你地既寶寶係學中文定英文先?

shadeslayer

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 12-12-28 發表
The current first language of Hongkong is Cantonese, not Chinese, even the Hongkong government only  ...

請Google 或 wiki 一下，所有 reference to the languages of Chinese 也包括廣東話，上海話等，這些方言有幾千年歷史不能叫中文？只 standardize 左一百年左右的普通話才有資格叫中文？

Who gives YOU the right to monopolize the meaning of Chinese?

廣東話唔叫中文，唔通叫西文？

香港政府的網業寫：香港的法定語文是中文和英文。難道香港政府寫錯，你 FattyDaddy 啱？等我話比香港政府知，佢地走不出 provincial mindset先。

囝囝爸

英文在新加坡是官方、社會應用、學習第一語言。當然是學得有效，也不存在英中強弱問題。

香港官方、社會應用、學習以何語為重。中英小學中學比率如何？如何平衡？

如有風險影響，不會是始自今天。再想一問，有什麼「重大」風險和影響？

shadeslayer

囝囝爸  達標有不同標準，小學學到native外語也是要求標準。所以踏實因人而異、因時而異、因變而異、因辯而異！  發表於 1 小時前

Xxxxxx

嘻，咁你唔好講：李光耀比你踏實得多，他專教專學普通話幾十年都覺未達標。

shadeslayer

原帖由 samuel89 於 12-12-28 發表
首先, 要介定英文表達能力 / 中文表達能力

大陸學生，以前中學才學英文，現在小三已學，過多幾年，小一學，香港優勢愈來愈小。如果香港還不思進取，抱殘守缺，信甚麼真言英文要靠背，默書要 IPA，游泳不出汗，香港平均英文仲好勁等，下場係好快死得。

FattyDaddy

shadeslayer 發表於 12-12-28 17:37
Who gives YOU the right to monopolize the meaning of Chinese?...

Haha, it is not me who define what is Chinese, it is a country called China and and the international community defining what it is, and what you and I and even the Hongkong government think are largely irrelevant.

Picture this, when China's ambassador to the UN addresses the assembly in Chinese, what would he/she speak in? When he/she hears Chinese translation through the earpiece, what do you think he/she would hear?

Closer to home, lets say a foreign company was setting up shop in Hongkong and was hiring a local GM, and had to choose between 2 candidates, a Singaporean and a Hongkonger, both claimed to speak Chinese, and the Hongkonger (could be you too) went one step further to declare "Chinese is his/her mother tongue". The foreigner boss, a poor sod fresh off the banana boat didn't have a clue and believed the Hongkonger and hired him/her. First day at work the boss asked the new hire to phone all the major customers in China to say hello, and what a shock the boss got when it was revealed that 9 out of 10 customers in China couldn't understand the new hire's "Chinese".

Feel free to indulge in your little cyberspace comfort zone and relish on little tidbits of agreeable information you manage to scrape from it, too bad the real world doesn't work that way. Does the Hongkong government have a provincial mindset? YOU BET

akys

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暫時看到全部都係你的想法。其實中國有沒有法律或其他大官說過閩南話，廣東話，上海話， 潮州話等不能稱為中文或Chinese Language。另外，國內官方好像用Putonghua普通話作為官方語言。

FattyDaddy

akys 發表於 12-12-28 23:39
其實中國有沒有法律或其他大官說過閩南話，廣東話，上海話， 潮州話等不能稱為中文或Chinese Language。 ...

"Chinese language" is not the same as "Chinese", just like an "Indian language" could be Punjabi or Gujarati or Tamil or Bengali, but as far as India and the international community is concerned, speaking "Indian" means speaking Hindi.

廣東話，上海話， 潮州話, they are 粵語，滬語，閩語, they are "Chinese languages" 中國(的)語文, but that is not the same as "Chinese" 中文.

Honestly, i don't see why we are even having this discussion, if Hongkongers think Cantonese is "Chinese", I suggest they go to China speaking Cantonese and see how far they can go.

shadeslayer

中國語文 =/= 中文...

伙頭軍....伙頭軍....

akys

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始終都是個人觀點，我明白了。

FattyDaddy

akys 發表於 12-12-29 01:39
我不如做預言師，看看幾時溫室效應惡化， 核戰, 地磁轉移，隕石撞擊，政黨下台，世界末日好過。

If you have nothing better to do with your time, feel free to speculate on armageddon and kingdom come as much as you like, but Hongkong being a part of China is here and now.

Sure, you can ignore that too andnever go beyond LoWu, then you can continue to think Cantonese is not merely a Chinese language but Chinese itself {:1_1:}

shadeslayer

FattyDaddy 發表於 12-12-29 01:54
If you have nothing better to do with your time, feel free to speculate on armageddon and kingdom co ...

Hong Kong government supports my view by saying Chinese and English are the official languages of Hong Kong in their government web site.  Who supports you other than yourself?  I wonder who lives in a dream world.

shadeslayer

FattyDaddy  Haha, yes yes, please ignore China and the international community, believe in the HK government, you have just demonstrated what is a provincial mindset   發表於 3 小時前

xxxxxxx

I did not want to respond to you because I felt like talking to a wall.  But I will try one more time and hope you stop bugging us with this non sense.

Obviously you don't know the difference between Standard Chinese (Mandarin) and Chinese.

You contrived examples like UN discussions, go speak Cantonese in China, 92% Chinese people don't understand Cantonese, etc demonstrate that Mandarin is the standard language in China.  But not "the term Chinese cannot be used to describe Cantonese."

You see, you have this statement

"Cantonese is not Chinese", or
"廣東話唔叫中文"

But when asked to explain and provide evidence, you gave examples like

"UN discussion",
"Speak Cantonese in mainland China"

These are example to support Mandarin being the standard language of Chinese.  We all know that, like mothers are women.  Your examples do not support your statement "Cantonese is not Chinese".

======================
Let me show you how this should be done.  I have a statement

"Cantonese can be called Chinese"

If you asked me why did I say that, I demonstrate evidences/references from different sources to "support" my statement, including the HK Government, not contrived examples:

1. http://www.gov.hk/en/about/abouthk/facts.htm

Chinese and English are the official languages of Hong Kong. English is widely used in the Government and by the legal, professional and business sectors.

2. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Chinese?s=t

"Chinese"....any of the Chinese languages, which vary among themselves to the point of mutual unintelligibility.

3. www.chinalanguage.com/

Chinese (漢語) comprises of seven main dialects, Mandarin (官話), Cantonese (廣州話, 廣府話), Hakka (客家話), Wu (吳語), Min (閩語), Xiang (湘語), and Gan (贛語) (Fig. 1). ........

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language

Chinese is distinguished by its high level of internal diversity, although all varieties of Chinese are tonal and analytic. There are between 7 and 13 main regional groups of Chinese (depending on classification scheme),

============

I hope you understand you have "nothing" to support your statement while I have plenty to support my statement.  Until you can find an article, a Chinese government statement, a research paper, a dictionary definition, etc which says "Cantonese cannot be called Chinese" then come back to bug us.  Otherwise, can you stop torturing everybody here by your nonsense.

shadeslayer

點評


FattyDaddy  Hohoho, been scraping around in cyberspace again? Just go to China and speak your CHINESE and see how far you can go, will you?   發表於 4 小時前

Xxxxxx

I replied seriously in the last message with proof from the HK SAR government, wiki,  dictionary, etc which all have a view opposite to yours:

Chinese comprises dialects.

And your only response is again the "Hohoho, how far can you go" response. How far can you go argument proves Mandarin is the standard Chinese in China. Where is the link of this to your statement "Cantonese cannot be called Chinese?" Since when words have one and only one meaning?

Why did you feel the urge to respond at all if all you did was to reuse your useless argument?

Do you even respect a discussion?  

laorenjia

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Shadeslayer

假期完打開EK，仲以為啱啱過嘅係復活節。又見你果如囝囝爸所言，四處火頭，咁就唔爭在我落井下石踩多脚。

肥爸爸由頭到尾都冇用中文，我思疑佢唔識中文。你同個唔識中文嘅抝中文係乜，係咪嘥鬼氣？

就算你要佢抝，你同人拗咁耐，有冇搞清對方講嘅Chinese嘅定義先？佢講嘅Chinese，唔係你同我講嘅中文，而係口語叫普通話，書面語叫規範漢語嘅嘢。根據咁嘅定義，莫講廣東話唔係中文，上海話、四川話、北京土話，以致蒙文、藏文，回文全部都唔係中文。文言文、中國古四大名著、繁體字，通通唔係用規範漢語寫嘅，通通都唔叫Chinese。咁多人陪，你有乜好驚？唔識普通話，佢話行唔到好遠，呢樣係真嘅。你唔見中共第一代領導人就係咁樣成日踎係中南海，同身邊伙記講嘢都要翻譯員咩？你應佢一句「係呀，普通話真係好緊要！」咪得囉，你唔駛驚阿振英哥聽咗佢講就諗住去改基本法第九條喎。

你慳啖氣同囝囝爸抝重好啦。講時講，我撑囝囝爸。

FattyDaddy

shadeslayer 發表於 12-12-29 12:21
I replied seriously in the last message with proof from the HK SAR government, wiki,  dictionary, etc

Haha, you seriously think these are "proofs"?

Proof of the pudding is in the eating, so prove your "Chinese" by going to China and find out how far you can get, not by staying up all night scraping that cyberspace barrel.

shadeslayer

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 12-12-29 發表
Haha, you seriously think these are "proofs"?

Proof of the pudding is in the eating, so prove your  ...

You need to take all night to research something I posted?  They were the first few links of a google search, 2 minutes top.

Evidence is there, say something new or discussion is over.

FattyDaddy

laorenjia 發表於 12-12-29 13:36
蒙文、藏文，回文全部都唔係中文。文言文、中國古四大名著、繁體字，通通唔係用規範漢語寫嘅，通通都唔叫Chinese

I hope you know the origins of 蒙文、藏文，回文

I'm not talking about Chinese literature nor culture nor traditional vs simplified characters, just Chinese as a language in a practical sense.

One can always adopt fuzzy definitions, that Chinese is not one language but a myriad of languages, and that Cantonese is over 1000 years old and is in the granddad class of Chinese languages. This is only self gratifying and of no practical use. If an organization hires you because you claim to speak Chinese, they expect you to be able to communicate with most Chinese in China and the world or you'll get the sack, fuzzy definitions have no place there.

shadeslayer

原帖由 laorenjia 於 12-12-29 發表
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Shadeslayer

//
肥爸爸由頭到尾都冇用中文，我思疑佢唔識中文
//


我思疑佢扮唔識中文


//
係呀，普通話真係好緊要//

你搞錯，他說香港用的語言不能叫中文。

//根據咁嘅定義
//


定義由他定？


//我撑囝囝爸
//


那方面呢?

laorenjia

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係呀，普通話真係好緊要。多口問句：what is your definition of "Chinese"？

laorenjia

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「他說香港用的語言不能叫中文」，「白馬非馬」，「香港用的語言」（包括英文）當然「不能叫中文」。

囝囝爸嘅嘢，佢自己抝得掂，唔駛好似肥爸爸咁要我幫口。