CIS vs Yew Chung

foolish.mom

My kid is in Yew Chung year 6 and is accepted to CIS year 7. I know most parents here would prefer CIS. But can someome share with me how better and how much better?

foolish.mom

Any comments please? We are living at Kowloon side and may not be possible to move to HK side. Also, personally I prefer GCSE more than IB. Changing environment and school is also a challenge for a kid close to teenage. Is CIS really much better than Yew chung? Our aim is to let the kid enter a good university.

youngmami

原文章由 foolish.mom 於 08-5-9 14:05 發表
My kid is in Yew Chung year 6 and is accepted to CIS year 7. I know most parents here would prefer CIS. But can someome share with me how better and how much better?

Hi foolish.mom,

What's CIS stand for?  Chinese International School or Canadian International School?

What's your experience with Yew Chung?  

I need to make a decision next week so very eager to hear more about this school.  Many thanks if you can share sth.

foolish.mom

youngmami,

CIS stands for Chinese International School.

How old is your kid? Do you want comments on Yew Chung Kindergarten, or Primary, or Secondary?

First of all, have you attended their information session and do you buy their philosophy?

youngmami

原文章由 foolish.mom 於 08-7-30 14:21 發表
youngmami,

CIS stands for Chinese International School.

How old is your kid? Do you want comments on Yew Chung Kindergarten, or Primary, or Secondary?

First of all, have you attended their informat ...

I want to know more about primary
no chance to attend information session, anything that must note ?  I want my child in a school strong in both English and Chinese, small class, not 'duck feeding' type, shall I choose Yew Chung primary?

Tks for sharing!

youngmami

原文章由 foolish.mom 於 08-7-30 14:21 發表
youngmami,

CIS stands for Chinese International School.

How old is your kid? Do you want comments on Yew Chung Kindergarten, or Primary, or Secondary?

First of all, have you attended their informat ...

BTW, about CIS, I have two friends whose child graduated from CIS several years ago, both of them were admitted to top universities of UK and States (the UK one should be Warwick) so I think CIS is a nice school

foolish.mom

youngmami,

1. small class size - yes, from 18 to 26 for my kid's classes. Kids are even grouped into different tables (4 - 10 kids in a group) according to their abilities for different subjects. Thus, kids can learn and develop at their own pace and happily. Top students get extra (or more advanced) work and below average ones have extra coaching.

2. duck feeding - definitely avoided. International school approach - creativitiy, exploring, sharing, induce self-learning abilities, lots of reading

3. Strong in both English & Chinese - Yew Chung's objective and selling points - successful for some kids but not all.
Yew Chung aims at using 30% of school time for Chinese, and achieving local school Chinese standard. This is only successful for around half of the kids. Others may not be able to be good in 2 languages, or lose interest in learning Chinese. Their self-edited Chinese text books are excellent in learning Chinese characters effectively. Some of my friends with kids in local schools borrow my text books to help teach their kids Chinese characters. Teachers are native-Putonghua speakers. Most of them can teach very well. Upper primary emphasizes on passage interpretation and composition. Some kids can write really good compositions, similar to top kids in local schools.
Since 30% is used for Chinese, English standard may be a bit behind than other IS. It is obvious for spoken English. Most kids talk to their friends in Cantonese outside school hours. English and Putonghua are used in classrooms only (The spoken English standard is sufficient for learning use or even debating, but not quite adequate for use in 24 hour daily life). But reading, comprehension and writing ability are similar to other IS. English of top kids is similar to top kids of other IS. But not all kids can achieve 1st language level in English.
There are quite some talented students in Yew Chung, who can achieve very high standards in both English and Chinese. They can really benefit from the bilingual teaching of Yew Chung. Some others are excellent in English but not Chinese, or vice versa. Some kids don't have good English nor Chinese!

There are some bad comments about Yew Chung from other parents. Obviously, not every parent is happy there. You may want to read those first before making a decision.

If you have other questions about Yew Chung, I am happy to share with you.

youngmami

原文章由 foolish.mom 於 08-7-30 18:34 發表
youngmami,

1. small class size - yes, from 18 to 26 for my kid's classes. Kids are even grouped into different tables (4 - 10 kids in a group) according to their abilities for different subjects. Thu ...

foolish.mom

Many thanks for your detailed analysis.  You're very kind indeed.

I have a few more questions -

How is the turnover rate of teachers?  and quality of teachers?  And whether teachers would keep in touch with parents?

How are the school facilities?  I noticed that the primary school campuses are quite old and small.  Since I still have no chance to visit the school campuses and there are not many pictures of campuses on its website so wish to know more from existing parents

From your point of view, would you say that the expensive tuition fee is value for money?

Sorry that I have too many questions.  

Awaiting your valuable sharing!

foolish.mom

youngmami,

I don't have the exact turnover rate of teachers, but it is obviously quite high. Some say it is normal because English teachers come from outside HK. Some return to their own countries and a few change to other IS in HK.

My kid's teachers all have good qualifications. Together with being native speakers, I have confidence when they teach English and Chinese and correct my kid's writings. Some are younger and energetic, but some are old and use older methods. Yew Chung teachers are quite autonomous in how to deliver a lesson, giving homework and teaching method. Thus it depends on your "luck" in whether your kid can have a good teacher and suits the kid.

As class is small and YC is "customer orientated", parents can have frequent, formal and informal communications with teachers. 2 formal interview a year. Parents can arrange extra meetings if needed. Parents can use handbook to communicate with teachers frequently. They also return phone calls. Some teachers use e-mail. Teachers can recognise most parents' faces. Lots of informal exchange of views through school functions.

Campus is really small. Playgound is too small (but they can still run and jump and play soccer). But computers are adequate and up-to-date models for kids to use (for projects and lessons). Lots of reading books!

It is difficult to judge value-for-money. Is dining in a hotel value-for-money when compare with fast food store? When I chose YC, I chose their IS approach, individual approach (small groups), bilingual education. There is no comparable school in Kowloon. If I go back 6 years, I would still choose YC for my kid.

Hope the above helps.

YC-MOM

My child used to study in Yew Chung. I have posted a lot other messages some time ago. Those who are interested, you need to search for them a bit. I still know kids who are still with Yew Chung and know what is going on.

Yew Chung are now also running a community college, surprisingly without much advertisement and publicity. Check out www.yccc.hk Heard that the fees are extremely low (when compared to the $200k debenture and $10K+ monthly fees of the secondary section). And they are using the same campus as those who paid that much more.

Just imagine why they are targeting do different customer base? What do they have in their heads?

Strong in both English & Chinese

There are only very few kids that are that strong in both English & Chinese. The majority of the kids are in fact bad at both English and Chinese. Why? Because their evaluations (eg. year end reports) are not accurate. What I saw was that, they rate most kids with very good reports. So the results? Kids get very nice report cards. Kids are happy, parents are happy. However, once a kid is compared to kids from other international schools (other good international schools, not the ones in par with Yew Chung), they are not really THAT good.

Yew Chung aims at using 30% of school time for Chinese, and achieving local school Chinese standard. This is only successful for around half of the kids.

I have reservation with this "success rate". I do not think the Chinese program is even "half" successful. A lot of home-grown Yew Chung kids would leave school before Year 7. Some left as early as Year 3-4. So the school are accepting a lot of kids from local schools to fill the vacancies (kids from other international schools would normally not switch to Yew Chung). Most kids that are very good at Chinese transfered from local schools. I would not say that the so called "good Chinese" is the "hard work" of Yew Chung.

Their self-edited Chinese text books are excellent in learning Chinese characters effectively. Some of my friends with kids in local schools borrow my text books to help teach their kids Chinese characters.

I do not agree. Their text books are not good. They are hard and not interesting. Most kids know the words because kids (and parents) study hard, yet the kids would very quickly forget the words soon because they do not have the chance to use the words.

I don't have the exact turnover rate of teachers, but it is obviously quite high. Some say it is normal because English teachers come from outside HK. Some return to their own countries and a few change to other IS in HK.

Yew Chung's teachers are poorly paid. It is normal for western teachers to move around but most teachers left Yew Chung because they were treated badly (their pay is very low and they are not respected by the management). Those teachers that are able to get a better job elsewhere (either within Hong Kong or in another country) would leave the school. Those that are still there are (1) old teachers that are waiting for retirement (2) younger teachers that are not as competent or competitive.

Campus is really small. Playgound is too small (but they can still run and jump and play soccer). But computers are adequate and up-to-date models for kids to use (for projects and lessons). Lots of reading books!

Primary campus is pathetically small. I would not say it is adequate for any proper sports games at all.

It is difficult to judge value-for-money. Is dining in a hotel value-for-money when compare with fast food store?

When I dine at a hotel and pay for a meal of $2000 per head, I am expecting to get quality food and services. At Yew Chung, you are paying 5 star hotel price but you are only getting a McDonald plain burger (not even a Big Mac). Not that I cannot afford the school fees, but I am a smart consumer. I do not think it is worth.

When I chose YC, I chose their IS approach, individual approach (small groups), bilingual education.

Most international schools can give you this. May be not the so-called bilingual education. But I do not think Yew Chung kids are exactly bilingual.

There is no comparable school in Kowloon. If I go back 6 years, I would still choose YC for my kid.

Hmmm. May be other parents can shed some light on whether there are schools as good in Kowloon?

In any case, I thought you are quite lucky to be able to get an offer from HKIS. I thought it is a good chance to leave Yew Chung. What I know is that a lot of Yew Chung parents want to gettheir kids out of the school and have failed in a lot of applications to other international schools or even DSS. In any case, good luck to you, whatever your choice is.

foolish.mom

Community college: It is YC's aim to provide through train education to tertiary level. Of course normal students will choose a university. It is just there to show that they have through train education.

Strong in both English & Chinese: I said "some kids". I know those kids and can count that there are at least 10%. The levels are of course not judged from the internal report cards. This year more than 30% of students in year 6 got a distinction or high distinction in English in "International Assessment" run by Australia. I consider that a distinction or above (when compare with HK students) is good, not even counting students who got a merit.
The kids good in Chinese are mostly from YC from kindergarten.

Chinese text books: I mentioned that "not all kids can learn Chinese successfully". Yes, the text books are not easy. But I think they are interesting and well-edited. My kid did not study hard but still can now read books for secondary local students and can write good compositions!

I don't think YC is a perfect school. But my kid got the necessary skills that I want: bilingual, creative, strong in writing and reading, and studying without pressure.

youngmami

原文章由 foolish.mom 於 08-8-5 14:17 發表
Community college: It is YC's aim to provide through train education to tertiary level. Of course normal students will choose a university. It is just there to show that they have through train educat ...

foolish.mom,

Really thanks for your detailed information and sharing!  I also read the comments from YC. MOM which are very different from yours.  Very obvious that some are happy with the school but some are not.  It's very natural I think.  All schools have happy/unhappy parents.  

I'm quite concerned about the campus issue.  If I pay such a high tuition fee, it's very reasonable to expect a much bigger campus.  The existing campuses of YC gave me an impression that the school looks more like a kind of 'informal' school providing ECA.  

I just come back from Shanghai.  My cousin's daughter is now studying in YC there.  The tuition fee is higher than that of HK (but many students are paid by their parents' employers) but they enjoy a very new and spacious campus which is much much better than those local schools of Shanghai so you would feel that the high tuition fee is justified.  But here in HK, it's so different.

I know kids from YC are accepted by other famous IS after Year 6 so I don't doubt its academic standard but only the campus.  Why primary school of YC can't be moved to the new campus?

foolish.mom

I think the management did try to move the primary students to the new secondary campus together with the secondary students. What I heard is that they can't get the necessary approval (from government?). Maybe primary students cannot stay in the same campus with secondary students? I am not sure. Other schools with primary and secondary sections at the same address should have some kind of boundary to separate them?

Yes, primary campuses are not appealling at all. But I consider other aspects are more important for a kid's education. The same old question: any other primary school in Kowloon can provide such a bilingual international education without learrning pressure?

Now we are choosing secondary school. We got the same conclusion. No school is perfect for us. We can only choose the one that better aligns with our goal and approach.

Tasha

Dear Foolish Mum,

Your child is moving from primary to secondary, right?
Based on what you said, I can tell that your kid had good times in YC primary.   But YC secondary is a totally different thing. I will be very surprised if one year from now, you will still feel happy about YC ( I mean secondary).

[ 本帖最後由 Tasha 於 08-8-23 00:42 編輯 ]

YC-MOM

原文章由 foolish.mom 於 08-8-7 18:17 發表
I think the management did try to move the primary students to the new secondary campus together with the secondary students. What I heard is that they can't get the necessary approval (from governmen ...

YC never said that they were going to use the new campus for primary school.
Secondary campus has always been meant to share with students of the community college. They have recently started to get students for their community college (check the website) at an extremely low school fees, ie around HK$4000 per month (compared to HK$12000+ per month plus HK$200000 debenture of the regular secondary student).
Now who are sponsoring who?
I heard that this has always been the arrangement. But they have told parents that they were not running the community college just last year.
Hear that they have agreed to run the community college when they got the piece of land from the government. And probably agreed not to charge students (community college) with high fees.

One more thing to think. What kind of students do you think they are going to get for the community college?

YC-MOM

I just come back from Shanghai.  My cousin's daughter is now studying in YC there.  The tuition fee is higher than that of HK (but many students are paid by their parents' employers) but they enjoy a very new and spacious campus which is much much better than those local schools of Shanghai so you would feel that the high tuition fee is justified.  But here in HK, it's so different.

YC in Shanghai and Beijing are better than YC in Hong Kong. Both in terms of campus and teacher (and student) quality. Yet, YC in those areas are still (just like YC in Hong Kong) one of the worst IS. There are some other IS in Beijing and Shanghai that as much much better. But of course, those are not easy to get in.

I know kids from YC are accepted by other famous IS after Year 6 so I don't doubt its academic standard but only the campus.  

Only top students can get accepted by other IS.
Yes, there are YC students that were able to get admission to other good IS, eg ESF, GSIS, HKIS, etc. But we are talking about only those top students.
The fact is that the general standard is still very low.
And this is also why most really strong and bright students would not want to stay in YC.

NLai

Any CIS SECONDARY mum here?  what about school life? very worry , american style or chinese? what time they finishe school? drugs problem is seriouse or not? have many local chinese or half half?

foolish.mom

We are only new to CIS secondary for 1.5 month & can provide only the following observation and information:
1. Majority of the students are Chinese from different places (HK, mainland, Taiwan, Singapore) or mixed (one of the parents is Chinese). The reason may be because of the strong Chinese contents of the curriculum. Students communicate with each other in English. 70 to 80% of the students study Chinese as a 1st language. The % will reduce to ~60% in year 11.
2. American style + IB style in learning and teaching
3. Daily homework is not much (at most 1 hour). Heard that they need to work very hard during project submission periods of each subject.
4. Finish school at 3pm
5. A lot of activities & sports. A general comment is that the students can both play hard and have high academic performance.

NLai

Dear,
thanks for your info. their administrative department is more chinese or foreigner?
The teacher have more chinese or foreigner? As you may know some IS say they are international, but actually they are very local???
What about other kids? good sense or very american?

what time they start school hour? Your kids start french this year?

Manymany thanks!

foolish.mom

Administrative department: no idea
Teachers: All westerners or ABC except Chinese teachers
Kids good sense or american: no idea what you are asking
Start school at 7:55am
Yes, my kid starts French this year. If the students don't choose French, they can choose Spanish or other non-language art-related subjects as elective

Hope it helps!