ISF or CDNIS? - 國際學校

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	23065

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發表於 12-11-30 14:38 |只看該作者

回復 Annie123 的帖子

Annie123,

昨日发文后, 已经后悔了!
虽然是真心话, 总觉得是否阿女儿刚好in the gap between Chinese A and B, 因此特别敏感了.

我也听过类似编班上的小动作故事, 多数是家长们随口讲的想法, 真实个案是一个也没有这般做的孩子. 得罪人也要说, 如果真的有家长和孩子特意考中文低分, 而读Chinese as foreign language, 以为是成绩好的short cut, 甘肯定成家人都是傻瓜了.

记得你的儿子近十三岁, 分班应该是:1) Chinese as 1st language. 2) Mandarine as Foreign Language, 3) Chinese for 鬼仔, 其它再细分小组.

正路是黑头发有父母教一点和上补习的, 能力一般在第二组别 ,如果用功点, 加上喜好, 很大机会是有能力在第一组别了, 请明白group 1) & 2) 的学习内容相差八百哩,加上外边有扶助,
group 1) 的孩子是很有potential 更上班层楼的, 有得上group 1) 一定要去, 否则留在group 2) 数手指, 混混鄂鄂过日子, 浪费金钱银纸.

有人话念Mandarin Foreigner 易取个A* 啊! 当然唔系, 鬼老一早知道两张paper 的分别, 是心中有数的.
够有家长话想考另一张Maths 浅paper, 容易取A*, 傻瓜! 系人都知道张数学paper 太浅, 正常中学生唔会想考的.
取个A* 返来做物?

坊间是满布传言, 就算是机关算尽的家长, 绝大部分都是得个'讲'字, 不会如此干的, 那位不是聪明人, 得闲计得尽,不如教好自己的金波罗. 我的理解是绝大多数是孩子对中文愈大愈抗拒, 爸妈很头痛才转科的, 有人喜爱读french，spanish，german 之類的 ab initio, 咪读罗, 很难确认别人意途的. 何需失望, 讲真见到2nd language 是 ab initio , admission officer 看整题成绩时总有点保留吧.

我一直覺得 ib language 的 syllabus 有問題，b hl 和 a sl 的差距太大，( 或是我的理解有錯呢？) 這亦是有很多人想 avoid chinese a 的原因吧。

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**呢个问题应该交由Anchan 解答.!!!!!!

**我的理解是所有学科也是HL 比SL 艰巨很多, 因此不是Chinese 的独有問題

**如果孩子有足够能力和兴趣, 考到Bilingual Diploma 是很威风的事, 点会想
avoid Chinese A. 现实是普遍学校支援似乎有限,(睇IS 孩子们踊跃往外私补就知道), 连LS转读的也在退步中. 要读真的要靠个人本事和毅力了.

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	32340

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發表於 12-11-30 15:15 |只看該作者

回覆：ISF or CDNIS?

Bilingual diploma has zero advantage in university placement. Yes? The effort in doing Chinese A is not properly recognized. So this is a flaw in IB? Or IB never expected many bilingual diploma.

點評

Annie123 而且，也不可能真是 zero。如果學校惆悵從兩個學生二選一，可能 bilingual diploma 會決定勝負。發表於 12-11-30 15:32

annie40 虽然是zero advantage , 但对个人的中文提升是大有帮助啊! 發表於 12-11-30 15:29

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

Annie123

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發表於 12-11-30 15:23 |只看該作者

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	23065

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發表於 12-11-30 15:42 |只看該作者

回復 Annie123 的帖子

If I'm in your shoes, I will:

除却大学准备进修中文, 或其它外语, 看不出为何2nd Languae 要读HL, 把三科(HL) 留给主打科或强项科吧! 如果只得两科合适的HL , 才勉强考虑Mandarin B (higher level). 不管中文是挑SL, or HL. IB前学多些中文, 还是十分有用处!

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Annie123 同意發表於 12-11-30 16:00

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	32340

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發表於 12-12-1 02:19 |只看該作者

Annie123  而且，也不可能真是 zero。如果學校惆悵從兩個學生二選一，可能 bilingual diploma 會決定勝負。  發表於昨天 15:32

Do you know University requirements actually ask for bilingual diploma?  I don't believe so.  A degree in translation, may be some advantage.  My point is, the effort for a Chinese A is great and it outweights any potential benefits in University placement.

annie40  虽然是zero advantage , 但对个人的中文提升是大有帮助啊!  發表於昨天 15:29

Yes, agree but it is a lot of effort in achieving a good Chinese A grade.  Inevitably other subjects suffer, or less spare time, etc.

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annie40 是理想与现实! 發表於 12-12-3 15:24

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

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	4564

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發表於 12-12-1 12:51 |只看該作者

本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-12-1 13:32 編輯

Sorry, I am a bit confused. What are the university admission officers really against? Do they just want HK students to take Chinese in Group 1 or they don't mind if these students take Chinese in Group 2 so long as it's HL?

NoahArk

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	1207

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發表於 12-12-1 14:55 |只看該作者

回覆：ISF or CDNIS?

My understanding is that some admission officers don't like Chinese students taking Chinese B at standard level. They may tend to think the students are taking an easy way out.

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annie40 真冤枉! 發表於 12-12-3 15:24

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	32340

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發表於 12-12-1 22:17 |只看該作者

NoahArk 發表於 12-12-1 14:55
My understanding is that some admission officers don't like Chinese students taking Chinese B at sta ...

How can this be true? How do admission officers define Chinese students? By ethnicity? By the city they grew up? Even local school students may be bad in Chinese language.

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

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	4564

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發表於 12-12-2 10:47 |只看該作者

本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-12-2 10:49 編輯

Looking at the IB data, I can see that the total number of students taking Chinese over the past few years are as follows.  By the way, when I say "Chinese", I mean Chinese A1 (HL & SL) + Cantonese B (HL &SL) + Chinese A2 (HL &SL) + Mandarin AB + Mandarin B (HL & SL)

Year       Total No.of Students          Percentage Increased
2008       1,945
2009       2.575                               + 32.4%
2010       2,951                               + 14.6%
2011       3,483                               + 18%
2012       4,249                               + 22%

As we can see the number of students taking Chinese is rocketing.

Now let's look at 2012's data.  The number of students taking the various levels of Chinese were as follows:-

Level                      No. of Students          Percentage
Chinese A1 HL       352                            8.3%
Chinese A1 SL       656                            15.4%
Chinese A2 HL       160                            3.8%
Chinese A2 SL       224                            5.3%
Mandarin B HL       641                            15.1%
Mandarin B SL       1443                         34%
Cantonese B HL       23                            0.5%
Cantonese B SL       15                            0.4%
Mandarin AB             735                         17.3%

As almost 48% of the total students are taking Chinese at a level higher than Chinese B SL and the number is swelling each year, perhaps the university admission officers can afford to be more choosy. I guess this might be the real threat to students taking Chinese B SL.

NoahArk

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	1207

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發表於 12-12-2 11:05 |只看該作者

回覆：shadeslayer 的帖子

It's according to what I heard from parents with kids in upper grades. Last year student A attended an interview at HKU law school. First question asked was why she took Chinese B (not sure whether she did HL or SL). Student B had an online interview with another university in the States. Again, questioned about her decision to take Chinese B.

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	32340

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發表於 12-12-2 11:21 |只看該作者

引用：+本帖最後由+bobbycheung+於+12-12-2+10:49

原帖由 bobbycheung 於 12-12-02 發表
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-12-2 10:49 編輯

Looking at the IB data, I can see that the total num ...

Thanks bobbycheung.

Apart from language based degree, would universities favor Chinese B HL or above? If everything else equal, including interview, extra curricular activities, passion, etc are the same, may be.

Just like some parents ask, can my children study more than 3 HL. Will the universities favor them? May be. But will you put in huge effort to move one subject from SL to HL because there is a might be? Se goes for Chinese.

Of course Chinese is different. Chinese is our root. We should think beyond university admission. I am not sure there is any "practical" advantage in admission.

I think it is a flaw in the IB program. However, the university may not agree bilingual diploma should be given more credit at admission.

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

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	32340

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發表於 12-12-2 11:23 |只看該作者

回覆：ISF or CDNIS?

Also, my response before the last was about people claiming university discriminate against Chinese students taking Chinese B. I just don't understand.

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

poonseelai

伯爵府

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發表於 12-12-2 14:26 |只看該作者

bobbycheung 發表於 12-12-2 10:47
Looking at the IB data, I can see that the total number of students taking Chinese over the past few ...

Do you know what is the difference between Chinese and Mandarin? Thanks

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	4564

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發表於 12-12-2 18:11 |只看該作者

本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-12-2 18:19 編輯

Let's forget Cantonese B and Mandarin AB for the time being and focus on Chinese A1 (HL & SL), Chinese A2 (HL &SL) and Mandarin B (HL & SL).
For 2012, the number of students getting Grade 5, 6 and 7 are set out below:-

Level                         Grade 5          Grade 6          Grade 7
Chinese A1 HL          141                162                21
Chinese A1 SL          236                269                46
Chinese A2 HL          10                   118                34
Chinese A2 SL          25                   146                54
Mandarin B HL          90                   276                231
Total:                      502                   971                386

For ease of reference, the number of students getting Grade 5, 6 and 7 in Mandarin B SL in 2012 are as follows:-

Level                         Grade 5          Grade 6          Grade 7
Mandarin B SL          216                   433                606

So out of a total of 2,033 students who took Chinese at a level higher than Mandarin B SL, 502 students got Grade 5, 971 got Grade 6 and 386 got Grade 7.  These are by no means small numbers.

As the number of students from China grows. the chance is that they will more likely than not be taking Chinese at a level higher than Mandarin B SL.  If that indeed turns out to be the case, then this trend might work against Hong Kong students who are more comfortable with Mandarin B SL.

(By the way, I am not saying or implying those who take Mandarin B SL are no good or not good enough.  In fact, I would be overjoyed if my kids could manage Mandarin B SL.)

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annie40 真系甘难? 發表於 12-12-3 15:29

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	4564

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發表於 12-12-3 15:48 |只看該作者

Annie,

唔係 "真系甘难?", 而係 "真系甘渣!".

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	23065

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發表於 12-12-3 16:14 |只看該作者

回復 bobbycheung 的帖子

Bobby,

看得多资料, 愈觉是疑云阵阵, 我自己的简单理解是:

1) HKU LAW 关心Mandarin B 是合理的, 因为香港在法律界, 未来肯定是双语发展的, HKU读完LAW, 如果中文差, 将来也是前程有限的.
2)海外大学问IS孩子的Mandarin B 是小人之心,度君子之福!, 原全当中国人懂中文是天生能力, 妄姑IS 孩子(里边大把ABC) 学写中文的血泪史, 我够好想问点解佢admission officer ,美国老 D 英文发音麻麻地, 我个女D英语牛津口音好听D 播! why? why? why? 是否佢读书唔用心, 出身唔经贵, 求其在大学打工make a easy life.
3) 总之是有本事就话之佢点選也好! 否则读物都无用.
我做人唔多现实, 想到老是跟着人家的想法走, 不如按自己的意愿走! 最少有D guts!

自己的正路是:
1) 提议孩子選中文,.
2) 孩子唔钟意中文, 就读其它外语, 重要是原校有良好师资support.
3) 基础外语较弱, take new languages ab. (朋友儿子往Italy 读IB, take Italian ab (也是入 US ivy league 了).

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	32340

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發表於 12-12-3 17:01 |只看該作者

引用：回復+bobbycheung+的帖子 Bobby,看得多资

原帖由 annie40 於 12-12-03 發表
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子

Bobby,

Annie40,

提議非常正路。香港的大學除了 HKU Law 外，有其他科目要求好 mandarin?

The more bizzare a thing is, the less mysterious it proves to be.

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	23065

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發表於 12-12-3 17:34 |只看該作者

I guess INTERPRETATION (major English/Chinese) & CHINESE HISTORY.