教育王國
標題: Attention!! All Canadian citizens with kids born outside of Canada!!!!! [打印本頁]
作者: jolalee 時間: 16-9-1 20:29 標題: Attention!! All Canadian citizens with kids born outside of Canada!!!!!
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 16-9-3 04:21 編輯
Citizenship for All Canadian Children!
If you are a Canadian passport holder, please read on:
There is an initiative to repeal an amendment to Canada’s citizenship law (put in by the former PM) which prevents Canadian citizens from passing down full citizenship rights to children born abroad.
But, as Justin Trudeau said, "A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian," and I believe citizenship shouldn't have caveats.
There is parliamentary petition set up so this can be tabled in the House of Commons. All Canadian citizens can sign, regardless of where they live.
Please have a look at the petition here: https://petitions.parl.gc.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-517
The petition is open until Dec 21st and then it can be tabled in the House of Commons. The petition is initiated by Jenny Kwan, MP for Vancouver East, and NPD critic for immigration.
Please sign the petition yourself, and/or share this initiative to all your Canadian friends!!
作者: jolalee 時間: 16-9-1 20:39
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 16-9-1 20:48 編輯
加拿大近年加了新例，加國公民在加拿大以外出生的孩子不能擁有完整的公民權利。他們若配偶不是加國公民，那麼他們的子女也不能成為加國公民。懇請所有在港的加拿大公民，用兩分鐘時間click入以上網站加入自己名字，為著你的子女，讓加拿大政府知道我們對此政策如何不滿。謝謝！
作者: hkparent 時間: 16-9-2 09:34 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+jolalee+於+16-9-1+20:48+編輯
原帖由 jolalee 於 16-09-01 發表
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 16-9-1 20:48 編輯
加拿大近年加了新例，加國公民在加拿大以外出生的孩子不能擁 ...
It may have a great impact on some parents in Hk who have returned from Canada to work in Hk, married to a non-Canadian citizen, then gave birth to children in Hk. How about he/she applies for citizenship for his/her spouse first so that their children can become citizens?
作者: Cara2006 時間: 16-9-2 13:18
"The Canadian government has effectively revoked the citizenship of thousands of Canadian children born abroad since the "after first generation" exclusion to the right to citizenship came into force in 2009."
Oh wow. Did not know that? I would not be surprised if Canadian children born in Hong Kong have already been affected. I know a lot of Hong Kong born canadian children never even went through the process to obtain the Canadian passport. Most people think the SAR passport is good and parents love the convenience of 回鄉卡.
作者: Cara2006 時間: 16-9-2 13:20
hkparent 發表於 16-9-2 09:34 
How about he/she applies for citizenship for his/her spouse first so that their children can become citizens?
Of course that solve all problems.
But in that case, spouse need to land and live in Canada first to become citizen. Would not work for families that are now stationed in Hong Kong. Plus children that are already born.
作者: victoryu19 時間: 16-9-2 14:12
Does it affect the kids who have already obtained citizenship and passport already?
作者: huba 時間: 16-9-2 16:01 標題: 引用：Does+it+affect+the+kids+who+have+already
本帖最後由 huba 於 16-9-2 16:09 編輯
原帖由 victoryu19 於 16-09-02 發表
Does it affect the kids who have already obtained citizenship and passport already?
No, it won't affect their citizenship. However for those Canadian children born in HK (or simply outside Canada), their future children born outside Canada can no longer inherit Canadian citizenship by default.
作者: behd 時間: 16-9-2 16:12 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+huba+於+16-9-2+16:09+編輯+\
原帖由 huba 於 16-09-02 發表
本帖最後由 huba 於 16-9-2 16:09 編輯
作者: huba 時間: 16-9-2 17:10 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+huba+於+16-09-02+發表本帖最
本帖最後由 huba 於 16-9-2 17:44 編輯
原帖由 behd 於 16-09-02 發表
好似以前都係咁，隔代唔會比入籍，尤其是born outside canada
以前無分在加拿大國內出生或海外出生都係世襲，新例影響了在2009年4月17日或以後在海外出生的加拿大人後代。
可以參考以下網頁：
Guide CIT 0003 - Application for Canadian Citizenship - Minors (under 18 years of age) http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/CIT0003ETOC.asp
Related extract:
Is your child already a citizen?
In general, a child born to a Canadian parent outside Canada before April 17, 2009, is a Canadian citizen. However, a child born to a Canadian parent outside Canada on or after April 17, 2009, is a Canadian citizen at birth only if that child is born in the first generation outside Canada ...
作者: Chole 時間: 16-9-2 21:24 標題: 回覆：Attention!! All Canadian citizens with kids born outside of Canada!!!!!
I think Aussie is the same. Don't find it an issue to me. By then my kids should make their own choice where to give birth to their babies.
作者: jolalee 時間: 16-9-3 03:35
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 16-9-3 03:56 編輯
Chole 發表於 16-9-2 21:24
I think Aussie is the same. Don't find it an issue to me. By then my kids should make their own ch ...
My son both an Aussie & a Cdn. Like most countries, Australia has a residency requirement, that citizenship by descent has to live in Australia for 2 years (for UK it is 5 years, which I think is fairer) in order for their kids to claim Australian citizenship. I think that is fair as citizens should have ties to their home country, but MARRYING someone in order to claim that citizenship? No one has the right to restrict love that way, or to have to choose between loving someone who's not a Canadian citizen and hence has to give up their rights for that. (Assuming we're not distinguishing between love and marriage LOL)
For this new law in Canada, there is no clause for residency, as the UK, US, and Australia have. If my children move back to Canada tomorrow and live there for the next 30 years, they will still have a caveat on their citizenship. That really is a putative system, and it's a far cry from the sensible residency requirements that other countries have.
Personally our son is covered. Since my husband's entire family remains in Australia, we will most probably return there eventually. What we're trying to protest is not simply for personal gain, but for a law that is morally flawed. True too, that it does affect thousands upon thousands of overseas Canadian, some of whose parents probably fought hard and sacrificed so much for their kids to become Canadian citizens in the first place, and it is not right for the government to reap the benefits then (with so much money invested into our country) and discard their priveleges now.
Please pass the link to your friends if they are Canadian citizens.
Please sign the petition above
If you are a Canadian citizen (there are 295,000 of us here in Hong Kong)
作者: jolalee 時間: 16-9-3 03:47
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 16-9-4 01:56 編輯
回覆 Cara2006 的帖子
Cara, parents who only applied for SAR passport but not Cdn passport for their child may not be forward thinking enough. The priveleges SAR has MAY expire after 2046 (I haven't done any research on this so anyone in the know please feel free to fill me in). Hong Kong may fully merge with China, and China unlike HK, does not allow for dual citizenship. What happens then? It may be too late if they do not act now.
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 16-9-3 03:59
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 16-9-3 04:00 編輯
jolalee 發表於 16-9-3 03:47
Cara, parents who only applied for SAR passport but not Cdn passport for their
child may not be forward thinking enough...
The HKSAR passport is really nothing more than a travel document. As many incidents have proved that HKSAR passport is next to useless when Hongkongers found themselves in trouble overseas and needed consular help.
Come to think of it, China's Embassies aren't even inclined to help their own people, why should they help you 
作者: jolalee 時間: 16-9-3 04:08
FattyDaddy 發表於 16-9-3 03:59
The HKSAR passport is really nothing more than a travel document. As many incidents have proved tha ...
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 16-9-3 04:22
jolalee 發表於 16-9-3 04:08
Yes Fattydaddy, you reminded us to distinguish between passport (simply a travel document) vs citizenship ...
作者: Artie 時間: 16-9-6 11:31
I was aware of this law (not the details though), but never had much attention since my kids were born in Canada. Thanks for letting us know of the petition though.
For our generation, many of our parents gave up much (money, time, etc) to emigrate to Canada for us. So we have the passport, the education, etc. Yet, so many of our generation (like Cara said), they do not really care about the status or rights of their children born in Hong Kong, never even care to apply for Canadian citizenship and passport. Like Cara said, I have families and friends that have children born in Hong Kong and they have not applied to obtain citizenship for them.
Note however that 回鄉卡 is another huge issue for these children. For all ethnic chinese born in Hong Kong, they are all "given" the status of being a Hong Kong citizen. So even if they have obtained a Canadian passport, they cannot use their Canadian passport to travel to China, as long as you are still living in Hong Kong. If you go and apply for a visa, they would simply ask you go to apply for 回鄉卡. This is also one reason why many of these children possess a 回鄉卡.
作者: Activehealth 時間: 16-9-6 11:47
Artie 發表於 16-9-6 11:31
I was aware of this law (not the details though), but never had much attention since my kids were bo ...
本帖最後由 Activehealth 於 16-11-22 22:32 編輯
Deleted
作者: Artie 時間: 16-9-6 12:00
本帖最後由 Artie 於 16-9-6 12:38 編輯
Activehealth 發表於 16-9-6 11:47
I was born in HK well before 97 and my boy was born in HK after 2000. We both have Australian passpo ...
I have a friend with kid born in Hong Kong. She tried to apply for a visa on a foreign passport just last year (never applied and never been to china before that). And she was told her daughter has to get a 回鄉卡 instead.
Another friend had no problem with getting a visa her child. Probably because the child has applied a few times in the past.
We suspected that there have been changes just in the past couple of year.
PS. Just wanted to share my friends cases. May be it is just one or two. But I would not be surprised if China will continue to reject visa applications from Hong Kong born chinese.
作者: Radiomama 時間: 16-9-6 13:13 標題: 回覆：Artie 的帖子
I have experienced it two years ago. I could only apply visa for my boy if I made this application in Canada. Otherwise, I could only apply 回鄕証.
作者: daisy17772 時間: 16-9-6 13:25 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+Artie+於+16-9-6+12:38+編輯+\
原帖由 Artie 於 16-09-06 發表
本帖最後由 Artie 於 16-9-6 12:38 編輯
作者: daisy17772 時間: 16-9-6 13:27 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+Artie+於+16-09-06+發表I+was
原帖由 Activehealth 於 16-09-06 發表
I was born in HK well before 97 and my boy was born in HK after 2000. We both have Australian passpo ...
作者: jolalee 時間: 16-9-6 21:31
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 16-9-6 21:39 編輯
Artie 發表於 16-9-6 12:00
I have a friend with kid born in Hong Kong. She tried to apply for a visa on a foreign passport ...
Thank you for your information Artie!
My son has Australian, Canadian & Hong Kong SAR passports, but not 回鄉卡 as he has never set foot in China, yet. So basically, for ethnic Chinese born in HK, they now must apply for 回鄉卡 in order to enter China? Are they allowed to enter with HK SAR passport? (I guess not?) In this case, since he already has a HK SAR. passport, would he still be considered a Chinese citizen, or only if he applied for a 回鄉卡？Since China does not allow for dual citizenship, I suppose China would consider those with 回鄉卡 as Chinese Citizens and ignore their foreign passports, but what about those with just HK SAR passports without 回鄉卡？TIA for my many queries!
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 16-9-6 23:43
jolalee 發表於 16-9-6 21:31
So basically, for ethnic Chinese born in HK, they now must apply for 回鄉卡 in order to enter China? ...
In future if he wishes to travel to China from HK, he must obtain a "Return to Village" card. If by that time he has settled in Canada or Australia, he will not be able to obtain a China visa for his Canadian or Australian passport, the China Embassy will reject his application and he must obtain a variation of China's "Return to Village" card, which means he will be entering China as a China national and will not be entitled to any form of foreign consular assistance.
http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/06/30/China-Refusing-to-Recognize-Canadian-Citizenship-of-Travellers/
My view is, if you don't like China's rules, just don't go there. The world is a big place (196 million square miles), and China (3.7 million square miles) is less than 2% of the world :)
作者: jolalee 時間: 16-9-7 07:45
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 16-9-7 07:46 編輯
Thanks for the link Fatty Daddy!
"It goes against international law; it's part and parcel of China's refusal to acknowledge the authority of international regimes in general.... the policy could be considered discrimination because Beijing is issuing visas based solely on people's ethnicity."
Another example of China overlooking International practice for their own advantages.... See if any African country can pull THAT off for black Americans!!
I agree with you that we'd rather not let our son go to China if this country bends international laws like that! However, I think for your calculation you are including non-inhabitable areas such as the 7 seas and snowy tundras... Well, I guess our son can visit those places too
作者: hkparent 時間: 16-9-7 09:03 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+jolalee+於+16-9-7+07:46+編輯
原帖由 jolalee 於 16-09-07 發表
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 16-9-7 07:46 編輯
Thanks for the link Fatty Daddy!
作者: jolalee 時間: 16-9-8 23:39
回覆 hkparent 的帖子
Yes, that's why I'm keen on trying to apply for China Visa from Australia this coming Christmas when we return there for our annual visit. Hopefully my son will get visa entry via his Aussie passport... We really don't know what will happen in the future (where the kids will work, if China will change their policy even for ethnic honest who had been traveling with Foreign passport etc), but we just have to do what we can see and do today, for tomorrow.
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 16-9-9 17:39
jolalee 發表於 16-9-7 07:45
See if any African country can pull THAT off for black Americans!! ...
作者: nintendo 時間: 16-9-9 18:32
Return to Jungle.... sounds like not as bad as our situation.
作者: Artie 時間: 16-9-10 15:26
jolalee 發表於 16-9-8 23:39
回覆 hkparent 的帖子
Yes, that's why I'm keen on trying to apply for China Visa from Australia this ...
Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
作者: bbdmami 時間: 16-9-11 21:05 標題: 回覆：Attention!! All Canadian citizens with kids born outside of Canada!!!!!
Only multiple entry visa is rejected. I never heard any problem with single entry visa.
Multiple entry visa has always been difficult even for business travellers.
作者: kammis 時間: 16-9-12 07:05 標題: 回覆：Attention!! All Canadian citizens with kids born outside of Canada!!!!!
Even u can Help ur kid to get a visa to China today, doesn't mean u can to the same next week. China's regulation changes whenever they like and they don't need to inform u in advance. They can reject ur application without giving a reason.
The hidden meaning to force HK born foreign kids to apply 回鄉卡 instead of a visa is... Using 回鄉卡 to enter China, which means u admit u are a Chinese citizen. If u break any law (or they just don't like u) or under investigation, don't expect the Canadian embassy can help u coz u are a "Chinese citizen" committing a crime in China!
作者: random_dad 時間: 16-9-15 12:36
本帖最後由 random_dad 於 16-9-15 12:43 編輯
Let me attempt to clarify, as I have spent some time looking at the rules for myself, being a foreign born Chinese.
The issue at the heart of the issue, and is the basis of the determination of whether you are considered a Chinese National in the eyes of China, is if the child was born outside of Hong kong, then whether at time of birth, the parent of that child is a resident of Hong Kong (or China), or whether the parents have emigrated. So if a child was born at a time when the parents normally resided in a foreign country and holds that citizenship, then the child would not be considered Chinese. Conversely, if the child was born while the parents were "vacationing" in another country, then that child would be considered Chinese. These are the same rules that HKSAR Immigration uses to determine whether you will qualify for a HKSAR passport or not. There are also considerations for those born before 1997 handover, where those children would be entitled to dual citizenship and Chinese nationality as a result of their birth while HK was under British rule.
A quick summary:
Child born in HK + Parents are Chinese = Chinese child
Child born elsewhere + Parents have migrated elsewhere = not Chinese child
Child born elsewhere + Parents normally live in HK at the time of birth = Chinese child
Child born before 1997 whether in HK or overseas + Parents are Chinese and have PR status in HK = Chinese child
From the above:
If your child is Chinese -> you qualify for 回鄉卡 -> no need for visa -> go get 回鄉卡
If your child is not Chinese -> you don't qualify for 回鄉卡 -> no problems with getting visa
Here's what it boils down to... They will not issues visas to people that are their own nationals. This is logical, and true of any other nation. If you wish to obtain a visa, then what the visa office in Hong Kong will ask you to do is to confirm that you are not a Chinese national by going to HKSAR Immigration and declaring that you are giving up your rights as a PR in HK. In other words, you can't be both a Chinese national and a Chinese non-national at the same time. This policy hasn't changed in recent years.
Furthermore, from my understanding, if you have gained citizenship by birth from countries other than China, then those countries will also not extend you the consular courtesies that China might be able to offer (I know, not likely anyways). But the point I'm trying to make is that China is applying the rules the same way that any other country would apply in determination of whether you qualify for consular protection based on citizenship obtained by birth. In other words, if you were born in Canada and have obtained Australian citizenship by naturalization, Australia will not be able to offer you consular protection while in Canada. With this in mind, the part I am uncertain is whether if you relinquish your rights as a HK PR, whether you would then qualify for consular protection, because that relinquishes the right in HK, but China might still sees that person as a Chinese national.
Where the crux of the issue, of course, is that China does not recognize dual citizenship, while many other nations do, and a special exemption was made to HKSAR by China. This exemption adds a complicating factor.
I suspect the case from Canada that made news was of someone applying for a China visa that probably is a Chinese national because their birth was before the handover. From looking at the info from that incident, it doesn't appear to me that the policies have changed. I think they were issued their visas subsequently.
I have personally been denied a visa application made via the visa office in Hong Kong, but have been able to obtain a visa in my foreign passport from that foreign country. I have also been able to obtain a 回鄉卡 subsequent to that (and not too long ago), after proving to HKSAR Immigration that I was a Chinese national by providing my parent's travel documents from around the time I was born showing their exit and entry records as being consistent of someone residing at Hong Kong at the time, and obtaining a HKSAR passport.
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 16-9-15 23:49
random_dad 發表於 16-9-15 12:36
the visa office in Hong Kong will ask you to do is to confirm that you are not a Chinese national by going to HKSAR Immigration and declaring that you are giving up your rights as a PR in HK ...
A HK PR is not the same as a Chinese National, there are many foreigners who are HK PR but are not Chinese Nationals.
If you have automatically acquired Chinese nationality on 1/July/1997 (as would be the case for every HK PR who are "of Chinese blood") and you wish to renounce that nationality, you could do so without giving up any right of being a HK PR, in other words you will still have the triple star HKID card and have the right of abode in HK and the right to vote etc.
作者: tibbar2011 時間: 16-9-16 22:22
回覆 FattyDaddy 的帖子
So you mean one can renounce Chinese nationality without giving up HK PR? I noted your point that many foreigners are HK PRs but not Chinese nationals, but I would consider them as a different "specie" as they are never entitled to Chinese nationality. For us HK born ethic Chinese, if we renounce Chinese nationality, I am curious what the ramification is. Obviously, living in HK, it's important to maintain HK PR... thanks
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 16-9-17 05:57
tibbar2011 發表於 16-9-16 22:22
For us HK born ethic Chinese, if we renounce Chinese nationality, I am curious what the ramification is ...
http://www.immd.gov.hk/eng/services/chinese_nationality/Application_for_Renunciation_of_Chinese_Nationality.html
An excerpt from the webpage ...
The applicant will continue to enjoy his/her right of abode in Hong Kong after his/her application for renunciation of Chinese nationality has been approved, provided that:
(a) the applicant had the right of abode in Hong Kong before 1 July 1997, AND
- he/she was settled in Hong Kong immediately before 1 July 1997; or
- after he/she ceased to be settled in Hong Kong immediately before 1 July 1997, he/she returned to settle in Hong Kong within 18 months commencing on 1 July 1997; or
- after he/she ceased to be settled in Hong Kong immediately before 1 July 1997, he/she returned to settle in Hong Kong after the period of 18 months commencing on 1 July 1997 but only if he/she had been absent from Hong Kong for a continuous period of less than 36 months.
I believe most ethnic Chinese Hongkonger would satisfy conditions (a) and 1 above so the Right of Abode in HK is protected, the consequence is you won't be entitled to an HKSAR passport (actually a China passport because that's the country issuing it) and a "Return to Village" card.
Incidentally the webpage also mentions this ...
"If the applicant loses his/her right of abode in Hong Kong, he/she will automatically acquire the right to land, which will enable him/her to enter the HKSAR freely and to work, study or live without any restriction on the condition of stay in Hong Kong. The applicant will also be able to re-acquire the right of abode if he/she subsequently satisfies the requirements applicable to a non-Chinese citizen"
So, not such a big deal even if you lose the Right of Abode.
作者: oooray 時間: 16-9-19 11:02
回覆 random_dad 的帖子
我的理解是；如你所說；因中國不承認雙重國籍；只要你是香港出生；在香港居住；或海外出生97後回港入境時是聲明了永久居民身份；你便是香港人(不管你拿多少本外國護照)；享有香港永久居民福利：同時在香港或內地也失去所屬國藉國家之領事保護權。
作者: random_dad 時間: 16-9-20 12:29
本帖最後由 random_dad 於 16-9-20 12:30 編輯
I should have been more clear and not interchangeably use HK PR and Chinese Nationality for what I wrote.
But the assumption that most ethnic Chinese Hongkonger would satisfy 1 and (a) is a bit of a reach in my opinion. Part (a.1) says that the person needed to be settled immediately before 1 July 1997, which would mean that if you had immigrated at that moment in time, and unless you have returned shortly thereafter and satisfied either part (a.2) or (a.3) as well, you will indeed loose your Right of Abode (aka HK PR) when you renounce your Chinese nationality.
Summary:
If you are a Chinese national + If you were living in HK on 1 July 1997 = Keep Right of Abode
If you are a Chinese national + If you were living elsewhere on 1 July 1997 + returned before 31 Dec 1998 = Keep Right of Abode
If you are a Chinese national + If you were living elsewhere on 1 July 1997 + returned before 30 Jun 2000 = Keep Right of Abode
All other Chinese nationals = Lose your right of abode and retain your right to land but can reacquire your right of abode after 7 years.
Basically, if you had emigrated from Hong Kong at the time of handover, unless you had returned shortly after and satisfied the above conditions, you would lose your right of abode. I would argue the privilege to retain the right of abode for would not apply for most ethnic Chinese Hong Kongers that were not in Hong Kong at time of handover.
You are correct in the consequences in that for most that choose to renounce their Chinese nationality, they would be giving up the right to a HKSAR passport and a 回鄉卡, and would therefore need a visa to enter China. They can live and work in Hong Kong with the right to land, but the other right they would lose is the right to vote. Whether this last part is a big deal or not would depending on the person.
The longer consequence is actually similar to what started this thread; the next generation would not be a Chinese national and therefore would not be entitled to a right of abode or a right to land, I guess in a way similar to what Canadians and Australians have done with their law, although not in an exact manner.
作者: random_dad 時間: 16-9-20 12:32
tibbar2011 發表於 16-9-16 22:22
回覆 FattyDaddy 的帖子
So you mean one can renounce Chinese nationality without giving up HK PR? I ...
作者: random_dad 時間: 16-9-20 12:42
本帖最後由 random_dad 於 16-9-20 12:43 編輯
oooray 發表於 16-9-19 11:02
回覆 random_dad 的帖子
我的理解是；如你所說；因中國不承認雙重國籍；只要你是香港出生；在香港居住；或 ...
What I've stated above is correct, with FattyDaddy providing the links to HK Immi for the official explanation.
What we are discussing is what happens if someone chooses to renounce their Chinese Nationality. So long as you don't, then the Right of Abode (HK PR) status is retained regardless of dual or multiple citizenship.
I'm not sure which of the points raised you are addressing or responding to, so if you can clarify, it would help me understand if I've made a mistake or am not clear in my explanation.
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 16-9-20 13:42
random_dad 發表於 16-9-20 12:29
But the assumption that most ethnic Chinese Hongkonger would satisfy 1 and (a) is a bit of a reach in my opinion. ...
The majority of ethnic Chinese Hongkongers have never emigrated elsewhere, and for the minority who did, many of them regarded foreign nationality as an insurance only and never intended to settle in the country they emigrated to, hence the popular phrase "移民監" was coined. To them, being away from HK was like a jail term and some even bragged about how they cheated the system and obtained citizenship without doing the time. Thus getting out of "jail" would be a general desire and given the peak of emigration occurred in the early 1990's, most of them would have returned to HK by 1997 or shortly afterwards.
Anyway, this is only a minor point.
作者: oooray 時間: 16-9-20 13:57 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+random_dad+於+16-9-20+12:43+
原帖由 random_dad 於 16-09-20 發表
本帖最後由 random_dad 於 16-9-20 12:43 編輯
作者: random_dad 時間: 16-9-22 09:46
本帖最後由 random_dad 於 16-9-22 09:49 編輯
FattyDaddy 發表於 16-9-20 13:42
No I would not say it is a bit of a reach if we put things into context.
The majority of ethnic Chin ...
Respectfully, I would suggest that your application of context isn't correct.
Ethnic Chinese Hongkongers that have never emigrated elsewhere would not be part of this context of the renunciation of their Chinese nationality, because they will not be able to, as one cannot renounce their nationality without having already obtained another. You cannot become stateless voluntarily. The context of which the renunciation applies is only for, as you put it, the minority who have obtained foreign nationality.
Within this subset of people of which the rule can only apply to, from my personal experience, I would still like to suggest that your observation isn't entirely correct. I will suggest that there are two categories of people within this subset; the "parents" and the "children".
While a significant portion of "parents" may have returned to Hong Kong, I don't think it's the majority. For example, the statistics in the early 2000's suggested that there were more than 400,000 Chinese in the Greater Toronto Area (the largest Chinese population outside of China/Hong Kong), with the overwhelming majority from Hong Kong, as immigration from Mainland China was few and far in between. Further, there was steady emigration from after 1989 right up to the handover, as the events of 1989 triggered a wave of application, and time for applications + time needed to stay in a foreign country for the majority would have been 5 years or greater (2 years application + 3 years stay for Canada or 5 years for Australia or 7 years for USA), and as such returning before 1997 would have been difficult for many. Of these folks, only those that entered Hong Kong just before July 1 1997 or the 18 months following would have qualified for retaining their Right of Abode if they were to renounce their Chinese nationality. Those returning after that would have needed to not have entered Hong Kong at all for more than 36 months continuously.
For the "children", as anecdotal evidence, I have noticed the migration back to Hong Kong began just after 2000 and continued throughout the decade, having graduated from University and having perceived their economic opportunities were better in Hong Kong as a result of their language and cultural deficiency. These same "children" that have returned are now looking at returning overseas or having recently done so, as they now have their own children and are looking at the education system here as dysfunctional as compared to what they have attended overseas, and therefore desiring an international school now, with the consideration of sending their children overseas soon or in the near future. I can tell you from personal experience that a great majority of those I know that have primary school aged children today and hold a foreign nationality has already returned to the foreign country within the last year or two, or is on their radar to go well before upper secondary school begins. The events in Hong Kong in the last two years seems to have been a contributing factor as well, whether as an excuse or not for their decision to leave.
For what it's worth. It's my 2 cents. You may disagree. :)
作者: random_dad 時間: 16-9-22 10:00
本帖最後由 random_dad 於 16-9-22 10:00 編輯
oooray 發表於 16-9-20 13:57
sorry for quoting your speech. Your explanation is clear. I am just curious to hear the discussion ( ...
Ah, got it.
There's actually another dimension to the 回鄉卡 that I don't know whether it comes into play or not. The way China sees it, the dual nationality issue is something grandfathered to those that had dual nationality prior to 1997, or perhaps obtained by birth. Remember that China's view is that they only allow a single nationality, and that if you had settled abroad and have obtained a foreign nationality, you would automatically lose your Chinese nationality (as would, for example, Australians obtaining a second nationality during the period in which Australia did not allow dual nationality). So, an ethnic Chinese national born in Hong Kong emigrates to a foreign country after 1997 and obtains that nationality. If they apply for a 回鄉卡 only after they obtain that foreign nationality, I don't whether China would issue it, even if that person qualifies for a HKSAR passport by virtue of their birth. The extension of that is whether from a legal perspective, they can revoke the 回鄉卡 for those Hongkongers who have obtained a foreign nationality subsequent to 1997, even though I don't believe that is being enforced at all.
http://www.immd.gov.hk/eng/residents/immigration/chinese/law.html (See Article 9)
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 16-9-22 11:25
random_dad 發表於 16-9-22 09:46
While a significant portion of "parents" may have returned to Hong Kong, I don't think it's the majority ...
I agree with you that for the "children" group who some of them are now parents, many of those who had returned to HK have now "re-returned" to the country where they emigrated to with their parents (or were simply born there). In fact, even the parents who once dreaded "jail time" abroad are thinking of leaving as well because today's HK is no longer the HK they once knew and loved so "jail" has now become more attractive.
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