better understanding of most other subjects for most students. If we look at the statistics shown in the following web page, the EMB might have a point that the Chinese secondary schools’ graduates this year are doing better than before. And for such a large population, these percentages are definitely statistically significant.

http://life.mingpao.com/htm/2005hkcee/cfm/content.cfm?Path=news2/news016.htm


同意，我相信當局實施母語教學時，已知道英文會跌，但希望藉母語提高其他成績。現在整個輿論都似乎是用英文成績來評定母語教學的成敗，似乎有欠公允。我覺得現在的問題是，家長以至社會能否接受用英文的退步來換取其他科的進步？

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大媽

Rank: 4


633
22#
發表於 05-8-12 02:18 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

因為香港始終係國際化城市麻...要面向全世界競爭，所以真係唔可以用英文退步換取其它科既進步架.....咁對將來對外貿易有好大影响......由其是美國等出口國家....冇左英文等於半殘廢架啦....仲有國際金融交易都係要用英文架.....     

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ChiChiPaPa

Rank: 8Rank: 8


19742
23#
發表於 05-8-12 06:52 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

有沒有看到一個有趣的現象?

在母語教學下，低能力考生，除主科外，其它科目的合格率都基本上是下跌的。

在英語教學下，這情況就相反，高能力考生就在理科的合格率中下跌。

這原因是和一刀切的母語教學政策有關。

-----------------------------------------------------------

而地理科，05年考的是新課程。中中在地理科成績的增長說明了老師在母語環境下比較容易適應課程的轉變。而由於課程轉變了，05年的成績是不是可以直接和02年比較，大家可以想一想。

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uncleedward


359
24#
發表於 05-8-13 00:20 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

I am afraid that it is true that the English standard is falling in Hong Kong. I am afraid that the Mother-tongue teaching policy will also stay, like it or not. Then it is only up to us to do something about our children’s English.

As someone graduating from a Chinese secondary school decades ago and someone who has not had the privilege of attending any formal English classes since leaving school, I can vouch the statement that you do not need to be an EMI school graduate to have a decent grasp of English.

While I am chatting to you guys on the internet killing time, I am actually accompanying my young daughter (who has finished P6) reading “Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator”, i.e. the sequel to Roald Dahl’s “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory”. She finished the latter two days ago because I told her I would only bring her to see the movie when she finishes the book. But after she finished the “Chocolate Factory” she was then naturally attracted to its sequel.

It is our own responsibility to educate our children. Don’t depend too much on the government or the schools. There are ways to improve our children’s English. To start with, try reducing the time spent on this website (especially for 大媽) and try spending the time with your kids reading storybooks together. If you kid can really finish a book each week, will you be still concerned that his or her English is bad? Equally, if you can persuade you kid to finish all the 金庸’s or 余秋雨’s or 董橋’s books, will you still be concerned that his or her Chinese is bad? You must be kidding! Then as a parent, we should try our best to find a way to introduce these books to them.
[168924_10150131508915141_661800140_8106193_6104073_n]

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KWT

Rank: 5Rank: 5


1414
25#
發表於 05-8-13 22:55 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

其實英文水準下降是否表示中文水準提升呢?中文又指甚麼中文呢?北京話?粵語?普通話?好!粗略同意算是普通話.看看身邊又有多少人能說流利及應用普通話?外國人很多不懂中國文字,但甚多人能說流利的普通話,可以與中國人交談.若然現今制度,得一失一,情況差但不會太壞,若雙失(中英雙語)真要靠人才回流救救香港.

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uncleedward


359
26#
發表於 05-8-13 23:43 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

Dear 77777

If your kid is only six years old and is already reading many of Roald Dahl’s books, I see no reason why you should feel worried about his English. If he can guess what the stories are about, his English is already better than many P6 students in Hong Kong.

Schools are important. Otherwise I would have sent my daughters to Pui Ching as suggested by ChiChiPaPa. I will always be indebted to my S5 English teacher, Mrs Chan, who has taught me most of the English I am using now. Every now and then, I still have in my dreams the image of an old lady, in a “Cheung Sham”, wearing gold-rimmed glasses, holding my elbow and hand, telling me not to be too naughty and work harder as if she was my grandma.

Back to today’s English teaching at schools, personally I am not too concerned whether the textbooks have become easier or not. It is the English environment which matters. For the good schools in Hong Kong, I am sure the students learn more English outside English classes, rather than inside, as always. Talking about pressure of school work preventing children from reading more books, sorry, I have still to see a real life example for myself. You will find that the students who read more after schools happen to be the students at the elite schools where I am not sure their school work pressure will be too much less than at other schools.

Maybe we can gain some comfort from what a friend of mine has kept assuring me. He has been teaching Englsih at HKU for years and he said that the general standard of English may be falling, but the standard of the best students is still similar to that in the good old days.



[168924_10150131508915141_661800140_8106193_6104073_n]

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大媽

Rank: 4


633
27#
發表於 05-8-14 00:11 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

唉.....有陣時諗落對某d被一刀切既中中有d唔公平架...俗語話：`萬丈高樓從地起`....睇下而家d小學英文老師既質素先啦....小學都未搞得掂，上到英文中學點追呢？以我阿仔為例，佢讀左两間同一個辨學機構既小學，而两間小學教英文既模式都係一樣，即係老師只懂揸住本書教，做exercise改簿就用model answer...`死咕咕`咁...，一至六年級都未教過作文..甚至乎grammer都少教，五六年級買左本grammer都係得過`做`字，只係今年有小三小六評核就`臨急抱佛腳`教作文同BCA，仲要佢地背tim...，小學老師咁既教學質素，中學既老師點跟呀？所以大家話將英文水準低既責任推落以前被一刀切既中中身上，又是否公平冇？
KWT 寫道:
其實英文水準下降是否表示中文水準提升呢?中文又指甚麼中文呢?北京話?粵語?普通話?好!粗略同意算是普通話.看看身邊又有多少人能說流利及應用普通話?外國人很多不懂中國文字,但甚多人能說流利的普通話,可以與中國人交談.若然現今制度,得一失一,情況差但不會太壞,若雙失(中英雙語)真要靠人才回流救救香港.

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WYmom

Rank: 5Rank: 5


4747
28#
發表於 05-8-14 06:46 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

uncleedward,

So which EMI school is your kid studying in? Are you referring to primary or secondary EMI?

Though standard of English in most EMI schools are higher than CMI, I'm not sure if these local EMI schools teach by traditional approach or international school approach.  Besides, some so called English primary schools in fact teach most subjects in Chinese.  How about your kid's school?  Can you share? Thanks.

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fannychoi

Rank: 3Rank: 3


343
29#
發表於 05-8-14 06:53 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

[quote]
大媽 寫道:
唉.....有陣時諗落對某d被一刀切既中中有d唔公平架...俗語話：`萬丈高樓從地起`....睇下而家d小學英文老師既質素先啦....小學都未搞得掂，上到英文中學點追呢？以我阿仔為例，佢讀左两間同一個辨學機構既小學，而两間小學教英文既模式都係一樣，即係老師只懂揸住本書教，做exercise改簿就用model answer...`死咕咕`咁...，一至六年級都未教過作文..甚至乎grammer都少教，五六年級買左本grammer都係得過`做`字，只係今年有小三小六評核就`臨急抱佛腳`教作文同BCA，仲要佢地背tim...，小學老師咁既教學質素，中學既老師點跟呀？所以大家話將英文水準低既責任推落以前被一刀切既中中身上，又是否公平冇？ [quote]
我懷疑小學老師仍舊用以前果套係因為不能說出流利的英文所致....
我記得我以前的老師在教英文時都只會對住本書讀英文, 但好少見佢地不用書本就講出好多英文出黎.

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WYmom

Rank: 5Rank: 5


4747
30#
發表於 05-8-14 08:21 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

77777,

I don't think text books are very important, I believe more in the teaching approach.  Learning English is different from Chinese.  Reading is more important than relying on text books.  My kids learn good English not through text books, but more through reading (with help from parents when they are small until 6 to 7 years old). It is really another non-ending discussion regarding teaching approach.  

In short, I don't buy the traditional duck feeding approach in teaching, which in fact is still used in many EMI schools.  So I would like to ask for uncleedward's kid's experience.

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WYmom

Rank: 5Rank: 5


4747
31#
發表於 05-8-14 10:55 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

77777,

Umm... cannot agree completely, what you mention is the approach of local schools, maybe you can check out how international schools teach English before you worry so much.

Anyway, nice chating with you.

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大媽

Rank: 4


633
32#
發表於 05-8-14 16:41 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

有冇人知道國際校出來的會考成績好唔好架？照我所知佢地教英文確實一流架....謝解答[quote]
WYmom 寫道:
77777,

Umm... cannot agree completely, what you mention is the approach of local schools, maybe you can check out how international schools teach English before you worry so much.

Anyway, nice chating with you.

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goat

Rank: 5Rank: 5


2280
33#
發表於 05-8-14 18:52 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

國際學校既學生要考會考? 佢地唔係根據辦學團體來自既國家既教育制度架咩? 不過話時話, 薜海琪都好似有考a-level

大媽 寫道:
有冇人知道國際校出來的會考成績好唔好架？照我所知佢地教英文確實一流架....謝解答[quote]


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WYmom

Rank: 5Rank: 5


4747
34#
發表於 05-8-14 23:49 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

77777,

I know a bit about IS only, e.g. they won't pick the grammar or spelling mistakes of students' writing, just encourage them to write more and more since P.1, and always praise them.  They do a lot of "show and tell", present different things with confidence in English, work on projects and write reports, do a lot of readings, etc.  They speak naturally in English and gradually they will learn to use the right grammar when they grow.  The key is encourage and develop their interest in learning rather than picking out their mistakes.  As I see, it is very natural that kids won't like reading text books, as text books are very boring, but they enjoy reading story books, Science, Geography, adventure,  etc.  

IS students normally won't take HKCEE, they take IB or GCE exams.  That's my limited understanding, just to share.  If you want to know more, maybe you can take a look at the discussion threads in the international school session and ask more experienced parents.

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Vernique2005

Rank: 4


727
35#
發表於 05-8-16 07:31 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

[IS students] do a lot of "show and tell", present different things with confidence in English, work on projects and write reports, do a lot of readings, etc.  They speak naturally in English and gradually they will learn to use the right grammar when they grow.


Sorry that I cannot agree with this approach.  This 'minimal correction' approach was used in US/Canada in the last generation, and it turned out to be a complete failure......(We had a huge reform in Canada several years ago, forcing all new teachers to receive grammar/writing training before they go out and teach)

If you do something incorrectly, you won't "naturally" understand that it's wrong. In addition, this approach highly assumes that the children's parents as well as the people around them are HIGHLY educated, which is rather discriminative.

"I ain't wrong"
"I didn't do nothing"
"They are different than us..."

These sentences are not standard English, but you'd hear them very often if you go to some poorer regions in the US.  If you send your children there and let them learn the language naturally, they'd easily be considered as the less privileged group in society because the language they use is non-standard English.....(Unfortunately, this may prevent them from entering good universities.  The ugly side of grammar is that a person's proficiency in grammar often dictates that person's social background.....)

Similarly, even though the IS in HK are occupied by relatively affluent families, SE (Standard English) still does not exist because 90% of the students use English as a second language.  If students were to use "English" freely without being corrected, then they will end up producing English that is not idiomatic. In this case, the students write/speak English, yet foreigners won't understand what they are talking about.

Some sentences that IS students give me include:
I HAVE interests in this book. (should be "I AM")
Although it's raining outside, but I still want to go out.
(should use either "although" or "but", never use both)

The list of such sentences is almost endless.......

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WYmom

Rank: 5Rank: 5


4747
36#
發表於 05-8-16 08:24 |只看該作者

Re: 母語教學　打沉理科

Vernique2005,

Thanks for your comment.  I think the situation in HK is different from Canada as in HK most kids are studying English as second language.  I appreciate more the way used by IS vs local after seeing my kids studying in both type of schools.  They obviously have higher intiative and interest to learn under IS' encouraging approach.  Local school uses more the "model answer" and correctional approach, which gradually causes the kids to learn memorizing model answers instead of thinking more. That's my experience only.  Maybe it has different effect on different kids.  This is really another endless discussion.  Sorry to deviate from the topic.

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Vernique2005

Rank: 4


727
37#
發表於 05-8-16 10:52 |只看該作者

Re: 母y教學　打沉理科

Hi!

I had already taken into account that HK kids study English as a L2 when I gave my last comment. I have TESOL training, too, by the way.

I guess I'd also prefer IS to local school if I had to send a child to school in HK.  In my opinion, confidence and analytical skills are the two critical  issues that many local schools fail to nurture their students because of the "model answer" approach.

My last comment is more against the "minimal correction" policy of some IS, but not against IS as a whole.  As you have said, HK students in IS all use English as a second language, which would make the "minimal correction policy" very bad.  

I do agree that students should learn out of their own initiatives and interests.  Yet the unfortunate fact is that every student will face something that he/she dislikes one day.  I love Eng. Lit, so I choose it as my area of research.  However, there were still times that I did not like the books/literary criticism that I read.  In this case, I had to "endure" the "boring" materials! hahahahhah! Perhaps, it's also not a bad idea for students to confront something that they dislike occasionally so that they'll be able to withstand the subjects that they're not so interested in as they advance to higher grades.  I've taught some brilliant IS students who simply gave up when they felt that they disliked the materials.  This highly worried their parents.  It's also in light of my students' experience that I found it necessary to voice out the advantages and disadvantages of IS. After all, there's no such thing as a "perfect" educational system on earth....

I am thinking that your girl's school is very good, so you have much less worries than many other parents.  

Again, I think I am also digressing from the topic.  Sorry!     

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