ESF有可能改善嗎?

阿胡

每年4月, 都是美國大學放榜時間.

香港的主要幾間國際學校的學生, 許多都以美國大學為目標. 很明顯, 各間學校學生的結果不盡相同. 特別是HKIS, CIS和ESF的結果比較, 對家長選校很有幫助, 有時甚至是決定性的.

因為基本上是以美國大學為目標, HKIS的college
counseling最早且已經很成熟了, 完全知道美國大學招生的遊戲規則. CIS成立較晚, 開始時並無專職的college counselor. 聽說幾年前開始聘請專業college counselor了, 這幾年的結果有目共睹.

至於ESF, 像STC和KGV, 儘管最好的學生可以和HKIS, CIS有得一比, 但平均結果與後者是有明顯差別的. 當然, 一種說法是HKIS, CIS收的學費貴, 可以有能力幫助學生升好大學. 但仔細想來又不盡然.  香港也有學費貴的其他學校, 但結果比ESF還要差.

ESF中學升學不盡如意, 可能有好多原因:

1. 學生較雜, 好差都有;
2. 學校無財力幫助學生;
3. 學校不重視;
4. 學校不熟悉美國大學招生的遊戲規則;
5. 老師不熟悉美國文化, 學生推薦信過於保守.

等等.

想過來想過去, 都覺得ESF學校要負很大責任. Baby-Kingdom有許多ESF的家長, 我也是其中之一.

大家覺得ESF有可能改善嗎?

拋磚引玉而已.

popolung

I am not sure about the information provided above is correct or not, as I still searching where I can find these results. But I think this is why EsF is moving to use IB, at least for a better international standard to cope with other:

http://www.esf.edu.hk/index.aspx?nodeID=1040&langNo=1

ESF has traditionally taught the National Curriculum of England and Wales, adapted to the Hong Kong context. We used standardised assessments from Year 1 in order to measure progress and added value objectively. Schools are now moving to an overtly enquiry-based, investigative style of teaching and learning. Accordingly, primary schools are moving to the International Baccalaureate Organisation’s Primary Years Programme (PYP).

At secondary level, we continue with the adapted National Curriculum of England and Wales in Years 7 to 9, and then take GCSE and IGCSE courses. Renaissance and Discovery Colleges offer the IBO’s Middle Years Programme (MYP). At post-16, the majority of students follow the IB Diploma programme.  At all levels, we seek to differentiate the curriculum to cater for students with learning difficulties, including at post-16, where we have introduced a four pathway model, the ESF Diploma.

阿胡

採用IB, 肯定對學生入讀美國大學有利. 但從過去多年來同HKIS, CIS和ESF家長的交流, 及我自己孩子的第一手經驗, ESF長期對入讀美國大學確實是相對莫視. 一些家長甚至用"學校不聞不問, 讓學生自生自滅"的極端字語來描述.

可惜今年同樣的事情又再次發生, 而這已是ESF學校採用IB之後.

IB並不是萬能藥. 香港IB學校不少, 但學校的college matriculation差別甚大.

http://www.ibo.org/school/search/index.cfm?programmes=&country=HK&region=&find_schools=Find

popolung

原帖由 阿胡 於 09-4-5 09:58 發表
採用IB, 肯定對學生入讀美國大學有利. 但從過去多年來同HKIS, CIS和ESF家長的交流, 及我自己孩子的第一手經驗, ESF長期對入讀美國大學確實是相對莫視. 一些家長甚至用"學校不聞不問, 讓學生自生自滅"的極端字語來描 ...

This is link to IB school in HK only, any result to share as you mentioned? How old is your kid now? Where is he studying now?

[ 本帖最後由 popolung 於 09-4-5 12:41 編輯 ]

阿胡

HKIS: (2008)
http://dragonnet.hkis.edu.hk/hs/administration/crosssections/2008_cs0603.doc

CIS:
http://www.cis.edu.hk/cisnews.asp?lang=e&detailpage=1&docid=104

KGV:
http://kgv.edu.hk/students/unidest.html

ICS:
http://www.ics.edu.hk/En/Pub/schools_HS_CollegeAdvising.aspx?id=59

耀中:
http://www.ycis-hk.com/Pages/SEC/Admission/Template.aspx?docID=3065&style=Document&MenuID=157

其他學校的類似名單部分也可以在網上找到.

[ 本帖最後由 阿胡 於 09-4-5 14:45 編輯 ]

popolung

原帖由 阿胡 於 09-4-5 14:06 發表
HKIS: (2008)
http://dragonnet.hkis.edu.hk/hs/administration/crosssections/2008_cs0603.doc

CIS:
http://www.cis.edu.hk/cisnews.asp?lang=e&detailpage=1&docid=104

KGV:
http://kgv.edu.hk/students/unidest ...

Ar I think I saw some of these links too. Which school your kid is studying now?

cmparent

It is an issue of self-selection. For parents who target at US universities, they will send their kids to HKIS, CIS, ICS etc. ESF is traditionally targeted towards UK universities and this is expected so. US university is not the only choice.

Mighty

亜胡、我是ESF家長、従１開始我完全没有想過要入讀美学大学、我是「英．AUS。」派才選択ESF的。　　所以在這方面我不覚得需要ESF改善、其他想改善的地方、当然非常多。　　如果要入讀美国大学、我覚得不応選択ESF.　　我知道美国是一個land of opportunities的地方、但美国政府長期不願意加入京都協議、我覚得作為一個工業大国、就非常有問題。　SORI,政治同学術不応混為一談、只是借位、有感而発。

popolung

原帖由 Mighty 於 09-4-5 19:59 發表
亜胡、我是ESF家長、従１開始我完全没有想過要入讀美学大学、我是「英．AUS。」派才選択ESF的。　　所以在這方面我不覚得需要ESF改善、其他想改善的地方、当然非常多。　　如果要入讀美国大学、我覚得不応選択ESF.　　我 ...

Haha, I like this. Yes, US should sign the Kyoto Protocol, just like what the Australia Government did when Kevin Rudd is on board. Obama pls do something!

And yes, I also plan to send my kid to UK since she has UK passport (but who knows after 13 years), but is it cheaper to study in UK university if one is an UK citizen?

[ 本帖最後由 popolung 於 09-4-5 22:03 編輯 ]

almom

I think there are 2 issues here.

First, the actual universities placement results.
I would say that this depends much on what the student can choose (depending on his school results, including SAT, etc), what the student can afford (going to the US is not exactly cheap, when compared to Australia and Canada, expecially to those who have an Australian or Canadian passport), what the student want to choose (who knows, may be he wants to stay with mom in Hong Kong; or may be mom does not want him to leave Hong Kong; yes I have heard of such cases). Et cetera.

Second, which I think 阿胡 is focusing on, is the application procedure or the effort of the school in helping out those who want to go to the US.

In this respect, I would like to ask 阿胡 whether the schools are putting as little effort with applications to Canadian and Australian universities?

阿胡

原帖由 Mighty 於 09-4-5 19:59 發表
亜胡、我是ESF家長、従１開始我完全没有想過要入讀美学大学、我是「英．AUS。」派才選択ESF的。　　所以在這方面我不覚得需要ESF改善、其他想改善的地方、当然非常多。　　如果要入讀美国大学、我覚得不応選択ESF.　　我 ...

哈哈, 就是光以英國為目標做比較, ESF中學也不如CIS做得好. 可CIS有大部分學生是以美國大學為目標的啊!

[ 本帖最後由 阿胡 於 09-4-6 00:34 編輯 ]

阿胡

原帖由 almom 於 09-4-5 22:29 發表
...
In this respect, I would like to ask 阿胡 whether the schools are puttingas little effort with applications to Canadian and Australianuniversities?

我對去加拿大和澳洲大學讀書的學生了解不多, 並不能對此多加評論. 但邏輯上, 如果有很多家長對ESF為去美國升學而抱怨, 很難想像ESF會花很大努力幫助去加拿大和澳洲大學讀書的學生. 事實上, 加拿大和澳洲大學的競爭遠不如英美的頂尖大學來的利害.

Mighty

ＳＯＲＲＹ，亜胡是指在ＡＰＰＬＩＣＡＴＩＯＮ　ＰＲＯＣＥＤＵＲＥ的問題、或是成績方面？　　ＣＩＳ的学費可同ＥＳＦ相提並論嗎？　我的２個大女児、一個去了ＵＮＩＶＥＲＳＩＴＹ　ＯＦ　ＷＡＬＥＳ、一個去了ＣＡＭＢＲＩＤＥ、都ＯＫ啦。　当然大部分都是自己的努力、ＥＳＦ的ＥＤＵＣＡＴＩＯＮ都另她們很独立。　　如説話離題了、対不起、我没有再重看之前幾位的回覆了。

popolung

原帖由 Mighty 於 09-4-6 10:13 發表
ＳＯＲＲＹ，亜胡是指在ＡＰＰＬＩＣＡＴＩＯＮ　ＰＲＯＣＥＤＵＲＥ的問題、或是成績方面？　　ＣＩＳ的学費可同ＥＳＦ相提並論嗎？　我的２個大女児、一個去了ＵＮＩＶＥＲＳＩＴＹ　ＯＦ　ＷＡＬＥＳ、一個去了ＣＡＭＢＲＩＤＥ、都ＯＫ啦。　当然大部分都是自己的努力、ＥＳＦ的ＥＤＵＣＡＴＩＯＮ都另她們很独立。　　如説話離題了、対不起、我没有再重看之前幾位的回覆 ...

You must be proud of your daughters and you have put many effort on them too, well done! We still have long way to go!

almom

原帖由 阿胡 於 09-4-6 00:31 發表
哈哈, 就是光以英國為目標做比較, ESF中學也不如CIS做得好. 可CIS有大部分學生是以美國大學為目標的啊!

So you mean, ESF students are not going to good universities in both the US and the UK?

CIS obviously can afford to put more resourses in university placements, or providing all kinds of supports to students to boost up their results.

almom

原帖由 阿胡 於 09-4-6 00:50 發表
我對去加拿大和澳洲大學讀書的學生了解不多, 並不能對此多加評論. 但邏輯上, 如果有很多家長對ESF為去美國升學而抱怨, 很難想像ESF會花很大努力幫助去加拿大和澳洲大學讀書的學生. 事實上, 加拿大和澳洲大學的競爭遠不如英美的頂尖大學來的利害.

I am curious what exactly would those university placement people be willing to do for the students?
What support do they provide.
May be my children are still small and I have very slight idea of their job responsibilities.
I would have thought that if they are hired to help students with university placements, they should try their best to help students.
BTW, do you mind telling me what year level is your child in?
Please also share what you know or see, regarding university placements.
I would like to take notes and get prepared.
Thanks.

阿胡

原帖由 almom 於 09-4-6 13:08 發表


So you mean, ESF students are not going to good universities in both the US and the UK?

CIS obviously can afford to put more resourses in university placements, or providing all kinds of supports t ...

當然, 錢多好辦事嘛.

我想說的是, 兩個本來都可以進常青藤的學生, 由於學校幫助的差異(例如: essay proof reading, wording in reference letters, etc), 結果其中一個只進普通州立大學. 這種事發生在自己的孩子身上, 再加上一句"誰讓你讀ESF?", 你會有何感受?

父母, 學校, 及其學生自己, 十來年的努力, 而由於忽於申請而入不了他應該入到的好大學, 真是令人感慨.

我只不過是年年聽到ESF的部分家長, 因為學校乏於幫助學生而入不到好大學, 而有感而發而已.

我大孩子畢業於HKIS, 入到間好大學. 現在小孩子在ESF, 將來如何, 當然仍有很多選擇. 可能真如俗話說的, 一分錢一分貨呢.

早年CIS, 也不懂入學遊戲規則, 現在就好多了.

作為ESF學生家長, 我只是希望學校更好而已.

[ 本帖最後由 阿胡 於 09-4-6 17:53 編輯 ]

almom

I see what you mean.
And I totally understand how you feel.
I think as parents, we can just push the school into doing more.
Like I said eariler, what else are they willing to help?
I thought they were hired to help students with university placement?
It is the problem with the person only, or with the general policy of the school?

阿胡

原帖由 almom 於 09-4-6 13:19 發表


I am curious what exactly would those university placement people be willing to do for the students?
What support do they provide.
May be my children are still small and I have very slight idea of t ...

通常他們被稱之為college counselor. 常常是native, 語言好, 識同人交流, 又熟悉大學錄取遊戲規則的人來擔任.

如果大學錄取只以分數作為標準, 這個世界就不會有college counselor. 但是, 英美學校, 特別是美國頂尖大學, 錄取真是一場"遊戲". (這裡遊戲一詞毫無貶義)

華人都覺得SAT不太難, 但大學錄取, SAT的份量不大. 孩子的品德, 包括essay字裡行間表露的信息, 會對錄取很重要. 顯然, 這不是一句"He is an excellent student"就夠的. 好多時候要college counselor寫一封令人信服的信.

Mighty

亜胡
我好奇有２個問題問問：－
①為何不転ＨＫＩＳ，ＯＲ　ＣＩＳ？　By the way this is NOT a provocative question, i m just wondering...
②亜胡想ＥＳＦ改善的問題、有否直接同学校対話？　要一所像ＥＳＦ機構去改変、時間非常長！！但不是没可能的。　　我也是ＥＳＦ家長、如可一同努力、当然会作。　　最近去信ＶＩＣＥ　ＰＲＩＮＣＩＰＡＬ作了一個要求、解釈個人需要、事情是比較簡単的、非常快就有効了。