有關“聖心明天 Interview la“被關閉

andrewchiu

對於該帖被關閉,我眞的感到十分遺憾和失望！我一直只是旁觀者,因為很喜歡SH,所以都不斷參考其他家長的意見,當中我也勸慰大家和平冷靜討論和表達意見。坦白講,我覺得GandL的説話好客觀。我認為大家真的要多一點氣量,不要隨便封殺他人的言論(除非惡意中傷,對他人侮辱或人生攻擊等)。既然是一個論壇,㸃解唔容許不同的睇法？我無意冒犯任何人,只希望大家客觀一點罷了！

JoJo

andrewchiu 發表於 12-1-19 18:00
對於該帖被關閉,我眞的感到十分遺憾和失望！我一直只是旁觀者,因為很喜歡SH,所以都不斷參考其他家長的意見, ...

謝謝閣下對教育王國的支持.
關於這帖關上的原因, 超版已經詳述清楚. 如會員經過勸喻仍有意無意的作出挑釁及在該帖作出沒有意思的回覆. 而該帖的樓主也同意關帖, 那關帖便是最終的方法.

我們不移走這帖, 因這裡有很多會員作出有用的分享. 我們亦希望這些有用的資料對其他會員能有幫助.


有關閣下發的帖, 本人會移到使用意見中, 敬請注意

andrewchiu

Jojo, 謝謝您的意見和安排！
我想指出,挑釁不只是作出一些過激的言語造成,意圖禁止他人表達己見同樣是一種挑釁。我希望大家反思,提供一個公平,公正的論壇給持不同意見的家長分享！

JoJo

謝謝你的意見.

一直以來我們抱著一個信念, 就是接納正反意見. 好讓家長能夠作多方面收集資料, 從而再了解自己心儀的學校情況.

我們並不會禁止他人表達自己意見. 硬要人認同自己觀點.

但當會員作挑釁, 目的是誘發罵戰, 那便是有違本網站之版規. 我們便要作出相關行動.

GandL

Post deleted by writer as contents were thereafter found to be inappropriate.  Apology hereby given to all affected parties, in particular, Ian.

GandL

Post deleted by writer as contents were thereafter found tobe inappropriate.  Apology hereby given to all affected parties, in particular, Ian.

andrewchiu

回復 GandL 的帖子

GandL, i do agree with your opinions but perhaps you have some misunderstanding of their arrangement in shutting down and removing the threads (hopefully it is not my misunderstanding).firstly, i  think they did not mean you were the person who posted the 挑釁 wordings. probably they mean the one who kept arguing with Ian in Chinese. it may just be a coincidence that the thread was shut down 6 mins after your last post. as they indicated, they had got the consent of 樓主 before they shut down the thread. it is unlikely that they could view your post, ask for 樓主 consent, got the consent and shut it down within 6 mins.
besides, i understand and respect their relocation of my thread. i agree that the thread was not posted on an appropriate location but i did it intentionly so as to show others my disappointment. i supposed no one would know my thread has been relocated here and i wonder how were you so smart to find it out! haha
i hope you would agree with my thoughts above and feel better now!

iantsang

回復 GandL 的帖子

Hi GandL,

I am actually feeling quite sad about your reaction so may I share with you some information concerning the actions begin taken.  Also, from your previous comments in the thread related to the interview, I believe there are some guidelines that I acted as administrator must follow to ensure my impartiality.

First of all, we would like to keep the posts relevant to the topic as much as possible.  This is one of the responsibility of the administrators.  So, if we found the posts by members are no longer relevant, then we will consider closing a thread.  When the situation allow, we will first give a reminder to members as a post before we do so.  And you can found that I have done so at #217.

Following that, to protecting the interest of the initiator of the thread, I have also sent a private message to seek the consensus of the initiator as that is the member who held the ownership of the thread.  Because the initiator actually requested the thread to be closed, so I have done so to comply with the request.

It was unfortunate that you posted right before the moment I was writing the final post to close the thread.  Quite honestly I saw your post after i sent out the closing post, so in fact, I was worried if you would misunderstand (and seems to be the case now).

Concerning comments that you have posted in that thread, I have treated them as comments same as everyone else.  I do hope you understand that all along, both positive and negative comments are welcomed, and I trusted that I have done so.  However, we do have guidelines to assure objective exchange of ideas, but not argument.  So, when there are members who make provocative statement or personal attacks, etc., then we will have to remind them and provide warning when necessary.  For your information, none of my replies in that thread are related to any of your posts, so I hope you are also clear on that.  I respected your comments and didn't feel it is necessary to add any further comments.



Now back to this particular post which you have posted.  First of all I feel I am being mistreated simply because of the various identities which I held in parallel.  I believe this has not been fair to me as you are simply imposing false accusation on my character.  I can understand parents, including you, may have hard time or frustration through this interview process and they may lost control of their emotion from time to time.  If this is the case, I would understand that, but I would prefer a proper apology.

I hope you understand that while being an administrator, we are still allowed to express our personal comments so as everyone else.  In an imperfect world, some of these posts from myself may be difficult to differentiate from which identities I was using, so I think this is something that I should be careful in the future.  However, they key misunderstanding here is we do not, and never should, disallow members to share.  I re-visited the whole thread for one more time and I couldn't find I have done so.  One point that you may have missed is the member who received warning have posted a provocative message at #140.  I noted the message and then I gave the reminder to this member to be careful of the choice of words, but not the contents.  Members have the freedom to share contents from any angles, but we do not welcome any comments which may lead to argument.  After noted my reminder, the member removed the contents totally by own self.  I hope to make this clear I didn't delete any members' posts here, and I would be wrong if I have done so.  However, I believe you might have been accidentally mislead by the posts by another member and thought I have done so.

I hope parents can be responsible in their sharing and not to let emotion override our thinking and actions.  It is fine with negative comments on matters, but not on each others.  I hope this is clear and I hope you have a better understanding now.

Finally, I do wish you all the best on finding a suitable schools for your children.  To relate to your situation, my family has also went through 5 years of interviews since 2007.  I can understand how much pressure we as parents have to face.

All the best and I wish you a prosperous Chinese New Year.

Ian

iantsang

andrewchiu 發表於 12-1-20 23:40
回復 GandL 的帖子

GandL, i do agree with your opinions but perhaps you have some misunderstanding o ...

Hi andrewchiu,

In order to assure that I have comply to the code of conduct as an administrator, I have invited another administrator to help to review the thread and the actions that I have taken.  Thanks to JoJo's help and replies to you which I think you now should be clear about what happened.

Thank you for pointing out the concerns and I hope it is clear to you now what position we take on monitoring this forum.

Happy Chinese New Year!

Ian

andrewchiu

回復 iantsang 的帖子

dear Ian,
i think the misunderstanding was caused by your different identites. you are the 超級版主 and therefore most people, if not all, expect you to hold a fair view in any threads. i believe many people, including me, assume that you, as the 超級版主, should act like a host in a forum without giving any personal opinion. that's why some people may think that you are bias. frankly speaking, to avoid misunderstanding i think it's inappropriate for a 超級版主 giving own feeling in a thread. otherwise, this kind of misunderstanding will happen again and again as people may not know which identity you are using when you say something. if you really want to give your personal comment, you may make a clarification before that. but personally i still recommend you not doing so. i would regard it as a sacrifice for taking the role of the 超級版主。

Have a Happy Chinese New Year!

GandL

Thanks Andrew and Ian for the clarification and explanation.

To start with, I would first offer my formal apology to Ian for my misunderstanding and wrong allegations re the shutting down and relocation of the thread.  if you think that's a better and fairer way of handling this matter, I could remove the contents of my 2 posts above. Again, herewith my formal apology.

As regards my comments on the other thread, I note your position, but I'm afraid I'll have to stand by my earlier stance.  Of course you have never actually forbidden anyone to express negative comments, but as I see it, those who complained would receive rather harsh criticisms, and sadly they were not too rarely from, or endorsed by you.  

Without any intention to trigger any quarrel, I hope you won't mind if I cite a few examples which I really didn't feel too comfortable after reading. On one occasion, when one parent queried why the school didn't open the playground so that the kids could better spend the waiting time, you responded by saying that you felt sad when seeing that comment as your kids would be glad to spend as much time with you as possible without needing any entertainment. I can imagine how harsh this response might be for that parent. For me, I felt like you were conveying message that it's pathetic that any parent would need a playground in keeping the kid happy, shouldn't any kids be glad just by seeing their parents? Who and why would they need plaything when the father is around? Whilst I congratulate you for having such a close relationship with your girls, but this response, for me, was kind of mean...  Then there was anther parent who complained about the interview being late, and said something like other schools wee not like this. Your immediate response was if so, you should consider sending the kids gui those

GandL

(continue) sending the kid to those schools.  Ian, dissatisfaction about an interview arrangement doesn't mean she disagrees with the school. The response was, for me, kind of rude and quite close to asking her to shut up.
if I remember correctly, she then said something about being trained in commercial world, being late is unacceptable, she then raised a few suggestions which I vaguely recall did make sense. Your response was, if you have any opinion, the proper channel its to talk to the school, complaining in a forum is not the proper channel....  Sorry, but what is the purpose of a public forum then?  Why can't she voiced out get opinions here?  I recall that parent said something like she would shut her mouth then. With respect, that would also be my response if I were her.

One more (from my memory, hope I didn't remember it wrongly), you also responded by saying something like ' all parent volunteers sacrificed their own time to help, perhaps next year you or the school should simply let the parents wait for 1 or 2 hours, then they may know howto appreciate others, but people nowadays just like complaining, don't they?'  With a past like this from the board admin, who dare to complaint anymore? Weren't you in essence saying, those who complained are people who didn't know how to appreciate others, and who only knew how to complaned? Vaguely, you also mentioned about why couldn't people be more considerate, rather than keep complaining. You see-thru what sorts of label you tagged on the parents who expressed negative comments?  Inconsiderate, never learnt to appreciate others, only kept pointing fingers, pathetic for not having a close and sweet relationship with the kids ........ honestly, how many others dare to keep expressing opposing views in views of all the negative labels?

GandL

I wish you understand, I am just focusing on the facts, not you.  I said it before, I respect you a lot for your contributions throughout, and I am still feeling this way now. Just that I am a bit disappointed at this particular occasion.  If any of my words made your feel offended, I am sorry. But ask I said before, I too am an old girl of sacred heart, and I love it so much. Yet, this should not be a reason to feel offended when negative views were expressed.   but as I said, it may be harder for you as you may have considered yourself part of the target of the criticism.  

Once again, my apology for my earlier misunderstanding and allegations wrongly made against you on the shutting down and relocation of thread. I withdraw all of them.

Thank you.

iantsang

回復 andrewchiu 的帖子

Hi andrewchiu,

I fully understand your point of view and quite frankly, I have been giving much less personal opinions compare to the past when I was just a regular member.  To be fair to me and to everyone else that, we are all simply human being.  I do agree that it is better for me to make clear clarification when I make comment so members would know which role I am representing for my posts.  I accept this suggestion and I would make it clearer for the future.  However, I am sorry that I cannot accept such sacrifice of not giving personal comments.  I do believe I still have such freedom of speech with my multiple identities and I have the trust from BK that I can manage to do so.  And I would like you to kindly allow me to do so.  Thank you once again and I appreciate this method of exchanging ideas to make it better for the future.  This is how things can be improved and could benefit more people.

Ian

iantsang

回復 GandL 的帖子

Hi GandL,

Let me begin by sharing my deepest appreciation for your apology.  I also respect your consistency to try to discuss your concern on my previous posts and I am open to discuss with you in an appropriate thread.  Thanks andrewchiu for providing such an opportunity for us to share openly.

For the first case that you stated, it was really not my intention to be mean to that member.  I just thought naturally it is an enjoyable chance to be around my children all the time...... on second thought as you brought it up, I do agree that it can be viewed that way.  If I made you and other members feel that, I am very sorry but it really wasn't what I meant.  What I was wondering is why it is a must to play to warmup, a question that I am sincere on finding out, as I do want to understand the parents better to help more.

On the second case, I think this is a subjective difference here.  Of course, I should be more careful but sometimes I really feel there are still a lot of things that I don't understand.  For me personally, kindergarten interview is like romantic love (I think I mentioned this some day some time long ago ).  So, it is almost like love at first sight.  Of course not everyone believe in that so the reason why I said so is if the feeling is not right, then it may not be a good idea to choose this school.  Somehow you should trust your feeling and consider the other schools which provide better arrangement.  It is because at the end, it is not just a feeling and there is a rationale in behind.  If a kindergarten cannot provide a satisfying arrangement from the get go, then it is likely the parents had established negative feelings about this kindergarten already.  So, the trust between them cannot be established well and it would be difficult for the parents and the children to study in this kindergarten happily.  'coz there will still be many opportunities that some of the future arrangement are coming from a certain perspective, if the parents cannot agree, then they will have a really bad time if they insist simply based on fame or other reasons.  So, it was really a truthful suggestion.  But true, I could have said more in detail but I still can't understand why someone would take it as asking her to shut up.  I am really sorry but I don't look at people this way.

For the one about raising suggestion, this one I am standing by my comments firmly.  If you still remember, the first sentence of that member's post was something like, "To those who are related to the kindergarten".  If this wasn't being said, then I agree with you fully that I was wrong.  However, such leading sentence would make me wonder why asked someone else to do the job for you?  It would be so indirect and quite frankly, I don't think anyone related to the kindergarten would do that for that member.  Then why the hassle to suggest something that will never go to the management?  Isn't it better to share with them directly?  Don't you think so?

For the last one, it was just a general sharing.  I just feel as we are all parents, both the parents coming to the interview and parents helping the interview (in any kindergartens), any of you would be in either role in turn.  I was just hoping that when people begin to complain, they would begin by considering they could be those helpers too.  It's to remind them to step into other shoes and it is not the kindergarten I am protecting, but I do feel I have the rights to stand by anyone who volunteered for good purpose.  Of course things can always be look at from either side but I really don't feel there are any problems with my comments there.  May be the way that I put this in too general view turned out making parents feel they are being pointed at.  I was really hoping to remind people but seems what happened is it created a bigger mis-understanding incurring from the previous confusions.

Throughout the whole process, I do feel it was an unfortunate sequence of mis-understanding.  One of the key issue which I admit, is due to my multiple identities which certainly complicated the issue.  To be exact, I believe some members would feel I have a predefined standpoint which I really don't have.  I am almost like a person with split personality which I can manage to think in parallel with the various identities.  So again, I admit that I could have done better by citing which side I am from for each post, so members could understand better I am saying such things as a regular member, the administrator or a parent helper.  At the end, I wanna be clear with one thing:  I never would stop members to say negative things.  Sometimes all I am trying to do is to try to help parents to think differently and hope they can have a broader picture only.  It is not a happy thing to keep on thinking about negative things.  So why not make it a better would together?  I just have a very simple mission, and by being a parent of a certain kindergarten, it doesn't mean I have to protect it.  I accept openly that it is not perfect and everyone should choose the one which fit them.  I think I have said so over thousand times and this is still what I think and agree upon.  And I hope members can trust that I am able to do so.  Thank you!

For one more time, thanks for your time and efforts to try to state out your concern and I hope I had addressed them.  Sometimes it is hard to exchange ideas with a full perspective in a forum as we all come from a different background.  So everyone may have different interpretation and if I said something wrong, I also hope people like you can remind me too.  This is what we stand by so no need to always say you are making suicidal attempts...... (sorry I guess this is a bad joke)

Again, happy Chinese New Year and really hope from the bottom of my heart that you got closure with my reply.  

Sincerely,

Ian

GandL

Thanks, Ian, for your time and patience in explaining your views and your thoughts underlying the comments made. I greatly appreciate that.  Although we may at the end still hold on to our own stance, but I am grateful for, and deeply appreciate, the sensible and rational discussions, despite our differencs in standpoint and views.  At the end of the day, theer won't be right or wrong / win or lose.  But at least, we all get a fair chance to state our own views.  

As I have repeatedly mentioned, I had and still have great respect for your selfless contributions, sharing, and all tbe invaluable advice and assistance your have given to us parents all along. As of now, I remain of the same views. So again, thank you.

Yes you are right, I think it's time (at least for myself) to put and end to this discussion, as you deserve to spend this festive season time with your lovely family!  So may I wish you and your family a very happy and fruitful year of the dragon!

All the best!

edea

GandL 發表於 12-1-20 15:49
I was so shocked at the responses taken by the 2 board administrators.

The very last message on  ...

作為和聖心無關的局外人看, 整個主題至被關閉, 我會指出有問題的會員是hangyodon, 用詞無禮及挑起爭端, Iantsang發出警告是合理的.

至於對面試安排的正反看法, 我看來雙方都只是表達了各自的看法, 有家長寧願有playground讓子女玩耍, 有家長覺得女兒陪伴在身邊一起等候都不錯, 彼此各有選擇, 如果說Ian的說法就是對另一種看法的家長harsh, 實在太敏感了吧?

由此至終, 沒有人去阻止另一方發言(直到情況失控要版主關文), 雖然彼此立場見解不同.  彼此用語應該可以更溫和, 但打理教育王國多年, 我都看慣一些評價例如 "你這麼多負評就不要讀啦",  屬實屢見不鮮, 說這種話是不值得鼓勵, 不算客氣, 網上討論很多時就是因為大家不見面, 用詞不會婉轉, 但是亦未算違規, 但版主會建議將gut feeling包裝一下, 不要直接令聽者難堪.  

我對不能容納另一種聲音的講法不能認同, 到主題後來已經開始失控, 版主關上是正常做法, GandL的回應沒有構成關文的原因.

最後我想講: "This also reminds me of the old saying ~ "authority and power will always corrupt a person" ~  how wise and true!!!" 這句狠評是不是有必要? 從未覺得Iantsang是這種人, 亦不見他做了什麼有腐敗的問題, 對於你用這個指控, 我為Iantsang覺得難堪, 一來不是事實, 二來說到口邊留三分, 這句話, 太狠了. 作為版主iantsang萬事容忍, 但我看到這句話卻覺得很難受.

edea