Sharing of IB vs NSS

ANChan59

海外冷待文憑試 港生學歷大貶值
太陽報社論 25/12/2010

首屆中學文憑試將於後年舉行，港府日前公布首批二十四間海外院校的收生要求，仍有超過四成拒絕承認文憑試的英文成績，影響香港學生的升學機會。到底當局能否在未來一年多時間裏對外有效推銷文憑試，不能不令人懷疑。

事實上，海外院校拒絕承認文憑試成績，並非質疑香港學生的能力，而是對新考試制度缺乏信心。正如升學專家指出，因為港府無法清晰指出文憑試英文科的合格水平，令海外院校擔心香港學生的英文水平是否達標。

我們不妨作一比較，舊制高考的合格成績分別為E至A級，可以與英國高考直接對照；但文憑試的成績分一至五級，其中第五級又分為五*及五**級別，不但難與國際考試對照，而且不設合格與不合格的分界，令人莫名其妙。有鑑於此，英國大學及院校招生事務處不得不自行制訂對照表，列明香港文憑試的五級、四級、三級分別等同英國高考的Ａ、Ｃ、Ｅ級。

即便如此，本港學生的升學機會仍是大受影響。舉個簡單例子，現時英國排名首三十位大學的收生要求為ABB或以上成績，但由於文憑試沒有對應的B及D級，香港學生的成績變相大幅貶值，必須考獲對應AAA的三科五級才有機會入讀。加上部分院校拒絕承認英文成績，迫使學生須另外考IELTS、托福等國際試。港府將會考高考二合為一，本是為了減輕學生的考試壓力，如今卻反過來加重學生的學習及考試負擔，適得其反，令人啼笑皆非。

香港中學文憑試的評級混亂不堪，海外院校無所適從，拒絕承認，人們不難理解。令人百思不得其解的是，香港多年前已決定推行新學制及文憑試，當局應有充裕時間進行檢討及準備工作，包括向海外院校宣傳推介，為何至今仍未能完善評級制度？為何文憑試的海外認受性至今仍這麼低？

其實，不僅海外院校冷待文憑試，連本地院校也充滿疑惑。八間本地院校早前公布文憑試的最低收生要求，有大學要求選修科達三級以上，有的只要求二級以上，有熱門學科卻以最高的第五級作為最低要求，五花八門，令人眼花繚亂，至於當局一直硬銷的應用學習科，竟有一半大學拒絕承認。

尤有甚者，連僱主也被搞得一頭霧水。新考試制度實施後，僱主將同時面對持有高考、會考及文憑試成績的求職者，但到底文憑試成績如何對應高考及會考，當局也無法清晰交代。為免「睇錯成績請錯人」，有僱主明言將為應徵者自設英語考試，用實際行動對文憑試投下不信任的一票。

香港順應國際潮流，改行三三四學制及文憑試，本來無可厚非，奈何當局考慮不周，安排欠佳，添煩添亂。歸根究柢，院校及僱主拒絕承認文憑試，不僅針對考試本身，更反映他們對本港教育制度朝令夕改的反感。為免淪為新學制的犧牲品，不少家境富裕的學生紛紛改往海外升學「避難」，導致今年到英國升讀高中的港生人數上升逾一成，香港教育制度的災難，竟然化為外國教育產業的商機。港府為淵驅魚，為叢驅雀，實在愚不可及。

難為港府高官大言不慚，揚言發展甚麼教育產業，打造甚麼區域教育樞紐。可惜的是，先生之志大矣，先生能力不足，奈何！

That's exactly what we worry about. One and half year later, we can see the outcomes, but thousands students as guinea pigs under not well thought "Educational Reform".

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 10-12-26 02:58 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 ChiChiPaPa 於 10-12-26 10:45 發表


有大學要求HKCEE（舊會考）英文 Grade 3 or above，但HKDSE（新文憑）英文就要 Grade 4 or above。讀6年後的考試還不如舊的5年中學會考，這已足夠證明學歷在「334」學制下的貶值。

這還未計算數學科和通識科的問題，因這問卷沒 ...

As study six years instead of five years in secondary schools, the English standard should be higher, but the overseas recognition going down. HKEAA only claimed no. of recognition and not elaborate the recognition compared with HKCEE and HKAL examinations.

The conclusion may be the examination standard really going down to improve the passing rate in general (穿衣戴帽工程) to misreprsent the HKDSE is better off, but eventually make the good and the medicore students suffered.

Other issues:

1. Chinese & Liberal Study may not be counted in some universities and or elite universities from overseas; and

2. Without Chinese & LS, elective subjects number is marginal and the tolerance of making mistakes in examination will be very tight.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 10-12-26 21:22 編輯 ]

ANChan59

The parents day will be on 29th and we can meet with his teachers to review his performance in Pre-IB.

From his personal opinion, he may struggle a bit in languages, other subjects meet expectation.

I am so appreciated his effort to apply for LPCUWC, the school didn't recommend him and other boys, we finally asked some friends to write the recommendation letters. The Appitude tests quite a challenge for them. He is comfortable to enter 2nd stage - Challenge Day, through activities, team-work, reflection, interviews to reflect their characters and attitude matched with the college expectation.

This year the applicants may be more than previous year like 500+, only 300+ for Challenge Day and 100+ for Panel interview. Accept 50 for LPCUWC and 16-18 for overseas UWC.

ANChan59

eviepa

Your daughter may have time and she may study in HK, so HKDSE is not a problem for your family.

Unfortunately, my son is the second batch if he takes HKDSE, we have no time to wait and our target overseas universities won't wait for us or HKDSE.

If you don't consider IB or study overseas, you can skip this thread.  

ANChan59

ANChan59

eviepa

You always have a wrong impression on me as a die-hard supporter of HKAL, I explained more than one time, but you never listen. Yes, my wife and I studied in UK, but we are pretty open-mined in education. My son's first summer program in Australia(G4), then USA (G6), UK (G9).... we enourage wider exposure and analyse different systems for our boy. I need to be humble and I am not good enough to comment on those systems. May be you know more than us.

In UK, for top notch universities well consider HKAL, but they feel uncomfortable about HKDSE (Oxbridge). Their admission officers strongly recommended us either go for feeder school in UK or IB in HK. That's why we consider IB even I am not sure my son eligible to have an interview or not (Oxbridge). But, I and he didn't want to sit for so many examinations on top of HKDSE, GCE AL, SAT, AP etc. for overseas education.

Your point number 1 is partial valid, British discriminate other races and nationalities, just enjoy French, Scotish and Irish jokes. But Cambridge well appreciates the HKAL results as our Cs ~ to GCE As. Our 3As much much better than GCE-AL 3As, better preference in admission.

Your pt no.2 is nothing to do with my case as I explained in first paragraph. Don't complicated with 334 and 523 arguement again.

ANChan59

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-1-15 00:13 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 eviepa 於 11-1-13 23:49 發表
IB有多年(Over 60 yrs)的經歷，而且是成功的經驗，國際性的認受性自然高，修讀這課程必定好。

Finally, you get my point.

Good luck to your daughter.

ANChan59

我覺得文憑試其實不淺，文憑試的學生是可以同時應考其他公開考試。部份科目和其他國際試的範圍差別不大，應考其他國際試所付出的額外時間不會多很多，但可減少一試定生死的問題，和加強報海外大學的籌碼。
Why HKDSE instead of HKCEE & HKALE? Reduce the examination pressure and no. of exam. of the students. Am I correct? Why more exam?????

我希望將來會有學校或教育機構為文憑試的學生開辦美國的 AP 課程，尤其是數學和經濟科，這將有助文憑試的尖子取得美國大學的學位。
My son got some AP credit in maths from EPGY.

目前已有學校幫學生報 IGCSE，例如優才、聖保祿學校，不過，IGCSE 的深度不及 AP。對有實力的文憑試考生，AP 應是更好的挑戰。
More examinations ....... another way to reduce the popularity of HKDSE again. I highly regard the smartness of the principal of those school.

政府也應努力為文憑試取得內地的認可，以提升文憑試的價值。其實過往的香港考試已取得英美澳大學承認，文憑試要取得她們的認可只是時間問題。相反香港的考試過往得不到內地知名大學的認可，文憑試是可打開這升學通道，為香港學生提供更廣闊的出路。
HKEAA - in the process to negotiate with China Examination/Education Bureau .

ANChan59

Thanks for your sharing in public exams issues. You made a good point for primary and secondary importance of different exams for different students.

Good discussion.....

Amazingly, my son did convince me -  focus, focus, focus..... single exam if possible.

ANChan59

原帖由 easy 於 11-1-16 12:01 發表
ANChan,

Glad to know your son will enter the 2nd round -Challenge Day. I particpated the NSS & IB talk in our school yesterday. After IB teacher and student's presentation, they gave me a very good i ...

He didn't receive the invitation letter for Challenge Day yet. The letter will be posted to applicants on or before 10th Feb. Anyway, he will prepare for that. We are lucky enough have some contacts in LPCUWC from DBS, applicants attended the admission process before and graduates. Their info will be useful for preparation.

What's your preference on NSS & IB so far? In case your boy interested in IB, we can share either here or pm me.

I guess your boy also from DBS. He can apply for SPCC as well, but aware a compulsory question "What's your preference between SPCC & DBS?"

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-1-16 13:44 編輯 ]

ANChan59

Check your pm.

ANChan59

moments

The English Tuition Centre contacts will pm to you separately.

The summer programs my son attended are limited and with certain primary focus, like creativity, problem solving and application of Maths in different fields like Finance and Science etc. So pls treat this as examples and you can search more programs through internet. I also summarise some tips in searching gifted programs in the following recommendations:

1. Stanford University - EPGY Summer Institute

http://epgy.stanford.edu/summer/

a. My son attended middle school program - Creative Problem Solving at G6, age 11. I strongly recommend parents to apply through internet directly to EPGY (Education Program for Gifted Youth) and no need through HK agent, they are not helpful from my past experience.

b. Two years ago, EPGY had an International Summer Program in Imperial College, London and Ching Hua, Beijing respectively. We applied for that but my son was too young and turned down by EPGY. Ironically, he was accepted by Imperial College for the same summer program in the same summer through STEM and I will introduce that later.

c. EPGY also provides Creative Writing and other English, Science programs and Sports Camp.


2. Imperial College Summer School

http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/outre ... llege/summerschools

The details will be announced in early Spring 2011. My son attended two programs - Problem Solving and From Invention to Market (Business & Marketing). The also provide programs like Forsenic Science, Space Science etc....

My son first sit for the World Class Tests in HKUST as per the following link and passed with double Distinctions in both Problem Solving and Maths.

http://www.worldclassarena.hk/en/goforWCT/studentsTake.htm

Then you will be eligible for the Imperial College Gifted and Talented STEM World Summer Progam. If you want to take the program in HK under HKUST, you can also join the John Hopkins University Center for Talented Youth (CTY) Summer Programs. John Hopkins is more famous in gifted and talented programs than Stanford in USA, JH also the first University provided Talent Search Tests nationally and internationally.

http://www.worldclassarena.hk/en/doWCT/Related.htm

3. NAGTY - National Academy of Gifted and Talented Youth, UK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat ... _and_Talented_Youth

I can't find the new link of the website. We applied that simultaneously with EPGY, we declinded that finally. But, they only served the family as British Citizens and Residents.

4. Voluntary Services

You can contact your kids' school(s) or the website of NGO, there are many programs in long holidays, not just summer. But some of them request you join as a family and not just the kid(s).

The programs mentioned above more on gifted programs (Not just limited in Maths, they also provided English, Science, Business and Sports programs) and with some international exposures, we utilised that as training tool to develop my son's independence and be ready to study aboard. The last but not the least, "so many elites in the world", make him to be humble.

From last summer onward, we shift the focus of summer programs to university admission and career selection. I mentioned that in other thread(s) to position him to get into his favourite programs either in HK or overseas.

ANChan59

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-1-18 20:23 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 moments 於 11-1-18 17:42 發表
Hi ANChan59,

Thanks very much for the information.  My daughter is not particularly strong in Math but she is enthusiastic in English.  I hope I can find some suitable summer program for her this yea ...

The summer schools/institutes mentioned in the above also have English Program. Check it out and you can find something interesting.

ANChan59

原帖由 easy 於 11-1-16 12:01 發表
ANChan,

Glad to know your son will enter the 2nd round -Challenge Day.  

easy

My son got the invitation for Challenge Day this afternoon. See how far he can go.........

ANChan59

原帖由 easy 於 11-1-29 15:40 發表
ANChan,
Congratulations!
Add oil !

easy

Thanks for your congratulation. Let's add oil for our boys......

This morning met with my boy's academic advisor, the advisor's comments on him are positive and he integrated well in the Pre-IB classess.

Most of his subjects are "proficient" and language subjects are "developing" and need more hardwork to get better grade.

The comments and remarks on individual subjects are valid and useful. He needs to digest those comments and formulate his improvement plan for the next semister.

As both subject masters in both English and Chinese languages are in IB workshops outside HK. We may discuss with them after CNY.

ANChan59

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-1-29 17:32 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 開心義工 於 11-2-10 10:18 發表
Hi AN Chan, I am a student from the Chinese University of Hong Kong. I want to know whether you could receive my PM.
Wish you a happy new year!

Yes, you can PM me.
Same to you.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-2-10 17:26 編輯 ]

ANChan59

原帖由 開心義工 於 11-2-13 23:46 發表
I have just PM you. Could you get it?
Thank you!

I got it and it sounds interesting to me.

I will call you within today.

ANChan59

My son finished the Challenge Day yesterday, you can see the "Challenge" in separate post.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-2-14 14:18 編輯 ]

ANChan59

wisemom & Relon18

Check your pm.

ANChan59

mamino

Why your son likes IB stream instead of NSS? Any special reasons?

English is critical, if he is in the middle of the form, he can handle that. For example, the first essay is 1000+ words, the teacher(s) will teach them how to structure the essay and present arguments and commentary in a systematic way. More presentations and activity based exercise, like court room, games.........

IB stream in general more interactions in class, as class size only 15, but NSS around 30+ students. My son quite enjoys the curricullum and the teachng method, he does much better in IB and rebuild his self-confidence.

In case you have more specific questions, pm me and I can share more through pm.

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-5-2 13:41 編輯 ]

ANChan59

Right, it's a new phenomenon in HK. Some families are affected but difficult to ask for help, it's new for everyone. Base on your provided info, some quick comments as follow:

We are facing the same struggle choosing between NSS and IB; my son and I quite like the idea of IB (he wishes to study aboard).  

But we want my son to study law in university (Your choice or his choice?).

We have talked to some friends and their suggestion is if my son wants to be a doctor or solicitor he should study in the local university, and also we found no information about the admission grade required for IB student in local university web sites (Most universities only state the min entrance requirements and not the accepted grades. In JUPAS, you can get some results from either UGC or HKEAA info by university and by programs in 25%, 50%, 75% percentile. You can send a email to the admission office, they may provide some info for previous years. Of course, they will say it will chnage every year.)  

From the web sites of HKEAA I found that U of Cambridge would consider applicant with 5*5*5 in three HKDSE, U of Oxford average 555 in 3 elective subjects. (Pls check again in Oxford and Cambridge at the international student sections, you may find their requirements in IB. If you aim LLB for this two universities, IB is a good choice.)

But because NSS is so new we are unable to predict my son grades. (Normally, predicted by the principal or the teacher, not you.)

Also if we take the IB we are unable to predict the grades as well since it is new in my son school too. (Not true, because IB also count CA and you boy's examination papers and CA also reviewed externally. So after each examination, my son's school will provide the predicted grades for our reference and details are also listed in ManageBag/web base platform.)

So we are facing a challenge of making decision without objective facts for our reference (Eventually it's alot from overseas and we need to knock doors......... Most admission officers are helpful.) Just so glad I found this thread that we can share our views. (Let's share and discuss here.)

Pls check this website, which is very popular in UK, you can find some very useful info in it. Also IB requirements for most programs and different univerities are listed. I did search the medicine and economics programs, very detail and comprehensive.

www.thestudentroom.co.uk

[ 本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 11-5-10 10:39 編輯 ]