ISF or CDNIS?

dumbdonkey

liu_cmc 發表於 12-4-26 19:00
Hi,
ISF or CDNIS? which one will you chose?

ISF and CDNIS are two completely different schools and should be not compared. does an apple taste better than a orange?
Parents should do more research into the school and understand what each school has to offer. If your real priority is Mandarin, then Kiangsu is your obvious choice. Both schools offer IB (ISF at some point) so what is your question. Define what a good teacher is and what 'discipline' is then you might be able to understand your own question. All your other issues can be dealt with by doing research.

HKTHK

回復 bobbycheung 的帖子

Am bored and rereading some old posts.  I wonder if class size has to do with allowing ISF to catch up as well.  ISF is at 18, SIS at 25 and CIS at 22.  I am a believer in small class education as that allows the teacher to pay more individual attention to students.  
At the end of the day though, I don't worry much about English as I intend to send my kids abroad and am sure they will be fluent.  What I do worry about is Mandarin since they will have much less chance to use it when they go abroad.

bobbycheung

回復 HKTHK 的帖子

I don't really know, but my gut feeling is that a class size difference of 4 to 7 students wouldn't make a lot of difference.  2 questions came to my mind.  (1) If ISF is to reduce its class size to 2 or 3, would its students' English level be significantly better?  Could the extra attention each individual student get compensate for the loss of hours (which looks to be very substantial over a period of 13 years)?  I guess not.  (2) I believe schools like GSIS has a class size of 25.  If they were to reduce the class size to 18, would its students' English standard be a lot better?  Again, I guess not.  
Anyway, I guess one of the main problems is that it is very difficult to assess how good one's English is by just hearing him talking.  I speak perfect Cantonese with a perfect accent.  English people hear me talking might think my Chinese is as good as that of 董橋 or 蕭若元.  But the truth is .   Likewise, most people in UK speak perfect English with an English accent.  But surely their English standard cannot all be the same.  

HKTHK

Unless kids are going to study literature or be a writer, I do think there is a certain level of fluency that is "good enough".  For me, I just want them to be able to speak like a native speaker, read any books and write an essay or love letter if needs be.  While it would be nice if their writing is as good as 董橋, doubt that's going to happen!

nintendo

HKTHK 發表於 12-6-21 01:42
Unless kids are going to study literature or be a writer, I do think there is a certain level of flu ...

可能你唔係好明西方中英文課程，西方人叫的 english class (langauge class)，就有大比例的 literature。
esf 在高小時已開始讀莎士比亞 (當然，只是讀皮毛，同中學時讀的不同水平)。初中開始每年兩三本至五六本不等的書要讀，係要做 analysis，要了解故事的歷史背景，學習各種文學技考，和本地課程學下 grammar，寫下 composition 唔同，要比，國際學校的 english 比本地 english literature 課要求更高。

我又多口，不過可能你以為國際學校 english class 好少 (或冇)  literature，因此覺得可易 catch up。

nintendo

HKTHK 發表於 12-6-21 00:12
At the end of the day though, I don't worry much about English as I intend to send my kids abroad and am sure they will be fluent.  What I do worry about is Mandarin since they will have much less chance to use it when they go abroad.

香港有度好，就係多選擇；我一直覺得多幾間國制學校 (或 dss) 都係好事；不過家長真係要睇真 d  學校課程係唔係合自己期望。
如果學校話中學的英文程到可以同其他國制學校比，咁家長有一定要求都好合理，最怕係將課程太理想化，讀完六七年先知目標難達到，咁就真係喊都無謂。
你講到咁唔介意唔擔心，真係好豁達。的確，少 d 期望，少 d 失望。

HKTHK

回復 nintendo 的帖子

I think you misunderstood me and I should have made myself more clear.  Am aware of what a good high school English class is supposed to teach.  But when I was referring to studying Literature, I meant as a major in college.  Am sure any international school will have their students reading Shakespeare at some point.  The question I have is assuming one's English is good enough to read and enjoy Shakespeare on their own, isn't that good enough already?  Does it really matter whether one has read all the Shakespeare works (as opposed to some)?  Or that it was read at age 13 as opposed to age 16?

HKTHK

回復 nintendo 的帖子

Don't get me wrong, I want my kids to do well in life.  But I also think they need to find their interests in what they want to pursue and spend time on that.  And if it is not English or Chinese as a language (so that they can become a professor or a writer), then I really think it just need to be at a functional level so that they can use it as a tool.  I do like to read quite a bit and hope it will rub off on them over time as well.  What are your expectations on languages then?   

nintendo

HKTHK 發表於 12-6-21 11:32
回復 nintendo 的帖子

I think you misunderstood me and I should have made myself more clear.  Am awa ...

哈哈，我提莎翁作品，都係隨口 UP，因為多人識，其實都可以係 WALDEN。
我只係想說明，IS 的 english class 係有好多 literature component  的，唔係要鬥 D 乜野。
同一本 hamlet，一個 IS 學生和一個同齡的 LS 學生讀的深度會唔同，唔可以係話大家都睇過讀過，就算 IN PAR。
好似你話的 enjoy on their own 係一回事，認真咁對作品做 analysis  又係另一回事。

我的論點好簡單，我用 dgjs 做 bench mark  係因為佢地係本地少有的英文小學。
如果有學校話，佢地小學時主要用中文教 (即英文比例比 dgjs 少)，但將來中學英文水平會和其他國際學校相約 (即英文比 dgs 好)，作為一個 "聽眾"，我第一時間會問，點解可以咁有信心？
同時，我都想問，點解 dgs  唔敢講，話佢地 D 女仔英文可以同 IS 比 (講真，DGS 就真係有好多實例 D 英文好掂)。
係語文真係要浸的，唔係話可以咁易追上來。

為小朋友選擇學校，當然要多角度去看。
當然，你有信心，甚至你話唔 mind  孩之英文水平係點，我絕對尊重。
我唔係要話邊間學校唔好，但係真係好奇，想將一個可能好多家長都會有的疑問帶出黎，大家思考下。

HKTHK

Not sure if you are doing this unconsciously but there really is no need to belittle other people by presupposing that they don't understand how to properly appreciate a good book.  Analyzing a book's content, its author and its historical context, comparing and contrasting with other works of a similar genre or period are part and parcel of, what I mean by, reading and enjoying a book.  And I don't see why ISF students would not be able to do that.  I can't speak from personal experience yet since my children are still young but I do know that they are on track.  Would be interesting to compare notes again in 5 to 10 years.

You raised a valid question which is how can a school put in less time and still be at comparable standards.  I think several people, including myself, have told you repeatedly that it does appear that the objectives are being achieved and you simply keep re-raising the question without delving into the facts or the details.  Something that is theoretically difficult to do doesn't mean that it can't be done.

I am not saying that I don't mind my kids' English standards.  There was a period while she was in a local kindergarten that I noticed a sharp drop-off but it is now noticeably better at ISF and I am comfortable with where her English is now.  And I am confident since if things doesn't work out, I can spend more time and resources to get it right.

nintendo

HKTHK 發表於 12-6-21 13:48
Not sure if you are doing this unconsciously but there really is no need to belittle other people by ...

Noted.
Looks like any different views are not welcome.
Think I'd better keep quiet.

HKTHK

You are welcome to express your views and opinion and I have tried my utmost to keep this a civilized exchange.  It is condescending to presuppose others don't know what a proper English literature class is [though I just wanted to point it out and am not offended].  Would be nice if we can carry on a discussion that moves pass this is simply theoretically impossible to do given less time invested and really look at what is being done at the school and how its students are doing.

Will let other forum readers be the judge.

iamfine

The posts under this and the 條條大道通羅馬 forum give a Jekyll & Hyde kind of amusement.  Interesting.

bobbycheung

If ISF can achieve what other IS can do but with a lot less time, then personally I think the most likely explanation is that its teachers and teaching are better than those of the other IS and /or its students are better than than those in other IS.  I am not at odds with 條條大道通羅馬.  It's just that when ISF can achieve the same thing with a much shorter route, it would be interesting to find out exactly how they do it.  Perhaps this method could be applied to other subjects such as Chinese, maths...... as well.

annie40

哗! 原来大家仲未讲完.  个人只赞成鬼老孩子读ISF. 专攻Mandarin speaking and Chinese writing.   非常成功.  英语由家开始. 即自己home tutoring.

bobbycheung

annie40 發表於 12-6-21 17:36
哗! 原来大家仲未讲完.  个人只赞成鬼老孩子读ISF. 专攻Mandarin speaking and Chinese writing.   非常成 ...

我咁多口水, 有排都未講完  :)

Jane1983

我知道好多人覺得Nintendo講嘢吳啱聽，但佢講的確實是我最擔心的，亦幾有可能發生的。

tingtingting

原帖由 annie40 於 12-06-21 發表
哗! 原来大家仲未讲完.  个人只赞成鬼老孩子读ISF. 专攻Mandarin speaking and Chinese writing.   非常成 ...

Quite true. That's why I always say some parents are too "local" for some schools.

annie40

回復 bobbycheung 的帖子

你肯讲, 是帮了不少以为交低HK$1888. 就可以瘦身的家长.  那有这么便宜, 每天我要做10K运动, 才可以无甘走样.  广告是愈夸大, 愈岩听的. 10 秒, click 走皺纹......  神仙水? 非常岩听!