教育王國
標題: VSA 定位 [打印本頁]
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-8 13:27 標題: VSA 定位
I’ve been thinking about this for a while but cannot figure it out. What is VSA’s positioning? Like what sort of students does it want to attract?
People who want to attend international school would have all left vic/veo after pn or k1 as that’s when the mass intake is for most of the international schools. So those who want to go down the international school route and still at vic kindergarten after k1 are those who didn’t get offers from international school, so then they would try apply for vsa in k2 (my understanding is that vsa primary school application is in k2 as opposed to k3). Therefore, vsa is attracting students who didn’t get offers (or good enough offers) from international schools. Maybe some will try vsa first and if they don’t get it, then scramble for a spot at an international school after mass intake year.
For those who want to go down local school route (although heard Victoria kindergarten is not enough for elite local primary school) would apply for vsa in k2 but then apply for local schools in k3 and if they don’t get a good local school offer then vsa is their fallback option (assuming they got an offer from vsa). So then once again, vsa is attracting those who didn’t get a good local school offer.
This is why I’m confused as to what vsa’s positioning is??? If I think about it logically, it seems all those who end up at vsa either didn’t get into a good international school or didn’t get into a good local school. Unless maybe some parents are very set on vsa and don’t bother with applying to other international or local schools at all (but so risky coz you can end up with nothing and need to scramble).
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-8 13:55
I think VSA is more for parents who want good Chinese but not the stress in local schools. Many "good" IS does not really offer strong enough Chinese (many are not bilingual to start with), except CIS/CDNIS/ISF, but these are super hard to get in. If the kid cannot go to the 3 above, then VSA will be the most natural choice for those parents looking for strong Chinese for their kids.
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-8 21:02
回覆 simonchan1986 的帖子
I guess that’s right, so they are targeting those students who didn’t get into the popular/better international schools that have a strong focus on Chinese (and don’t mind being peoples second/third choice). I wonder if they were able to make offers earlier for their primary school, whether this would help them ‘fight’ for some of the students that had to leave earlier after pn/k1 for other international schools.
And I do also wonder what international school options are then left if you didn’t get into VSA in k2 (like which ones have mass intake for the equivalent of k3 or primary 1). The one that pops out is ESF as their primary school year 1 is equivalent of k3 so if you fail to secure a spot at vsa in k2, you could try esf (you would concurrently apply for esf primary and vsa over the course of k2). But then if you want vsa, then likely esf won’t be your preferred school since chinese is weak (but perhaps no choice at that point).
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-8 21:04
Most people choose Victoria kindergarten because they can’t decide between LS and IS. But I feel like if you are still in Victoria kindergarten in k2/k3, then you are 兩頭唔到岸 for IS and for LS.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-8 21:24
bettyc123 發表於 23-4-8 21:04 
Most people choose Victoria kindergarten because they can’t decide between LS and IS. But I feel li ...
我當年選vsa原因好簡單, ib and strong chinese
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-8 22:14
回覆 bettyc123 的帖子
To be honest, I don't think VSA is "second-tier". Fact is, there are not many places available for parents who want strong Chinese and IB/non-local curriculum. The demand for strong Chinese and non-local curriculum is so strong that even CDNIS is going to convert all its international stream to bilingual stream.
CIS is almost impossible to get in (unless you pay close to 10mio for its debenture), CDNIS is also very tough with preference to foreign passport holders. Only ISF and VSA are two PIS that have strong Chinese program and accept at least 70% of local parents...It is not like VSA is always a back-up, there are a lot of parents who cannot get a place in VSA for their kids too...
Fact is, if you are not in Vic/VEO, it is almost impossible to get to VSA... and even if you are in Vic/VEO, the chance is not particularly high if you are not in the stepping up classes...
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-8 22:21
And also for ISF, if I am not mistaken the school will spend 70-80% of the time on Chinese in pre-school level, which may not sit well for parents who want a more balanced language environment....So to be honest, VSA is the only school that allows for 70% of kids with HKID and a more balanced language environment...Good luck if your kid can go to CIS/CDNIS, but if not, there are really not many choices.
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-8 22:30
回覆 simonchan1986 的帖子
Don’t get me wrong, I think VSA is a great school and not second tier and I know it’s hard to get in. But just the fact that they don’t make offers until k2 means many might not have a choice but to leave for other international schools before they reach k2. Like if I have an offer for a through train school during mass intake year, I’d have to take that offer as I can’t risk not getting a VSA offer in k2 and then trying to find another international school for my kid at that point (it’s a bit of a gamble).
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-8 22:31
回覆 poonseelai 的帖子
I agree that it’s great! But then what’s your plan b/fallback option if you kid didn’t get into VSA?
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-8 22:54
回覆 bettyc123 的帖子
Yes, that is a problem for those in VEO/Vic looking for VSA. But I guess the demand for strong Chinese is so strong that they do not really worry about "losing" some students, as there are not many places available compared to the demand...
Also, if you look at their history, VSA started as a kindergarten first then opening a primary school. It was not until in 2000/2021 that VSA was established to provide through-train primary+secondary schooling... So I guess their DNA has always been taking students from 6 years old. The fact that they already started taking students from K2 (instead of K3 like local school) meant they do want to push forward the student admission, just that other schools are even earlier...
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-8 23:06
bettyc123 發表於 23-4-8 22:31
回覆 poonseelai 的帖子
I agree that it’s great! But then what’s your plan b/fallback option if yo ...
我孩子已畢業，當年競爭無而家咁大。VEO咁多學生，每人目標不同，不是全部vsa為目標。
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-8 23:08
bettyc123 發表於 23-4-8 21:04
Most people choose Victoria kindergarten because they can’t decide between LS and IS. But I feel li ...
相信你這個假設已經錯咗
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-9 00:40
本帖最後由 bettyc123 於 23-4-9 00:48 編輯
回覆 poonseelai 的帖子
Maybe but that is a reason I keep hearing as to why people choose vic kindergarten. It is in the middle as it isn’t entirely local and not really international either, so kind of keeping options for both paths but then you kind of end up in the middle and neither here nor there.
Of course getting into VSA is a reason why people choose vic kindergarten and also it has a good brand. Why is it so popular then - again is a great school and all in its own right (although being a great kindergarten alone isn’t enough as it needs to get you where you want to be), so interested in seeing why people want to get into vic kindergarten in the first place?
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-9 10:00
bettyc123 發表於 23-4-9 00:40
回覆 poonseelai 的帖子
Maybe but that is a reason I keep hearing as to why people choose vic kinder ...
本帖最後由 poonseelai 於 23-4-9 10:44 編輯
或者你的標題可以改"VEO定位", VEO 同 VSA是不同的。
是"end up in the middle" 定兩手準備要睇你點睇，如果父母已選定 IS or LS ，他們自會有相應安排。並非所有 IS也有自己幼稚園，要選一所有英語環境的幼兒園幼稚園，VEO是其中一個選擇。我當年去VEO 做 reading mum，孩子的水平也不同，所以學校提供了英語環境，也要睇在家父母有否伴讀等。
考到IS的孩子，K2後會離VEO, 所以你睇唔到有幾多，至於K3畢業生去向，你去網頁睇下升小一資料，應該未至於你講兩頭唔到岸咁
作者: 964000 時間: 23-4-9 12:40
bettyc123 發表於 23-4-8 21:02
回覆 simonchan1986 的帖子
I guess that’s right, so they are targeting those students who didn’t g ...
本帖最後由 964000 於 23-5-25 07:17 編輯
My friend’s son was in Vic at K2 but he didn’t get into VSA Primary (as a 細B , his Birthday was Oct ), he then repeated and applied as a 大B and got into GSIS K2.
The other friend has ESF priority anyway(alumni), his daughter just went to Vic K for location and to learn some Chinese.
Another few people I knew went to Vic K but didn’t get offers from any “good IS” or VSA, they end up in private local schools. So it’s quite flexible, don’t have to worry.
作者: Radiomama 時間: 23-4-9 13:17
poonseelai 發表於 23-4-8 21:24
我當年選vsa原因好簡單, ib and strong chinese
我當年沒有選VSA的原因也好簡單，因為距離屋企遠。
HMT Vic的同學仔好多唔會target VSA都係因為距離；較多以九龍直資/私小/名津小為目標，也有好似我咁完成K2後(emoji)讀國際學校Y1, 九龍及新界區的ESF佔唔少，也有ICS 和Yew Chung.
小朋友考小學其實講運氣、家庭背景，不需要太執着，慢慢成長培育佢有學習動機和動力，比入到任何一間名校更重要。
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-9 14:22
Radiomama 發表於 23-4-9 13:17
我當年沒有選VSA的原因也好簡單，因為距離屋企遠。
HMT Vic的同學仔好多唔會target VSA都係因為距離；較 ...
本帖最後由 poonseelai 於 23-4-9 15:50 編輯
同意培養學習動機和動力十分重要, 特別是在AI 年代, 需要懂得運用不同工具,良好語文能力,再加上批判能力
作者: 7jai 時間: 23-4-9 17:10
bettyc123 發表於 23-4-8 13:27
I’ve been thinking about this for a while but cannot figure it out. What is VSA’s positioning? Lik ...
I think its because they expanded their kindergardens so rapidly and sold it to another company, it is completely commercialized and they basically want to make money now. But by doing this, i feel they continue to lose out on very good students who went elsewhere to study because of the lack of safety net they provide to parents on primary school. No parent wants to have so much uncertainty going into P1, therefore everyone who is smart leaves bc they got accepted to better schools with throughtrain. Leaving those who did not get in as leftovers.
Too short sighted i believe VEO and VSA is. I wish they would not focus on only expanding and making more money. People and families see through this and i believe its only a matter of time when the VSA scores get worse and worse, and the entire Victoria brand will lose its reputation.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 23-4-9 17:16
7jai 發表於 23-4-9 17:10
I completely agree with you. I feel that VSA is really shooting themselves in the foot because of th ...
本帖最後由 poonseelai 於 23-4-9 17:30 編輯
如果你想大D機會入VSA, 應該考慮入興發街維幼,因它和VSA屬同一集團,VEO其他幼稚園如果升同一集團的DCS可能機會大D
我估, 純粹估, 或者日後興發街維幼同VSA可以成為through train school
維幼不時被批評commercial, 我只了交學費什費,不知commercial 在那裡
作者: 7jai 時間: 23-4-9 17:18
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-8 22:14
回覆 bettyc123 的帖子
To be honest, I don't think VSA is "second-tier". Fact is, there are not many ...
作者: 7jai 時間: 23-4-11 22:28
Does anyone know how many spots VSA has for P1?
I know that the 9 VEO campuses and CWB Victoria enjoys "priority admission" subject to interview performance..... However I am not sure how many spots everyone will be fighting for?
作者: ddjjbaby 時間: 23-4-12 13:05
7jai 發表於 23-4-11 22:28
Does anyone know how many spots VSA has for P1?
I know that the 9 VEO campuses and CWB Victoria enj ...
I guess around 200
作者: 7jai 時間: 23-4-12 14:06
ddjjbaby posted on 23-4-12 13:05
I guess around 200
So basically 10 campuses have "priority admission". Each campus has around 6-8 classes of 25 kids.
Just rough math thats up to a max of 2,000 VEO & CWB Victoria students fighting for 210 spots.
If i assume a 25% deviation allowance because some will leave, some dont want VSA, or whatever reasons.... That is 1,500 students. Around a ~14% chance.
This also doesn't include how they now open up applications from all different schools as well.
作者: boojiji 時間: 23-4-12 14:13
當然, 用"定位"去思考係一個層面, 但無論定位係點, 其實一間學校入面都係有diverse的人/家庭/組合, 並不是一種stereotype.
沒錯, 有好幾個學沒有vsa offer的, 在k2離校去了esf, 沒有再繼續等waiting, 因為waiting機會真的不大. 也有其他比了好幾萬deposit去其他學校﹐好似cais (earlier in k2出offer) 然後vsa 有offer時, 就放棄其他學校。
也有少量waiting小朋友會留低, 一邊等waiting, 一邊k3考esf/kcis/nais, 呢幾年大家都明..is插班生係多左位...試係有機會的..
再者, 近件要year 2-5插返入vsa 也是一個option~
而且veo 其中一個特點, 就係diverse, 有d係target vsa, 有d係target直資, 有d私立, 有d都係會想入名官津....所以人各有志﹐家長同同學之間相處融洽, 唔會下下都覺得大家係競爭對手﹐好樂意分享同sharing~
但如果你話, 我要cdnis先得! (咁不如你早幾年就去考receiption), isf 也是. 唔使等到k2
作者: Adiezz 時間: 23-4-12 14:54
Bilingual IB 70% local就係VSA定位，有啲家庭就係想要呢種學制和教學環境，而且同類型唔多
相似既ISF和CKY都同樣係好難入讀
作者: Adiezz 時間: 23-4-12 15:03
7jai 發表於 23-4-12 14:06
Thanks for your reply! I found that it was around 210 spots.
So basically 10 campuses have "priority ...
What I know is around 600-800 CWB & VEO students applying VSA every year.
About 60% CWB students obtain offers. VSA prefers to intake more better students from other kindergartens or mainland now, so less VEO students will gain offers.
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-12 17:03
回覆 7jai 的帖子
I think the numbers are much less:
- there are less and less classes as you get to k2 and some campuses are very small so maybe only just 2-3 classes max
- I think a lot of the students in veo kindergartens in kowloon would not be targeting VSA giving location of VSA vs where they live so you can almost just focus on the kindergartens in hk island only
But then I don’t know how many apply from non vic kindergartens
作者: bettyc123 時間: 23-4-12 20:03
本帖最後由 bettyc123 於 23-4-12 20:15 編輯
回覆 boojiji 的帖子
Yes, so I think those who have offers from the likes of hkis, gsis, cis, cdnis and isf would all leave before k2. And maybe even those with offers from other through train schools that might not be as good as VSA will also leave before k2 even if they really want VSA, it’s not worth the gamble - a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. The turnover at the vic kindergartens seems really high as a result of this (and others opting for the ‘better’ local kindergartens).
You are right, sounds like if you can’t get into VSA p1, your options are then the other less popular international schools or keep trying for VSA for latter years.
So those who stay at vic kindergartens in the latter years and apply for vsa are those who didn’t get other offers, haven’t made up their minds yet on where to go or really really fixed on VSA and what it has to offer ie bilingual IB school with a large local population and happy to take their chances (although I think by end of k1, you’d know whether you get offered a spot in the step up class in k2 and if you didn’t, chances of vsa would be slim and can start thinking about plan b).
作者: simonchan1986 時間: 23-4-12 21:08
I think from both a reputation perspective and business perspective, it is great for VEO anyways.
From reputation, VEO can showcase their students getting a lot of offers from the like of CIS/HKIS/GSIS/CDNIS/ISF etc., in fact they published the stat on their website, making VEO a popular choice for parents looking for foundational education to these "good" IS.
And even if a lot of students leave after K1, they offer stepping-up classes to those remaining (and advertised as more likely to VSA) and charging them twice the tuition fee. So to VEO, the revenue per stepping-up student doubles at K2, and the total revenue may be more or less the same even if the number of students drops. It makes perfect business sense to continue this way.
As for VSA, I don't think they need to worry about the number of applicants. Even if a lot left, the demand is still huge relative to supply anyways. For the "quality" of students, honestly it is hard to judge if someone is "good" or not if they can go to certain IS. There are so many factors, such as passport, debenture, their performance at the moment of interview etc. There are still many years away from the point of entry to IS/VSA to their IB/A-level/AP exams more than 10 years later...
I understand that it is a hassle for parents who want to go to VSA but fear that their kid may not get into it at K2, while a lot of the mass intake from IS happens around PN/K1 already. But I think as parents, it is also our responsibilities to plan ahead. If looking for strong Chinese and IB/non-local curriculum (i.e. CIS/CDNIS/VSA/ISF), one should aim for Vic CWB for their kid rather than VEO. If one aims for IS/strong local school anyways, then it probably does not make a big difference between VEO and Vic CWB.
作者: chunting34 時間: 23-4-12 22:07
bettyc123 發表於 23-4-8 13:27
I’ve been thinking about this for a while but cannot figure it out. What is VSA’s positioning? Lik ...
VSA應該就係想吸引忠於佢地的家庭。
感覺佢地揀學生都唔係一定要最叻最乖最醒目，反而好在意家長在學校的參與度、投入度，同有幾認同學校理念。有咁多叻嘅小朋友，走左d去其他IS仲有好多呀，更何況CIS, GSIS, HKIS, ISF, CDNIS全部都咁難入。
至於入VSA的機會，除左CWB vic step-up class機會十分高之外，VEO一般平均都係25%到，當然每年同每間分校都有fluctuation 
作者: chunting34 時間: 23-4-12 22:08
simonchan1986 發表於 23-4-12 21:08
I think from both a reputation perspective and business perspective, it is great for VEO anyways.
Fr ...
I like your analysis from reputation and business perspectives! 
作者: Erminator 時間: 23-5-19 10:15
Let me share some of my observations and experience:
VEO very commercial:
Yes, at least from impression stand point. My kid went to their PN and they got a lot extra optional learning material which you could purchase. Some are good stuff and my kid loves and no one bothers if you dont go for it, but you just got a feeling this is not only a school but also a shop.
IS/LS/VSA target:
those in Kowloon should mostly aim for schools of their choice instead of VSA due to location. I do know many ending up at CIS but live in Kowloon who go to VEO HMT as they just need somewhere that offers a somewhat IS environment but also with decent Chinese learning, but VEO isn’t the main attribution to their CIS admission.
My kid went to HH campus and and after PN, at least a quarter in our class went to ISF. Some went to SKH and other famous local K. Those who stayed for K1 were mostly aiming at CIS/GSIS/HKIS/SIS, so another batch would be gone after K1. Some even quitted immediately after receiving offer, but there were always new kids taking up the space. We don’t hear much among parents that they are aiming VSA as they would rather prefer ISF due to less uncertainty once you are in pre-school.
How you play around your sibling arrangement is also tricky. If your first child went to CWB Vic and you ditched them after PN or K1, your second one might not receive offer and many ended up in VEO.
Bilingual school:
For parents who prefer to have more local peers and the opportunity to learn more Chinese in an IS setup, VSA is a great choice. CDNIS could be similar going forward but it is has passport preference. SIS is ISF is like an advanced version of VSA, where kids could comfortably speak Mandarin after a year in K1 despite English being their playground language.
作者: Adiezz 時間: 23-5-19 13:48 標題: 回覆樓主：
本帖最後由 Adiezz 於 23-5-19 20:21 編輯
本帖最後由 Adiezz 於 23-5-19 13:49 編輯
In my experience, VEO does not sell or recommend products to parents, except a reading pen.
Regarding to CIS reception admission, being in the priority group is necessary to receive an offer, so VEO can’t provide significant assistance. Similar situation also apply to other popular IS such as GSIS, HKIS, CDNIS, and SIS, unless you have a foreign passport.
Parents choose VEO for different reasons. Some thinks VEO provides advantages when applying to K1 at other top local kindergartens. Some parents consider VSA as a backup plan of top local, top IS and ISF. Some do appreciate VSA's bilingual and IB learning environment.
作者: chocosub 時間: 23-5-19 20:11
Adiezz 發表於 23-5-19 13:48
In my experience, VEO does not sell or recommend products to parents, except for a reading pen.
Reg ...
It’s a commercial school but no more so than other chain popular KG groups imo.
作者: boojiji 時間: 23-5-22 18:31
咁多年都冇optional materials / sell 任何野, except for the ting pen which you can use for all years. Worth is very worth the money coz homework books are also "ting-able"
當然會有人係 rather target ISF, 但有一批人係好唔鐘意ISF 個氛圍 (我都係), 所以係唔會考慮ISF (唔可以當入唔到ISF 先留係VEO)
ISF 係龍, 梗係吸引~
有D人又好想學繁體字, 所以唔prefer其他國際學校~
只要知道學校特色係咩野, 然後match下自己想要d咩, 人地點諗唔重要.
另外大集團有大集團既好, 我覺得係有系統同埋不斷improving themselves. 即係好似你返工每年要寫objective setting, 年尾睇下你meet唔meet到咁~
作者: Tanyafish 時間: 23-5-24 14:05
The topic is about VSA but somehow the conversation seen so far appears to be geared towards VEO. I don’t think VSA is “commercial”, there is hardly anything else to pay for apart from school fees to the school. Teachers are caring and my kids love going to school. As for its positioning, I can only comment that for the kindergarten side of things, it is indeed left to be desired; the current situation where students / parents have no “thorough train” from kindy to primary is not satisfactory. Its kindy’s academic training is not as vigorous as those kindergartens which aim for top tier local schools, while its PN and K1 serve as ideal pre-IS education programmes, this means a lot of kids leave after k1 to go those IS with thorough train from reception (aka k2). From what I observe, those kids who get into VSA mostly have parents who are well educated and do care about education for their kids, they are not so-called second tier students. They have prepared for interviews with local schools in k2 but also shoot for VSA, if VSA takes them, they stay with VSA. Presumably this has to do with its relatively truly bilingual program, and decent IB scores (albeit admittedly not the most top), with a academic program that encourages creativity, self-agency and lots of reading. Generally (to the extent I am aware) it seems that parents of VSA students do know what they are in for, and are not treating VSA as a “school of last resort”. P.s. there has been significant demand for VSA places, so much so that they added one more p1 class last year or the year before (and managed to fill them all).
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