教育王國
標題: IB Chinese A SL vs NSS Chinese [打印本頁]
作者: kids-kingdom 時間: 15-1-22 12:46 標題: IB Chinese A SL vs NSS Chinese
Background
My son is studying in F3 (NSS curriculum) at St Stephen College and will need to decide within the next 2 months whether he will be taking the NSS or IB route next year.
Our major concern is his Chinese ability. English has been his major medium of learning and he is relatively handicapped in Chinese (bottom 25% among all F3 students). Unfortunately the school will not be providing Chinese B courses, so the only choices of an IB student will be Chinese A SL or HL.
Questions:
Can anyone share their experience with regard to the difficulty in studying Chinese A SL vs NSS Chinese? We have obtained some IB past papers but have no clue (no marking scheme) regarding how to answer those papers and how will it be graded.
Do you think a student with the said background can handle Chinese A SL and what grade should be expected?
I know this is not an easy question? Please share whatever view you have.
作者: annie40 時間: 15-1-22 12:56
Do you think a student with the said background can handle Chinese A SL and what grade should be expected?
It is not easy to classify who can handle Chinese A SL easily. I would suggest you to study the pass paper on your own, and then evaluate the possibility. Apart from student's current level, it is important to have a Chinese teacher to guide him/her on studying classic literature. In case you have very good responsible Chinese teacher at school, it would help a lot.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 15-1-22 16:14 標題: 回覆：IB Chinese A SL vs NSS Chinese
Does the school offer IB chi language and literature or only literature? If a student really loves reading books, literature will be more suitable. Lang and lit covers different text type and some students find this more interesting. As annie40 mentioned, teachers' guidance is very important. Does your child target universities in HK? If a student cannot get a three in chi in DSE, basically it will be a No for universities in HK. Any suggestions from teachers?
作者: 武航 時間: 15-1-22 16:22
本帖最後由 武航 於 15-1-22 16:42 編輯
I copy you the Mark scheme of IB Chinese for you below and I'm afraid you will find that Markscheme won't help in your case.
散文
1.
滿意－較好的答案应：找出作品的主题；分析讨论作品中对人、事、物的描述或感想如何围绕这一主题组成一个整体。
很好－优秀的答案应：对以上的讨论更深入详尽。
2.
滿意－較好的答案应：通过对例子的细读，找出“我”在作品中出现的具体情况；分析“我”介入内容或情感的表达的深浅程度。
很好－优秀的答案应：对上述问题的分析更深入详尽；应能讨论作者对“我”的具体 处理合理与否，有效与否，如何影响了作品的感染力。
3.
滿意－較好的答案应：找出作品中带有“含蓄”与“直白”这两种不同倾向的具体例子；分析讨论这两种不同倾向如何影响作品意义的传达。
很好－优秀的答案应：更深入详尽地作上述分析；例证更具体准确。
I suggest you should discuss with the Chinese teacher and ask him to evaluate your son's standard.
作者: kids-kingdom 時間: 15-1-22 18:27
poonseelai 發表於 15-1-22 16:14 
Does the school offer IB chi language and literature or only literature? If a student really loves r ...
I have no preference for universities and will apply for UK/US and local universities.
We are more inclined to IB as I understand some UK universities offer conditions that included the DSE Chinese.
Thanks for the other members who have responded. There will be a teacher meeting next week and I will try to discuss with the teacher. I have raised the question regarding the DSE Chinese versus IB Chinese A SL during the school IB briefing a few months back but the teacher refused to give a direct comparison.
Can anyone comment on this (DSE Chinese vs IB Chinese A SL) ?
作者: joyjoyparent 時間: 15-1-22 18:50
DSE Chinese is effectively a subject on Chinese language AND culture, and the coverage last for three years; IB course is a two year course only. If you don't mind to apply for UK universities, you might even take Spanish ab initio course at school instead of Chinese A.
作者: himmamme 時間: 15-1-23 00:53
kids-kingdom 發表於 15-1-22 18:27
Can anyone comment on this (DSE Chinese vs IB Chinese A SL) ?
作者: kids-kingdom 時間: 15-1-23 06:52
joyjoyparent 發表於 15-1-22 18:50
DSE Chinese is effectively a subject on Chinese language AND culture, and the coverage last for thre ...
Also, from the past paper that I have seen, the Chinese A Examination only have few questions. All questions ask the student to comment on a given passage. It is very much different from DSE or convention Chinese Exam in NSS.
作者: Lamtau 時間: 15-1-23 10:33
回覆 kids-kingdom 的帖子
Even if the school offers Chinese B, you have to be careful in picking that option. I assume your kid has Chinese as the mother tongue. IBO's philosophy is that the student should take 'A' for the mother-tongue language. (Given that most of the students in SSC are local Chinese, itmay be the reason why the school is not offering Chinese B.) Also, a student with a Chinese mother-tongue studying Chinese B will be viewed unfavorably by the college admission officers.
作者: Lamtau 時間: 15-1-23 10:38
回覆 kids-kingdom 的帖子
One more point that you should consider in choosing between DSE and IB. It depends on how much he/she wants to study in HK universities and how confident he is in getting a '3' in DSE Chinese. He may still be able to apply to HK's universities if he gets a '4' in IB Chinese A, which is not so difficult given that only less than 1% of candidates got a 3 or below in IB Chinese A. However, he will not be qualified to apply under JUPAS if he does not get at least '3' in DSE Chinese
作者: poonseelai 時間: 15-1-23 11:02 標題: 回覆：IB Chinese A SL vs NSS Chinese
Is it a bit risky to assume that getting a 4 in chi A is not too difficult as only 1% gets a 3 or below, bearing in mind that students taking chi A are already quite strong at Chi.
作者: kids-kingdom 時間: 15-1-23 11:19
Lamtau 發表於 15-1-23 10:38
回覆 kids-kingdom 的帖子
One more point that you should consider in choosing between DSE and IB. I ...
作者: ANChan59 時間: 15-1-24 12:04 標題: 引用：Quote:Lamtau+發表於+15-1-23+10:38+回覆+k
原帖由 kids-kingdom 於 15-01-23 發表
Yes, the school said they are not allowed to offer Chinese B, a restriction imposed by IBO.
不少 lB 學校打緊擦邊球，特別在中、英，數方面。單純計入大學，識得搵，都唔錯架！
你如果問我，我會建議選lB中文A SL，雖然係深d，但我覺得合格會比DSE有把握，因為題目及答案較正路，不會死咗都唔知點解！
作者: Artie 時間: 15-1-24 20:27
kids-kingdom 發表於 15-1-23 11:19
Yes, the school said they are not allowed to offer Chinese B, a restriction imposed by IBO.
作者: Artie 時間: 15-1-24 20:53
Lamtau 發表於 15-1-23 10:38
回覆 kids-kingdom 的帖子
One more point that you should consider in choosing between DSE and IB. I ...
" IB Chinese A, which is not so difficult given that only less than 1% of candidates got a 3 or below in IB Chinese A. "
The high percentage of IB students that pass Chinese A can be easily explained. Even ethnic Chinese students, many of them do not take Chinese A. Most students that chose to take Chinese A are those that have very high chinese language level. Those that are not really that strong would have chosen to take either Chinese B or other languages .
On the other hand, Chinese language is taken by almost all students in local school.
作者: Artie 時間: 15-1-24 21:20
kids-kingdom 發表於 15-1-22 12:46
Background
My son is studying in F3 (NSS curriculum) at St Stephen College and will need to decide w ...
I am not exactly familiar with NSS Chinese. But I agree with anchan59 that IB exam questions are 題目及答案較正路. My children are both taken Chinese B. However with my experience with English A, I can provide some comments. (As far as I know, the internal and external assessments all Language A are quite similar.)
IB Language A exam papers are all essay questions. No multiple choice. The marking scheme of the papers are extremely fair. Students can have their own stands, views and opinions. Students can focus on demonstrating their language skills, and do not have to worry about whether their opinions is the same as the examiner's or the "model answer".
I suggest that you ask the teacher provide you with the curriculum outline and assessment outline of Chinese A Lit and Lang&Lit, HL and SL. Then you can compare which curriculum is more suitable. Lit curriculum is 100% literature. Lang&Lit is 50% literature and 50% language. Lit is only suitable for students that enjoy reading literature of different types of genre.
作者: kids-kingdom 時間: 15-1-25 08:37
本帖最後由 kids-kingdom 於 15-1-25 08:38 編輯
Is it correct to say that Chinese Language and Literature (LL) is more suitable for students if their language skill is not that strong compared to Chinese Language (L) ?
Simply speaking, is LL easier that L or easier to achieve a better score ?
作者: poonseelai 時間: 15-1-25 09:06 標題: 回覆：IB Chinese A SL vs NSS Chinese
我無聽過老師和同學説邊科易D，只聽學生説喜歡邊科多D。如你兒子英文也選A，就選同一科，運用技巧應該近似。
作者: poonseelai 時間: 15-1-25 09:32 標題: 回覆：IB Chinese A SL vs NSS Chinese
你兒子點睇？如果讀個他喜歡多D的科目會動力大D。話時話lBDP是兩年課程，不是中五才選科？中四是否lB預備班，已經要選定？
作者: webeheld 時間: 15-1-25 11:17
It's a bit like considering the variance and returns of both. For DSE Chinese a higher return could be expected (assuming you go to those star tutor classes, in fact to get a 3/4 is not THAT hard and it won't hurt too much on university applications as compared to IB), but at the same time has a slightly higher variance (we all know numerous cases of 'surprising' 2s). For IB Chinese, it is really rather difficult and even if you get a tutor I don't think it is too much of a guarantee. However with adequate support from the school I don't think it is too hard either to get a 4 (although that would be terrible when applying to universities, bear in mind…) - so low return with low variance here.
作者: Artie 時間: 15-1-25 20:35
kids-kingdom 發表於 15-1-25 08:37
Is it correct to say that Chinese Language and Literature (LL) is more suitable for students if their language skill is not that strong compared to Chinese Language (L) ?
Simply speaking, is LL easier that L or easier to achieve a better score ?
It is true that most students prefer doing LL. Since L involves more literature works and thus more genres. Not all genre would be considered enjoyable by all students. On the other hand, the language component of LL is usually more daily life matters, e.g. advertisements or even comic stripes. But it really depends on the personality. Some students love studying literature and feel that they are more confident to score high with L.
作者: Lamtau 時間: 15-1-26 10:19
kids-kingdom 發表於 15-1-23 06:52
Given that the student in this school are local Chinese, I doubt whether they have the resources to ...
I was told that SSC will start offering French AB OR Spanish AB next school year.
作者: caa 時間: 15-1-26 11:00
Lamtau 發表於 15-1-26 10:19
I was told that SSC will start offering French AB OR Spanish AB next school year.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 15-1-26 11:45 標題: 引用：Quote:Lamtau+發表於+15-1-26+10:19+I+was+
原帖由 caa 於 15-01-26 發表
ab can only be group 6 (as alternatives to art subjects) but not group 2 language I guess
作者: caa 時間: 15-1-26 13:10
poonseelai 發表於 15-1-26 11:45
Yea, ab can be taken as second language
作者: joyjoyparent 時間: 15-1-28 22:22
I guess, nowadays, universities won't take it for granted that simply you're chinese, you should have chinese as your mother tongue.
作者: ksenia 時間: 15-3-11 01:13
My D has taken both IB Chinese A SL and DSE Chinese before. She commented that IB Chinese focuses more on literary analysis and she got to appreciate Chinese classics and foreign translated texts, as well as to understand more about Chinese history and culture. She did not like reading before taking IB Chinese but after that she absolutely loves Chinese literature. Thanks to the hard work of her teacher, she got a decent score for Chinese A Literature, and seems like Literature is more safe than L&L since it is quite new (more students in her school got higher grades than those in L&L). For DSE Chinese, her classmates in university think the results are not guaranteed even if they attend tutorial classes outside. Personally, I think DSE Chinese focuses more on exam techniques instead of really learning the essence of Chinese. I would opt for IB Chinese if your school has a good teacher. Unfortunately, IB Chinese is always undervalued because local parents and students always think it is easy, but in fact, it is quite hard to get a good grade.
作者: ksenia 時間: 15-3-11 01:16
Also, HKDSE Chinese, especially writing have very arbitrary grades. My D's friend studied in an elite local school and ended up getting a 3 in DSE writing. And for university admission, HK and overseas universities consider both systems. Not sure about the required standard, but for normal subjects, IB Chinese A level 5 or above is considered good enough to get into good units.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 15-3-11 08:12 標題: 回覆：ksenia 的帖子
香港一般家長，老師及傳媒貶低 lB 中文程度是十分正路及可以理解，唔通會承認香港的 NSS 課程及 DSE 中文評核是垃圾，連鬼子佬的中文比我們一向驕傲 (成日用 HKAL 比其他考試) 的考試強，情何以堪！
事實上，NSS中文課程及DSE考核方法是否能夠幫助學生瞭解，欣賞及愛上中國語文，文學及文化，如果不是，只是標榜中文科吊詭，「深」，玩嘢，家長自己想想，這種教育方式是否學生為本，抑或長官意志。
作者: ksenia 時間: 15-3-11 19:21
from my D's friend:
經常有人聽到我讀IB中文，就笑住咁問我，IB中文係咪好易？鬼佬出嘅題目，會難得去邊？
我敢話，以IB中文A1 SL黎講（甚至A2），我好肯定正常嘅香港DSE中六學生，隨時連題目都理解唔到。IB考嘅係文學知識、欣賞及理解作品深層意義嘅能力，並唔係好似香港咁考5種應用能力。雖然講真，到最後入試場都係考背、考吹，但係起碼我背嘅係文學知識，吹嘅係文學理論，上堂嘅時候有努力學習過點樣去欣賞理解作品，亦有自己讀無數嘅評論、導賞，豐富肚子裏嘅墨水。
雖然有時，我都會覺得所謂嘅“文學賞析”係一件好無聊、主觀、虛無縹緲嘅事，甚至有d荒謬，但係相比起香港學制個種聽說讀寫＋綜合能力嘅學習，邊個先係”贏家“呢（關於有人不滿我之前用“皇者”一詞，識我嘅人應該知道，個個係irony，我心目中嘅“皇者”係DSE，DSE簡直贏晒，我都唔想講到咁白。不過為免爭坳都係用第二個詞語）？香港教你嘅係好practical嘅野，（希望）比你可以係工作上應用翻。但係，學習唔係剩係為左係社會生存，而係為左學習生活、豐富知識、學習思維。呢個都係我選擇讀IB、去英國讀書嘅一大原因。
因為我爸爸成日同我講，教育並唔係剩係為左成績，而係為左學會做一個人。
我好感謝有個咁有經驗嘅啟明燈為我引路。
兩年嘅IB，認真，到最終都係考背，但係我學識左欣賞文學（雖然造詣並不深），學識左曠闊眼光、了解世界時事，學識左獨立研究、寫proposal、做experiment、批判思考，學識左聰明地research、吸收資料再混為一體地應用翻出黎，點樣寫一篇好論文，點樣好好分配時間。而李寶椿更加比我識到一班黎自世界各地、不同文化嘅同學（等我係歐洲有得周圍去旅行），同埋boost my confidence，令我由一個驚驚青青、收收埋埋、乳臭未乾嘅細路，係兩年間成熟左、改變左唔少。多謝大家咁體諒我，比咁多機會我發展，and trusted me with a lot of stuff。
哇，由IB中文講到DSE再講到李寶椿再拉到自己，睇黎IB教育真係對我嘅structure同story-telling能力幫助不少（當然都要多謝突破DJ班）。希望小朋友們好好考慮一下讀IB，原因唔係剩係因為外國承認，又或者讀嘅science／maths比DSE易，而係為左challenge自己，個重點係學識獨立思考、真正學習，令到自己強d，學習做一個人。
And once you've conquered the IB, you know you that can conquer anything (well, hopefully).
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補充：聽完朋友嘅觀點，我都好同意我係好幸運嘅一群。好坦白，讀緊中五嘅我仍然係懵剩剩，IB同李寶椿係我爸爸同我提起，我先知道有d咁嘅野。我好幸運有好緊張我、對教育好有要求嘅家人，而且家境可以支持到我去李寶椿同英國。現實中，可以選擇嘅只係一小撮人。仲記得之前係facebook，有朋友話過“香港嘅教育，係比有錢人玩嘅遊戲。你有錢，就可以讀名校、讀外國學制、入好大學。”當然，你嘅命運係自己掌握，能否飛黃騰達都要睇個人付出同際遇，但家境有錢就有本錢，起跑線上有advantage，呢個係好可悲嘅現實。
以上都講過，我選擇讀IB、去英國讀書嘅“一大原因”係因為覺得外地教學模式應該比較全面，可以訓練思維，學會做人。只係”一大原因“，我並無排除其他原因。都係個句，好坦白，IB係國際課程，聲譽良好，大學比較鍾意，考大學有優勢，有邊個敢話，選擇讀IB個陣完全無考慮過呢一點？去英國讀書，可以體驗外地生活，如果係讀Oxbridge更加有個好響嘅朵。選科方面，我成日都好羨慕個d讀緊自己鍾意嘅科嘅人，我自己就因為家庭嘅問題，選擇左自己並無特別興趣（但並不反感）嘅“實用科”。聽落去好似同我一路講緊嘅野contradict咁，其實唔係。雖然我唔係係香港讀大學，唔係好清楚真正嘅教學模式，但聽講偏向“實用”，例如不論你讀乜科，都係教你死背syllabus同逼你學應用中文。係外地，即使你讀嘅係”實用科“（如econ，engine，law），tutor會想你事前自己讀不同學者嘅評論、篇章，然後係tutorial度討論不同角度同發表自己嘅意見，無話邊個啱邊個錯，希望你可以學習思考。
以上只係我個人感想，無話過我講嘅野全部都係“正確”，亦都從來無講過自己讀完IB高人一等，希望唔好扭曲我嘅觀點，更加唔希望人身攻擊，但歡迎討論。
注：個人感想到此為止，因為讀到以下呢個post先有感而發寫左呢篇note，下面文字並不全部代表我的意見。
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轉載：“當連外國的中文科試題都比香港的還要好，可見香港的教育多失敗。以下是IB中文科試題，要求學生從自己之前所學的文章分析：‘“對文學而言，那些沒有把著眼點放在對人的關注上的作品，應該是毫無價值的，而好的作品則完全是從人的靈魂入手。”以所學作品為基礎，談談你對上述論點的看法。
“詩人不但要走向內心世界的深處，同時也要探求外部世界的真實，從而使個人體驗與社會生活在作品中得到融合。”所選詩人中如何在其作品中將上述兩者融合並加以表現？’
這些題目出得很難，但真的很好。我相信香港95﹪學生都不會答到。香港的中英文科淪為能力訓練，訓練所謂的聆聽能力，歸納能力。口試成了虛偽的互相擦鞋。而所謂的獨立思考能力又要移居到通識科加以訓練。充斥偽科學式的能力分類。當局完全沒意識到獨立思考能力從來就是與語言能力掛勾，與學識掛鉤，與肚子裡的墨水掛鉤。而語言能力強的人必然懂文學。
這是香港教育的悲哀，學科能力化，實用化。”
作者: 武航 時間: 15-3-12 00:31
閣下女兒友人的文章是很好的明證:
1. lpc 是一所很出色的學校, 培育很多廣闊視野, 正面的年青人. 文章思路清晰, 言之有物,
2. 一個留英讀大學的年青人, 她的中文水平應該是在她的中學年代所訓練出來的吧, 那麼ib chinese hl 絕不是坊間所言的"好容易"
祝願年青人前程錦繡!
作者: ksenia 時間: 15-3-12 15:07
武航 發表於 15-3-12 00:31
閣下女兒友人的文章是很好的明證:
1. lpc 是一所很出色的學校, 培育很多廣闊視野, 正面的年青人. 文章思路 ...
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