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教育王國 › 討論區 › 國際學校 › struggling--IS or local stream?
樓主: epsonprinter
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struggling--IS or local stream? [複製鏈接]

FattyDaddy

Rank: 6Rank: 6


9572
21#
發表於 13-10-6 14:14 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 13-10-6 14:25 編輯
21Ckid 發表於 13-10-6 12:58
LS is the "mainstream" eduaction path for local chinese, and if you are in doubt and you don't know  ...

I fully agree that if in doubt opting for local schools is the safer choice, especially for local families who have no plans to leave Hongkong.

Local schooling is the mainstream all over the world, and mainstream education is shaped by society. Local schools in Hongkong are the way they are not by chance but because the majority of Hongkongers, rightly or wrongly, wanted them to be that way. Opting out of the mainstream means non-conformance, and in East Asian societies non-conformance could be costly.

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shadeslayer

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32340
22#
發表於 13-10-6 19:32 |只看該作者

引用：+本帖最後由+FattyDaddy+於+13-10-6+14:25+

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 13-10-06 發表
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 13-10-6 14:25 編輯
Local schools in Hongkong are the way they are not by chance but because the majority of Hongkongers, rightly or wrongly, wanted them to be that way.

Zzzxxxx

Not sure about this. HK parents never have much say in how the schools and curriculum are developed. The DSS gives parents certain alternative choices in the last twenty years but that is about it.  Seeing the rise of many DSS schools with non traditional teaching and curriculum, what the parents like is very clear.



The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

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FattyDaddy

Rank: 6Rank: 6


9572
23#
發表於 13-10-7 00:43 |只看該作者
shadeslayer 發表於 13-10-6 19:32
Seeing the rise of many DSS schools with non traditional teaching and curriculum, what the parents like is very clear. ...
Old traditions die hard, some DSS schools may appear non-traditional and experiment with new style teaching, but at the end of the day the majority of their students will still sit and be measured by local exams which are model answer based, and because of this these schools have no choice but to stick to traditional rote learning in the advanced years.

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shadeslayer

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32340
24#
發表於 13-10-7 09:25 |只看該作者

引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+13-10-6+19:32+S

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 13-10-07 發表
Old traditions die hard, some DSS schools may appear non-traditional and experiment with new style t ...
Many DSS and private schools run non local curriculum like IB, eg LPCUWC, SPCC, DBS, Logos, Creative, VSA. Others like HKUGA run DSE but are known to teach very differently from local schools. Judging by the number of applications to these schools each year and you are kidding yourself if you say these are not among the most popular schools.

Anyway, my point was HK people never really influenced the education system. How could they?  Both in colonial times or after 97. Just because 95% of HK people take buses does not mean they prefer taking buses and think they are the best mode of transportation.   Just because 95% of students study in local schools does not mean they prefer traditional local schools and think they are the best education for their children.

Making the link between the local schools and what HK parents want is an assumption made on shaky grounds.



The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

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21Ckid

Rank: 5Rank: 5


1987
25#
發表於 13-10-7 11:56 |只看該作者
I don't think we are talking about parents' preference for the type of schools. I don't know about fattydaddy, but for me, i was saying the most fool-proof approach is not to take the unconventional way in particular if you really don't know what it is all about.

In fact, the number of applications for schools like DGS DBS SPCC YW etc explains people's preferences (rightly or wrongly). And even among non-LS, those that has a strongly LS element like ISF are getting extremely popular. Also, while many people here are unwilling to believe, many parents who can afford IS choose LS because they believe IS are for the under performers.

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FattyDaddy  My point also  發表於 13-10-7 13:14

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FattyDaddy

Rank: 6Rank: 6


9572
26#
發表於 13-10-7 12:41 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 13-10-8 02:52 編輯
shadeslayer 發表於 13-10-7 09:25
you are kidding yourself if you say these are not among the most popular schools.  ...

That was not my point. I did not say these "new style" DSS schools are not popular, in fact schools like SPCC and DBS have always been popular, long before IB, long before this talk of "new style teaching".

I was saying DSS schools, new style or otherwise, MUST put the majority of their students through local exams (it is a condition of receiving DSS funding), and local exams are based on model answers, so these schools will end up teaching model answers in order to achieve good exam results, no matter how fancy their teaching style may appear to be in the early grades.

As to whether Hongkongers had an influence in local education, let reality speak for itself. How did rote learning and model answer based exams come about? Introduced by the Brits? No, in fact they go back centuries to 科舉 and 八股文. If Hongkongers never had any influence or say, then Hongkong education would have been like that in Britain, but it was not.

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caa

Rank: 6Rank: 6


5822
27#
發表於 13-10-7 14:09 |只看該作者
FattyDaddy 發表於 13-10-7 12:41
That was not my point. I did not say these "new style" DSS schools are not popular, in fact schools ...
"As to whether Hongkongers had an influence in local education, let reality speaks for itself. How did rote learning and model answer based exams came about? Introduced by the Brtis? No, in fact they go back centuries to 科舉 and 八股文. If Hongkongers never had any influence or say, then Hongkong schools would have been like those in Britain, but they were not...."

I don't agree that HK's existing education system and situation after 1997 is in any way driven by parents. It is attributable to a few government officers (policy makers) who lack the vision, ability, courage and integrity. They lack vision, ability and courage as what they have done is just to copy. The HKDSE is a wanabee IB program where they only copied the hardware (choice of subjects - requirement to study both humanities and science) but not software (lack of teaching methodology and training of teachers). They lack integrity as they push forward policies they actually don't believe in by sending their own children to overseas or international schools.

點評

FattyDaddy  True, after 1997 the Hongkong general public have less say in education policies, not more.  發表於 13-10-7 15:38

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shadeslayer

Rank: 11Rank: 11Rank: 11Rank: 11


32340
28#
發表於 13-10-7 20:53 |只看該作者
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 13-10-7 21:03 編輯
FattyDaddy 發表於 13-10-7 12:41
That was not my point. I did not say these "new style" DSS schools are not popular, in fact schools ...

If Hongkongers never had any influence or say, then Hongkong education would have been like that in Britain, but it was not.

xxxxx


That is a again a bold assumption that British, given a chance, would implement what they use back home in HK.

Ask around, how many of you or your local friends had any input to the DSE curriculum?  How many of you or your local friends did not agree to removing Chinese History as a compulsory subject.  How many of you or your local friends had any input to the way liberal studies is taught or exam'ed?

I am saying HK parents under british or chinese administration never really took part in shaping the HK education system.  If you think otherwise, can you give examples how HK parents influenced the education system pre- or post- handover?
The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

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shadeslayer

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32340
29#
發表於 13-10-7 20:58 |只看該作者
21Ckid 發表於 13-10-7 11:56
I don't think we are talking about parents' preference for the type of schools. I don't know about f ...
21CKid,
I agree with what you said.  I just don't agree that HK parents have been key in shaping the education system in HK, or that the local schools are what HK parents today ask for.  See the influx of local families in IS in recent years?  See the frustration of the local schools from parents in EK?  These are signs of discontent from HK parents.
The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

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FattyDaddy

Rank: 6Rank: 6


9572
30#
發表於 13-10-7 21:44 |只看該作者
shadeslayer 發表於 13-10-7 20:53
Ask around, how many of you or your local friends had any input to the DSE curriculum?  How many of you or your local friends did not agree to removing Chinese History as a compulsory subject....
Again, we have drifted far enough from the original topic, so I'm going to end with this post.

I was not talking about relatively trivial things like what subjects are or are not compulsory in which curriculum, but an education system built on rote learning and model answer based exams that had been in use in Hongkong for decades if not a century. How did it come about, if not from Chinese Hongkonger's own cultural roots in 科舉 and 八股文.

If you have a theory that Hongkongers never had any influence and this system just happened by chance, or was forced upon Hongkongers by the Brits, then feel free to start a new thread to tell us your theory {:1_1:}

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shadeslayer

Rank: 11Rank: 11Rank: 11Rank: 11


32340
31#
發表於 13-10-7 23:00 |只看該作者
FattyDaddy 發表於 13-10-7 21:44
Again, we have drifted far enough from the original topic, so I'm going to end with this post.

I wa ...
科舉 and 八股文 were ancient and the society has moved on.  Parents needs have moved on.  科舉 and 八股文 do not prove that HK parents have, in the last 150 years (say), any influence in today's mainstream education system.  

You are right, we are repeating ourselves.

點評

FattyDaddy  科舉 and 八股文 lasted until 1905, not that ancient is it {:1_1:}  發表於 13-10-8 02:21
The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

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