教育王國
標題: 關於英基的質疑（來自英基家長） [打印本頁]
作者: wangdua0625 時間: 14-10-17 14:20 標題: 關於英基的質疑（來自英基家長）
2014-10-08 雲 教養女王
雲是位溫婉的母親。人如其名，她從中國到了日本，長居十年後到了香港，七年後再到了美國居住至今。邊走邊看，雲近距離觀察著日本、中國香港和美國的教育。
她將為“教養女王”帶來系列國際教育文章。請支持原創，轉載前聯繫“教養女王”（Wechat订阅号：hongkongparenting）。我們有更多原創系列將陸續推出，請點擊標題下方“教養女王”關注。
隨著時間的流逝和對學校更深入的瞭解，驚喜與感動過後我開始對ESF學校的教學方式產生各種疑惑。
最初的疑惑源於一次教室義工活動。兒子一年級第二學期時，我第一次在數學學習時間到教室幫忙，發現小朋友的數學水準懸殊極大。5、6歲的小孩，有的在掐著手指做10以內的加法，有的則已經在做兩位數的加減。
為何差別那麼大？通過與其他家長的交流，我發現原來大部分小朋友都在校外補習。不僅數學，補習英語拼音、英語寫作的也大有人在。
為什麼每月交6、7千的學費，大家卻還要再付幾千塊到校外補習？為什麼上國際學校卻還要補習英語？我能想到的第一個原因便是學校教的不夠。而兒子在英基3年多的經歷也證明這確實是原因之一。讀、寫與計算，應該是在小學階段必需打好的基礎，可是英基給我的感覺是這些基礎教學做得不夠。
首先，雖然算是半私校，英基卻是大班教學。從一年級到六年級，每個班級有30個小朋友。1-3年級除了班級老師外，每個班級還有一名助教，4-6年級則一個年級5個班共用一名助教。
這樣的班級規模，中高年級還可以接受，低年級就實在是太多人了。雖然老師一般會把30個人分成5個小組，以小組為單位進行學習，但我在當義工時看到的情況是，在短短的教學時間內，老師很難顧及到每個小組，所以大部分小組其實是跟著助教或媽媽義工在學。
我不知道助教有沒有教師資格，但曾經在學校網站上看到招聘助教，時薪100港元，並沒有要求有什麼資格。兒子上的這所學校的助教大多是印度人，英文的發音比較獨特，我不是很喜歡。這麼大的班級，根本不能期望老師能夠瞭解小朋友的個性因材施教。
其次，學校沒有教科書，幾乎沒有家庭作業，沒有考試。除了Inquiry主題的學習，讀、寫與計算等基礎知識的學習，非常不明了，不知道學校在教什麼，也不知道小朋友掌握的程度。
特別是數學，因為與主題的學習關聯性較少，根本不知道老師有沒有在教。換句話說，想在家裡幫小朋友補補課，都無從下手。
學校在學年結束時讓學生帶回他們在學校用過的所有練習本，很多本子都只是用了寥寥幾頁。記得兒子二年級結束時帶回來的數學本子，不僅只用了屈指可數的幾頁，每頁裡還只有10以內加減的少數幾題運算，詢問之下，說是老師讓他們自己給自己出題，然後自己解答。有家長說老師教數學是隨機的，想到什麼教什麼。這一點雖然無從考證，但學校確實給了我這種感覺。
閱讀方面，昨天提到老師有幫學生測閱讀等級，這本是很好的一個制度，但有些老師卻沒有定期幫學生測試，導致學生很長時間都停留在同一個閱讀水準。我兒子以及他身邊的幾個朋友都經歷過這種情況。
至於寫作，雖然在學校有很多寫的機會，但基本上屬於自由寫作，老師也沒有為每個小朋友批改。這種方式，在低年級時可以看到小朋友有很大進步，但到了3、4年級，各種缺點如語法錯誤、文章結構就顯露無遺。
和很多家長一樣，當我意識到了這些問題的存在後，我也開始讓兒子到校外補習數學和英文寫作。後來因為兒子不喜歡校外的補習，我開始到處買習題本在家讓他做。
我很慶倖自己及時發現問題，花了很多時間與不願做習題的兒子做鬥爭，所以當我們搬到美國後，兒子能夠跟上這邊的學習。
我們在香港時的一位美國鄰居，就沒有那麼幸運。這位鄰居的大兒子，和我兒子在同一所英基學校上了3、4年級和5年級的兩個學期。之後，他們搬回了美國，去年年底當我們在美國重逢時，這位美國媽媽告訴我，他兒子回到美國後，數學跟不上，老師需要幫他補課。這位媽媽無奈地說：快離開香港時才知道大家都在校外補習。
我的另外一位日本朋友，有一對子女也在同一所英基學校。他們課外在一所日語補習學校補習日本小學的各項課程，包括數學、科學等。去年，他們舉家搬到英國，大女兒成功考進了一所私立中學。事後，這位日本媽媽告訴我：還好有到日語補校補習，因為女兒說很多數學考題都是在補校學的，學校根本沒教過。
還有一位朋友的女兒則在入讀英基中學後開始到校外補習。這位朋友說，中學雖然有很多功課，但一樣沒有進行系統教學，因為自己已經教不了了，只好開始到校外補習。
據我所知，香港其他的一些國際學校，雖然也採用IB課程，但基礎教學還是抓得很緊。曾經聽過家長抱怨英基的老師是終身雇傭制，所以不夠敬業。也聽過來自英國的家長抱怨英基就是英國的公立學校。
以上我不知是否屬實，根據我的經歷，我只能說如果把小朋友送入英基的學校，家長要麼要有時間和能力自己教基礎知識，要麼要有財力送小朋友到校外補習。如果能做到這一點，那麼在香港英基算是一個不錯選擇。
另外，有些家長覺得小朋友比較內向、沒有自信，所以希望送小朋友進國際學校可以變得自信開朗一些。對這一點，我很難認同英基會是很好的選擇。除了前面提到英基是大班教學，老師很難顧及到每位小朋友這一點之外，兒子在英基3年多，我發現學校很少有需要在大家面前發表的口頭作業。
另外，Inquiry的學習有很多小組活動，每個人自由選擇自己的職責，我兒子也是比較沒有自信的人，所以通常都不會選擇演講。在這樣的環境裡，往往是原本外向自信的小朋友多機會發言而越來越自信，內向的小朋友則沒有太多的機會表現自己。除非碰到特別用心的老師，但是很遺憾雖然我每年都會和老師溝通，希望老師多鼓勵兒子發言，不過效果並不明顯。
作者: bristol 時間: 14-10-17 16:29
回覆 wangdua0625 的帖子
英基現時仍有政府淮貼，學費比其他國際學校便宜，所以仍很受歡迎。
作者: Rickykhlam 時間: 14-10-17 16:42
If ESF is so bad? Why there are so many people still wait for the vacancy at their kindergarden/primary school/secondary school? Why there are so many " superstar " students in the public examination?
I am not quite understand? Please advise, thanks.
作者: lui 時間: 14-10-17 16:46 標題: 回覆：wangdua0625 的帖子
如果說補習風氣代表了英基，那也代表了其他國際學校。我聽到見到的例子不是這樣
作者: Jane1983 時間: 14-10-17 17:06
如果這篇文章能够在國内廣傳，未嘗不是好事。
作者: iamadc 時間: 14-10-17 18:19 標題: 回覆：關於英基的質疑（來自英基家長）
請問有什麼本地ib 學校教得好又易入？vsa CKY 真道嗎? 我兒子k2 讀veo，選vsa是否正路選擇?
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 14-10-17 18:32
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 14-10-17 18:35 編輯
依個世界好多時都係隔離飯香, 殊不知係你睇我好, 我睇你好. 事實係大把 selective schools 的老師一樣係差到嘔. 你見某些學校嘅成績特別標青, 查實咪又係因為有好多學生在校外補習嘅成果. 其實每個人對自己子女嘅要求都唔同, 學校亦無可能完全迎合每位家長嘅需要. 最好就係因應各人嘅需要, 自己作出安排. 如果覺得子女追唔上咪安排補習囉. 又或者想科科考第一咪考慮揾人補囉. 如果覺得成績無嘜所謂, 最緊要係讀得開心無壓力, 唔補亦都無問題. 最緊要係唔好以為每月比幾千元學費, 學校就會教導你的子女到達你心目中嘅水平, 因為你心目中唔達標嘅水平隨時係別人眼中超標嘅水平. 況且英基是 non-sective school, 同學之間嘅水平比selective school 的相差更大. 要 cater for 所有同學的需要難度亦更高.
作者: lui 時間: 14-10-17 18:59 標題: 回覆：iamadc 的帖子
Per my friend whose has two gals. Elder one in ESF from primary till secondary. Younger from a hot Private primary school and change to ESF at year 7. She said the English level of her elder is very high , can write very well. But the younger is obvious not. No tutorial until year 11 when the elder asks for maths subject.
作者: lui 時間: 14-10-17 18:59 標題: 回覆：bobbycheung 的帖子
Well said
作者: lui 時間: 14-10-17 19:04 標題: 回覆：bobbycheung 的帖子
Not long ago I read a passage about a mixed child schooling in Hk. He entered ESF for kinder then left for US after 2 years. Then he returned back after two years but esf didn't take him back as they said his English standard did not meet the basic requirement. The mom was frustrated and GSIS took him provided that she has to send him to extra tuition . Then the mom refused and got into another school ( forgot the name) . So everything have two sides.
作者: happyhealthymin 時間: 14-10-17 19:11 標題: 引用：Per+my+friend+whose+has+two+gals.+Elder+
原帖由 lui 於 14-10-17 發表
Per my friend whose has two gals. Elder one in ESF from primary till secondary. Younger from a hot P ...
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 14-10-17 19:31
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 14-10-17 19:42 編輯
回覆 happyhealthymin 的帖子
這個有少許難度, 因為有D家長話仔女無補習, 但在補習社又撞到佢, 仲唔止係一間添.
作者: Choisumwong 時間: 14-10-17 20:31
回覆 wangdua0625 的帖子
I am a previous ESF parent. My kids (two) entered ESF kindergarden, primary school and middle school.
I think you misunderstand that ESF schools have high academic level and are eager to teach and push students.
On the opposite, they are quiet liberal and relaxing. My kids did enjoy very much in their childhood in ESF school.
Since I am a local Chinese, I am aware I need to give extra English supplement for my kids. Mandarin is poorly taught, so extra tuition is needed. ESF schools are popular among HK parents for various reasons. I summarise some points as following:
Advantages--English medium of teaching
--cheaper
--less homework
--better facilities
--IB course
--internationally mixed students
Disadvantages--non-selective (apart from English)
--higher turnover rate of teachers
--not academically focused
--many local parents with tradition strategy/studying method
--many students with special needs
--need to pay extra-curricular activities
--many bright students underachieve
My daughter realised the problems in year 7 and asked to go abroad. I discussed with her and monitored the school for one and finally agreed to let her go. I experienced some unhappiness when I found my daughter's school was not supportive. Same problem happened again when my son left the school.
Choosing ESF is the result of chid's character, parent's expectation, change in society and past school record.
No school is perfect. But I am sure ESF kindergarden and primary school are good for potential students.
作者: happyhealthymin 時間: 14-10-17 20:45 標題: 引用：回覆+wangdua0625+的帖子
I+am+a+previous
原帖由 Choisumwong 於 14-10-17 發表
回覆 wangdua0625 的帖子
I am a previous ESF parent. My kids (two) entered ESF kindergarden, primary ...
作者: mugtaitai 時間: 14-10-17 21:18
happyhealthymin 發表於 14-10-17 19:11 
Nice sharing. It really depends on the individual student. Meanwhile can any existing ESF parents sh …
I don't have too much complaint about the school academically. My son's doing well in every subject. He took the iGCSE exam earlier this year and had pretty good result (3 A and 7 A*). He took the PSAT last year and scored 95 percentile. Considering the amount of homework he's had all these years and how much fun he's having at school, I am actually quite happy with what he has achieved academically so far. He might do better if I had pushed him harder with more extra tutoring but what's the point. I am not a tiger mom
作者: Choisumwong 時間: 14-10-17 21:31
回覆 happyhealthymin 的帖子
My kids went to UK. Their schools are academically selective . Compared with ESF, the main differences are following :
--personally more independent
--adequate P/E and game time
--more effective learning in class (teachers teach in more details)
--more discussion and exchange of idea in class
--teachers are highly qualifield
--well mixed international students
--many social clubs
--big music department and many shows and performance
--big sport field and better facilties
--teachers' comments are mostly constructive
--3 reports per year to assess progress
--adequate homework with better feedback
--less dependent on computer work
--classmates are mostly smart
--longer school time
--higher school fee
--feel better and close communication with parents
--emails are promptly replied
However, their schools need high self-discipline and high motivation. Not every student is suitable.
作者: torunpoland 時間: 14-10-17 22:00
以上我不知是否屬實，根據我的經歷，我只能說如果把小朋友送入英基的學校，家長要麼要有時間和能力自己教基礎知識，要麼要有財力送小朋友到校外補習。如果能做到這一點，那麼在香港英基算是一個不錯選擇。-->呢句真係萬能key!
如果把小朋友送入cky學校，家長要麼要有時間和能力自己教基礎知識，要麼要有財力送小朋友到校外補習。如果能做到這一點，那麼cky算是一個不錯選擇。
或者
如果把小朋友送入FIS學校，家長要麼要有時間和能力自己教基礎知識，要麼要有財力送小朋友到校外補習。如果能做到這一點，那麼FIS算是一個不錯選擇。
作者: callmebabe 時間: 14-10-17 23:14 標題: 引用：如果這篇文章能够在國内廣傳，未嘗不是好事
原帖由 Jane1983 於 14-10-17 發表
如果這篇文章能够在國内廣傳，未嘗不是好事。
作者: naschkatze 時間: 14-10-17 23:35 標題: 引用：2014-10-08+雲+教養女王雲是位溫婉的母親。
原帖由 wangdua0625 於 14-10-17 發表
2014-10-08 雲 教養女王
雲是位溫婉的母親。人如其名，她從中國到了日本，長居十年後到了香港，七年後再到 ...
英基可能比較適合喜 socialize 外向的小朋友就讀. 此外英文有基本要求. 英基學校有本地學生及非本地比例 (30% vs 70%, correct me if I am wrong, Private school 例外). 非本地生家庭很多是native speaker, 子女的英文自然是從家長學到很多. As a native English speaker 學英文跟 as a foreigner 學英文相信不一樣.
作者有她/他的道理, 英文程度沒有信心及沒有經濟能力外補的話, 要三思選校.
其他科目嗎？跟中學課程比較, 小學課程 is nothing, 小學嗎？語言丶社交丶多運動最重要. 語言範疇上細分也有 priority. Reading, Oral are essential. Writing and compose 相對可遁序漸多. 年齡一到他們自然容易掌握. 小學嘛？學習也不應單從書本出發.
懂教育的自然會明白, 相反不如讀本地學校.
不要因單單不願孩子接受填鴨而去讀國際學校.
作者: hkparent 時間: 14-10-18 08:38 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+wangdua0625+於+14-10-17+發
原帖由 naschkatze 於 14-10-17 發表
各下孩子因英語能力略弱而缺自信？可告訴家裡家人跟孩子交談大部分時間用什麼語言？
英基可能比較適合喜 s ...
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-10-18 09:39
本帖最後由 samsam123321 於 15-12-23 20:28 編輯
del.
作者: Choisumwong 時間: 14-10-18 10:26
I know some parents with local mindset actually turn ESF schools into "battle field". They boost their kids with extra tution and try to donminate in school activities. They look down on students with different talents or silent character. They always complain about progress, teachers and school. They always compare ESF with local elite schools. So sadly, ESF schools (especially secondary) are no longer happy place for cheerful and potential students.
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-10-18 12:20
其實補習的事，都是家長自己問題。我睇到是英基每年gcse ib 成績都很好。睇到佢地學生唔local school學生的不同。校內又無考試成績。基本上無壓力。
至於大班問題，你要明白，如果唔係全資助，老師人工已經佔了支出很多，有數得計。而且英基已經係國際學校中差不多最平。
作者: HKTHK 時間: 14-10-18 12:27
回覆 wangdua0625 的帖子
I see nothing wrong about the school from the article. The teaching of Math and Writing are actually quite standard and practices adopted by other schools in HK and around the world. What I see is a parent who doesn't do their homework on what the ESF schooling system is about and also what it means to be academically excellent.
作者: tcbobo 時間: 14-10-18 14:44 標題: 回覆：HKTHK 的帖子
其實學校提供了很多網上學習的資源，佢地放學自己睇，去下圖書館，已經ok, 唔使補習
作者: nintendo 時間: 14-10-18 15:12
As a ESF parent, I tend to agree the primary school teaching are not as solid as some other international schools. For students that lack motivation to learn on their own, seeking outside help (i.e. getting a tutor) might be a way of helping them enforcing what they have learnt at school.
作者: beekay 時間: 14-10-18 22:25 標題: 回覆：關於英基的質疑（來自英基家長）
I think all ESF primary schools somewhat different. They are all under the ESF state but the "standard/quality" of the schools in overall actually depends on the senior management of the school on how they run the schools. IB is after all NOT a curriculum but a learning approach, if I have to simply put it.
Parents ( demographic) of the ESF school matters too. Some ESF schools are more populated with certain type of parents (of local parents) while one or two ESF Primary schools in the HK Island are more populated with international families (and parents of better educated). The expectation of the parents do determine the reaction of the schools, if you know this.
From my observation, I feel that many parents here are talking about the ESF schools which are more populated with local families?! (Of certain types, some are expecting a pushy style of learning as in the local schos, some may know little about IS and are completely happy/ impressive with the different schooling experience )
Nothing wrong with the family background but may be the perception and expectation on the "international schooling" or IB are difference, hence the voices about ESF schools (positive and negative voices I mean).
作者: esther.cy 時間: 14-10-19 22:52 標題: 引用：I+know+some+parents+with+local+mindset+a
原帖由 Choisumwong 於 14-10-18 發表
I know some parents with local mindset actually turn ESF schools into "battle field". They boost the ...
作者: hb12699 時間: 14-10-21 13:05 標題: 回覆：關於英基的質疑（來自英基家長）
I would like to say the esf is training the students " ways of thinking " rather than the solid knowledge
The second things is the linguistic skills
Such as reading , speaking and writing
They spend the primary stage to practice all those skills and develop a good science concept as a foundation
That's why local school students are very good for the exercise and practicing skills and exam but not easy to understand a principal or theory part
作者: beekay 時間: 14-10-22 01:40 標題: 回覆：hb12699 的帖子
I agree with you.
These "skills" are indeed more aligned to where we are heading to in future. How difficult is it to acquire facts nowadays with a click away from google and Wikipedia? Most Asian local schools still focus on memorizing facts, the more the merrier!
Having said that, whether the ESF school (or any international schools with good association with IB) is able to deliver what it's supposed to is another story. It's easier said than done, some schools simply don't have the teachers or adequate resources to commit to a successful delivery of the IB programs.
Some schools are with majority of parents of different mentality and expectation which do not help with the successful delivery either.
作者: CapricornO 時間: 14-10-22 14:07
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作者: licpd 時間: 14-10-22 16:58
I had seen how classes were conducted in local and IB international schools and I would say what makes the difference are the teachers! A good teacher would inspire kids and make kids enjoy learning regardless which school she/he is teaching.
作者: JeanTUNG 時間: 14-10-22 19:40 標題: 回覆：CapricornO 的帖子
Which campus ? Abacus one is different from what u described . As recalled, I rec'd email from playgroup teacher last year. They requested parents /helper not to talk & disturb the class. The teacher did encourage kid to participate in the playgroup class. FYI, Abacus playgroup teacher are its kinder EA.
作者: CapricornO 時間: 14-10-23 23:22
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作者: gatochat 時間: 14-10-24 00:09
The playgroup of ESF is separate from the Kindy and is managed by ESF Language Services. The teachers of kindy might also be employed by the ESF Lang, which also run weekday/end language classes.
作者: nintendo 時間: 14-11-9 12:00
I am curious, how many parents here (both in the this topic and generally in ek) have children in ESF upper secondary, and still want to praise the schools so positively?
Do not mistaken me. I am a ESF parent. I do believe ESF is a good system. I have one child graduated already, and another one in upper secondary. They are both doing great. However, I do not believe the "good samples" should be used all the time as examples. There are so many students that are NOT doing well.
Yes, there are many students that score 40+ at ESF. But there are MANY ESF schools and thus if you look closely at the statistics, you will see the percentage is not exactly high. 一將功成萬骨枯 We ESF parents tend to be so proud of ESF and love to boast about the students with 40+. But how many of us are willing to tell everyone that the percentage of students that are not doing well are actually very high too? Are we all aware that there are many that get a 31 and 32 only at IBDP? And there are many that end up in "wild chicken universities or colleges"? And there are many who end up never able to go to tertiary education?
Please. Please. ESF kindergarten and primary parents. 請勿神化 ESF ！Do not live in your shell and feel so contented and proud. Education for YOUR OWN kids are more than just boasting amongst your friends and on EK.
Amongst the students that get 40+ in IB, many have been with a local school. So it is very likely YOUR child is probably not one of these top students.
ESF primary is not solid compared to other international schools. I think many parents with children in secondary know what I meant. When I said "solid" primary education, I am not talking about duck feeding, drilling, etc. I am talking about really good support and enforcement.
I have friends with children in other international schools. I think some other schools are doing a much better job in helping students with enforcing what they learnt. Children are sponge. They learn easily. At school and on their own. However, how to help them enforce and make use of their skills and knowledge?
The problem with senior secondary ESF is that, most home grown ESF kids (from ESF primary) are doing fine with very basic skills (basic reading, basic writing, basic math, etc). Yes, they love reading but so what? Many lack higher level skills (research skills, quality writing skills, analytical skills, etc). Even worse, many even lack the initiation or wish to do well with IGCSE or IBDP. Reading skills and the love for reading is fantastic. I think this is a surprise to many local grown parents. However, that is not enough for secondary education.
Please stop being so happy and contented. Step back and open your eyes. There have been a lot of parents that raised issues with ESF (in particular primary schools). Please read and see with an open mind and stop to step out and defend the school for now. Think and see whether that is indeed issues.
As a parent who have kids that are doing great at ESF, I really want to point out that there are MUCH MORE kids that are not doing well.
Not that they are stupid. Most kids are not stupid. I merely think that they lack the quality to succeed not because of their own ability but because of the lack of high level skills. And those high level skills do not simply pop up. They have to be gradually introduced, taught, and encouraged. At ESF, they are just not doing as much as their counterparts (i.e. other international schools).
作者: 964000 時間: 14-11-9 17:47
nintendo 發表於 14-11-9 12:00
I am curious, how many parents here (both in the this topic and generally in ek) have children in E ...
作者: elmostoney 時間: 14-11-9 19:00
本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 14-11-9 19:13 編輯
I am an ESF parent with one child in ESF and one in ICA, and I share the sentiments with the original article. The only after school tuition we do with a private tutor is Chinese. I have been a parent volunteer in their math session as well. What was mentioned was EXACTLY my experience. As I posted my experience already, I won't repeat here. You can read it in another thread
http://www.edu-kingdom.com/forum ... 6040&extra=page%3D1
BTW, I don't think we have THAT many kids doing private tuition in math and English in our school as our student mix is about 60% or more non-Chinese. In fact, I am not even sure if we have that many kids doing Chinese tuition! My son is in Y3 and the native Chinese class only has 6 kids!
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-10 12:27
本帖最後由 samsam123321 於 15-12-23 20:28 編輯
del.
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-10 12:34
本帖最後由 samsam123321 於 15-12-23 20:28 編輯
del.
作者: lui 時間: 14-11-10 13:02 標題: 引用：咁樣講，計百分比，每年有20幾%gcse+a+星，
原帖由 samsam123321 於 14-11-10 發表
咁樣講，計百分比，每年有20幾%gcse a 星，又是non elective,成績已算英國私校的前列。同全港其他出名成績 ...
前文家長提到好多underperformed,入野雞、入不到大學。好多是什麼意思？英基每年千多位畢業生，以人數或是%計有很多？有學生入不到大學是正常，反正學校是non selective .香港local school 好中學入大學%也只是60-70%（不是DGS, SPCC).不過esf 家長可能有能力送外國讀書，所以大學率應該高於此%.我阿女也在ESFjunior secondary ，剛入.如果擔心㡳打不好，我估只有入傳統local school先穩陣。所以細女我也未decide 定入local school 定IS.不過我見幾多ESF學生也是表現不錯iB分數不差(36-38）.也沒有什麼補習。
作者: elmostoney 時間: 14-11-10 13:46
本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 14-11-10 14:07 編輯
samsam123321 發表於 14-11-10 12:34
數學方面，你可以話佢地跟本唔同Ls咁教法。佢地跟本係唔操練!所以計數肯定係差。都係果句，你入去前已知道 ...
入左都可以批評掛? esf教數最大问题唔係操練咁簡單，係老師兼顧唔到咁大班，而程度的variance咁大。esf吸引我係因有中学，相对易入，好近我家。因我大女係其他IS讀，我当然会拿兩者比較。我唔轉埋2個一齐主因係大女学校冇中学。
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-10 14:04
跟本佢地對教學目標的concept都唔同， 大部分香港人係以成績為目標。所以要操練。佢地只教你想，無練習課本，你家長覺得唔夠咪自己買本練習自己操law,但你硬要學校改變幫你操練，對唔住，你入之前已知學校情況係咁，你都要入?要知道唔係個個父母都想操練。而且，佢公開試成績睇唔到有咩問題。真係担心，我建議係買本練習自己操吧！
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-10 14:31
我想，大家真係不要對esf學校有太多期望，家長如果覺得考試成績係十分重要，應該自己對子女加強訓練。因為小學無考試，對於放任子女學習係非常危險，要多加注意，不要只靠學校
作者: oooray 時間: 14-11-10 14:52
回覆 nintendo 的帖子
非常有深度的評論。
ESF中學現行直升；照單全收的制度；有唔讀書的學生是必然；(local school都會分下Band 123)。作為一個小學家長；不難想像上到中學後；學生質素會有天堂地獄之分。
作者: Jane1983 時間: 14-11-10 14:56
真係，local school都有band123生，國際學校學生又點會個個都係天之驕子！？
學生吾會因為入咗一間學校，就自自然成才，變得好叻，尤其Esf係有教無類，英文過關就收的non selective school。
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-10 16:34
英基既問題係大班，但其實又係錢的問題，其實想下都估到，起碼要30個學生先養得起兩個老師再加行政，要小班，係要加學費，家長又願不願意。仲要每位家長都認同多功課，多reinforcement 先可以實行其他精英學校的模式。依個模式同傳統英基模式係唔同，我睇都好難改變。
所以，如喜歡英基所提供的好處（可能係較低學費，多活動，英語教育），又不滿部分學業成績不達本地水準，請家長跟緊些，如果放任不理，在中文，數學上，在小學畢業前極有可能低過本地生水準。
作者: Radiomama 時間: 14-11-10 19:46 標題: 回覆：Jane1983 的帖子
贊同你的看法。
作為英基PIS的家長，兒子在Y6, 見到他將要面對中學挑戰，的確步步為營。
我也曾做parent helper, 入課室幫忙小組進行；我的意見是英基跟普遍學校一樣，最叻與最沉底的學生都需要分開照顧。
作者: bebemuimui 時間: 14-11-10 20:34 標題: 回覆：Radiomama 的帖子
去麥記要食油炸鬼,唔該返去粥店.
客觀睇,全球IB平均2X分,英基3X分,起碼佢冇輸給全球.
我細個讀1級2百多人每班42人,只有30人入到Band1,你想唔想英基變成咁？
30人已經算小班，我自己滿意。
英基一早係web列左教學方法,硬要入去啱嗎？
冇一間學校係完美,自己個仔得就讃自己，衰就賴人。我係英基老師會覺得好灰。
作者: happyfleet 時間: 14-11-10 21:15 標題: 引用：贊同你的看法。
作為英基PIS的家長，兒子在
原帖由 Radiomama 於 14-11-10 發表
贊同你的看法。
作為英基PIS的家長，兒子在Y6, 見到他將要面對中學挑戰，的確步步為營。
我也曾做parent he ...
作者: macdullbaby 時間: 14-11-10 21:37 標題: 回覆：bebemuimui 的帖子
講得好啱！
作者: macdullbaby 時間: 14-11-10 21:38 標題: 引用：去麥記要食油炸鬼,唔該返去粥店. 客觀睇,全
原帖由 bebemuimui 於 14-11-10 發表
去麥記要食油炸鬼,唔該返去粥店.
客觀睇,全球IB平均2X分,英基3X分,起碼佢冇輸給全球.
我細個讀1級2百多人每 ...
作者: Radiomama 時間: 14-11-10 22:13
回覆 happyfleet 的帖子
PIS 跟英基小學基本上差不多，一班28人，一級有六班。Y1時每班一位Class Teacher+一位EA, Y2-6就每級有3位EA; 另外學校有聘請SEN teacher, 亦有gifted coordinator, 行IBPYP課程，中文按程度劃分，較好的pathway 3也分了兩班，每班約20人。
硬件不差，但一所學校最重要是要有有heart的老師和有vision的管理層，有時真的可遇不可求。
作者: thomastaxi 時間: 14-11-10 22:45 標題: 回覆：Radiomama 的帖子
本帖最後由 thomastaxi 於 14-11-10 22:50 編輯
我覺得d人美化左LS,細個班老師有幾多識教人?
作者: gatochat 時間: 14-11-10 23:23
For me, I just would like my children to enjoy learning. As long as he enjoys learning and have the right attitude, eventually he will get to where he wants. That's all I want.
I went to a famous local school myself and I started to struggle at upper primary and by the time I was at junior high, I basically gave up on catching up. It was lucky that my parents could afford to send me overseas and I was allowed to catch up on my school work and ended studying Engineering at Uni.
All I wanted to say is that even top schools have the same problem. If I stayed in HK longer, the school would probably get rid of me eventually to make their results look better.
Yes, ESF is an non-selective school, and their results are really quite good considering they have no control on the children's ability at entry level. and I once heard from a friend of mine, ESF really is like state comprehensive schools in the UK.
作者: jolalee 時間: 14-11-11 01:11
保充一句：物離鄉貴。唔好問點解俾唔少錢，ESF只得 UK state schools 的質素。
作者: nintendo 時間: 14-11-11 10:14
elmostoney 發表於 14-11-10 13:46
入左都可以批評掛? esf教數最大问题唔係操練咁簡單，係老師兼顧唔到咁大班，而程度的variance咁大。esf吸 ...
It is really funny, isn't it?
Those that blindly defend the school, and repeatedly stress how good the IB or IGCSE results are, are usually those that have much younger kids. Most parents that think there are "problems" with ESF are usually those that have been with ESF for longer time, and have kids that are much older.
"係老師兼顧唔到咁大班，而程度的variance咁大。"
I totally accept the fact that the variance is huge. Everyone has different abilities. Other schools also have students with relatively poor grades. Even with local elites like DGS or SPCC, they have students that do not perform well. I think I am ok with that. The biggest issue with ESF is however that teachers do not put their hearts in their job. They teach in class and that is about it. Most teachers do not teach with heart.
And I do not agree with what someone said. I do not agree that since we do not pay as high a fee (compared to other schools), we should expect to get less. And, the most frustrating thing is that, there are so many ESF parents that think it is ok to expect less. And they keep asking other parents that have expectations to shut up.
作者: Choisumwong 時間: 14-11-11 10:16
英基是有資源把敎學做得便好，只是管理層太多人，不想改變，便不讓家長知道真相。十年前參加旅行團，有個團友（在英基總部做行政）說英基花了很多錢在總部，所以他的子女只會選讀直資學校，因為比較經濟及合理。我當時也不明白，直到子女在英基讀了多年才明白！
現在英基的學費不算貴，但老師要應付三十，不同能力，不同集中力的學生，實在很難敎得好！
我想英基總部的支出可以減少，學校的敎學管理是有空間改善。
作者: nintendo 時間: 14-11-11 10:25
Choisumwong 發表於 14-11-11 10:16
英基是有資源把敎學做得便好，只是管理層太多人，不想改變，便不讓家長知道真相。十年前參加旅行團，有個團 ...
Most money goes to management at headquarter. Frontline teachers are paid poorly, compared to other international schools. Heard that even the package at the PIS is a lot better than ESF. This may explain why ESF teachers have low spirit.
作者: elmostoney 時間: 14-11-11 11:19
本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 14-11-11 11:21 編輯
nintendo & choisumwong, 同意之極. 我交application form時, 剛好差少少 miss deadline, 所以親自去左佢地個office headquarter交, 唔郵寄. 上到去真係嚇左我一跳, 智能全新office building, 高層全海景, 兩個非常得閒嘅外籍人士receptionists, 無敵大嘅reception區 , 有埋open area 係旁邊開會 (兩個加起來, 比我地外人睇到, 唔係坐office人嘅地區, 我估過千呎), 但地方主要都係空空如也. 當時印象好差, 因為我個女係另一間IS讀, 佢地係upstart, 可以見到學校係staffing同office都好慳, 資源都留返比學生, 成一個強烈對比. 感覺就係esf花好多時間美化headquarter, 又唔係物野投資銀行或係誇國公司, 洗唔洗? 佢地要見物野客? 要咁大排場? 點解d $唔係留比學校用? 未上過佢地headquarter嘅家長, 又defend esf嘅教育質素的, 唔該你地自己上去睇睇.
我個仔好幸運, 今年遇上個好有heart嘅老師 (我個女舊年老師), 但佢承認30人, 真係冇法manage到. 我好記得, 舊年我去做parent helper 時, 有個小朋友math分組時唔做野, 我教佢, 佢都唔肯. 後來我問老師, 睇下洗唔洗同佢照肺. 老師話佢係外國來的, 剛係個年開學轉來, 程度追唔上, 但係老師自己表示無能為力, 因為一班人太多, 好難手把手去帶某幾個人.
其實esf學費唔算平, 係家長比得比其他學校少, 但當你加返政府subsidy, 又計返30人一班, 其實比我個女而家讀緊間都係差唔多, 但我個女個間係平均一班20~22人 (雖然話可收到25, 但我所知冇), 所以佢地一班收的總學費, 其實比esf一班收入少. 印像中聽講政府冇subsidy計, 過幾年入學的學生學費約一萬, 我個女而家學費就係一萬. 即係話esf 一班可收三十萬學費.
至於我之前所講操練, 唔係講帶物野功課返屋企狂做, 我個女都冇. 我覺得返全日學的小學, 最好大部份都係學校做. 我知我個女學校有工作紙, 數量比我個仔係esf多, 而esf老師不一定會check, 即係你有你做, 對錯就未必次次知, 最重要都係assessment. 但我個女個間學校就一定會 check. 老師對學生progress相對esf, 我覺得跟得緊好多, 但我個女返學都一樣冇壓力.
當然有人會問, 點解我唔轉埋阿仔去阿女學校, 既然我講呢間比esf好, 因為佢地係新校, 冇中學, 呢個係 唯一原因. 早兩日我先同我先生傾, 如果唔係中學原因, 唔需要揀, 我地第一時間會轉返細仔去大女間學校.
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-11 11:28 標題: 下
本帖最後由 samsam123321 於 14-11-11 11:48 編輯
教學好同差是怎樣來定論？大部分香港學校是以成績來定論。可借的是，英基小學是無測驗。有人問，點解無測驗，我無探究，但我相信佢地有佢地理念，可能有其他有識之士可以分享。我倒是很想知道，點解佢地教學咁差，但又可以有遠高於平均的公開試成績。會否有人在高中前被踢出校，再加入新血？以我自己觀察，中學會有本地名校生加入，但不多。而佢地成績通常都是中上。但不是一定比英基小學升上來的好。
我相信，成績好壞，是要有付出，包括學生和家長。本地學生年年月月咁樣温習，做功課，成績通常都會好過英基普遍學生。但我會反問，是不是所有英基學生成績都差？點解佢地係咁差的教學質素（如你相信是），都會有好成績，而且不是一個兩個，係總體公開試成績都好。我自己會想，這應該是結合了家庭，學校，老師，學生自己的功勞。當我覺得我小朋友學業上有問題，我會先分析點解會咁，是自己太放任不管，還是老師有問題，又或是學校的style 跟本同自己的expectation 不同。
作者: elmostoney 時間: 14-11-11 12:38
本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 14-11-11 12:52 編輯
我唔明點解大家硬係覺得呢度有其他意見的家長係講緊考試呀, 分數呢d, 我ar哂頭. 因為我個女間學校都冇考試的, 佢地學校係由一個esf 資深任教20+年老師set up, 好多模式跟esf都類似, 但係佢當時針對係esf見到的問題, 嘗試係新校盡量避免. 我當時唔明點解佢成日同我咁講, 佢地所有的錢, 盡量係分毫都用係學生到,而家睇返轉頭, 我個仔都係esf, 我先明, 因為佢個人經歷, 所以有另一番體會.
我以math做例子, 係因為呢個係好黑白, 唔同教英文. 我問細仔, 老師教math情況, 佢話通常最多教兩次, 如果做落唔識就叫佢地問其他同學, 再唔識先問老師. 但我個女個班, 佢話老師教一次, 做, 有人唔明, 唔明就再教唔明個班人, 再做, 再唔明, (呢班人應會一路縮少), 就再抽唔明班人教. 雖然唔保證可一路教落去, 但老師係會重複咁教, 起碼大部份人會明, 真係再唔明, 先睇情況點處理, 當然佢地一樣有分level (15人分3 level). 有時都要alert家長幫手係屋企睇下.
至於不停講到我呢類家長要點操練d仔女, well, a disappointment for you guys. 我地只補中文, 亦從不要求子女參加任何比賽攞獎呢d事, 如果要參加, 都要佢地自願. 我個女學樂器,係今年自己要求, 每日只練5分鐘咁大把. I don't expect the school to do magic, but I do think the school can do a bit more than now. The difference I see between the 2 schools are, teachers are much more hands on and involved in my daughter's school, while in ESF, the case is quite the opposite. I agree that parents need to be involved if you want your children to do better, BUT I also think the teachers need to be more involved as well. I have to constantly do follow up with my son, while I don't have to with my daughter. And I know my children's calibre - my son is more focused and smarter than my daughter. In fact, my son's Y2 teacher quite liked him because he was never a trouble maker - less for the teacher's already filled hands. My daughter's Y1 teacher almost thought she had ADD, and for my daughter to attain the present level is quite impressive (BTW, when she transferred to ESF at the beginning of Y3 (only stayed 2.5 months before transferring back to her present school), her reading level was assessed by ESF as 1 term above their required average).
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-11 12:59
本帖最後由 samsam123321 於 15-12-23 19:57 編輯
del.
作者: Jane1983 時間: 14-11-11 13:53
樓上網友講到Headquarters佔用太多資源，這種校政，家長比意見係好事，希望學校可以改善。又好似以前報導過KGV搵個吾多識普通話的鬼婆教中文，報導後，吾知KGV現狀，但近年部份Esf學校的中文，真係好咗好多。
Esf係歷史悠久的IS，同所有大機構一樣，會好官僚和有吾夠efficient的地方，家長有要求，對學校反映，係好事！
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-11 14:03
用外籍人士教中文，都幾搞笑，不過，如果唔得，同本地人教英文一樣，都應該唔得。
無睇過個報導，可能那外藉人士係土生土長都唔定。
正如教物理，是否一定所有物理考試都a grade?有奧賽奬是否一定好過普通教練？
作者: elmostoney 時間: 14-11-11 14:03
本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 14-11-11 14:12 編輯
而家hk文化真奇怪，唔准批評。其實我都想轉佢走，不過未諗定路向，因Y1讀一間，Y2先轉來，而家先Y3中，我都要考慮轉校太密的影響。但我真心希望可以幫未入又考慮入的家長，令佢地有机会聽下不同意見，而唔係一味追捧。
作者: Jane1983 時間: 14-11-11 14:28
回覆 samsam123321 的帖子
吾係，個英婦只係中國學過一年中文，教學經驗淺，但自己友，一樣上位。不過呢d山頭主義，度度都有，吾係Esf或IS都有。
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/art/20120503/16303196
作者: nintendo 時間: 14-11-11 14:36
elmostoney 發表於 14-11-11 14:03
而家hk文化真奇怪，唔准批評
好多低班家長，根本唔熟 ESF，尤其唔熟中學的情形。
人地討論下，佢地一定出嚟反駁。
年年都見一批新 ESF 家長，不停吹噓，有時真係都幾核突。
其他學校家長好似冇咁巴之閉。
作者: nintendo 時間: 14-11-11 14:44
Jane1983 發表於 14-11-11 14:28
回覆 samsam123321 的帖子
吾係，個英婦只係中國學過一年中文，教學經驗淺，但自己友，一樣上位。不過呢d ...
"不過呢d山頭主義，度度都有，吾係Esf或IS都有"
山頭主義 means using your close friends or family.
I agree 山頭主義 can be everywhere.
However, even with 山頭主義, a teacher still has to have the qualifications.
In this case, if they are hiring the principal's cousin or friend to be a chinese teacher, that person still has to have the qualifications or at least basic knowledge to teach chinese.
I think the problems is not merely 山頭主義 or not.
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-11 14:50
本帖最後由 samsam123321 於 15-12-23 20:27 編輯
批del.
作者: nintendo 時間: 14-11-11 15:01
又講工作紙？
作者: nintendo 時間: 14-11-11 15:08
samsam123321 請多講關於高年級的事給大家知 發表於 20 秒前
=====
Read this topic again.
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-11 15:36
本帖最後由 samsam123321 於 15-12-23 19:56 編輯
del.
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-11 15:52
本帖最後由 samsam123321 於 15-12-23 19:57 編輯
nintendo 發表於 14-11-11 15:01
又講工作紙？
del..
作者: oooray 時間: 14-11-11 16:06
回覆 nintendo 的帖子
其實你的意見；對我作為一個將成為中學家長；好有參考性。暑假前去聽完中學講座後；令我知道中小學課程及學習模式分別真係之大；要成功；家長和學生要非常努力才有機會。
不過我個人比較隨緣；遇到好老師係運氣；遇唔到係理所當然。亦深知一己之力無法改變；都是靠自己穩陣點。
係小學遇到一個好老師；真係令舍不同；一年間可以令孩子突飛猛進；遇到個hea的；最多UOI Report 全是 Meet expectation；
想請問: 但上到中學；subject based；有textbook；老師的作用是否一樣大?遇到一個hea老師；是否自己努力d可以搭夠?
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-11 16:41
本帖最後由 samsam123321 於 15-12-23 19:57 編輯
如del.
作者: macdullbaby 時間: 14-11-11 17:29 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+samsam123321+於+14-11-11+13:
原帖由 samsam123321 於 14-11-11 發表
本帖最後由 samsam123321 於 14-11-11 13:01 編輯
我就最唔想老師講咁多次，如果唔識，就由得佢唔識，因 ...
一般學校都係一班咁教，自己跟唔上，問多老師一次再唔明就自己返屋企問父母、補習老師.....
作者: nintendo 時間: 14-11-11 17:33
oooray 發表於 14-11-11 16:06
回覆 nintendo 的帖子
其實你的意見；對我作為一個將成為中學家長；好有參考性。暑假前去聽完中學講座後； ...
My view is that: with a good teacher, it is going to be the best. However, it can be that we are not lucky and have a teacher that is very hea. My suggestions to students would be to keep contact with friends in other classes and share information. See whether your child's teacher is good. If not good, students would have to work harder.
Yes. Diligence would help. My kids have at different points, had teachers that were not good. My son's ibdp math teacher was not exactly good, so he had to work hard to sort things out. Fortunately, there are lots of books and reference material out there. So it was not too bad.
I think zero homework or worksheet does not really work that well. Look at the public education in the US, UK and Canada. Those are nightmares. I believe that a good balance of homework or worksheet (particularly for math) would help students. If you are concerned, ask your kids to do some kind of homework. No need to do lots, just a little to keep him busy and keep his brain running.
For those that still insist "happy school", I am not here to change anyone's mind.
作者: nintendo 時間: 14-11-11 17:54
samsam123321 發表於 14-11-11 16:41
如果我講，有小朋友考試前無温書，唔做工作紙，都可以係esf 中學班上面拿到高分，係頭一二名，你會否覺得es ...
I see.
I guess you are probably not talking about high school because IBDP does not work that way. With this kind of attitude, I do not think any one would get a score higher than 35.
Most students I know that did well with ibdp are diligent. Even those that are smart and gifted, they have to work hard and do questions on past paper.
I think in EK we have a few parents with talented kids who were ESF students and are now in top universities like Oxbridge, or popular programs in local universities. If I remember right, they were all diligent and none of them can claim to have 無温書.
Anyway, thanks for explaining. I think I now understand your expectations. Revision and drilling is probably not necessary.
作者: Radiomama 時間: 14-11-11 19:41 標題: 回覆：nintendo 的帖子
其實我也好想知道如何為中學做準備。
從前有個想法以為IGCSE 比IBMYP更能為中學生打基礎，但慢慢又好像不是，所以我們又stick to IBMYP; 阿仔説只要他努力，無論在哪間學校都努力，但他好想與現在的同學一起升中，所以我尊重他，也希望他守諾言。
來年Year 7會有3次考試、會派三次report, 會有不同的3 ways conference, 家長們都説功課很多，學生要有好強的自律和時間管理；我已不停向阿仔灌輸這方面的心理準備，但足夠嗎？
作者: elmostoney 時間: 14-11-11 19:43
本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 14-11-11 20:15 編輯
我有幾位親友孩子都在ESF, 有幾個剛畢業兩年, 另外有幾個讀緊upper secondary. 就係早幾日, 讀緊upper primary的其中一個先講緊, 其中一科理科, 個老師HEA到爆, 一堂用左一半講笑同D無謂野, 所以呢科佢變相要自修, 幸好佢本身都係一個committed 的孩子, 識得緊張.
我完全明白nintendo所講, 因為已畢業的親友中, 其中一年, 佢同埋友好的同學都係好勤力, 有D係又SMART又勤力, 佢地就係nintendo口中考到IB 40以上, 甚至滿分個班 (我都見過呢幾個朋友仔), 入港大讀醫, 去oxbridge讀law. What they achieved didn't come from happy learning and no practice/work. They were always doing study groups and stuff from what I saw. 但同時我亦要指出, 我都識得超HEA嘅學生, 入左物學校我就唔講.
What is there to expect from a teacher? I went to a public high school for 5 years in N. America where my parents didn't pay a single dime. I found EVERY single one of my teachers performing - teaching in class, answering questions, serious about tests and attendance - and homework was expected to be turned in (信不信由你, 今年開學時, 我地有個BRIEFING, 學校話HW照比, 但你可以唔交! 係開中名義講). There was never really a "hea" moment so-to-speak. Teachers were assigned to teach the proper subject at a suitable level of their ability. Granted - some teachers might be more fun and grabbed the students' attention more, while others were a bit monotonous. Some might be tougher, while others were more relaxed. BUT I never encountered a case described by my relative when the teacher spends 1/2 the class time doing anything except class-related activities. Every class I took, I did learn and was challenged. Isn't it what education is about? Isn't this what we should expect from teachers?
And I absolutely disagree about the fact that I should have known what I was getting my child into, so therefore, I should not complain. Even upon entering marriage, one would disagree and argue with the other half. One could not have known all aspects until committed. As I pointed out, I am disillusioned in many ways, and I am thinking of possible exits which takes time. On the other hand, if I decided to let him stay, I am considering what I can do for him. 我對小學的要求只係英文同數學打好根基, and looking at the way things are progressing, I doubt it is achievable. I just want to take this opportunity to alert parents who are considering 英基. It's not as rosy as some diehard supporters claim. Try to step back and look at it again.
作者: samsam123321 時間: 14-11-11 20:28
其實都是這麼說，如果個學生係唔勤力，無論你擺佢係邊間名校都是一樣不會有好成績。不如問一問，點解在同一個教學環境下，有人做得到英文，數學都好。夠竟係學校的問題，小朋友的問題，定家長的問題？
作者: macdullbaby 時間: 14-11-11 21:18 標題: 引用：其實都是這麼說，如果個學生係唔勤力，無論
原帖由 samsam123321 於 14-11-11 發表
其實都是這麼說，如果個學生係唔勤力，無論你擺佢係邊間名校都是一樣不會有好成績。不如問一問，點解在同一 ...
如果係都要將個責任推比老師，就自己放學留下來，問問老師有沒有額外時間再教多一次。
作者: hkparent 時間: 14-11-11 23:15 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+samsam123321+於+14-11-11+發
原帖由 macdullbaby 於 14-11-11 發表
同意。每一位學生都有交學費，梗要老師在堂上花額外時間俾跟唔上既同學，咁對一些一學就明既學生也不見得公 ...
作者: elmostoney 時間: 14-11-11 23:54
hkparent 發表於 14-11-11 23:15
As an outsider, I tend to agree to what Nineto and a few other parents said about the weak foundatio ...
作者: 猪猪侠 時間: 14-11-11 23:58 標題: 回覆:關於英基的質疑（來自英基家長）
All ESF students Y3-Y6 participated in the International Schools Assessment (ISA). The results might give everyone more insight.
作者: 猪猪侠 時間: 14-11-11 23:59 標題: 回覆:關於英基的質疑（來自英基家長）
The assessment was held last month.
作者: elmostoney 時間: 14-11-12 00:16
本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 14-11-12 00:38 編輯
點解? 有時都要問下學校同老師.
我個仔唔係物野資優生, 但我知佢去到邊個位. 因為以前佢讀montessori到入y1為止, 再加上本身有d興趣, 所以數底幾好. 上次見家長, 老師同我講, 佢rounding numbers唔識, ok. 唔緊要, 我唔要求學校一定教識每個學生, 自己返去同佢做下都唔係問題. 我嘅驚人發現係, 我用5分鐘教我個仔已明, 達到學校呢個unit要求5位數要rounding的要求. 我見學校話如教到7位rounding就係exceed expectation, 佢既已明左, 有時間咪自己教埋. 我用左15分鐘, 佢基本上已ok, 係要練下. 唔練始終我唔知佢有幾明, 於是每日我比八至十題rounding佢做, 一星期做5日, 我覺得好合理. 佢做呢d 題目, 其實都係三五分鐘.
如果我同阿仔講5分鐘佢能明白, 達到呢個 unit 的平均要求, 而班上已教左一段時間, 我真係冇法諗得明, 點解老師教左一輪, 佢都唔明? 因為相同地, 我個女老師都係話佢rounding唔得, 我教佢, 我好理解老師點解話佢唔得, 因為我自已都用左兩個半鐘去教佢! 仲要攞哂我成套montessori 道具出來!而我個仔, 真係係紙上寫幾個數字, 講幾分鐘野就攪掂. 一個強烈對比下, 我唔明, 起碼呢個concept對我個仔來講唔難grasp, 究竟上課點教?
And I definitely agree with Nintendo. I remember my daughter's Y2 teacher advised me that math is a subject that benefits from practice. I have put my kids on some math hw 4 to 5 times a week. Nothing much. Sometimes from workbook, and sometimes I make up my own according to what they are learning in class or their level. Just 15 minutes a day. My son actually enjoys math. My daughter doesn't, and I can't fanthom how she would do without this practice.
They still have plenty of time to play, so I don't see the problem at all. I think happy learning also needs a certain balance of work and the understanding that one doesn't just get to do whatever is to your own liking all the time. My daughter doesn't like Chinese, but I can't let her get out of it. Freedom without responsibility is not what I want to instill in my kids.
作者: Artie 時間: 14-11-12 09:35
Radiomama 發表於 14-11-11 19:41
其實我也好想知道如何為中學做準備。
從前有個想法以為IGCSE 比IBMYP更能為中學生打基礎，但慢慢又好像不 ...
Doing MYP would definitely be a better preparation for DP. I do not agree with what some people said, saying IGCSE is better. The content of IGCSE is too easy as a preparation for DP. MYP at our school is structured to help students prepare for DP. At our school, there are assessments, tests and exams. So I do believe students do benefit from the challenging curriculum. I will PM you regarding the few cases of switching from MYP to IGCSE.
作者: Choisumwong 時間: 14-11-12 09:42
回覆 猪猪侠 的帖子
So called ISA can not give you true picture of your children because it depends on the samples of comparison. As parents, we want to know whether their skills are suitable among the peers in similar environment like in Hong Kong. It is meaningless to compare with those in other less developed countries or rural areas. Don't be fooled by the word "international". I guess the result will make most parents happy with their kids's progress and skills in ESF !
作者: Artie 時間: 14-11-12 10:13
elmostoney 發表於 14-11-11 23:54
I think happy learning and work can co-exist. they don't have to be mutually exclusive.
As a parent with older children (one in university one in year 11), I think this pretty much sums up what I want to say too.
作者: Artie 時間: 14-11-12 10:31
samsam123321 發表於 14-11-11 20:28
其實都是這麼說，如果個學生係唔勤力，無論你擺佢係邊間名校都是一樣不會有好成績。不如問一問，點解在同一 ...
I think someone answered you already: No pain, no gain. All students that do well with DP are those that work hard.
Actually, you may be surprised. But a lot of kids do enjoy working and enjoy challenge. I have been a parent helper/volunteer when my kids were in primary school. I have met so many kids that actually enjoy being asked to do difficult tasks and enjoy teachers challenging them. My kids, at some point in primary school, enjoyed working on multiplication exercise. I think kids do enjoy making achievements. When they finish a piece of task, they can actually feel happy about it because they know they can actually get things done.
In secondary school, a lot of students form study groups on their own to study and prepare for tests. My son enjoy studying with his friends after school preparing for a test. Not all students enjoy playing all the time. Studying and working can be fun if you have good attitude.
I think it is out dated to presume no work no homework is the ideal dream life of children. Not all children enjoy playing all the time. Some children enjoy work and can benefit from an appropriate amount of homework.
作者: oooray 時間: 14-11-12 10:34
回覆 猪猪侠 的帖子
As a parent, I do not find any relation between the ISA score the child achieved and the teaching quality of particular school or teacher.
作者: soright 時間: 14-11-12 20:02 標題: 回覆：wangdua0625 的帖子
其實讀任何學校，家長都係小朋友的老師，唔係交曬比學校。'
作者: bebemuimui 時間: 14-11-12 20:22 標題: 回覆：oooray 的帖子
My question is why the parents are so picky on esf. I have accepted the fact that though hk is a part of China, which means it is hard for to find well qualified (with heart?gosh!) is teachers,We are paying the lowest school fee among the peer and why should we expect that the teaching quality is the highest ? U can always have an option to revert back to local school stream or move to other schools like cis, sis or German Swiss, which charge high.
As a parent, I have spent much my spare time in helping our kid do some exercises day by day. If u find the school is not challenging your daughter, u should step forward and think about the solutions. At the end of the day, it is the family, not the school responsible for the growth of the kid.
QC is famous for low teaching quality, but the students perform very well in the exam. I am happy to say I like this approach as I always did the self study.
讀書要講書緣同自己的努力,無謂執著學校。
去老麥想食米芝蓮一星？
不如教個仔煮或俾多D去第二間？
但係,你個仔條腸吸收到嗎？
ESF吸引之處係平,較貴族學校平民同規模大。
作者: 紅紅 時間: 14-11-13 16:57 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+elmostoney+於+14-11-11+20:15
原帖由 elmostoney 於 14-11-11 發表
本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 14-11-11 20:15 編輯
我有幾位親友孩子都在ESF, 有幾個剛畢業兩年, 另外有幾 ...
作者: papaof2 時間: 14-11-13 23:23
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作者: HKTHK 時間: 14-11-14 01:26
回覆 samsam123321 的帖子
"遠高於平均的公開試成績"? Are you comparing ESF's IB results with global or HK average?
作者: papaof2 時間: 14-11-14 10:29
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作者: elmostoney 時間: 14-11-14 10:58
本帖最後由 elmostoney 於 14-11-14 11:03 編輯
我有朋友兩個都係esf, 講到天上有地下無, 你以為香港冇is比esf更好. 佢個仔咪又補中, 又補英. 所以平學費所慳的 $ 可拎去補習. 而且我非常唔明, 點解人人都話esf最平, 因為esf有 subsidy, 所以家長out of pocket可能係比其他 IS 比少左學費, 但你加返subsidy 上去, 網上某article話新生冇subsidy要比多23%, 咁小學即係要成$9000/月. 記住係30人一班, $9000, 即一班收入係 $270,000. 有d學校可能係20人/一班, 當$10,000/月, 一班先net $200,000. 有d貴d嘅, 可能$12,000 ~ $14,000, but when you look at the picture, they have lesser students. The income netted from the class is still less or about the same as a 30-student class at ESF. Where did the money go? My question is - is it being spent wisely? Remember - apart from DC (I don't know about RC), unlike other IS - I wouldn't say all, but many probably had to fund the construction of their own building - ESF bears no loan for the school building.
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