Sharing of IB vs NSS

ANChan59

各位，因為小兒曾經上過英文寫作班及操卷班是4年前的事，他上了兩個學期，跟著沒有再上，所以資料已經過了時間性，參考作用不大，所以在數月前我已經不再提供，不想誤導其他家長，抱歉！


**************




My son studies in a local DSS (直資學校) school which provided both NSS (新高中) & IB curriculum (國際文憑課程). Our family spent quite some time to evaluate the pros and cons of both curriculum and the admission of Universities and other considerations. I would like to share with you all here, only my personal experience.

Background

The school just offers the bridging course of IBDP (國際文憑課程). this school year and no track record of IBDP (國際文憑課程). and even unauthorized in IBO (國際文憑組織). website (Now, being authorized). The tuition fee will be nearly double for IB stream relative to NSS stream. First year only recruit max 60 students, but only 45 places filled as they only accept the top students and excellent command of English to take IBDP (國際文憑課程). (top 80 out of 240 form ranking).

Our concerns:

1. JUPAS (聯招) vs Non-JUPAS (非聯招)

75% university places for JUPAS and only 25% for non-JUPAS (after further review, 25% is max for CityU, other Us from 10-20%, in case you want to know exactly, pls check each university's admission section.). So the chance seems to be higher for JUPAS. I did some research on LPCUWC (李寶春聯合國際書院) and some ESF (英基學校)and IS (國際學校) schools' university admission results in the last few years (Most IS & ESF schools didn't disclose much of their IB results and university admission results, my wild guess their results not impressive.) LPCUWC - 2009 May IB results average 37.16, HK students average 39.29, overseas student’s average 35.13 and the max will be 45 and passing score is 24. Most ESF and IS's IB average less than 32. LPCUWC IB results with flying colors and 82% students study in HK get into Big 3 (港大、中大、科大) in HK and the subjects are impressive like Medicine, Law, Architecture, Business. If my son's IB results comparative to the bright students of LPCUWC, his chance gets into Big 3 for hot subjects may be higher than JUPAS stream.

2. Curriculum (課程)

NSS has some changes in the curriculum like introducing Liberal Studies (通識) , OLE (其他學習經驗), M1 (統計) & M2 (微積分) on top of core Maths. But the examination papers standard close to A-level. It's easier for teachers, students and tuition centers as most HKCEE (會考) and A-level past papers still valid for them. IB has the curriculum but not very popularly known and sometimes their scope close to 1st year University level, but not in the IB examination. Broad curriculum and not as structural as NSS.

3. Work load

Heavy loading in continuous assessment, many projects, presentation, essay writing, lab work etc. it's very demanding in time management and discipline. Some students even as boarders to save their daily travelling time to meet the deadline. Relative to NSS students, they are still "Hea" and wait for the last year to burn the mid-light oil.

4. Top notch universities

I participated two seminars from Cambridge and Oxford Universities' Admission Officer in HK last October/November. Particularly Cambridge recognized the HKAL, but not for HKDSE (香港文憑試). So he recommended students want to study in Cambridge either study Pre-U schools in UK or go for IB, 38-41 will have a chance for interview and depends on individual college requirement (I won't elaborate college system here.). As A* in HKDSE not equivalent to A* in GCE AL, HK students' chance to study elite universities in UK will be slim. That's why more students study in UK for high school.

5. HK/USA/UK

My son not makes up his mind to study in which regions, IB can be one fits all except some US universities may need SAT or other exam to prove your English proficiency. Pls better check the admission requirement of individual university.

6. Exam expert v Life time learner

No definitely preference, sometimes excellent exam results are essential for further studying and career advancement. If exam upset your kid to study, you need to rethink. (Too much work load may also upset my son).

Tactics to achieve IBDP Bridging Program ((國際文憑銜接課程). place in my son's school

1. Excellent command of English

In IBDP, teacher supposes not teaching grammar or basic English, they focus on literature critique. My son not from the primary division of the school, so may not up to the par of their requirement. So we sent him to a very good English class to polish his English writing skills. Not matter he can get in IBDP or not, his English standard improves a lot in this year. (If you really want to know the details of the tuition centres, pls PM me. I don't want to violate the BK rule. Thanks.)

2. Form ranking

My son reviews his handicaps in continuous assessment and examination results of certain subjects. His final ranking not announce yet, but definitely within top 80.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-7-26 15:59 編輯 ]

ilovenunu

謝謝你的分享。  
那天聽簡介會, 不禁為上台的三位男生的自信及英語能力喝采。我想這應該是唸 IB 課程的得著吧。

ANChan59

原帖由 ilovenunu 於 10-7-1 22:39 發表
謝謝你的分享。  
那天聽簡介會, 不禁為上台的三位男生的自信及英語能力喝采。我想這應該是唸 IB 課程的得著吧。

If we are talking the same school, most boys are presentable with high self-confidence and self-esteem, I feel some of them even over-confidence.

Does your son applied for the IBDP Bridging Programme? If yes, you may get the offering letter this week.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 10-7-1 22:57 編輯 ]

Tommy

ANChan59,

I’m so impressed with your article.  Your analysis and inspiring thoughts can really help me to plan for my sons’ future studies.

After reading your article, some questions regarding “JUPAS vs Non-JUPAS” came up to my mind.  I believe you should have good understanding to them.  

Is the 75-25 rule applied to every school year?  Do the universities review it every year?  Do they make adjustment according to the quality and quantity of the Non-JUPAS applicants?

What is the student ratio going for JUPAS and Non-JUPAS in the past?  Was it also 75-25?

Do you think the average standard of Non-JUPAS students is higher than the JUPAS counterparts or vice versa?

Maybe make it simple and straight-forward.  Do the local universities publish the “mean score” and “minimum score” carried by the JUPAS and Non-JUPAS applicants who entered the popular faculty?

Sorry for so many questions raised.  I’m just an ordinary and “calculated” parent.  I’m puzzled and really want to verify whether it is less advantageous for a local student to go for Non-JUPAS.  

Many thanks.

Tommy

ANChan59

原帖由 Tommy 於 10-7-2 01:19 發表
ANChan59,

I’m so impressed with your article.  Your analysis and inspiring thoughts can really help me to plan for my sons’ future studies.

After reading your article, some questions regarding “JUPAS vs Non-JUPAS” came up to my mind.  I believe you should have good understanding to them.  

Is the 75-25 rule applied to every school year (After double check, non-JUPAS 10-20%, 25% only holds for CityU for certain years) ?  Do the universities review it every year (I think so) ?  Do they make adjustment according to the quality and quantity of the Non-JUPAS applicants (I think so.)?

What is the student ratio going for JUPAS and Non-JUPAS in the past (It changes every year by institutions and program) ?  Was it also 75-25 (Not every year/institution/program) ?

Do you think the average standard of Non-JUPAS students is higher than the JUPAS counterparts or vice versa (I don't want to comment on this here, if I made mistake again, it's unfair and may mislead some non-JUPAS applicants. Also, non-JUPAS applicants come from wide spectrum of backgrounds, difficult to comment. Like GCE-AL, IB, other overseas examination boards, Higher Diploma, Associate Degree, mature students etc) ?

Maybe make it simple and straight-forward.  Do the local universities publish the “mean score” and “minimum score” carried by the JUPAS and Non-JUPAS applicants who entered the popular faculty (Yes, you can go to the website of UGC or Education Bureau and you can see the detail beakdown by institutions and programs in 25%, 50% and 75% percentile) ?

Sorry for so many questions raised.  I’m just an ordinary and “calculated” parent.  I’m puzzled and really want to verify whether it is less advantageous for a local student to go for Non-JUPAS.  

Many thanks.

Tommy

Thanks for your questions and after further review year by year comparison, I need to withdraw the 75-25 ratio and amend it with a range from 10-20% as general bold part figure.

I also assume my son may score good grades in IB and my analysis may hold. If not........

Tommy

原帖由 ANChan59 於 10-7-2 21:09 發表


Thanks for your questions and after further review year by year comparison, I need to withdraw the 75-25 ratio and amend it with a range from 10-20% as general bold part figure.

I also assume my s ...

Many thanks for your reply and the useful information.

mattsmum

(2010年7月1日星期四)

我曾在本欄談過本地大學利用「非聯招」辦法收生所引起不公平問題：部份花得起錢的家長，把子女送到外國唸預科，拿取外國的高考成績（例如 GCE），再透過「非聯招」辦法投考香港的大學。外國的高考比香港的淺易得多，容易得到較佳成績，這些「留學生」因此可佔盡便宜，造成「有錢不用考香港高考，無錢留港捱高考」的現象。

文章在去年發表後沒有收過大學資助委員會和任何大學的回應，卻收到家長和同學的電郵，說問題嚴重。6月21日南華早報又有一篇「非聯招」的報道，並列舉數字說明，引述如下：

英國高考（GCE A-Level）每年考獲A級考生為26.7%，香港高考僅為3.6%。香港的大學每年收生約14500名入讀政府資助的本科課程，各大學並沒有設定「非聯招」學額比例或上限，「非聯招生」的數目正在不斷上升，由2004年的2924人（佔當年新生總數19.9%，下同）增至2008年的4107人（26.1%）。2008年，本地高考生考獲「大學入學資格」但因「沒有足夠學額」遭拒大學門外者有6000人。

「非聯招生」考進「熱門」學系的比例更厲害。科大的國際商業，2007年透過「非聯招」成功申請入學的比例為20%，2008年為37.2%，2009年更增至39.5%（即43人中有17人為「非聯招生」）；中大醫科2009年收生160人，其中49人（30.6%）來自「非聯招」；同年，港大醫科也是收生160人，其中竟有100人（62.5%）來自「非聯招」。

要到英國唸兩年預科？學費、宿費、生活費約為港幣900000元，你會考慮嗎？

ANChan59

原帖由 mattsmum 於 10-7-3 23:26 發表
(2010年7月1日星期四)

(2010年7月1日星期四)

我曾在本欄談過本地大學利用「非聯招」辦法收生所引起不公平問題：部份花得起錢的家長，把子女送到外國唸預科，拿取外國的高考成績（例如 GCE），再透過「非聯招」辦法投考香港的大學。外國的高考比香港的淺易得多，容易得到較佳成績，這些「留學生」因此可佔盡便宜，造成「有錢不用考香港高考，無錢留港捱高考」的現象(Be straight, most of theirs parents are civil servants, they have overseas educational allowance up to 18 years old)。

文章在去年發表後沒有收過大學資助委員會和任何大學的回應，卻收到家長和同學的電郵，說問題嚴重。6月21日南華早報又有一篇「非聯招」的報道，並列舉數字說明，引述如下：

英國高考（GCE A-Level）每年考獲A級考生為26.7%，香港高考僅為3.6%。香港的大學每年收生約14500名入讀政府資助的本科課程，各大學並沒有設定「非聯招」學額比例或上限，「非聯招生」的數目正在不斷上升，由2004年的2924人（佔當年新生總數19.9%，下同）增至2008年的4107人（26.1%）。2008年，本地高考生考獲「大學入學資格」但因「沒有足夠學額」遭拒大學門外者有6000人(Non-JUPAS included GCE AL, IB, HD, AD.....)。

「非聯招生」考進「熱門」學系的比例更厲害。科大的國際商業，2007年透過「非聯招」成功申請入學的比例為20%，2008年為37.2%，2009年更增至39.5%（即43人中有17人為「非聯招生」）；中大醫科2009年收生160人，其中49人（30.6%）來自「非聯招」；同年，港大醫科也是收生160人，其中竟有100人（62.5%）來自「非聯招」(Do you think Direct Admission Scheme is non-JUPAS? EAS not counted as JUPAS. Check HKU Medicine and EAS.)。

要到英國唸兩年預科？學費、宿費、生活費約為港幣900000元，你會考慮嗎 (If I think better education is an long term investment, I will. If I think its expenses, I will have second thoughts)？

I read the SCMP's article, the journalist made some wrong assumption. More students in Medicine, Global business etc are come from EAS and not JUPAS.

Go to LPCUWC's website, refer to university admission, most students 82% in local universities are Big 3 and majority went to Medicine, Global Business, Law and Architecture.

Some of my friends in Universities told us that they made mistakes to enrol some 3-5 ALs students returned from UK, even in some good professional subjects, but they were not doing well in the university. Now, the Asmission Office pay special attention to students from UK with ALs. The coming trend is they prefer IB instead of AL.

Moreover, non-JUPAS also included Higher Diploma and Associate Degree graduates.

Your comments also provide some useful information in University Admission from different streams. I recommend you post a new topic and share with others.

My topic only refer to NSS vs IB, how we struggle before Senior Higher School years? Originally, I post it in Middle School sub-forum.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 10-7-4 08:28 編輯 ]

mattsmum

这是从某一校长的专栏抄出来的,只是没抄来源(教育心語 — 龐永欣)，

CU大学线（http://www.com.cuhk.edu.hk/ubeat/,  94期）有类似数字，看了吓一跳，不管IB也好GCE AL
也好，大学收不少. 收11608 JUPAS時就收了4107 non-jupas, 大學認為本地的不夠好嗎？

ibdp 我看了几年，任在理解中。FIS CIS RC 耀中 都能找到IB成绩.

[ 本帖最後由 mattsmum 於 10-7-4 14:27 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 mattsmum 於 10-7-4 13:44 發表
这是从某一校长的专栏抄出来的只是没抄来源，中大大学线也有类似数字，看了吓一跳，不管IB也好GCE也好，大学收不少。
ibdp 我看了几年，任在理解中。不是易的。。 ...

The dear principal still miss the key point.

Non-JUPAS total number = EAS(拔尖) + GCE AL + IB + HD + AD + Mature students + Others
EAS -> most of them to hot and professional subjects and create the bias. It's fine to me that the best go to the hottest subjects.

I researched IB in detail for 1 year as my son need to face the final decision next week. He got the offer of the IBDP last week and will have final exam result next week. The final ranking in Grade 9 will determine he can go to elite Science stream in NSS or not.

He may go for IB by his own decision and the reasons are:

1. If he scores well in IB, he can aim for both local and international elite universities. HKDSE result only good for 2nd tiers universities internationally, as no track record right now.
2. 25-30% score come from continuous assessments and not so rely on final examination. So the work load generally heavier than NSS. Also, 3 extra points on TOK and EE in CA.
3. NSS is too examination driven, IB more spaces for knowledge build up.
4. The competition in non-JUPAS is not as keen as in JUPAS, if your grades in IB 32+ (From UCAS AL AAA = IB 28-31; AAAA = IB 32-36;) .

mattsmum

would he take english A1 as group 1 language or chinese A1 as group 1?

what about his group 2 language? english A2 or english B?

this is a hot discussion topic.

ANChan59

原帖由 mattsmum 於 10-7-4 13:44 發表
IBDP 我看了几年，任在理解中。FIS CIS RC 耀中 都能找到IB成绩

Can you share your impression and pros and cons of IBDP to us?

LPCUWC shows the best IB exam results internationally and university destinations. ESF schools also have IB stream in KG5, IS, WIS etc.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 10-7-4 14:38 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 mattsmum 於 10-7-4 14:31 發表
would he take english A1 as group 1 language or chinese A1 as group 1?

what about his group 2 language? english A2 or english B?

this is a hot discussion topic.

You ask a tricky question, not easy to answer. My son only gets into IBDP Bridging Program in come term and make the final Group selection next summer.

From my research based on the IBO examination report May 2009, the distribution of English and Chinese in A1 and A2 and also HL or SL are detail listed. We can play around that like Chinese as SL A1 and English as SL A2 against Chinese HL A1 and English as SL A2.......... No definite answer.

mattsmum

That is my confusion too,
Lanuage A1 has lit.component and is considered not easy,china's IB student would take Chinese A1 as group one language, that is easy for them,
hK's IS students would likely take eng as group1 language, then depends on their ability, those chinese student might take language a2 or b,
But local school IB student, what Language would they take for group 1- if it is English - you need to have literature back group, how many of these students are so good?if it is cinese, it is also difficult for hk students,
I asked this question in some seminars, they told me to wait because there were revision to syllibus for Chinese , they said.

[ 本帖最後由 mattsmum 於 10-7-4 22:42 編輯 ]

ZZdaphne

NSS

IBDP

I did some research on LPCUWC and some ESF and IS schools' university admission results in the last few years

IB can be one fits all except some US universities may need SAT or other exam to prove your English proficiency

JUPAS. 「聯招」

Non-JUPAS「非聯招」total number = EAS(拔尖) + GCE AL (英國高考)+ IB + HD + AD + Mature students + Others EAS

Also, 3 extra points on TOK and EE in CA.

ESF schools also have IB stream in KG5, IS, WIS etc.

FIS CIS RC 耀中 都能找到IB成绩.
------------------------------------------

ANChan59或各位:

可否將上述的簡稱用中文註釋,
讓家長們明白多些,
謝謝你們寶貴的資料和分享.



[ 本帖最後由 ZZdaphne 於 10-7-11 14:05 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 ZZdaphne 於 10-7-11 14:02 發表

NSS (新高中)

IBDP (國際文憑課程，簡稱IB，IBDP成績24分以上為合格，45分滿分。入大學只睇IBDP)

I did some research on LPCUWC (李寶春聯合國際書院) and some ESF (英基書院) and IS (國際學校)schools' university admission results in the last few years

IB can be one fits all except some US universities may need SAT or other exam to prove your English proficiency

JUPAS. 「聯招」

Non-JUPAS「非聯招」total number = EAS(拔尖) + GCE AL (英國高考)+ IB + HD (高級文憑) + AD (副學士)+ Mature students + Others EAS

Also, 3 extra points on TOK (Theory of Knowledge 研究項目) and EE (Extended Essay 論文)  in CA (Continuous Assessment).

ESF (English School Foundation) schools also have IB stream in KG5 (King George Five), IS (Island School), WIS (West Island School) etc.

FIS (French Intrnational School) CIS (Chinese International School) RC 耀中 都能找到IB成绩.

版主，我盡力而為。

我以為有興趣者會對那些簡稱明白，忽略其他讀者初接觸時會有少少困難。我會以後留意，謝謝提醒。

ZZdaphne

原帖由 ANChan59 於 10-7-11 18:27 發表


版主，我盡力而為。

我以為有興趣者會對那些簡稱明白，忽略其他讀者初接觸時會有少少困難。我會以後留意，謝謝提醒。

因為曾經有家長pm問過IB課程,
你們的文章有很好的資料,
值得細讀.
謝謝你的幫忙.

ANChan59

Just an update of my son's final decision: He goes for Pre-IB (國際課程預備班) and then IBDP, even he can go to pure or mixed science streams. His rationales are:

1. Elite students go for mixed stream like Phy + Chem + Econ; Chem + Bio + Econ. For electives, very similar to IB's combination. This year, top 3 students and most top 30 students opt for IB;

2. After one year Pre-IB, he can see Pre-IB students progress and mindset for studying and getting into university is better than most NSS students. Even the principal reminded the parents, the NSS exam result will be declined as most students too lay back;

3. His seniors feedback on IB is better than NSS - Teacher quality and experience, training, predicted grades and self-confidence; and

4. He has positive feeling of IB teachers during the interview, they appreciated his creativity and exposures. The first time in the school.

He needs to workhard finally to ensure the score 38+.

He will go for first degree in HK through non-JUPAS and may be postgraduate to overseas. Gain more overseas exposures through internship (實習), volunteer services (義務工作) and exchange programs (交流計劃) in undergraduate program.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-1-17 10:28 編輯 ]

mattsmum

"can go to pure or mixed science streams."
what does this mean?

ANChan59

原帖由 mattsmum 於 10-7-16 23:27 發表
"can go to pure or mixed science streams."
what does this mean?

The most popular streams are

Stream A Pure science - Phy + Chem + Bio
Stream B Mixed science - Phy + Chem + XXX
Stream C Mixed science - Chem + Bio + XXX

Electives XXX - Phy, Bio, Econ, ICT (電腦), BAFS (商課) .........

Economics and ICT are the most popular XXX electives.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-1-17 10:29 編輯 ]