- 在線時間
- 423 小時
- 最後登錄
- 22-12-30
- 國民生產力
- 0
- 附加生產力
- 2757
- 貢獻生產力
- 0
- 註冊時間
- 09-10-14
- 閱讀權限
- 10
- 帖子
- 441
- 主題
- 2
- 精華
- 0
- 積分
- 3198
- UID
- 550146
|
回復 37# wicked 的帖子
Wicked,
Yes, my job requires me doing most of the things on a scientific basis. I agree that we do most things based on intuition in everyday life. However, when it comes to your posts, you are using seemingly scientific arguments to support your proposal of replacing Cantonese with PTH and it seems that there is obvious bias in your intuition. I also think this is a big issue and very controversial subject (both PTH is superior to Cantonese and Cantonese people is less “evolved” and less intelligent), therefore I think the standard should be set a bit higher. I think I have been deeply influenced by my university teachers that they will ask for scientific reference if someone says something they didn’t understand, didn’t heard of or didn’t agree. I think this is a right thing to do, since a very meaningful discussion can be started if there is really a scientific basis, or to stop someone boasting around if otherwise.
Policymaking is a big deal to all the people in the society. I think you won’t like the policy makers to do things just on intuition without any scientific basis. Right?
Can you give an example that a modern human race (Homo sapiens sapiens) is eradicated by gene dilution alone in human history? I don’t quite understand what you say. Even if a race is eradicated by natural selection alone without any human intervention (e.g. a race may be eradicated by a particular disease if they all lack genes for immunity to it.), I don’t think that there is any problem although it is a tragedy. Yes, genocide still happens in some part of Africa. Basically different races are fighting for the complete control of the resources (land, wealth, food and water). Can you tell me the relevance with the current discussion about adopting PTH in Hong Kong? I hope you are not proposing eradicating Cantonese genes. Right?
Not to offend, you have a funny idea of why we learn English. I showed it to my wife and my young kid, they both laughed to death! We all don’t understand why knowing English can find a partner with better genes. Since you know English, did you find your right one with better genes than those who don’t know English? How can you prove that? Mind you, some of the well-educated people in Hong Kong and China chose not to have offspring these days.
Of course many mutations change the course of evolution to new light
Otherwise why there are single cell animals evolved to complex animals. In my last post, I only pointed out that mutation is a very slow process. Judging by your last post, you have just watched a TV series “Human ape” produced by National Geographic, which was shown on ATV World Channel a few weeks ago. These series have been produced a few years ago. It says that when we compare the skull bone of Australopithecus boisei and Homo erectus, A. boisei has a prominent sagittal crest on it skull caused by attachment of jaw muscle (presumably the Temporalis, a masticatory muscle) while H. erectus don’t have it. They postulated that this muscle produced a huge masticatory force on the skull and constrained the development of the brain, and that is why H. erectus had larger brain case, more intelligent, and they evolved to use tool. However, there are some more points to note:
1. In genus Australopithecus, only aethopicus, robustus, boisei have these sagittal crests. There are still debates that whether they should be put in a separate Genus Paranthropus (it is the latest thinking, and since they are very different morphologically, I like to use Paranthropus to represent them).
2. The first species of Homo should be H. habilis (the ‘Handy man’ that were universally agreed who could use more sophisticated tool. I don’t know why they did not compare with this species) It is probably directly descended from Australopithecus garhi, Australopithecus africanus or Australopithecus afarensis (there is still debate about it) that all these three species do not have sagittal crest. Ancestor of Genus Homo is definitely not Paranthropus.
3. Australopithecus afarensis, the species that ‘Lucy’ belongs to, is not considered to be the first hominin nowadays. It is Australopithecus anamensis that appeared 4.2-3.9mya (million years ago) who is given the credit. It appeared earlier than ‘Lucy’.
4. Hominin walked out of the forest long before the appearance of Paranthropus.
5. The huge jaw muscle of Genus Paranthropus was probably due to their diet that they ate tough vegetation. Genus Homo were omnivores and they could find food more easily and their food was more nutritive so they could easily out compete Paranthropus. Some people even say that Homo preyed on Paranthropus. Paranthropus is only considered as a side branch of human evolution chain that represented an unsuccessful path of evolution parallel to that followed by our direct ancestor.
6. There was sexual dimorphism in Paranthropus. Females didn’t have that sagittal crest, so there was no muscle constraint on skull bone. However, there was no evidence of brain case of female Paranthropus being larger.
7. They compared the jaw muscle of modern apes to modern human and found that jaw muscle fibre of ape was larger than that of human. They then extrapolated this result to H. erectus and P. boisei and said that there might be a single mutation of gene that changed the size of jaw muscle fiber hence producing less force.
8. When we study modern apes, only gorillas have this sagittal crest. Chimpanzees do not have it, and their brain volume is still significantly smaller than modern human. Mind you, gorilla is herbivorous and Chimp is omnivorous.
9. By common sense, the magnitude of force exerted by a muscle depends on the size of the muscle as a whole, not to the size of muscle fiber. Therefore, in this experiment, the wrong parameter might have been chosen.
10. By modern research, we know that the size of muscle can be trained. That means, if a skinny person goes through vigorous training, his muscle volume can increase and their muscle fiber can increase in size (hypertrophy). Therefore, the difference in muscle size from Genus Paranthropus to Genus Homo may be due to diet change instead of mutation of gene controlling size of muscle.
11. Although the jaw muscle is larger in Paranthropus, the larger force did not necessarily constrain the skull. If you look at the anatomy of its skull, there is a sagittal suture between the left and right side of the skull. If there is growth potential of brain, the Skull can easily expand by bone growth in this suture.
12. Larger brain size species (Which is said to be more intelligent) did not necessarily out compete smaller brain one. One example is Homo neanderthalensis (another human species that co-existed with Homo sapiens for a period of time in Europe) that had a larger brain volume than Homo sapiens was out competed by our immediate ancestors.
The above may make other people bored to death. However, since you have a background in life science, I think you know what I mean. I haven’t read the scientific report about this. If I can have a copy of it, I may think otherwise. I am not here to boast my knowledge but just to show you that it could be dangerous to believe popular newspaper, TV shows (in this case, I think only 5 to 10min spent on it) so easily.
You have mentioned another experiment comparing short-term memory of Chimp to young human kid. I think their conclusion is correct. However, your extrapolation of good short-term memory to speed and reflexes really shock me. We don’t know for sure what make memory in our brain. It may be some chemical mediator or inter-connection between nerve fibers (Central nervous system). Speed and reflex are more of concern with the peripheral nervous system. They are totally different things. If your theory is correct, the NBA team can select their player by testing their short-term memory. Isn’t it weird? If you want to prove Black people is more ‘monkey like’ (‘Ape like’, is a more appropriate term. I think you know the difference between monkey and ape.), a small experiment can be easily conducted by slightly modifying the current one. You can just recruit a number of young kids, group them according to their skin colour and test their short-term memory. If the results show that black kids have a more powerful short-term memory, than you theory is right. You may also derive an experiment to compare the speed of reflex between Chimp and difference colour skinned people. But, to do that, you have to get the approval of the University Ethical committee first. Doing thing mostly by intuition without proper and careful reasoning is more of ‘monkey like’ in your own words.
I think nobody in this forum says everyone is equal genetically (you and your offspring also have genetic difference. This is what makes an individual an “individual”) or in any other aspect. However, is this small difference really makes one race more ‘evolved’ than the other? Mind you, we are the same sub-species Homo sapiens sapiens. Furthermore, we are all Chinese, no matter where we come from.
I really don’t think genetic and evolution have any relevant in the discussion of teaching medium. May be we just stop here (as you say, judging by my understanding of evolution, we are hardly on a close level for a meaningful discussion and you don’t owe any one an education) and go back to pros and cons of teaching in PTH and Cantonese. I have to confess that I know very little about the good and bad of both dialects. After reading kaykaychow’s post, I hope someone can give some more scholastic information about the beauty of PTH. May be Wicked can give some more information. BTW, can you tell me in what circumstances, 蘇東坡give his comment about the local Southern dialect? Where did it come from? I can’t find it in the Internet. I know you don’t owe anyone a lecture here, but I really want to learn more. One of my most respected Professors said,’ Once a student, always a student!’ I think it is very true!
Basically, I am an easygoing person. I am not planning to reply in this thread anymore after reading your reply. However, after reading Eviepa’s post, I think I have an obligation to tell others that there may be misleading information in some seemingly scientific arguments. Reminding someone is also a friendly gesture, isn’t it?
Ah! One more thing, who is the Father of psychology is in dispute. William James, Wilhelm Maximilian Wundt and Sigmund Freud have been given the credit. There was no one single person found psychology for sure. Freud is better to be considered as Father of psychoanalysis according to his work. I think you know what’s the difference between psychology and psychoanalysis. Right?
I think I will not answer your post if you insist on there is a relationship between teaching medium and genetics or evolution. I have been blamed by my wife that I have been 無聊 in discussing these things with a nonsensical person (I have to apologize for my wife to make such a rude comment.) In order to keep my family in harmony, I better stop here. 廣東話:怕老婆會發達!
Regards,
Friendlyguy
P.S. I did not study anthropology. All the information on human evolution came from my son who is still a primary student. Believe it or not, he is the expert in this field in my family. So, if you find anything wrong in this post, don’t blame me! 廣東話:有怪莫怪,細路仔唔識世界。 |
|