教育王國
標題: 讀神科,入iBank [打印本頁]
作者: Fortress 時間: 14-3-22 23:59 標題: 讀神科,入iBank
其實iBank 對世界有什麼貢獻?
真心請教
作者: Obiepapa 時間: 14-3-23 07:39 標題: 引用：其實iBank+對世界有什麼貢獻?真心請教
原帖由 Fortress 於 14-03-22 發表
其實iBank 對世界有什麼貢獻?
真心請教
作者: dobbybabie 時間: 14-3-23 09:14 標題: 回覆：讀神科,入iBank
劫貧濟富
作者: dobbybabie 時間: 14-3-23 09:23 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+Fortress+於+14-03-22+發表其
原帖由 Obiepapa 於 14-03-23 發表
百萬富翁搖籃
作者: Obiepapa 時間: 14-3-23 10:17 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+Obiepapa+於+14-03-23+發表百
原帖由 dobbybabie 於 14-03-23 發表
點止百萬富翁啊，香港地，沒入神科的都有啦，千亿萬富翁啊
作者: Tommy 時間: 14-3-23 11:24
Fortress 發表於 14-3-22 23:59 
騙的工作。
其實iBank 對世界有什麼貢獻?
真心請教
除此之外，差不多所有工作都是塘水滾塘魚，做呃呃騙騙的工作。就算以上兩項主要功能，好多時到最後都變成呃呃騙騙。
其實我都好唔明白，點解呢度啲高質素家長會對呢個行業趨之若騖。
作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-23 12:05
Tommy 發表於 14-3-23 11:24
投行較為能夠創造經濟效益的功能，包括替企業籌集資金，和將市場資金疏導至最具經濟效益的地方。
除此之外 ...
約一年前，在 Ek有篇帖上，有幾位高手清楚分別解釋不同種類的投行業務，部份正如你所說呃呃騙騙，部分是正常銀行業務功能，理應平衡去看。自從金融海嘯之後，監管加強好多，同時去槓桿化之下，銀行投資業務及盈利大不如前，融資，收購合併方面比例增加，但整體就業人數大幅減少。
就中大而言，IFAA 及 QF 是第一年是共同上課，到第二年才分流，現在是四份一人選QF，其他多數選IFAA。原因是投行入息及空缺大不如前，回歸基本步，事實上有些孩子對QF，QFRM真是有興趣，就算就業前景不太樂觀，都會選修！他們都會同時考慮商業銀行及其他金融服務行業。
我不是從事投行，只是概括將之前的帖作簡單講講及加上在大學所見所聞，如有錯漏，望多指正！
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-3-23 12:05 標題: 引用：Quote:Fortress+發表於+14-3-22+23:59+騙的
原帖由 Tommy 於 14-03-23 發表
投行較為能夠創造經濟效益的功能，包括替企業籌集資金，和將市場資金疏導至最具經濟效益的地方。
除此之外 ...
作者: Tommy 時間: 14-3-23 12:49
回覆 ANChan59 的帖子
我的留言真的沒有針對性，我有追蹤您的留言，明白令郎選科純粹以興趣出發。
我明白投行都有正面的功能，但整個行業是鼓勵和獎勵「貪婪」。正正經經默默耕耘的supporting team就算投行賺大錢，都只分多幾個月人工；大部份的花紅都是去了所謂最「賺錢」的部門。
呢個世界，唔呃呃騙騙又如何賺大錢？
作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-23 13:00
Tommy 發表於 14-3-23 12:49
回覆 ANChan59 的帖子
我的留言真的沒有針對性，我有追蹤您的留言，明白令郎選科純粹以興趣出發。
我沒有介懷，一來我瞭解你的為人，二來我只是講出另一角度的觀點！我倆互相交流而已，所以我語氣平和。
再者貪婪亦不止一行，投行賺錢時，那些人賺得更多？一隻手拍不響。
例如我有每股7元收，邊個收得最多？
作者: Tommy 時間: 14-3-23 13:21
ANChan59 發表於 14-3-23 13:00
我沒有介懷，一來我瞭解你的為人，二來我只是講出另一角度的觀點！我倆互相交流而已，所以我語氣平和。
作者: awah112 時間: 14-3-23 14:27 標題: 引用：Quote:Tommy+發表於+14-3-23+12:49+回覆+AN
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作者: Tommy 時間: 14-3-23 17:03 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+ANChan59+於+14-03-23+發表我
原帖由 awah112 於 14-03-23 發表
或者咁講，輸錢既人就會有被呃既感覺，而呢個遊戲，行内人 一定消息快，行動快。行外人就慢，輸咗就覺得比 ...
呢個題目唔應該討論個人的贏輸賺蝕，不過您要講我也不阻您。
作者: awah112 時間: 14-3-23 17:24
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作者: Tommy 時間: 14-3-23 18:37 標題: 引用：我只是講出另一角度的觀點,講既係部份投資
原帖由 awah112 於 14-03-23 發表
我只是講出另一角度的觀點,講既係部份投資人既心態,你認為係主觀武斷的假設亦可以.
正如你認為係'呃呃騙騙 ...
作者: awah112 時間: 14-3-23 18:49
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作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-23 19:39
awah112 發表於 14-3-23 18:49
所以我嗰段係回ANChan59...
作者: Stillgood2 時間: 14-3-23 19:53
awah112 發表於 14-3-23 14:27
或者咁講，輸錢既人就會有被呃既感覺，而呢個遊戲，行内人 一定消息快，行動快。行外人就慢，輸咗就覺得比 ...
我想參加投資 (或係投機)活動都需要負責任. 當然, 有一些個案係投資界未遵守遊戲法則, 當突然出現事故, 投資界沒法負擔合理責任. 結果, 投資者被羲牲, 而有被呃感覺.
而投資內行人會有優勢, 消息和資源肯定與一般投資者有天壤之別.
但, 卻因為身形龐大, 面對突發事故. 風險更大.
作者: ChiChiPaPa 時間: 14-3-23 19:58
Tommy 發表於 14-3-23 11:24
投行較為能夠創造經濟效益的功能，包括替企業籌集資金，和將市場資金疏導至最具經濟效益的地方。
除此之外 ...其實我都好唔明白，點解呢度啲高質素家長會對呢個行業趨之若騖。
作者: Stillgood2 時間: 14-3-23 20:04
個人有一個想法. 投行的人極之聰明. 特別係數學程式.
衍生工具的運用, 係有極之微細的誤差出現.
以一般情況, 這誤差是不會出現.
但係, 因心態問題, 或許是貪婪, 或許是高人技高, 這極微細風險, 會被視而不見.
另外, 程式運行, 因投資頻率高, 投資量大, 再有加投資途徑複雜, 所謂誤差并不是不會出現.
作者: ChiChiPaPa 時間: 14-3-23 20:15
Stillgood2 發表於 14-3-23 20:04
個人有一個想法. 投行的人極之聰明. 特別係數學程式.
衍生工具的運用, 係有極之微細的誤差出現.
以一般情 ...
作者: Stillgood2 時間: 14-3-23 20:28
ChiChiPaPa 發表於 14-3-23 20:15
投行掙錢和有成功感，應是做deal maker。至於投資方程，不是一個人可完成，亦有風險管理部門和審計部門監控 ...
實際係唔係.
椐稱, 利森輸掉霸夌銀行時, 一. 可避過內部監察, 二. 投行內, 勝者為王. 當個別dealer表現出色, 話事能力都大得多.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 14-3-23 21:53
回覆 Stillgood2 的帖子
In order for what you said to be true, one has to operate under the assumption that risks can indeed be calculated. All these calculations and risk models give people a false sense of security. Reality is these models are all flawed in one way or another. Risks need to be "managed" but to believe that one can "calculate" risks and be protected is a flawed idea.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 14-3-23 21:57
回覆 Tommy 的帖子
We need to separate the social functions of ibanks with their culture. They do serve useful functions and some people deserve to be paid a lot for the value they generate. The culture is abhorrent though. Question is how can an institution serve the same functions without such a "greedy" culture?
作者: Fortress 時間: 14-3-24 01:09
和小兒談將來的職業, 只希望他盡力發揮自己, 為世界作貢獻。
不談賺錢, 輸錢, 呃人...
今見大部份精英中的精英也是投身iBank, 真的很想理解他們正在作什麼。
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-3-24 01:39
Fortress 發表於 14-3-24 01:09
和小兒談將來的職業, 只希望他盡力發揮自己, 為世界作貢獻。
不談賺錢, 輸錢, 呃人...
作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-24 09:26
shadeslayer 發表於 14-3-24 01:39
做下 intern 咪知。
最近請教過銀行家朋友，入外資銀行．投行是否神科有着數，他們異口同聲說No，他們笑說自己都不是。但他們說那間本港大學畢業就有分別，例如香港請MT，只請三大，成績要Top 2-1 及以上，其他大學原則上不考慮。大部份MT反而是海外畢業，當然是知名大學。
作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-24 09:31
Fortress 發表於 14-3-24 01:09
和小兒談將來的職業, 只希望他盡力發揮自己, 為世界作貢獻。
不談賺錢, 輸錢, 呃人...
自金融海潚之後，大部份尖子又轉回傳統專業，例如醫科，法律及會計，而非投行！
最近工程．電腦都翻生，收生成績及畢業後起薪點都上升緊。
作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-24 09:33
Stillgood2 發表於 14-3-23 20:28
理論上是.
實際係唔係.
作者: 小小山 時間: 14-3-24 09:48
回覆 awah112 的帖子
insider trading will be prosecuted.
作者: yiyiyima 時間: 14-3-24 13:24
回覆 ANChan59 的帖子
尤其你有內地高層人脈，你讀什麽大學專業，都不是特别重要了。
作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-24 13:27
yiyiyima 發表於 14-3-24 13:24
回覆 ANChan59 的帖子
尤其你有內地高層人脈，你讀什麽大學專業，都不是特别重要了。 ...
上海自由貿易區 ......
作者: MrBeast 時間: 14-3-24 13:35
本帖最後由 MrBeast 於 14-3-24 13:42 編輯
回覆 Fortress 的帖子
Ibank 也有不同部門and hence 不同的工種，但正如你所說，入面有不少精英，和一些叻人共事自然會學到野，不單是技術上，還有一些處理問題的方法。downside lei, 可能會long working hrs, underperform or when the biz is down 時要抄人會好現實.
Ps - high flyers can enjoy a fast track career path.
作者: honeybunny7 時間: 14-3-24 15:14
回覆 MrBeast 的帖子
Agreed. A career at iBanks, as well as in consulting, is definitely "up or out".
作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-24 15:21
回覆 honeybunny7 的帖子
Agree.
Consulting is another challenging and interesting industry for freshmen.
作者: honeybunny7 時間: 14-3-24 15:34
本帖最後由 honeybunny7 於 14-3-24 15:35 編輯
The title of this thread "讀神科,入iBank" is very interesting, in that there is something called "神科". What are they? Why are they "God-like" or "miraculous"?
It also reminds me of some of me and my friends' alumni interview experiences. In one particular case, after discussing with the applicant his desired career path, I asked him why he chose biochem over engineering, and he told me that in HK most people consider engineering majors those who could not get into competitive majors, and biochem major was considered as being more competitive. Regardless of whether or not his statement was factual, I was appalled at how he was so honest (maybe a bit too honest) in telling me that his choice was a result of what other HK people think, instead of a reflection of his personal interests. It was sad...
It is always true that when you are talking to someone who's truly passionate about his/her chosen path, the person would shine in your eyes, regardless of what path he/she chooses, and it then becomes so easy to write a stellar recommendation for that kid. On the other hand, it's so easy to spot those who are lost, because no matter how long the interview was, they could never sell you a solid story to tell the admission committee. Not to mention those Mainlanders who fake interest in Environmental Studies with the intention to switch to business school once accepted...
作者: talent2000 時間: 14-3-24 23:24
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作者: Fortress 時間: 14-3-25 00:17
ANChan59 發表於 14-3-24 09:31
十年河東，十年河西！
自金融海潚之後，大部份尖子又轉回傳統專業，例如醫科，法律及會計，而非投行！
最近 ...
作者: Fortress 時間: 14-3-25 00:20
honeybunny7 發表於 14-3-24 15:34
The title of this thread "讀神科,入iBank" is very interesting, in that there is something called "神 ...
作者: talent2000 時間: 14-3-25 00:25
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作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-25 00:48 標題: 引用：Quote:honeybunny7+發表於+14-3-24+15:34+T
原帖由 Fortress 於 14-03-25 發表
大部份人爭的學校叫神校，那大部份人爭大學課程，叫神科吧
http://www.edu-kingdom.com/home.php?mod=space&uid=107125&do=blog&id=18097
作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-25 01:00
Fortress 發表於 14-3-25 00:20
大部份人爭的學校叫神校，那大部份人爭大學課程，叫神科吧
http://www.edu-kingdom.com/home.php?mod=space&uid=107125&do=blog&id=18097
作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-25 07:50
talent2000 發表於 14-3-25 00:25
讀呢科，真係好睇背景，大學。不係個個可以係陳德霖....
作者: siubotze 時間: 14-3-25 22:41 標題: 回覆：讀神科,入iBank
It's an interesting topic. After working in I bank for more than 1x years, I think I am qualified to give my comments here. From an economic standpoint, I banker does not create value. The essence of the investment banking or trading is not creation of value, but transfer of wealth. The whole game is about transferring one's wealth to another, no matter it's from the rich to the poor, or the other way round. From the transfer, we made a huge chunk of money. Whether it's fair for someone has not created anything for the society to earn that big sum go money, that"s another story.
Back to your topic, if you want your son to join the I bank as front office banker,sales or trader, as his parents, please make sure you have a wide network and great financial support (for putting your kid into top schools e.g. Ivy League). 99% of the fresh grads we hired are from overseas top schools. For those study the so called 神科in hk, I m sorry, your chances are very slim even if you are graduated from the top 3 in hk. The fact is, they don't even know what are the universities in hk. Even when you get in to I bank as frontline these days, the compensation has been significantly reduced after 2008. The competition, on the other hand, is getting more and more intense. The return is not as great as before.
Having said that, there are still lots of opportunities in the back and middle office in an I bank that can offer your kid with decent career opportunity. The pay is generally higher than in other fields. However, you will be expected to work for 24 hours a dat, 7 days a week. People at I banks all think that they are smart. You can imagine how stressful it is when serving these so called smart folks.
In short, it depends on what kind of life you want your kid to have. I have to say even being in I bank, I will NOT want my girl to work in an I bank. Hope this can give you some perspectives.
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-3-25 23:02
I am of the opinion that many of the > $1.xM a year jobs in the commercial sector are equally demanding, high pressure round the clock, might as well get paid a bit more in ibanks or other higher pay industries.
作者: ha8mo 時間: 14-3-26 10:08
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作者: HKTHK 時間: 14-3-26 13:05
回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子
Senior management of MNCs are paid similar amounts as ibank MDs these days. But it takes 15-25 yrs to make senior management of a MNC but 9-12 yrs to make MD.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 14-3-26 13:06
回覆 siubotze 的帖子
I am not sure I know a single ibanker who would want their children to go back into the industry. And I know a lot of ibankers ...
作者: honeybunny7 時間: 14-3-26 14:26
Not to argue or anything, just to offer a different point of view on whether or not banking adds / creates value. I believe the answer is yes. Take IPO as an example. The banking functions involved in IPO include at least Corp Fin, ECM and Research. Through IPO a private company can raise significant amount of capital to invest in future projects / expansions that could be otherwise impossible to achieve with its own P/L and private funding. Hence the process of IPO contributes partly to the additional value created down the road by this company, and the banking functions that made this happen got a cut of the pie. However, how much do they deserve is debatable.
Other functions such as traders and derivatives sales all create value if you look at the fundamentals of what they do, but then nowadays people focus too much on only the few "bad crops" and use that impression to define the entire industry...
作者: honeybunny7 時間: 14-3-26 14:34
本帖最後由 honeybunny7 於 14-3-26 15:03 編輯
回覆 ha8mo 的帖子
Well many professions are stressful, particularly when you are just the junior of course you'd be so enslaved. Think auditing, medicine, consulting, civil engineering, I.T, law... all these professions have crazy hours. Well auditing is probably the worst because the base pay is so so so low in comparison to other jobs that require that amount of hours, and the work is so so so tedious and mundane as well.
I guess if a person does not truly love the work, then that person wouldn't see the value-add or purpose of his/her job, and everyday would feel like a challenge or even hell. Can any amount of monetary compensation make one go through 30+ years of sufferings (hating your job! seriously!)? I don't know...
作者: ANChan59 時間: 14-3-26 14:34 標題: 回覆：honeybunny7 的帖子
Fair comment.
作者: tcmsung 時間: 14-3-26 15:03
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作者: btrue 時間: 14-3-26 17:55
... the title got me thinking about how s'one with a divinity degree (perhaps graduate of Stephen SL Lam's program) would fare in an ibank, anyway ...
It's a pity that ibankers don't want their children in the industry. Is the grass always greener over the other side? I know a fair number of doctors; they generally don't want their children in their field either.
It's really hard for teenagers to know what they want to be for the rest of their lives. Sure there are career talks in high schools or company visits, but the subject matter of many of the professions nowadays (example, ibanking) is so specialized, and the environment is so complex, I really don't know if a teenager can be expected to understand enough to make a life decision. Isn't it to some degree a leap of faith?
Parents' preferences play a major role, through explicitly expressing their wishes, subtly cultivating their interest, helping them connect with aunties / uncles in the industry or otherwise creating exposure for them.
But, parents' advice is most accurate when the subject matter is their own profession. Beside technical knowledge, a kid needs to have the right soft skills, mentors to pass down the tricks of the trade (pardon my cliche), and connections as mentioned above to succeed beyond the first few years. Parents in the industry are in the best position to assess their kids' suitability, and kids have a natural advantage if they're suited to follow their parents' footsteps. Unless there is good reason, why throw it away?
作者: MrBeast 時間: 14-3-26 18:29
tcmsung 發表於 14-3-26 15:03
Well said. Better to advise your child to choose a career with high interest than with high yiel ...
作者: tcmsung 時間: 14-3-26 19:17
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作者: hkparent 時間: 14-3-26 20:29 標題: 引用：回覆+MrBeast+的帖子
情況是這樣的，人們
原帖由 tcmsung 於 14-03-26 發表
回覆 MrBeast 的帖子
作者: siubotze 時間: 14-3-26 22:38 標題: 回覆：honeybunny7 的帖子
That's perhaps why we seldom see any bankers work for 30+ years. By late 40s, you are either forced to retire, got sick of the whole game and retire or change to a totally different professions. Yet I have to admit if I have to work like a dog but earning less, I would rather suffer from great deal of stress and earn more.
作者: honeybunny7 時間: 14-3-27 11:19
回覆 MrBeast 的帖子
I am fortunate enough to have "brushed shoulders" with banking and immediately "saved" myself and switched to a job that I truly enjoy doing (for the moment). And I have been fortunate enough to have met many other people who also love what they do, and many of them were my mentors. In fact, these people are so passionate about their work that when they talk about it, you can see the sparkles in their eyes, and you almost feel compelled to learn more about or even try out their jobs because they are so passionate that it's infectious.
In contrast, you look at those government officials on TV, and what do you see? They all seemed annoyed, uncomfortable, discouraged, or even defeated.
You are right in saying that there are many people who don't enjoy their work, or even dislike or hate their work. But I believe some of them endure such "suffering" by choice, instead of due to limiting circumstances such as the financial burden of sick family members. Therefore, as parents, would you wish that upon your child? Or would you rather encourage your child to follow his/her dream, and to pursue his/her own happiness?
作者: tcmsung 時間: 14-3-27 11:34
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作者: honeybunny7 時間: 14-3-27 11:40
本帖最後由 honeybunny7 於 14-3-27 11:53 編輯
回覆 MrBeast 的帖子
And also, not saying that it's impossible, it is indeed very hard to "accumulate wealth and then switch to something more interesting". I would not give this piece of advice to my kids because it's most likely a lie.
Say banking, your total comp during the first few years, however unbelievable for a person of this young age, wouldn't be enough for you to accumulate "wealth". You would have to work till you are at least 30 then you'd start seeing "wealth" in your bank account or at least 2 real estate holdings (if you're really good). But by then you'd be so specialized that it's really hard to switch to anything interesting if you're talking about marketing, fashion, etc., unless you are willing to start from zero again. At the most, if you're in Research or Corp Fin you can switch to do Business Development, CFO, buy side. I don't know if there's a natural switch for Equity and Derivs Sales. For trading you may just retire and day trade for fun, or set up your own shop.
Say law, I don't know much about this career path but I suppose you only make big bucks when you have made a name for yourself, and that would be when you're in your 40s/50s (correct me if I'm wrong)? If that's the case, then yea...
While it is absolutely possible to switch your career after banking and law, but then the choices would be much much limited if your pre-requisite for switching is to have accumulated "wealth". What could happen is you work a few years in these high-stress professions and do exceptionally well and also save all money, so you can accumulate enough seed money (not wealth) to then start your own business.
作者: MrBeast 時間: 14-3-27 12:15
回覆 honeybunny7 的帖子
I envy u and i agree w u actually. if u dont have dreams, u might as well be dead, right
Whatever my kid wants to do, i will be supportive. But obviously after i have talked w them to make sure they understand what they r getting themselves into and most importantly, if they would make enough to buy me a Ferrari :).
作者: ha8mo 時間: 14-4-2 22:28
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作者: ACE2126 時間: 14-4-3 00:50
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