校際音樂節鋼琴示範光碟

RMA

kcarol,

haha, 好多人都知架, 西崎...

唔知呢, 咁 technical o既錄音問題我唔識，但我覺得佢地整體 quality 真係幾差呢。

不過如果大家 defend 佢話佢o既理想係大眾化呢，我冇乜野講，因為要做理想，同現實係會有距離o既。

但唸深一層 quality 係咁樣，學生聽左的確係有反效果。

RMA

JP,

而家我學生通常都會用 digital recorder, 手提電話等 equipment 錄我彈琴... 冇錢收最驚佢賣比人添 (hehe 講笑啫， 邊有資格 publish / 出 cd 呀...)

但我唔否認 '身 demo'，係好過聽 cd.

kcarol

RMA
佢地既錄音係好雞既, 不過真係大部份學生都分唔到囉
但講歌呢... 真係一dd, 佢地有時都搵到勁人, 果d應該係經典!!

warrrren

Hi Kcarol,

學生聽左的確係有反效果

That's interesting.  I am listening to a very very old recording of Kreisler right now (recorded in the 20's).  The sound quality is really appalling, but I enjoy every bit of it.  For the benefit of the students, could you please name the Naxos CDs that you think the students should stay away.

BTW, what 反效果 are you talking about?

Regards,
Warrrren

kcarol

呢個唔係我講架, 係rma 講架

rma 快d 黎解畫啦~~~~~

kcarol

Warrrren
我會覺得學生聽無乜大問題

不過佢地有一部份既recording 真係唔係好岩style, 呢個應該係performer 既責任多d

st.bintai

kcarol 寫道:
RMA
佢地既錄音係好雞既, 不過真係大部份學生都分唔到囉
但講歌呢... 真係一dd, 佢地有時都搵到勁人, 果d應該係經典!!

好難既    

個鋼琴個粒音彈唔到出來就即時 cut 左   violin 錄得差 d 都仲有粒音去拖   鋼琴真係唔得

我都唔比小朋友聽    搵 Telrac 碟又難    炒到貴哂  

kcarol

st.bintai
佢地難極, 都叫做有d經典作品呀嘛~~~     

st.bintai

kcarol 寫道:
st.bintai
佢地難極, 都叫做有d經典作品呀嘛~~~     

咁又系

RMA

kcarol,

你話佢地有時會搵到勁人，但 piano o既 cd，我就真係唔覺得有。其他o既 genre 我都唔會買 naxos. 雖然佢地係平，但唔係叫超值...

warrrren,

In terms of the interpretation and style of many performer Naxos invited, I am sorry but have to conclude that their impact in solo piano works are rather unsatisfactory.

When you listen to some of their publications (popular repertoire such as Mozart Sonatas and Bach's WTC),  you'll find the artists are not really up to standard to provide an exemplary performance to kids/youngsters for studies.

When students are not experienced to judge the musicality, listening to these Naxos CDs and merely copying would be a serious  '反效果'.

kcarol

RMA
我無掃過佢地既catalogue, 不過佢地真係有搵勁人既, 可能solo piano少d, orchestral 果d, 我見佢地可以搵埋london phil. 同埋st.martin in the field, 都唔少野架, 不過piano 我見得最多既係idill birett彈

warrrren

Morning RMA,

你話佢地有時會搵到勁人，但 piano o既 cd，我就真係唔覺得有。其他o既 genre 我都唔會買 naxos. 雖然佢地係平，但唔係叫超值...

warrrren,

In terms of the interpretation and style of many performer Naxos invited, I am sorry but have to conclude that their impact in solo piano works are rather unsatisfactory.

When you listen to some of their publications (popular repertoire such as Mozart Sonatas and Bach's WTC), you'll find the artists are not really up to standard to provide an exemplary performance to kids/youngsters for studies.

When students are not experienced to judge the musicality, listening to these Naxos CDs and merely copying would be a serious '反效果'.

I am more a violin guy than a piano person.  I am sure that you know the major piano works better than I do and would be grateful if you can enlighten me on this.  Here is a link to some of the pinao pieces in the Naxos Historial: http://naxos.com/mainsite/default.asp?label=NaxosHistorical&active=sqlcat&Title1=Numerical%20Catalogue&Title2=Great%20Pianists&InParam=((class_code='ZCC'))

Which performance in this catalogue is "sub-standard" and will leave a '反效果' if listen to?  I accept that the Naxos recordings may not be on par with others from a HiFi fan's point of view, but, are you serious when you say that listening to the recordings of Janis, Rachmaninov, Cortot, Rubinstein, Solomon, Horowitz, Moiseiwitsch... is bad for the students?  As you mentioned the Well-Tempered Clavier, the review of the performance by Jando is:

"Jando is an eminently sane, no-nonsense in total control throughout, who phrases perceptively and gives each movement real character. He is devoid of mannerisms and eccentricities, with a feeling for period style" - Gramophone Editors Choice February 1998.

I am not a fan of Naxos.  My favourites are Biddulph, the Testament, EMI Classics, Russia Revelation and DG (though I am still angry with DG for them dropping Shaham for Benedetti).  I have no commercial interest whatsoever in Naxos.  The point that I am making is Naxos has done a lot in promoting classical music and made music more readily available to the less well off.  Instead of spending $200 or more on a Telrac or Bidduph, people can buy 3 or 4 Naxos CDs and enjoy as much music.

Let's enjoy the music.

Regards,
Warrrren

st.bintai

warrrren 寫道:
Morning RMA,

[quote]你話佢地有時會搵到勁人，但 piano o既 cd，我就真係唔覺得有。其他o既 genre 我都唔會買 naxos. 雖然佢地係平，但唔係叫超值...

warrrren,

In terms of the interpretation and style of many performer Naxos invited, I am sorry but have to conclude that their impact in solo piano works are rather unsatisfactory.

When you listen to some of their publications (popular repertoire such as Mozart Sonatas and Bach's WTC), you'll find the artists are not really up to standard to provide an exemplary performance to kids/youngsters for studies.

When students are not experienced to judge the musicality, listening to these Naxos CDs and merely copying would be a serious '反效果'.

I am more a violin guy than a piano person.  I am sure that you know the major piano works better than I do and would be grateful if you can enlighten me on this.  Here is a link to some of the pinao pieces in the Naxos Historial: http://naxos.com/mainsite/default.asp?label=NaxosHistorical&active=sqlcat&Title1=Numerical%20Catalogue&Title2=Great%20Pianists&InParam=((class_code='ZCC'))

Which performance in this catalogue is "sub-standard" and will leave a '反效果' if listen to?  I accept that the Naxos recordings may not be on par with others from a HiFi fan's point of view, but, are you serious when you say that listening to the recordings of Janis, Rachmaninov, Cortot, Rubinstein, Solomon, Horowitz, Moiseiwitsch... is bad for the students?  As you mentioned the Well-Tempered Clavier, the review of the performance by Jando is:

"Jando is an eminently sane, no-nonsense in total control throughout, who phrases perceptively and gives each movement real character. He is devoid of mannerisms and eccentricities, with a feeling for period style" - Gramophone Editors Choice February 1998.

I am not a fan of Naxos.  My favourites are Biddulph, the Testament, EMI Classics, Russia Revelation and DG (though I am still angry with DG for them dropping Shaham for Benedetti).  I have no commercial interest whatsoever in Naxos.  The point that I am making is Naxos has done a lot in promoting classical music and made music more readily available to the less well off.  Instead of spending $200 or more on a Telrac or Bidduph, people can buy 3 or 4 Naxos CDs and enjoy as much music.

Let's enjoy the music.

Regards,
Warrrren
[/quote]


naxo 唔洗一定搵人 perform, 佢可以同發行商傾買版權再 dup.    所以下次買牒記得睇背面 d 字仔, 有寫係咪翻 dup  

kcarol

甘d翻版好抵喎!!

warrrren

Hi kcarol,

同發行商傾買版權再 dup =  翻版?  Can't follow your logic.

Let me give you a real life example.  I happen to have a Naxos disc with me - Naxos Historial 8.110990.  It consists of three violin sonatas - Beethoven Sonata no.9 (Heifetz + Moiseiwitsh), Brahms sonata no.3 (Heifetz + Kapell) and Franck Sonata in A (Heifetz + Rubinstein).  The Beethoven and Brahms Sonatas were transferred from RCA LP pressings, while the Franck came from a pre-war Victor "Gold" label set of 78 rpm shellac discs.  An original RCA LP of the Beethoven and Brahms in good condition is rare will cost you a stack of bank notes (if you can find one), and the Victor shellac discs are even more rare (and of course they cannot be played on modern machines).  Naxos went through all the trouble to purchase the rights to release these recordings in CD format from RCA and Victor, employed a good engineer (Mark Obert-Thorn) to do the remastering and transfer, and let people have a CD of the three great sonatas by four great musicians for around HK$60.  It deserves all the praises and I have my hat off to it.

Kind regards,
Warrrren

kcarol

Warrrren
我既意思係佢買左人既copyright, 跟住dup 落自己d disc 落release 出去, 佢有無remaster 過我就唔清楚, 不過正如你講, 佢買左人既copyright 再發行出去, 係真係平好多

NM

RMA:
I am just curious to know how many Naxos piano recordings you have heard in order to draw that no-impact conclusion. While Warrren had touched on the historical side and non-piano side of things, please allow me to introduce to you what Naxos has done with respect to the modern perspective of the intrument of your expertise, ie the piano (and I am in no way affiliated to Naxos, except I beg a third opinion to be heard).

If you want impact: Naxos was one of the pioneering labels (and probably the only one back then) that was brave enough to save many neglected piano works and piano composers from oblivion. I guess I don't need to point out what works and which composers - I'm sure you will know as you are so familiar with the piano repertoire.

If you want good pianists that have made an impact on the repertoire: what about Scherbakov on Godowsky? Zarafiants on Scriabin? Austbo on Messiaen? Martin on Alkan (well.. not all, but it *was* a milestone)? Jando on Beethoven? Biret on Brahms? Roscoe on Szymanowski? Paik on Prokofiev? Also, have you given their on-going Liszt and Scarlatti projects any try? I'm sure you will be very satisfied with all these.

I'm not saying Naxos always produces good recordings - I've come across sub-par products in Naxos as often as I have from say, a DG, a Decca, a Sony, a Hyperion, a Chandos, a Danacord, an ECM, a Harmonia Mundi, or a BIS. What makes Naxos really stand out from the crowd, besides their huge repertoire and artist line-up, is their devotion. If you want to understand more, I encourage to you to read last issue of Gramophone where you can find more information about this Label of the Year recepient.

I just hope teachers will deliver a very important message to students that just because a pianist's name is lesser known (to the teacher, or to the place where the teacher lives), that shouldn't stop them from exploring new composers, works, and interpretations.

RMA 寫道:
kcarol,

你話佢地有時會搵到勁人，但 piano o既 cd，我就真係唔覺得有。其他o既 genre 我都唔會買 naxos. 雖然佢地係平，但唔係叫超值...

warrrren,

In terms of the interpretation and style of many performer Naxos invited, I am sorry but have to conclude that their impact in solo piano works are rather unsatisfactory.

When you listen to some of their publications (popular repertoire such as Mozart Sonatas and Bach's WTC),  you'll find the artists are not really up to standard to provide an exemplary performance to kids/youngsters for studies.

When students are not experienced to judge the musicality, listening to these Naxos CDs and merely copying would be a serious  '反效果'.

Contrapunctus

本來打左一大篇，但都係慳番啖氣

我只有四個字想講

不學無術

Charitymami

kcarol,  

我根據你給我的資料打電話去問, 但對方話係 DVD, 何司能彈的, 是包括各級鋼琴 solo, 我問她有冇 VCD, 對方答"冇"。

記得之你提及過 DVD 是 for teacher, 而 VCD 是 for student 參考用。

其實隻 VCD 是否值得購買?   

kcarol

Charitymami
vcd & dvd 都係何司能教授彈既, 不過要vcd 既話, 就一定要買埋dvd

佢點解答你無我就真係答唔到你原因啦, 因為我d學生都係purchase vcd 既, 仲已經deliver 埋到屋企啦

vcd 我無睇過, 不過我d 學生feedback 番黎唔係好受, 大家都嫌唔夠詳盡, 同埋成個production 既剪接做得唔好, 好多睇完番黎問我""隻碟其實係唔係仲有野既, 點解好似俾人cut 左甘既!?! ""

dvd 我就睇左, 基本既分析都有, 但係無完整既demo, 對我黎講, 呢個係好大既weakness, 因為regardless 學生定教師, 都會希望睇到完整既performance