教育王國
標題: Top Schools [打印本頁]
作者: chifam 時間: 16-8-22 19:58 標題: Top Schools
any comments on this educational consultant company? As they charge a lot
作者: Katherinee 時間: 16-8-22 20:19 標題: 回覆：Top Schools
What service can they provide? How can they help in admission?
作者: chifam 時間: 16-8-22 22:15
Claimed to select a shortlist of schools which is most suitable for one kid.
作者: 964000 時間: 16-8-22 22:27 標題: 回覆：Top Schools
I think more suitable for expats who got no access to EK
they will also recommend newly set up schools.
作者: Babybaby2011 時間: 16-8-22 23:52 標題: 引用：I+think+more+suitable+for+expats+who+got
原帖由 964000 於 16-08-22 發表
I think more suitable for expats who got no access to EK they will also recommend newly set u ...
作者: pinkmania 時間: 16-8-23 07:50 標題: 回覆：chifam 的帖子
我覺得唔值
作者: type409 時間: 16-8-23 08:30 標題: 回覆：Top Schools
This agent is a parent in my kids' school. My 2 cents is - regardless whether you are expat or mainlander, just spend a couple of hours sitting down in front of the computer and google everything, read and filter the info. That's all you have to do. Their service is basically your time cost.
作者: lovecasey 時間: 16-8-23 08:33
回覆 chifam 的帖子
i agree it is basically tailored for expat which are new to HK. you wont find it very very helpful if u are local and have a basic understanding of the education system here and have time to fill up the application forms.
作者: 964000 時間: 16-8-23 09:57 標題: 引用：回覆+chifam+的帖子 i+agree+it+is+basica
原帖由 lovecasey 於 16-08-23 發表
回覆 chifam 的帖子
i agree it is basically tailored for expat which are new to HK. you wont find it ...
He praised the service is good and useful and I didn't dare to say anything. Well, there is always "need" there. I told my husband he is lucky I can handle it myself and saved him a buck.
作者: chifam 時間: 16-8-23 13:48
Thanks all for the advice. Agree that's save time for searching thru Internet. I am not sure if they claim there is connection with schools
作者: lovecasey 時間: 16-8-23 15:31
回覆 chifam 的帖子
i am sure there are some business connection as you can see there are few schools which she mentions more often and give positive feedback.
Sometimes you can find this forum is more useful as most of us are user of many IS.
作者: chifam 時間: 16-8-23 18:40
回覆 lovecasey 的帖子
Yes can't agree more
作者: dbchu 時間: 16-8-23 18:56 標題: 回覆：Top Schools
I think just like a wedding planner....
作者: 964000 時間: 16-8-23 19:39 標題: 引用：回覆+chifam+的帖子 i+am+sure+there+are+
原帖由 lovecasey 於 16-08-23 發表
回覆 chifam 的帖子
i am sure there are some business connection as you can see there are few school ...
作者: lameloiseFR 時間: 16-8-25 00:39
本帖最後由 lameloiseFR 於 16-9-2 14:01 編輯
Hi all
I am one of the customers of Top School and I understand that the concerns of you all. But I have to say something for the team at Top School as I do not find the comments fair.
1) I don't think their pricing structure is unreasonable and I have to say, their pricing is fair. Because of the Head Girl and her team, we did not have to crazily apply almost all the schools and kindergartens for our little one. That have already saved us a lot of money. As a customer, my husband and I are very particular and we did request how we would like the stage 1 fact finding report to be structured. The Head Girl was happy to tailor for us.
2) I do not think that their services are just for expats. I am a working mom. Grew up in HK and went abroad to study and work for many years. Came back three years ago. To be honest, there are so many changes in the education system in the last decades in HK and there are so many systems and curriculums offered by different schools in the city. Yes I could have done the homework myself. And we did a bit but it was indeed not enough. Without Ruth's help, I would not be able to narrow down the choices of schools for my little one.
3) We paid $8,800 for a first stage report. It is like a fact finding exercise but it saved us from applying a few schools that would have cost us more than $8,800. They don't take money for placement. what they could offer is to review application (which they did for one of my applications) and assist in preparing the assessment and interviews.
4) if not with Top School, my little one won't be at a playgroup and likely to be his kindergarten and pre nursery that fits so well for him. The Head Girl also facilitated us to see if we could change our assessment session with one of the through trained international school which normally it is difficult for parents to request so.
5) without their help, we also couldn't be realistic on the choice of the schools list. There are schools on her suggested list that we thought we would have no chance at all but it is not necessary the case and also vice versa.
作者: bforbtec 時間: 16-8-25 00:47
咁快出現打手
收得貴, 給人感覺好
父母就是最好的consultant
這些consultant 公司好快執
除了打手外, 無須努力為指控辯護
上網問多兩問, 好多真相出現
作者: jolalee 時間: 16-8-25 01:28
回覆 bforbtec 的帖子
咁客觀少少，lameloiseFR 又唔似係打手，都係 end user 嗜。樓主問有關Top School 的 service, 難得有人用過又肯分享，那是一件好事。如果父母工作忙碌又唔想煩，願意出錢找consultant, why not?
當然我都覺得自己無這方面的需要，而且讚同你所說，父母就是最好的consultants。不過每個父母最多咪兩、三個小孩返不同學校，不能把十間八間親身經歷咁cross compare。我自己也喜歡聽educators and tuition teachers的分享，因為他們見過不同學校出的學生，聽他們一席話，勝過爬文幾個鐘。
話說過來，consultants 都有他們主觀的地方，那間好那間不合適，(尤其是對很小的孩子) 其實很難作實。當然，consultants若與新學校有利益關係、幫助新校recruit，那更需要父母自己睇得通透。
總括來說，自己可以用心處理的，不需要consultants。 但時間若不夠用、或者對這方面的research真的很抗拒的，跌幾千元找人幫忙也未嘗不可。
作者: lameloiseFR 時間: 16-8-25 01:43
本帖最後由 lameloiseFR 於 16-9-2 14:02 編輯
Sounds like I am a vey lazy mom. Ok a few things.
1) Top School's team have to discuss with what we are after as parents and what and how we want the education need for our child to be. This does take time.
2) We went to all the school tours on the list recommended initially proposed by the Head Girl (not just new schools and to be honest, there was nil new school on the list) and those that were originally on our own list. We went to all the school tours before finalising the list with the Head Girl and her team and also submitting application. I am not sure if all the parents would go to a school tour before sending in an application. but we did.
3) the list recommended by the Head Girl is just a suggestion based on how we discussed our needs. It is down to us the parents to do all the work. The Head Girl did make a bit of comment to one of my applications but I did the drafting on each question that the particular school was after. No single consultant can help a parent to do so. The consultant can facilitate but it is still down to the parents to demonstrate how they believe in the school.
4) To get the best service out from them, the parents need to do some ground work. You will find the service absolutely not worth it if you just think that it is a fact finding or just to help you getting into one of the schools. Even between my husband and I do have different views and impression on what we need for our little one and how we perceive each of the schools.
5) on the topic of new schools, I don't think that their team does only recommend new schools. On the list that we got from Top Scchool's team, only one (out of 10) is a new school. That school ticks the box for various reasons and we expected that school to be on the list. On this point, Top School's service also serves as a validation check on the schools that my husband and I had in mind prior to engaging her team.
Some parents choose to hire helpers to do house chores. I choose to hire a consultant to facilitate in this area. Some moms may think choosing a school should be done by the parents. Yes we still are but just with some help. Rather I think education is in all aspects. We do not hire helpers so I do house chores with my little ones whenever I am home. I do all the story reading with him and I do many other things that a helper is likely to do. I may offend others but I just want to say, we all seek help here and there. Goodnight.
作者: Hongchu 時間: 16-8-25 09:15 標題: 回覆：Top Schools
I suppose this is the same like people like to have agency to help the kids for oversea studies whereas some would like to apply by themselves. Just 家家有求。
作者: lovecasey 時間: 16-8-25 09:32
To be fair..... Time is the issue here.. I spent hours and hours fillng up the applications and researching schools, i would not say i enjoy it and didnt like the pages of application form with all the personal statement. However, you would learn alot on the schools itself from doing the research which i dont think you can get from others' comments.
And last about 打手.... there is a 註冊時間and everyone can judge from it...
作者: canteen31 時間: 16-8-25 11:01 標題: 回覆：Top Schools
I don't really think Top Schools needs 打手in this forum. Most parents that researches in EK should be able to get most info they wanted. If not, paying someone to find the info seems logical.
作者: Saboc 時間: 16-8-25 11:51
Why not if I were rich and busy.
Even I were not busy and not good in research, I could still purchase her service . Fair deal
作者: lameloiseFR 時間: 16-8-25 11:54
本帖最後由 lameloiseFR 於 16-9-2 14:03 編輯
I had an account called Lamelosie but I could never used it to post comment. Lots of members in this forum got similar issues before and I therefore had to create a new account to post comment. As I used a UK phone number to register the old account, I could not reactivate it as I no longer have my UK number. Never mind, if you guys have already drawn the conclusion that I am here to give a fair comment as I am part of Top School team I am speechless. I am sharing as how I see them as a parent who used the service.
On the comment that learning a lot. of course, filling application is one way but not the only way. Going to school tours like I said, discussing our questions (and raising relevant questions) with consultants who are professional and really familiar with the education system is also another way.
Like any company CEO, I am sure they know decent amount of how the company is to make a conclusion but I doubt that they have to do every single details.
I just think that there are some accusations there to say they take money for placement isn't quite right and hence I made a comment. I have always been a silent member with this group with my other account. The Head Girl (who herself is also a mom) set up the business to bridge a gap needed in HK (may not be for everyone). If it is not for you, it is fine but I just don't find it fair to accuse them for something or make mean comments re their services or to those who have need for that. Every business is set up for a reason.
作者: nintendo 時間: 16-8-25 12:19
chifam 發表於 16-8-23 13:48 
Thanks all for the advice. Agree that's save time for searching thru Internet. I am not sure if they ...
Connections in what sense?
At my daughter's high school, a couple of teachers have really good connection with cambridge and oxford, and also NYU, Harvard, etc. They know a couple of admission people of these universities. In fact, it is quite common for international school university placement team to know university admission officers from well know universities. Because each year, they tour around asia.
Such connections may seem important but to be honest, this probably only means knowing the person, understanding the application procedures. etc. It does not mean Harvard would "give face" to the teachers at my daughter's school, and accept a student that does not meet admission requirement.
Well. "Connection" is an interesting word some people like to use.
作者: pinkmania 時間: 16-8-25 12:21 標題: 回覆：chifam 的帖子
我join 過 bronze plan, $8800.
我覺得佢地嘅advice 好superficial, 係一啲好容易喺internet 揾到嘅info.
有個staff (唔係ruth 本人) 同我傾一個鐘, 問下你覺得bilingual 重唔重要, location prefer 邊度. 跟住就出個school search report, list 晒差唔多所有IS, 比埋apply 嘅time frame, 學費/debenture等等.
再之後就安排下 school tour.
感覺上係會偏向sell 某幾間 (尤其新/就開嗰啲), 老牌嘅反而少. 當然只係我嘅感覺.
基本上無深入解釋每間嘅優劣, 有時問得specific 啲都不太答到.
呢個價錢係唔包填表的.
作者: nintendo 時間: 16-8-25 12:25
I personally do not think it is a great matter whether there are 打手.
To be honest, I am not surprised if there is 打手. But we are all adults. We have our own judgements. If a parent can be that easily influenced by a 打手, what else can we say. Good luck to her.
I think agents of this kind is merely providing services to parents. You give all personal and background details to them, they help you fill out the application forms etc. Just like a typical agent helping parents find a school overseas and getting the student visa done. So fair deal. They do work for you, you pay. Note that I do not think they can make it easier to get into certain international schools. You still need to go through the normal admission exams (especially for secondary schools).
If anyone tell you, you pay them, and they will make it easier to get a place, you might as well call ICAC at the same time.
作者: pinkmania 時間: 16-8-25 12:27 標題: 回覆：chifam 的帖子
對於唔熟識香港/唔識中文/太忙嘅家庭,都有佢嘅作用嘅.
作者: nintendo 時間: 16-8-25 12:36
本帖最後由 nintendo 於 16-8-25 12:38 編輯
pinkmania 發表於 16-8-25 12:21
感覺上係會偏向sell 某幾間 (尤其新/就開嗰啲), 老牌嘅反而少
That is actually quite what I expected.
Well established international schools already have like hundreds of applicants on their waiting list. So your chance to get a place is very slim.
They thus mainly suggest less popular or newer schools as these schools probably are not in full capacity and you probably have no problem getting an offer of place.
The of course want 100% success rate so of course they would suggest less popular schools.
Sounds like I can start my own business as an agent too.
I will not charge $8800. I will charge only half.:)
"呢個價錢係唔包填表的"
So you paid $8800 for a list of schools?
Wow.
作者: dbchu 時間: 16-8-25 12:37 標題: 回覆：Top Schools
如果我講明唔要新校，咁佢short list左嘅老牌學校係包入到？入唔到佢幫到手？如果幫唔到嘅，佢只係一個簡化版嘅 search 功能？
作者: nintendo 時間: 16-8-25 12:51
"4) if not with Ruth's advice, my little one won't be at a playgroup and likely to be his kindergarten and pre nursery that fits so well for him."
Hey, wait.
We are talking about paying $8800 for playgroup admission?
I thought I was expecting something like HKIS or CIS, or at least ISF ICS.
作者: 964000 時間: 16-8-25 13:15 標題: 引用：回覆+bforbtec+的帖子 咁客觀少少，lamelo
原帖由 jolalee 於 16-08-25 發表
回覆 bforbtec 的帖子
咁客觀少少，lameloiseFR 又唔似係打手，都係 end user 嗜。樓主問有關Top School ...
作者: lameloiseFR 時間: 16-8-25 14:43
本帖最後由 lameloiseFR 於 16-8-25 22:59 編輯
回覆 nintendo 的帖子
Haha yeah I probably didn't explain well.
You paid $8,800 for a school report. Their service is on their website, take a look.
I am not sure how other clients communicate with Top School. I had three amazing meetings with Ruth. It cleared a lot of our questions. The shortlisted school is for primary application. There are old schools on it. The list is based on what our criteria are.
The report does help in a way that filters and validates our own shortlist. Now we are working towards how we could position ourselves to be accepted by those schools. Again, top school is not paid for helping clients to get a placement. Sorry and I am not paying someone to do that neither.
The playgroup is just an additional advice that we got. We were with another playgroup but didn't feel my boy enjoyed it much even lots of parents do praise about that here and there. We therefore discussed with Ruth on whether there were any other options that we could consider. She proposed a few. We took our little one to two of them and we were and still are happy with one of them. There are so many playgroups and I am not interested to take my boy to try out all the playgroups in town.
P.S. On your comment to start an agency, yeah, why not? This is a free market after all. All the best. Cheers.
作者: nintendo 時間: 16-8-25 16:39
Great. You have already made your point. Happy for you.
作者: 紅紅 時間: 16-8-25 23:03 標題: 回覆：Top Schools
各取所需啫。
對有d人來講時間就係金錢，睇少眼都上落億億聲，咁比幾萬蚊揾agent完全合理吖！
我自己都好怕填form，如果我大把錢都可能會比錢人賺呢！可惜我冇，唯有自己搞咋！
作者: Jane1983 時間: 16-8-25 23:31
其實錢多，跌左都費事執，咁真係無所謂，反正一定無害。但你話值唔值得，我唔會使呢d錢。
始終由零開始去了解，一步步篩選心儀學校，係一個必須的過程，家長需要呢個心路歷程，去為自己寶貝揀一間最適合佢的學校。
作者: happy.rita 時間: 16-8-26 09:44 標題: 引用：其實錢多，跌左都費事執，咁真係無所謂，反
原帖由 Jane1983 於 16-08-25 發表
其實錢多，跌左都費事執，咁真係無所謂，反正一定無害。但你話值唔值得，我唔會使呢d錢。
始終由零開始去 ...
作者: sunflower_mama 時間: 16-8-26 11:17
Love this forum, i can find anything here. I agree with some of the above. I spent almost 6 months researching for best mandarin schools for my child, along with where he will be happy as a shy kids. I originally applied for about 15 schools super expensive application fee, in the end i am so tired of it, I just asked Ruth for a report, her research result is really good. I would say my research result after 6 months is similar to what she had, the thing is i wasn't too sure about my decision. She then connected me to parents from the few schools I was applying, then I realized that my boy would never be happy, some parents are so aggressive, and my boy will be bullied etc. For anyone who is looking at hiring Ruth, I would recommend Ruth for three reasons:
1. it saved me time as it is expert opinion right away rather than me keep researching - super tired of it, and the more tired, the more overwhelming it gets ugh!
2. it saved me money as i stopped applying for more schools, some of these application fees are too crazy, and they re not regulated by EDB, I felt like it is too many parents applying for them that's why they kept on raising it, so unfair.
3. She personalizes requests, and she knows so many parents and she can connect you to any parents at any school. At the end of the day, whatever the school says doesn't matter, it comes down to the student and parent community culture. You can go to the top academic school, but the culture may not be suitable for your child, and also your child's personality may not be suitable for that school. I know my older boy is only suitable for a few schools, verse my younger boy who is more outgoing maybe more suitable for different schools.
All in all, if you will spend lots of time, and lots of money to apply, think about a trusted agency isn't a bad idea. You can always book a few hours with her, which is what i did, so it is less money and try out her expertise.
作者: pinkmania 時間: 16-8-26 13:33 標題: 回覆：happy.rita 的帖子
yes, that's the school recommended to me also
作者: 宮二 時間: 16-8-27 11:08 標題: 回覆：Top Schools
我諗法是，揾唔揾consultants, 就如去旅行一樣，總有些人一定要參加package tour, 行程玩食住都要有專人安排妥當；
另也有人鐘意自由行，永遠不會參加package tour，行程撞板當體驗，也可能更花時間金錢，但總算全是自由自主地選擇適合自己的
作者: hkparent 時間: 16-8-27 13:27 標題: 引用：我諗法是，揾唔揾consultants,+就如去旅行
原帖由 宮二 於 16-08-27 發表
我諗法是，揾唔揾consultants, 就如去旅行一樣，總有些人一定要參加package tour, 行程玩食住都要有專人安 ...
作者: 紅紅 時間: 16-8-27 23:28 標題: 回覆：Top Schools
其實用consultant唔代表家長not care，0involvement。
Consultant作用是shortlisting, 之後多數家長會深入了解shortlist 咗的學校先決定。
我冇用agent, 但比著我會咁用，唔使講到用agent就唔care子女吧！
作者: hackhack 時間: 16-9-1 01:59
找學校還是要親力親為的，多了解，多看，多參與，香港就那麼小，找IS還要school consultant？不如你找我吧，會給你更中立的意見。 家長如果真的因為忙而找consultant，應該不會看到這個thread，還會回應吧。教育是一個大學問，不要以為俾左錢就得到好的，力不到不為財，教育亦然。
作者: Jane1983 時間: 16-9-1 07:54
幾年前，有聽過有外國護照的大陸朋友，搵agent幫兩個小朋友安排去英國讀寄宿學校，費用50萬。唔熟行情，不過覺得幾貴。
作者: 964000 時間: 16-9-1 08:49 標題: 引用：幾年前，有聽過有外國護照的大陸朋友，搵ag
原帖由 Jane1983 於 16-09-01 發表
幾年前，有聽過有外國護照的大陸朋友，搵agent幫兩個小朋友安排去英國讀寄宿學校，費用50萬。唔熟行情，不 ...
好似來港生仔，醫院埋單只是五萬，但佢地係比緊十幾廿萬中介人。
作者: nintendo 時間: 16-9-1 18:50
hackhack 發表於 16-9-1 01:59
家長如果真的因為忙而找consultant，應該不會看到這個thread，還會回應吧。
Hey. Do not poke the balloon.
Yep, these busy parents did not have time to search for a school, yet have the time come to EK.
Funny.
作者: nintendo 時間: 16-9-1 18:52
Jane1983 發表於 16-9-1 07:54
幾年前，有聽過有外國護照的大陸朋友，搵agent幫兩個小朋友安排去英國讀寄宿學校，費用50萬。唔熟行情，不 ...
Well, because they are not familiar with that place.
Many people pay agents to find or apply schools overseas.
I think that is fine.
作者: 964000 時間: 16-9-1 23:35
hackhack 發表於 16-9-1 01:59
家長如果真的因為忙而找consultant，應該不會看到這個thread，還會回應吧。 ...
作者: beekay 時間: 16-9-2 03:39 標題: 回覆：hackhack 的帖子
Oh get real!
You really think EK can help with "real international school search"? This place is predominantly about ESF schools ( and ESF schools of Kowloon, NT or at most QBS) and other Kowloon and NT so called international schools. There have been some questions about some of those more reputable international schools the old money families favour, but not much response given here. Even if you ask about ESF schools such as Bradbury, Glenealy or the Peak School, how much response do you actually get? Or how much real help do you get?
Even info about different debenture, capital notes, nomination rights are sometimes misleading.
Well, if you are really serous about getting into the real international schools, and have some money to spend, you should not really expect something useful here and very often if you really trust the info here, you would even be misled. No offend to some loyal fans here. Fairly speaking, I think if you are looking for info of the Kowloon and NT EFS schools, or those international schools with mostly local families, then I guess you do get a lot from here.
If you really know this place well and know what Top Schools can help, you will know the reasons why some people are willing to pay for the service eventually.
Yes, the Top school clients would still see this thread, why not? Many who thought this place could help but after a few walks in this place and decided to send money to Ruth eventually. They may still come back here once in a while for entertaining reads. The thread title caught their eyeballs as they would also like to 8 about what people here say about the service they used.
Top school never promises successful admission. If you are expecting for a guaranteed admission to schools like CIS, German S, ISF, or HKIS....by paying 40K to the agent, you obviously do not know how money in HK is spent. Get real! A guaranteed of interview chance at ESF schools already costs you 500K HK$ (400K for its PIS).
作者: hkparent 時間: 16-9-2 09:25 標題: 引用：Oh+get+real!+ You+really+think+EK+can+he
原帖由 beekay 於 16-09-02 發表
Oh get real!
You really think EK can help with "real international school search"? This place is pr ...
For real international schools with many expatriate families (at least in primary and lower secondary), those on my list are HKIS, GSIS, AISHK, CDNIS, some ESF schools on HK Island, Kellet, Harrow, each following the curriculum of a particular country.
We see many threads in EK on RC, CAIS, ESF schools in NT and Kowloon, ISF, Kingston, Think, KCIS, CIS (I doubt how many expatriates they have), etc. Those are dominated by local families with or without foreign passports.
作者: lameloiseFR 時間: 16-9-2 11:27
本帖最後由 lameloiseFR 於 16-9-2 13:59 編輯
回覆 beekay 的帖子
well put (but i do believe that lots of parents here can afford to go to real international schools but probably choose not to). thanks so much, and hence I put my money to TopSchool.
作者: lameloiseFR 時間: 16-9-2 11:30
本帖最後由 lameloiseFR 於 16-9-2 14:00 編輯
回覆 hkparent 的帖子
indeed, and the list that the consultants put together for me, do include all those traditional international schools (for applying their kindergarten/primary school sections).
PS. I do believe that all walks of life do use EK, but just that some choose to be silent for most cases and some choose to read with full faith particularly when it comes to school info while some do form their own views. To be honest, I see lots of parents use the term "good" in describing certain schools in here. However, what do we mean by good? Good for one family may not be that for another family. When views are presented by parents, most of the cases, there are emotions attached to them. With a consultant, normally views are more neutral.
作者: lameloiseFR 時間: 16-9-2 12:29
本帖最後由 lameloiseFR 於 16-9-2 12:31 編輯
964000 發表於 16-9-1 08:49
佢地大把銭，英文一般，預了比人
好似來港生仔，醫院埋單只是五萬，但佢地係比緊十幾廿萬中介人。
...
yes, they probably have earned decent amount of money. To be fair, some of them do speak English very proficiently, and even better than lots of the locals here. Even I spent more than 10 years abroad, I sometimes do find my English appalling when I work with my counterparts in Shanghai/Beijing/southern part of China.
作者: Cara2006 時間: 16-9-2 13:07
Is EK going to put an end to this topic?
I thought EK does not allowed company names or personal names to be mentioned?
Or has EK accepted advertising fees from this company?
作者: 召藥師 時間: 16-9-2 17:54
上FORUM討論及分享不分新舊註冊會員，如果有懷疑，請按舉報通知管理團隊，管理員同版主會作出調查。如果有違規宣傳，一定會處理。謝謝!
作者: Jayelle 時間: 16-9-4 01:10
Based on my observation, they're mainly for expat family moving to hk in a short period of time. They always give advice to parents in fb group, even if they clearly don't need professional consultancy service.
作者: Jayelle 時間: 16-9-4 01:19
beekay 發表於 16-9-2 03:39
Oh get real!
You really think EK can help with "real international school search"? This place is pr ...
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