教育王國
標題: 4所國際學校 非本地生比例未達標 [打印本頁]
作者: penp0319 時間: 23-4-16 07:44 標題: 4所國際學校 非本地生比例未達標
https://www.stheadline.com/edu-news/3220598/4%E6%89%80%E5%9C%8B%E9%9A%9B%E5%AD%B8%E6%A0%A1-%E9%9D%9E%E6%9C%AC%E5%9C%B0%E7%94%9F%E6%AF%94%E4%BE%8B%E6%9C%AA%E9%81%94%E6%A8%99
似乎本地生入英基會更難？
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-16 12:38
penp0319 發表於 23-4-16 07:44 
https://www.stheadline.com/edu-news/3220598/4%E6%89%80%E5%9C%8B%E9%9A%9B%E5%AD%B8%E6%A0%A1-%E9%9D%9E ...
其實之前兩個學年唔係話因為COVID無人來港，可以獲得豁免而收多啲本地生嗎？教育局出爾反爾，玩死學校
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-16 14:26 標題: 回覆樓主:
唔怕, 咁多高才申請來港, 好快達標
作者: Youweird 時間: 23-4-16 15:26
今年cdnis全线爆满，还有长长的waitlist
估计各大IS情况差不多
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-16 20:08
Looks like quite a number of people (both from mainland China and overseas) are coming back this year, so should be able to meet target going forward (meaning more difficult for no fp no debenture parents)
作者: dem0cracy 時間: 23-4-17 09:45
回覆 mandy_ng207 的帖子
有放寬呀...不過只限兩個學年。
https://www.legco.gov.hk/yr2023/english/fc/fc/w_q/edb-e.pdf
(p. 164-166)
Since 2007, school sponsoring bodies (SSBs) that are allocated school premises or sites arerequired by the Education Bureau (EDB) to enter into a service agreement with EDB. Theagreement terms include a requirement on the percentage of non-local students to be admitted.These international schools, which commenced operation on their new campuses from the2009/10 to 2018/19 school years, were required under the service agreement to enroll no lessthan 50% of non-local students, and the percentage has been raised to 70% by EDB since2009. When SSBs submitted proposals for SAE, they acknowledged and agreed that theinformation provided (including the proposed minimum percentage of non-local students tobe admitted) would only be used for SAE applications. We are therefore unable to disclosethe requirement on the percentage of non-local students to be admitted by individualinternational schools.
Amid the COVID-19 epidemic, some non-local students might move back to their hometownswith their families, resulting in a higher than usual dropout rate among non-local students.Therefore, in light of the actual circumstances of individual schools, we temporarily relaxedthe requirement on the percentage of non-local students to a limited extent in the 2020/21 and2021/22 school years for several newly-established international schools. Nevertheless,their student population should still comprise mainly of non-local students.
In the 2021/22 school year, 16 international schools subject to the service agreement wererequired to allocate a percentage ranging from 50% to 85% of school places to non-localstudents. Among them, 3 schools failed to meet the respective student mix requirements.The percentages of non-local students over their total student population ranged from 50% to78%.
In the 2022/23 school year, 16 international schools subject to the service agreement arerequired to allocate a percentage ranging from 50% to 98% of school places to non-localstudents. Among them, 4 schools have failed to meet the respective student mix requirements. The percentages of non-local students over their total student populationranged from 49% to 71%.
According to the above information, 3 international schools that entered into the serviceagreement have failed to meet the student mix requirement for 2 consecutive school years.Moreover, under the phasing-out arrangement of the recurrent government subvention for theEnglish Schools Foundation (ESF), ESF should maintain the student mix as when the relevantarrangement was finalised, i.e. keeping the percentage of non-local students at no less than70% of their overall student population. In the 2021/22 and 2022/23 school years, non-localstudents account for 67% and 65% of ESF’s student population respectively. We will, inaccordance with the existing mechanism, write to the schools concerned to remind them toobserve and comply with the student mix requirement, and urge them to put appropriatemeasures in place to improve the situation.
作者: shelbylks28 時間: 23-4-17 10:44
知唔知另外係邊3間
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-17 12:16
dem0cracy 發表於 23-4-17 09:45
回覆 mandy_ng207 的帖子
有放寬呀...不過只限兩個學年。
本帖最後由 mandy_ng207 於 23-4-17 12:17 編輯
咪就係搞笑囉，咁放寬嗰兩年收返嚟嘅local學生會升班㗎嘛，之後又唔放寬，唔通之後嗰幾年全部收non-local人嗎？學校都有自己嘅收生標準，例如兄弟姊妹要優先收（香港本地學校係必收生添），咁家姐阿哥香港護照，細佬妹都係香港護照，唔通唔收？
學校今次真係比佢哋玩死
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-17 13:34
mandy_ng207 發表於 23-4-17 12:16
本帖最後由 mandy_ng207 於 23-4-17 12:17 編輯
咪就係搞笑囉，咁放寬嗰兩年收返嚟嘅local學生會升班㗎 ...
I think the IS will most likely reject a lot of local students to make the total % back to 70%...you can imagine, ESF's is back to 65% at 2022/23. So for them, at least K1/P1 where mass intake happens, they must accept close perhaps 80-90% of non-local students to bring the average back up to 70%...so those local without passport and sibling priority will probably find it very hard...
But flip side is it is only for these 5 schools, the others should be more or less the same.
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-17 13:56
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-17 13:34
I think the IS will most likely reject a lot of local students to make the total % back to 70%...yo ...
ESF schools are considered as a whole, including all its primary and secondary schools. Usually the HK side schools have more westerners but the situation has changed since COVID, now their enrollments cannot compensate for the high percentage of local students admitted at other ESF schools. In order to reach 80% non-local students acceptance across all campuses, I think there might be schools who will reject local passport holders even if they are willing to pay debentures…do you think so?
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-17 14:08
回覆 mandy_ng207 的帖子
I don't know, I hope not. But if the % requirement is applied to all levels, then yes the intake for local studetns should be minimal...but in the end, it depends on if the EDB will give them more leeway... now it is not like expats cannot find schools, rather a lot of expats are leaving/have left, leading to the drop in the ratio.
I guess it will depends on how many of them will come back...I think as long as the IS can demonstrate to the EDB that they are willing to take on expats, the EDB will not make things too difficult for them and mandate them to take all non-local family only.
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-17 14:15
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-17 14:08
回覆 mandy_ng207 的帖子
I don't know, I hope not. But if the % requirement is applied to all levels ...
What if it is a way to deter local families from applying IS, so the local schools won’t face a dramatic drop in student numbers?
Just a wild guess, haha
作者: BlossomAlmond 時間: 23-4-17 15:03
mandy_ng207 發表於 23-4-17 14:15
What if it is a way to deter local families from applying IS, so the local schools won’t face a dr ...
咁又唔似，國際學校要收幾多外國護照、幾多本地生喺創立學校嘅時候已經定咗。而且疫情放寬嘅其中一個考慮因素，係因為啲外國人嚟唔到香港。而家疫情過去了，政府assume 所有嘢都復常，包括以為外國家庭，繼續會流入香港。
作者: 964000 時間: 23-4-17 15:06
其實ESF冇咗政府資助後，而家好多expat都afford唔到，以前幾千一個月，以家小學都12000, 我朋友外國人在香港是classic Musician, 一個養4個，住又點都有d要求，都話供唔起2個ESF. 主要都係D金融，專業人士，MNC, old monies等高入息expats，同當然仲有班IS教職員先afford 到，所以就算多expats回來，而家都要「高收入」個班先係ESF target.
不過香港出名人工高交稅少，睇吓條數點計啦，但外國人一定冇以咁多「紅利」了
作者: 964000 時間: 23-4-17 15:15
mandy_ng207 發表於 23-4-17 14:15
What if it is a way to deter local families from applying IS, so the local schools won’t face a dr ...
If they can’t get in IS, I think many will go overseas. In the past it’s not easy for local students to change to IS, for last two years, it’s much easier.
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-17 15:19
964000 發表於 23-4-17 15:15
If they can’t get in IS, I think many will go overseas. In the past it’s not easy for local stude ...
That’s why I think the schools will suffer under such policies…those who can pay (with local passports) could not be given a seat, while those who have foreign passports would not be able to pay. How could the schools secure enough income for their teaching and ancillary staffs?
And it didn’t do any good to the local school admissions afterall.
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-17 15:27
回覆 mandy_ng207 的帖子
I think it is mostly the low-second to third-tiered IS that is going to suffer. For first tiers, which everyone is looking for, it will be BAU
作者: kytso 時間: 23-4-17 16:10
回覆 mandy_ng207 的帖子
Well, you can never know whether there is any hidden agenda....
What is certain is that with Hong Kong's covid policy the last few years, quite a few expat families left Hong Kong, most may be for good and is quite understandable (it is no joke to relocate a family). It appears that the authority is expecting those left will move back magically.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-17 16:34 標題: 回覆樓主:
近日報導星加玻租金標升, 甚至加2至4成, 有expat話唔排除走, 可能有少部分會返來
作者: 964000 時間: 23-4-17 17:26
mandy_ng207 發表於 23-4-17 15:19
That’s why I think the schools will suffer under such policies…those who can pay (with local pass ...
ESF won’t suffer too much, just 5% shortage should be filled up easily.
Second/third tiers IS should suffer more, nowadays it’s wiser to set up as “private schools” than as “international schools”.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-17 17:58
https://www.inmediahk.net/node/% ... F%E5%85%A5%E8%AE%80
"【獨媒報導】香港出生率不足加上移民潮，適齡學生數字下跌而導致部分小學面臨殺校。立法會特別財委會上，教育界朱國強稱部分國際學校違反規定超額收取本地生，「間接造成縮班殺校」，要求仿效內地做法，限制本地生入讀國際學校。教育局長蔡若蓮指不應簡化問題，即使限制本地生讀本港國際學校，「是否會返公營系統呢？」她認為有機會將學生迫到鄰近國家，或大灣區的國際學校，不利香港吸引人才"
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-17 19:02
964000 發表於 23-4-17 17:26
ESF won’t suffer too much, just 5% shortage should be filled up easily.
Second/third tiers IS shou ...
But the campuses of “private schools” are not comparable to those who obtained a rather large piece of land from the government at a cheap rent. New IS like Malvern, CAIS (butterfly valley campus) should be among those. However these are the ones that have to sign contract with the government.
ESF is really value for money, and the competition for local passport holders will be really keen from now on.
作者: 964000 時間: 23-4-17 19:35
mandy_ng207 發表於 23-4-17 19:02
But the campuses of “private schools” are not comparable to those who obtained a rather large pie ...
Back in 10 years ago, there was a real shortage of IS spots for expats, I remembered it’s been explored on新聞透視, the government hence has approved a lot of new IS, including Harrow.
However it ends up in super expensive school fees which many expats can’t afford, especially the hefty debentures, and probably has overdone with too much supply. I think it won’t happen anymore.
作者: jennyp 時間: 23-4-17 22:10
回覆 shelbylks28 的帖子
根據財委會文件，在2020/21學年，國際學校超收本地生的比例由31.2%%至89.2%不等，當中，宣道會劉平齋紀念國際學校的本地生佔比最高，148個學生之中，有132個是本地生，佔比達89.2%；其次是京斯敦國際學校，261個學生中有77.8%是本地生；第三是耀中國際學校，959個學生中有71.8%是本地生，三間學校的國際生人數只介乎約三成至一成左右。原文網址: 國際學校逾半超收本地生 宣道會劉平齋近九成為本地生 | 香港01 https://www.hk01.com/article/612 ... articlecopy&utm_medium=referral
這是上兩個學年的數據
作者: kooliestgirl 時間: 23-4-18 07:48
jennyp 發表於 23-4-17 22:10
回覆 shelbylks28 的帖子
根據財委會文件，在2020/21學年，國際學校超收本地生的比例由31.2%%至89.2%不等 ...
知唔知邊度有官方數據睇?
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-18 07:54
回覆 jennyp 的帖子
wow almost 90%...
but I wonder if the government is ok with many of these schools with such high % of local students, why would they bother other schools with slight deviation from the agreed % of non-local students..
作者: dem0cracy 時間: 23-4-18 09:20
回覆 kooliestgirl 的帖子
Data on local/non-local % of all international schools used to be published upon queries from legislators. But somehow the data have not been released these two years (probably because the legislators haven't asked, or have asked questions differently). The latest released data is from 2021/22:
https://www.edb.gov.hk/attachment/en/about-edb/press/legco/replies-to-fc/21-22-w-edb-e.pdf
(p.450-454)
作者: dem0cracy 時間: 23-4-18 09:36
shelbylks28 發表於 23-4-17 10:44
知唔知另外係邊3間
教育局冇直接點名，但就有講邊16間國際學校自2006年來獲分配校舍(因而subject to specific quotas)：
ASHK
Carmel
CAIS
FIS - Chai Wan
FIS - TKO
GSIS - PFL
Harrow
HKA
ICHK
Kellett - Kowloon Bay
Malvern
NAIS - Lam Tin
SIS
Shrewsbury
Harbour School
IMS
對照番早幾年的收生比例，可以大概估到邊幾間比較難meet quota。
作者: dem0cracy 時間: 23-4-18 09:49
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-18 07:54
回覆 jennyp 的帖子
wow almost 90%...
要收一定%非本地生的規定，其實只有ESF及“2006年起參與校舍分配工作，獲政府提供空置校舍/土地的國際學校”才須遵守。
新聞提到的劉平齋、Kingston不在此限。
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-18 09:55
I see, but at least, to be an international school, shouldn't it have at least 50% non-local students? or just the provision of non-local curriculum will enable them to be named international school?
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-18 10:14
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-18 09:55
I see, but at least, to be an international school, shouldn't it have at least 50% non-local student ...
There are many “international” kindergartens out there offering local curriculum. A name doesn’t mean anything. The ESF schools don’t even bear the word “international”.
However, a service agreement with EDB is important for a school, if the school cannot comply, EDB has the right to take further action which may affect the actual operation of the school.
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-18 10:22
dem0cracy 發表於 23-4-18 09:20
回覆 kooliestgirl 的帖子
Data on local/non-local % of all international schools used to be publishe ...
Thank you for the detailed information!
作者: kytso 時間: 23-4-18 10:23
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-18 09:55
I see, but at least, to be an international school, shouldn't it have at least 50% non-local student ...
It really depends on the agreements with the government when the schools were granted lands or premises from the government. Those long established IS may not even have such ratio restrictions.
作者: kytso 時間: 23-4-18 10:26
mandy_ng207 發表於 23-4-18 10:14
There are many “international” kindergartens out there offering local curriculum. A name doesn’t ...
Query if the government will revoke a license of an international school? This sends a very bad message to the society, at least not consistent with what the government has been saying - to retain talents.
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-18 10:31
回覆 mandy_ng207 的帖子
You are right, the name could be misleading...
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-18 10:38
回覆 kytso 的帖子
I think some of the schools are facing demand problems (i.e. no much non-local application in the first place), if there were expats applying, am sure they will be willing to take...but if you were an expat, will you pick ESF/Kellett/CDNIS etc. or LPC/YC?
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-18 10:43
I have a feeling despite the government claim that some IS should have at least 70% non-local, as long as there are no complaints from expats, they do not really care... Even if ESF failed 2 years, they just keep sending them "remainders"..
In the end, most of the IS charge full tuition and do not get any support from the government, so the government can reduce their spending on education a bit (especially now with budget deficit I assume each department will need to cut costs)...You can compare the "mercy" they have on the international school that does not require any support to the "ruthlessness" to the local school in Cheung Chau (no P1 class because of deficit of 1 student)...
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-18 11:04
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-18 10:43
I have a feeling despite the government claim that some IS should have at least 70% non-local, as lo ...
That’s what the EDB official means in her speech. She doesn’t care whether local schools will be closed down, but the offer of IS places to locals is a way to retain talent (and income tax for the government).
However it couldn’t go too extreme on local percentage as it may raise suspicion that HK students are escaping from the local curriculum (which is true) because of its failure. Someone will be unhappy about this.
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-18 11:06
kytso 發表於 23-4-18 10:26
Query if the government will revoke a license of an international school? This sends a very bad me ...
Just by increasing rent will be enough to kill a school, especially when it already struggles for students (those that are not sought after by expats)
作者: lovelysnake 時間: 23-4-18 11:17
964000 發表於 23-4-17 17:26
ESF won’t suffer too much, just 5% shortage should be filled up easily.
Second/third tiers IS shou ...
many HK people has foriegn passport like me, so IS seats will fill up very fast
作者: lovebb2 時間: 23-4-18 12:11
penp0319 發表於 23-4-16 07:44
https://www.stheadline.com/edu-news/3220598/4%E6%89%80%E5%9C%8B%E9%9A%9B%E5%AD%B8%E6%A0%A1-%E9%9D%9E ...
https://www.inmediahk.net/node/%E6%94%BF%E7%B6%93/%E6%9C%B1%E5%9C%8B%E5%BC%B7%E7%A8%B1%E5%9C%8B%E9%9A%9B%E5%AD%B8%E6%A0%A1%E5%B0%8E%E8%87%B4%E6%9C%AC%E5%9C%B0%E6%AE%BA%E6%A0%A1-%E8%A6%81%E6%B1%82%E9%99%90%E5%88%B6%E6%9C%AC%E5%9C%B0%E7%94%9F%E5%85%A5%E8%AE%80
yes, 越來越難
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-18 13:23
I’m surprised Yew Chung has such a high % of local students. I thought it was a favourite for mainland Chinese (given bilingual and good brand name in China). And prc passport is considered foreign
作者: dem0cracy 時間: 23-4-18 13:47
bettyc123 發表於 23-4-18 13:23
I’m surprised Yew Chung has such a high % of local students. I thought it was a favourite for mainl ...
耀中(中學部)其實係private independent school ，按政府要求係要收不少於70%本地生。所以有香港永久居民身份證嘅大陸人/外國國籍嘅香港人，學校應該會報佢哋嘅local身份…
https://internationalschools.edb.hkedcity.net/private_independent_schools.php?lang=en
複雜到呢…
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-18 14:32
回覆 dem0cracy 的帖子
So the complaints are targeting the primary school then because secondary school doesn’t have the same requirement? But if you expect people to continue from primary to secondary -> how does one change from >70% non local to >70% local from year 6 to year 7! Of course, unless all the students have dual nationality
Even if the complaints are targeting primary only, I’m still surprised it has so many locals!
作者: dem0cracy 時間: 23-4-18 14:59
回覆 bettyc123 的帖子
EDB isn't concerned about Yew Chung primary school's non-local student % as it isn't among the 16 international schools under a service agreement... YC was merely highlighted in the news (along with Kingston, Think, etc) because the reporters didn't know what they were talking about.
作者: 964000 時間: 23-4-18 15:32
lovebb2 發表於 23-4-18 12:11
https://www.inmediahk.net/node/%E6%94%BF%E7%B6%93/%E6%9C%B1%E5%9C%8B%E5%BC%B7%E7%A8%B1%E5%9C%8B%E9% ...
求其一個無關重要的人提議up下，不用中標題黨計。
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-18 20:13 標題: 回覆樓主：
本帖最後由 poonseelai 於 23-4-18 20:14 編輯
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education/article/3217346/international-schools-hong-kong-lose-12-cent-non-local-students-4-years
lost 12% of non local students in 4 years
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-18 20:46
According to SCMP’s article, schools that fail to comply with the non-local student percentage requirements may face such penalties:
“The Education Bureau will take follow-up actions, including exercising the right to terminate or refuse to renew the service agreement and taking back the school premises and sites allocated.
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-18 21:21
mandy_ng207 發表於 23-4-18 20:46
According to SCMP’s article, schools that fail to comply with the non-local student percentage requ ...
Honestly I don't think they will go that far, the situation now is that there were a lot of dropouts by non-local during Covid, rather than ESF refusing to take in non-locals. When so many left, ESF still need to enroll students to pay the bills. If and when the non-locals come back, I am sure ESF will try to take in a bigger portion of non-local to bring it back up to 70%.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-19 15:01
https://hk.news.yahoo.com/%E9%A6 ... 1%82-065245684.html
"教育局稱，在疫情期間國際學校業界、相關領事和商會均曾向政府表示，因面對經營困難而希望增加彈性錄取非本地生。教育局表示，隨著香港全面恢復正常並積極引入更多外來投資及人才，預計國際學校將逐漸增加錄取非本地學生的比例"
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-19 16:15
回覆 poonseelai 的帖子
yeah, maybe more people are coming back...SIS just made a headline that they have paid BSD to buy additional apartments for the teachers:
https://ps.hket.com/article/3508082
香港全面對外通關後，外資機構高管可順利駐港，帶動住屋需求，有外資名校短短數月以3,413萬元，於南區連購3個單位作員工宿舍，估計涉及辣招稅近1,024萬元。市場消息指，一家新加坡國際學校，繼日前斥資1,780萬元購入鴨脷洲南灣3房後，連隨購入同區深灣軒及海怡半島共3個單位。例如深灣軒1座低層E室，實用面積480平方呎，2房，成交價845萬元，呎價17,604元，以及海怡半島28座低層D室，實用面積535平方呎，成交價788萬元，平均呎價14,729元，當中海怡半島的2房細單位，目前市場甚為渴盤，悉數叫價已高於800萬元以上。
而區內代理透露，該新加坡國際學校早於2010年開始在南區購買單位，至今共持有13個住宅單位，購入價介乎340萬至1,780萬元，購入價共達7,386萬元，估計市值逾2億元，全部用作員工宿舍，當中有6個位於海怡半島。
I guess that also tells with more people coming back, competition will start to heat up a bit indeed...
作者: Poyau 時間: 23-4-19 20:01
dem0cracy 發表於 23-4-18 09:36
教育局冇直接點名，但就有講邊16間國際學校自2006年來獲分配校舍(因而subject to specific quotas)：
ASH ...
5 school sites allocated
https://www.news.gov.hk/en/categories/school_work/html/2015/05/20150529_152055.lin.shtml
May 29, 2015
Secretary for Education Eddie Ng has announced that five operators have been selected to develop international schools at two vacant school premises and three greenfield sites.
The two vacant premises in Aberdeen and Tai Po were awarded to the Harbour School Foundation and ESOL Education HK. The schools will open in the 2016-17 school year.
The French International School "Victor Segalen" Association and Shrewsbury International School Hong Kong were both allocated a site in Tseung Kwan O, and Malvern College Hong Kong was given the Science Park site. The schools will open in 2018-19.
The new schools will create 3,490 primary places and 780 secondary places.
The five applicants will allocate 80% or more school places to non-local students.
"The Government supports the development of a vibrant international school sector in Hong Kong, mainly to meet the demand for school places from overseas families living in Hong Kong and families coming to Hong Kong for work or investment," Mr Ng said.
作者: JKLhome 時間: 23-4-20 19:38
回覆 jennyp 的帖子
你去check 下，你講嗰啲唔係全部有IS牌，好多係PIS 不用meet 70% FP
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-20 20:46
JKLhome 發表於 23-4-20 19:38
回覆 jennyp 的帖子
你去check 下，你講嗰啲唔係全部有IS牌，好多係PIS 不用meet 70% FP ...
PIS 要收至少70% local students
作者: jennyp 時間: 23-4-20 23:09
回覆 JKLhome 的帖子
不好意思謝謝提醒，我是直接引用報導，睇內容我都誤會了每間都是國際學校。
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-21 09:21
回覆 poonseelai 的帖子
But to be honest, it is very difficult to define "local" students.... I know a few people, whose kids were born in HK but parents are holding foreign passport...they use their HKID to apply for PIS, while using their foreign passport when applying International School...The way the EDB defines local is not exactly clear to me
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-21 09:32
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-21 09:21
回覆 poonseelai 的帖子
But to be honest, it is very difficult to define "local" students.... I know ...
The definition is clear in the EDB document. Local students are those who have HKID but does not hold any foreign passport. If they hold foreign passports, they are considered “non-locals” by EDB. But in applying schools it is not mandatory to report all nationalities a student has. So they can identify themselves as “locals” when applying for PIS.
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-21 10:02
本帖最後由 simonchan1986 於 23-4-21 10:03 編輯
回覆 mandy_ng207 的帖子
Exactly, there is nothing that prevents them from identifying themselves as local when applying the PIS. This is not quite fair, is it? Basically they can have an edge for both types of non-local school vs. "pure expat" and "pure local"
作者: Daks 時間: 23-4-21 10:22
回覆 simonchan1986 的帖子
EDB doesn't use the terms local/non-local for PIS. On the EDB PIS website:
"PISs are required to ensure that at least 70% of the student population are Hong Kong Permanent Residents."
As long as the children are born in Hong Kong (have the right of abode) or the parents are HK PR, they can be of any nationality.
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-21 10:32
回覆 Daks 的帖子
I am sure the schools (PIS/IS) adhere to the requirements by EDB... am just saying, for those parents holding foreign passports while kids were born here, they have an edge to both PIS (such as VSA and ISF) and IS vs. those with only SAR or foreign passports. I think there is a question of fairness here but the EDB does not seem to address this.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-21 10:50
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-21 10:32
回覆 Daks 的帖子
I am sure the schools (PIS/IS) adhere to the requirements by EDB... am just saying ...
The definition of "local students" for PIS and for IS is different:
IS: local students studying at international schools include students who are Hong Kong permanent residents (with the right of abode in Hong Kong Special Administrative Region) and do not have any foreign passport (except British National (Overseas) Passport)
PIS: 'local children' served by these schools to be permanent residents of Hong Kong"
So, children born in Hong Kong and have foreign passports will be classified as non-local in IS and local in PIS..
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-21 12:00
回覆 poonseelai 的帖子
I am not sure if that is deliberate in order to attract talents from overseas and mainland China to come to HK...but by design it is not fair to locals HK who were born here and do not possess non-SAR passport...
There are a lot of mainland parents having kids born in HK, their kids have priority for both ISF/VSA and GSIS/ESF/HKIS etc.
作者: 964000 時間: 23-4-21 15:30
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-21 12:00
回覆 poonseelai 的帖子
I am not sure if that is deliberate in order to attract talents from oversea ...
本帖最後由 964000 於 23-4-24 07:47 編輯
It’s hard to say it’s fair or unfair. Say in mainland, Hong Kong passport holders can attend international schools there but mainlanders can’t. They can only attend bilingual schools (which is like our PIS).
Also in Singapore, Taiwan and Malaysia, citizens without non-local passports cannot attend their IS too.
I am glad to be in Hong Kong so my kid still have a choice.
For GSIS, having foreign passports (except German Swiss) does not have priority at all. There are only a few mainlander passports holders in the whole primary school. Of course you can’t exclude those mainlanders with foreign passports but that doesn’t grant any priority either. I believe this is the same for HKIS.
I think that HK international schools are really attractive to them in terms of fees and qualities. But they tend to choose Chinese heavy IS rather than the westernised ones.
作者: 964000 時間: 23-4-21 15:33
For local parents who target IS, my advice is maintainence of good English level and a forthcoming attitude is far more advantageous than just having a foreign passport. The schools especially at the lower grades, are actively searching for kids with good oral English to maintain their native English environment. And I have seen kid with foreign passport who failed ESF assessment too.
Second advice is plan ahead, pay school visits and don’t miss deadlines.
作者: Rachel91 時間: 23-4-21 16:49
looks like worth staying at ESF primary for the sake of getting into the middle schools...otherwise there will be very few places available...
作者: squeaky 時間: 23-4-21 18:02
遲啲行星加報個套都唔奇
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-21 20:32
回覆 964000 的帖子
Yes the question of fairness is always tricky. I am just saying inside HK, local HK ppl without SAR passport are at a disadvantage. If HK local want mainland education, they can go to have one. If mainland local want to have HK education, they can go to HK public school too, and in addition to that, they have priority in both types of non-local school which local HK do not.
Correct me if I am wrong, GSIS needs to observe the 70% non-local rule too. So assume two identical kids with just the passport being different, the school will prefer the non-local one to the local one, especially if they are close to the threshold. HKIS also need to observe the 70% non-local rules too but it just happens they are more popular among non-local due to their "weaker" Chinese.
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-21 20:34
回覆 squeaky 的帖子
I think unlikely for now...do you notice most of our officials' kids are from international school?
作者: mandy_ng207 時間: 23-4-21 20:36
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-21 20:32
回覆 964000 的帖子
Yes the question of fairness is always tricky. I am just saying inside HK, local ...
GSIS and HKIS are popular among non-locals and less preferred by locals (in the past, not sure now), because of their relatively weak Chinese. They should have no problem observing 70% non-local rule. Those “new” IS on Kowloon and NT side are more popular among locals (including the HK permanent residents with Canadian/Australian/Mainland passports), I believe it will be hard for locals to get into these schools.
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-21 21:08
回覆 simonchan1986 的帖子
Small correction here - only those born in HK with parents who are Chinese citizens or PR can get PR automatically. Otherwise if you’re born here to non PR/non Chinese citizen parents, then you won’t be a PR and need to live here for 7 years to gain PR.
So some people who are born in HK and hold foreign passports won’t be counted as ‘local’ either
作者: siubear718 時間: 23-4-22 02:04
回覆 bettyc123 的帖子
I think as long as the child has a valid visa (dependent visa) in Hong Kong, he/she is eligible for any public / private schools. So if the child also have a foreign passport, he/she can be qualified as non-local for international school.
作者: siubear718 時間: 23-4-22 02:09
回覆 bettyc123 的帖子
Kids don’t need a PR to be considered a local student. Anyone who has a valid visa can apply to any local schools. Kids who are born in HK are PR by birth regardless of what passports the parents hold (e.g 雙非) and those who are born abroad and doesn’t have a hk passport nor PR can apply to any schools they like as long as their parents live / work in hk.
作者: chima_pigpig 時間: 23-4-22 08:58
To be honest there is no whether or not it is “fair” for non FP holder. 70/30 (some IS has a even higher ratio like FIS TKO) is the existing rule, you want to get into the game, you follow the rule. If you are not eligible for the rule and unable to admit to any of the IS (which I doubt that), then send the child aboard to study (HKSAR turns into FP in other countries), go spend some money to get a FP (some small EU counties require very little investment), get into PIS and wait for opportunity, etc.
Some of my friend cannot admitted to FIS due to the FP issue, but that is something they knew before they applied for it. They want to try and see if they could be the exceptional one, go and try, but there is no such a thing of “not fair” to non FP holder honestly.
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-22 17:13
回覆 siubear718 的帖子
雙飛 only applies to prc people. If you are from mainland China and your kid is born in hk, the kid gets pr. I know many expats who aren’t pr in hk and their kids are born in hk but their kids don’t get pr until they live here for 7 years
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-22 17:15
回覆 siubear718 的帖子
Yes I know with a valid visa they can go to local schools but I meant with the above definition for PIS that it needs to be 70% local and locals are defined as PR. So in this instance, those with a valid dependent visa don’t count as local for the purposes of the PIS 70% local requirement
作者: squeaky 時間: 23-4-23 17:33
本帖最後由 squeaky 於 23-4-26 15:03 編輯
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-21 20:34
回覆 squeaky 的帖子
I think unlikely for now...do you notice most of our officials' kids are from i ...
It could be a policy from top down and it will not be up to these government officials. In the worst case, they can send their kids to study abroad
作者: 964000 時間: 23-4-24 08:28
squeaky 發表於 23-4-21 18:02
遲啲行星加報個套都唔奇
本帖最後由 964000 於 23-4-24 08:35 編輯
Singapore, Taiwan and Malaysia have long been working this way that locals are not allowed to get in IS.International schools for international students that makes sense!
The whole education model is just a business and is about supply and demand. In that case, those existing IS in surplus might just adapt into private schools providing bilingual curriculum for locals. Not a bad thing indeed because local parents have always been asking for “local level-Chinese IS “ so demand is high here and will be met.
For existing parents 過咗海就係神仙。
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-24 09:55
回覆 bettyc123 的帖子
Frankly, I have never heard PIS breaching their 70% local threshold (as the demand for strong Chinese and non-local curriculum is always high), so I guess the problem is more about the "true IS" getting too many local students than the PIS getting too many non-local students.
Now knowing where the problems really lie, all I have been saying is that there are certain group of people who can both apply to PIS (and get to the 70% local group) and "true IS" (also get to the 70% non-local group). I understand some may say HK people is already "lucky" as there is still a chance to pursue IS with the right training to the kids, but cross-border comparison is always tricky as there are so many differences across different places. All I am saying is that within HK, where everyone are under pretty much the same set of conditions, everyone should have a similar set of rules for the kids too.
It is not quite fair for locals who are born here to be eligible for the 70% PIS group while certain group of people can do both the 70% PIS and 70% IS. The odds are staked against locals who want to apply to the "true IS" for their kids.
作者: squeaky 時間: 23-4-26 14:48
964000 發表於 23-4-24 08:28
本帖最後由 964000 於 23-4-24 08:35 編輯
Singapore, Taiwan and Malaysia have long been working th ...
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