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教育王國 討論區 小學雜談 Oxford Reading Tree ORT
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Oxford Reading Tree ORT

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19492
發表於 07-12-11 16:15 |顯示全部帖子
原文章由 鳳梨 於 07-12-11 15:42 發表
呢度係"小學雜談", 已經去度"文學修養", 勁

女拔都係中學先用戲劇教學?




節錄自女小拔網頁:

TheatreArts Education in English has also been introduced into the formal English curriculum for all Primary 4 and 5 girls during oral lessons to develop eloquence and confidence in using English when performing for a large audience.  Along these lines of drama in education, the School organizes extra-curricular activities ranging from Shakespearean Drama performances to Chinese Story-telling and Verse-speaking Competitions,as well as the Putonghua Variety Show to encourage pupils to further develop and strengthen their language skills in meaningful and interesting manners.

[ 本文章最後由 ChiChiPaPa 於 07-12-11 16:31 編輯 ]

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740
發表於 07-12-11 16:33 |顯示全部帖子
我囝囝學校小一開始都有莎士比亞drama上, 好多小學而家都好著重drama, 如培僑, 但咁細嘅小朋友真係未到呢過層次囉..去欣賞文學嘅精髓, 仲要英文程度有番咁上吓, 當然女拔緊係例外...英文程度超晒班   

不過drama真係可令小朋友夠膽去表現自己, 増強自信就係事實..



原文章由 ChiChiPaPa 於 07-12-11 16:15 發表


節錄自女小拔網頁:

TheatreArts Education in English has also been introduced into the formal English curriculum for all Primary 4 and 5 girls during oral lessons to develop eloquence and confidence i ...

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144
發表於 07-12-11 17:20 |顯示全部帖子
(1) I think reading for leisure will help learning of English a lot. Actually there is much research evidence for the level of proficiency being related to the amount of extra-class reading. So do not assume that leisure reading is not part of learning English.

<=== You are misreading my message. Leisure reading helps, of course.  But ORT is not leisure reading. That's it.

(2) If you would like to check whether kids are choosing the correct ORT stages, Oxford has published comprehension worksheets to go with the books. Those are much better tools for judging reading at appropriate levels.

<=== I never purchased those worksheets. In fact, I never purchased any ORT books. The kids read a lot of them and there was no point buying the whole set. There must be many ways of judging the kids level. Your way probably suit you better. But I am asking for more, that's it. My kids, at those younger age (before 7), had to read to me aloud every now and then, so that I know that they can really pronounce the words. Once they learnt the word, they are free to read by themselves the same book the next day. Some kids recognise the words, or even know the meaning, but they cannot pronounce it. I just do not see how a kid that keep skipping words can be qualified to go to another level.

(3) For in class reading (of the same book) or at home reading, comprehension level can be checked by discussions on the content of the books.

<=== Discission is only part of the assessment procedures. Like I said, anyone can know how the story goes and still cannot pronounce the words. For some books, you can practically skip paragraphs and still know what's going on. He comprehends the book but he is not learning the words. At least, I do not think the ORT was designed for children to skip words.

(4) Reading aloud is a poor way of checking understanding. Many of us may have the experience of reading a piece which we know every words but the meaning is difficult to grasp. If you know all the words, you can read aloud. [Actually, I can read aloud a piece of German without knowing the meanings of most of the words]. However, with complex sentence structures and complicated lines of thought, the meaning can be difficult to follow. Learning to read is reading for meaning, not sound.

<=== I never said reading aloud is for checking understanding. Reading aloud is to check whether a kid can pronounce the word. Then, it has to be followed by discussions and questions. So it is takes both. You need to know how to read the word and the meaning as well. PLUS you need to comprehend the story. You seem to be doing half only.

(5) Go and visit any Kumon centre and you will know that this graded read aloud method has been the standard practice of Kumon. It has been shown to be of very limited use in both Japan (English) and Hong Kong (English and Putonghua).

<=== I am not a fan of Kumon, in particular their English or Chinese programs.

(6) Especially the later stages and the tree-top series, the language used is not for reading aloud. Those of us with experience will know that we have to use different language structures in writing a speech and writing a paper report. The same applies to writing stories to be read aloud and to be read silently.

<=== Reading aloud, like I said, is for beginners like your child. So I was focusing on the ORT only. And the reading aloud is purely for assessment purpose. They can freely read on their own the first or second time, but for me to decide whether my children are reading books of the appropriate level, I need to ask them to read aloud, AT LEAST ONCE. For advanced readers, like upper primary students, there might be no need to read aloud at all. No one would read aloud the Harry Potter Series. You seem to have misunderstood my message.

(7) That is why oxford has prepared drama scripts to accompany the school set. The drama scripts have been designed with the purpose of reading aloud. So if read aloud activities are needed in school. Those drama scripts should be used.

<=== All story books can be used as "reading aloud" tools.

There is nothing personal. There would not be serios harm by occasionally asking kids to read aloud. However, I do think that there are much better ways to use ORT and its related resource packs.

<=== Have I been personal? I do not even know who you are. I was here to share my experience and views. There are many ways to suit different people. But it is unfortunate if my views have been misunderstood and misquoted.

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161
發表於 07-12-11 17:44 |顯示全部帖子
Have I misunderstood your point? Is it your point that ORT for learning English should be read aloud?

If that is not your original point, I am sorry that I cannot follow your post. However, it seems to me it is still the case (with AT LEAST ONCE this time but not the previous post). So I still would suggest a discussion about whether it is good to read aloud ORT. A discussion means that I am not accusing you of anything but I am stating my reasons.

My Kid got plenty of read aloud activities. Actually, she just got a certificate of merit from the School Speech Festival a few days ago. However, I only ask her to read poems, rhymes, drama scripts .... The only story book she has been asked to read aloud is "Cat in the Hat" -- but that is written for the purpose of reading aloud.

So, my main point is that there are many materials written for reading aloud and I do not think ORT is one of them.

[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-11 17:51 編輯 ]

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161
發表於 07-12-11 17:54 |顯示全部帖子
There are actually English drama activities for kindergarten kids.

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144
發表於 07-12-11 20:44 |顯示全部帖子
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-11 17:44 發表
Have I misunderstood your point? Is it your point that ORT for learning English should be read aloud?

If that is not your original point, I am sorry that I cannot follow your post. However, it seems  ...



It seems that we have all along been talking about very different expectations/values.

The discussion started out when you said that you did not care whether you child can read the words in the ORT books before letting her move on to the next level. I therefore raised that this should not be the proper way of assessing a child.

I never said that all books should be read aloud. And I never said that children of all ages should read books aloud. I was talking about young beginners that are still reading the ORT books.

FYI, reading aloud is a good way of learning a new language even for adult. Without asking the student to read aloud, how can you be so sure that the pronounciation is correct?

In any case, if you still insist that without knowing how to pronounce words in those ORT and your child can still move on to the next level, then let it be.

I want to be more direct this time --- just this last time. Your child is only a beginner in learning English. Just be humble and do things step by step. Do not compare to more advanced learners, your child is just not one of them yet. There is nothing wrong doing things slower in the beginning. Learning a language is not easy. Just do what a beginner should be doing and let her move on at proper pace.

This is the last message I am going to write. It quite tiring reading and typing so many words within a day. I think there is no point dragging on. We are both not wrong, just that we have very different priorities and values.

Last, I never have doubt in your child's English level. I am sure she is good, well, she has to be good, right?

Good day.

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3765
發表於 07-12-12 00:55 |顯示全部帖子
估唔到咁多人發表意見, 我睇小朋友學英文, 眞係好多家長关注既問題。

其實都唔洗爭論得咁面紅耳熱, 我淨係好奇問吓小一學生讀ORT stage幾咁簡單。

以我既小朋友為例, 佢讀中文幼兒園, 今年升上一間中文小學, 我地响屋企都係講中文既; 前幾日見佢响學校, 囉左本ORT stage 5 <<irates Adventure>>返屋企, 咁咪叫佢讀比我地聽吓, 佢都一字不漏讀晒出離; 所以就好奇問吓多位小一學生讀緊ORT stage幾嘍o

[ 本文章最後由 中天英 於 07-12-12 00:57 編輯 ]

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343
發表於 07-12-12 11:13 |顯示全部帖子
請問Magic Tree House此套書,是否適合小一學生閱讀?

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11990
發表於 07-12-12 21:23 |顯示全部帖子
原文章由 easymum 於 07-12-12 11:13 發表
請問Magic Tree House此套書,是否適合小一學生閱讀?


這套書的深度,比中三的全港系統評估的英文閱讀理解深了不少,如果小一就能讀懂,那麼小六時.......

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161
發表於 07-12-12 23:44 |顯示全部帖子
原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-12 21:23 發表


這套書的深度,比中三的全港系統評估的英文閱讀理解深了不少,如果小一就能讀懂,那麼小六時.......


為什麼?

Magic Tree House是寫初小學生看的. 我估和同出版社的Dr Seuss深淺差不多. Dr Seuss 的我囡囡(k3)己看得明, 也可讀出聲(因為句字是rhyming的, 所以可以用來朗讀).

不過我無買過Magic Tree House, 所以是靠估.

如果想有點non-fiction元素, Scholastic的Usborne Beginners不錯.

[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-12 23:45 編輯 ]

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11990
發表於 07-12-13 01:35 |顯示全部帖子
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-12 23:44 發表


為什麼?

Magic Tree House是寫初小學生看的. 我估和同出版社的Dr Seuss深淺差不多. Dr Seuss 的我囡囡(k3)己看得明, 也可讀出聲(因為句字是rhyming的, 所以可以用來朗讀).

不過我無買過Magic Tree House, 所以 ...


星級國民:

基本上同意你在此論題中所講的主要觀點,不過,大概由於你及你的小朋友的英文太棒,可能你對香港學生的一般水平不怎樣了解。

以下是ChiChiPaPa提供的2006中三的TSA reading paper

http://www.systemassessment.edu.hk/sec/2006sec-paper/S3Eng/2006_TSA_9ER1.pdf

全港中三學生做這份卷的平均成績是54分,看過這份卷後,你便可以知道香港中三學生的平均閱讀水平,相信你會大吃一驚。

今年年初,當我女兒還覺得Magic Tree House太深時,她已經做了這份中三試題,結果取得大約八十分,所以我知道Magic Tree House比中三的TSA是較深的。

到今天,女兒的英文有了一點兒的進步,開始覺得Picture Books太低B,已經開始看最淺易的Junior Fiction,而最喜歡的正是Magic Tree House

天外有天,人外有人,小女的英文閱讀能力比起普通學生來說無疑是超班的,但比起真正的高手卻仍然是相差九條街。

eviepa

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343
發表於 07-12-13 09:21 |顯示全部帖子
eviepa,

可否請問您小孩現在讀幾年級?

easymum


原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-13 01:35 發表


星級國民:

基本上同意你在此論題中所講的主要觀點,不過,大概由於你及你的小朋友的英文太棒,可能你對香港學生的一般水平不怎樣了解。

以下是ChiChiPaPa提供的2006中三的TSA reading paper:

http://www.systemasses ...

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2713
發表於 07-12-13 09:29 |顯示全部帖子
eviepa,

Thks for sharing!

哪份中三TSA paper 真的很淺異,難怪難怪.

原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-13 01:35 發表


星級國民:

基本上同意你在此論題中所講的主要觀點,不過,大概由於你及你的小朋友的英文太棒,可能你對香港學生的一般水平不怎樣了解。

以下是ChiChiPaPa提供的2006中三的TSA reading paper:

http://www.systemasses ...

Rank: 4


740
發表於 07-12-13 10:15 |顯示全部帖子
小朋友一睇開chapter books, 你再叫佢哋睇picture books, 佢哋真係會覺得幼稚

不過奇怪上到中學先開始睇"magic tree house", 咁小學時睇什麼書呢?  我覺得小一至小二應可以睇得明80%內容.

TSA個幾篇閱讀理解, 真係好淺吓, 同我哋本小二用既wide range差唔多, 我都要比囝囝做吓先


原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-13 01:35 發表


星級國民:

基本上同意你在此論題中所講的主要觀點,不過,大概由於你及你的小朋友的英文太棒,可能你對香港學生的一般水平不怎樣了解。

以下是ChiChiPaPa提供的2006中三的TSA reading paper:

http://www.systemasses ...

[ 本文章最後由 鳳梨 於 07-12-13 10:23 編輯 ]

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10361
發表於 07-12-13 11:14 |顯示全部帖子
magic tree house 的確應該是給初小學生看的。
先前大家討論的 oxford reading tree 算係 reading 的 "入門版",能讀 ort 至某個 level ( 能力高的孩子,其實不需要都讀晒 ort ),就可以開始選讀簡單的 chapter books。magic tree house 就是很好的選擇,其實故事很簡單的,每本 60+ 頁,其中加插很多大大的圖畫,字數因此其實很少;故事是說兩個小朋友去不同的時空的冒險故事,當然,其中加插一些資料性的內容。類似的書很多,一般這類 "進階" 的書本,可以算是讀 ort 這些 levelled reader,後的 "過度期" 讀物。國際學校初小的孩子都可以自行閱讀,當然間中都會有個別的字唔識讀,但在父母教正確讀音和意思後,可以很快學會。如果係本地學校的學生,我覺得初小都可以由家長從旁教導以閱讀,如果係高小,應該自行讀都冇問題。翻看, magic tree house 的書,你會看到其實大部份的字都唔深。這類薄薄的簡單的 chapter books,書的 size 和印刷方式,就像一本真正的 fiction,而唔係好似 ort 較像孩子書,小朋友讀 magic tree house 這類書,可以感受下讀一本 "書",孩子一本 magic tree house 在手,一定會感到自己好似 "大個仔/女" 了。慢慢下來,孩子就有信心讀更長/厚的 chapter books;其實有較長/厚的書,不一定更難。

其實,每個孩子的能力不同,早前有人話佢孩子每天可以讀 3 本 200-500 頁的書 ( 1 年讀 1000 本 ),都引起一輪討論。自己孩子的能力,最好是自己測試一下,帶孩子到圖書館借來,或者三數十元買一本回來給他讀讀 ( 商務間中會有 $100 四本的特價 ),看看是否有很多字不會讀,如果真的很多,可以遲些再試讀。

每個人都有不同的能力,有 d 人數學叻,有 d 畫畫叻,有 d 游水叻。語文本身都包含好多野,很少人 (成人和小孩) 能是語文全才,聽寫讀講都好,即使係國際學校學生,甚至洋人孩子,都有講得流利,但讀/寫都差的;中國人也不是個個中文都好喇。我仔係國際學校學生,閱讀 (和理解) 能力高,但叫佢寫野,就帶你遊一個大花園都埋唔到尾;佢係寫作組織能力不好,表達能力亦較弱。因此,不需要覺得某本書,個個孩子都一定必然會讀,家長亦不需要奇怪為何人家的孩子那麼遜;如各下的孩子棒,恭喜你,但坦白說,如果本地學校小一能自行閱讀 magic tree house ( 要識讀晒 d 字,唔係靠估   ),始終唔係 norm。

原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-13 01:35 發表


以下是ChiChiPaPa提供的2006中三的TSA reading paper

http://www.systemassessment.edu.hk/sec/2006sec-paper/S3Eng/2006_TSA_9ER1.pdf

全港中三學生做這份卷的平均成績是54分,看過這份卷後,你便可以知道香港中三學生的平均閱讀水平,相信你會大吃一驚。


多謝分享網站,完來有個官方評估網,今晚都比亞仔試做。

我覺得你提供的文章,應該比 magic tree house 深一點點。而且讀 magic tree house 基本上可以好 "不負擔任",讀完就算,當然,可能媽媽會問問孩子內容,但都只是輕鬆的閒談。但做 assessment 就唔同,要乖乖的答問題,要分析文章,又唔可以大意寫錯串錯,講明係 assessment,當然唔似我地話比仔女 "玩玩" 的心情,話冇壓力就假。大家都知,其實學生的水平真的可以可參差,我認識的幾個讀 elite primary school 的小孩,英文真係好好,媽媽亦 aggressive,小一就要小朋友讀 charlie and the chocolate factory;當然,差的亦不少又是事實。

無論如何,我覺得中三份 assessment 真的對很多學生會係好容易,其實會唔會有不少學生是拿較高分呢,只是超低分的學生亦不少,因而拉低了平均分?我相信成績不會是 bell distribution 罷。

好奇問問,你覺得中文和數學的 assessment papers 合理嗎?

[ 本文章最後由 nintendo 於 07-12-13 17:24 編輯 ]

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343
發表於 07-12-13 11:57 |顯示全部帖子
好多謝大家給予的寶貴意見。我會嘗試讓小女看,但我見書局並不齊此套書,想請問哪裏買會比較齊及平宜?


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發表於 07-12-13 15:22 |顯示全部帖子
提示: 作者被禁止或刪除 內容自動屏蔽

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10361
發表於 07-12-13 17:22 |顯示全部帖子
原文章由 easymum 於 07-12-13 11:57 發表
好多謝大家給予的寶貴意見。我會嘗試讓小女看,但我見書局並不齊此套書,想請問哪裏買會比較齊及平宜?


香港零售計,商務書局的 $100 四本算是最平。

如果要再平,可以請學校代你向香港 scholastic book club 直接定購,但不是經常有特價定購的,我朋友在早幾個月前 ( 大概是 10 月 book club ) 向他們定了一整套 ( 也不是齊的,有大約廿多本 ),只是四百多港元,但近兩個月的 book club 已沒有這個超平特價了。

其實,也不必要買一整套,反正故事個個都獨立的,市面上有很多其他選擇,商務的 $100 四本特價書,很多也不錯。另外,圖書館也有呀,你可以去借一兩本,試試你女兒喜不喜歡看在說。

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11990
發表於 07-12-13 21:33 |顯示全部帖子
原文章由 easymum 於 07-12-13 09:21 發表
eviepa,

可否請問您小孩現在讀幾年級?

easymum


Now Primary 6

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11990
發表於 07-12-13 21:37 |顯示全部帖子
原文章由 nintendo 於 07-12-13 11:14 發表

好奇問問,你覺得中文和數學的 assessment papers 合理嗎?


未看過。