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標題: Is Phonics really useful to HK kids? [打印本頁]

作者: sweet_heart2011 時間: 13-11-29 17:28 標題: Is Phonics really useful to HK kids?

Is Phonics really useful for kids learning English as a second language in a non-native environment?  (i.e. classmates all local, parents local, relatives local)  I see a lot of Phonics classes in HK and it seems everyone is talking Phonics.

Phonics allow one to read an English word with approximately correct pronunication, but it won't make one understand the meaning of the words and won't make one able to speak fluently or make one able to listen to what native (with different accents) speakers say.  English is such a irregular language with so so many exception in pronunciation that no rules can be applied consistently.

I think Phonics is more helpful to people in an native English environment because they already speak / listen to the language from parents, teachers, TV and friends but they may not know the words yet.  By learning Phonics they can link the words to meaning and learn the spelling too.

Just sharing my views on Phonics...

作者: MrBeast 時間: 13-11-29 18:08

I had the same question as u b4.

The pre-req then is to build up enough vocabs b4 starting phonics

作者: bbmom72 時間: 13-11-29 18:26 標題: 回覆：Is Phonics really useful to HK kids

朋友個囝讀緊小一，要作英文壓韻詩，唔識phonics 好難作到。

作者: siukeung37 時間: 13-11-29 18:47 標題: 回覆：Is Phonics really useful to HK kids?

如果識phonics就識作詩，咁phonics就真係有啲用

作者: zoe@3510 時間: 13-11-29 19:03

背生字有用, 因為你聽到個發音, 已大至識串, 死記好易忘掉。

作者: picture 時間: 13-11-29 19:11 標題: 引用：I+had+the+same+question+as+u+b4.++The+pr

原帖由 MrBeast 於 13-11-29 發表
I had the same question as u b4.

The pre-req then is to build up enough vocabs b4 starting phonic ...

Agree

Large vocabulary base and being conversant in English is p're-requisite to making use if phonics.

Useless to those who can even speak or understand.

I wouldn't pay large amount of money for phonics.

作者: 藍藍媽 時間: 13-11-29 19:18 標題: 引用：背生字有用,+因為你聽到個發音,+已大至識串

原帖由 zoe@3510 於 13-11-29 發表
背生字有用, 因為你聽到個發音, 已大至識串, 死記好易忘掉。

作為一個响香港讀中文小學、英文中學的“知識分子”…… 我覺得phonics 應該有用…… 我地細個讀英文，要默書考試，見到d英文字要背時都係老作個音俾佢…… 作得多都大概知個pattern , 但過程好痛苦，既然有d方法去學，一定好過自己慢慢摸索…… 這是我個人意見

作者: picture 時間: 13-11-29 19:18 標題: 引用：朋友個囝讀緊小一，要作英文壓韻詩，唔識ph

原帖由 bbmom72 於 13-11-29 發表
朋友個囝讀緊小一，要作英文壓韻詩，唔識phonics 好難作到。

鬼佬 or native speakers never really had to learn phonics but they can make rhymes too.

Phonics is only a set of general rules to help you spell words and read.

Same way like putonghua pinyin . Not all PTH speakers know the proper pinyin but they can read write and comminucaye well.

作者: peddypeddy 時間: 13-11-29 19:41 標題: 回覆：藍藍媽的帖子

同意
我仲記得細個串字將d字斬開幾舊用d讀音去記點串，諗番都幾搞笑

作者: picture 時間: 13-11-29 20:04 標題: 引用：同意我仲記得細個串字將d字斬開幾舊用d讀

原帖由 peddypeddy 於 13-11-29 發表
同意
我仲記得細個串字將d字斬開幾舊用d讀音去記點串，諗番都幾搞笑

Well you learned phonics and blending on your own

作者: MrBeast 時間: 13-11-29 20:06

本帖最後由 MrBeast 於 13-11-29 20:07 編輯

picture 發表於 13-11-29 19:18
鬼佬 or native speakers never really had to learn phonics but they can make rhymes too.

I asked my 鬼佬 fd abt phonics a few years ago and he replied, "whats that". But as a second language for my kid, i realised its v useful to learn to survive the local primary school curriculum. nowadays, think schools in england also use phonics to teach their kids.

作者: TeriAnla 時間: 13-11-29 21:48 標題: 回覆：Is Phonics really useful to HK kids

Phonics主要學嚟應付本地幼稚園和小學。一日到黑都默書，點記禁多字。係香港讀書一路都係求學只是求分數。

作者: sbux 時間: 13-11-29 21:59 標題: 引用：同意我仲記得細個串字將d字斬開幾舊用d讀

原帖由 peddypeddy 於 13-11-29 發表
同意
我仲記得細個串字將d字斬開幾舊用d讀音去記點串，諗番都幾搞笑

tion 我標「唇」

作者: 藍藍媽 時間: 13-11-29 22:10 標題: 引用：同意我仲記得細個串字將d字斬開幾舊用d讀

原帖由 peddypeddy 於 13-11-29 發表
同意
我仲記得細個串字將d字斬開幾舊用d讀音去記點串，諗番都幾搞笑

但最搞笑係個個同學作既音都唔同……哈哈

作者: corachanyy 時間: 13-11-29 23:24 標題: 回覆：Is Phonics really useful to HK kids?

如果我讀書時有機會讀風力士，而家D英文應該會好D…

作者: angie0828 時間: 13-11-29 23:30 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+peddypeddy+於+13-11-29+發表

原帖由 sbux 於 13-11-29 發表
tion 我標「唇」

Same here 分唇

作者: alicekeith 時間: 13-11-29 23:34 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+sbux+於+13-11-29+發表tion+

原帖由 angie0828 於 13-11-29 發表
Same here 分唇

細過連中文字都未識寫時，會畫圖畫：唇

作者: Annbaat 時間: 13-11-29 23:36 標題: 回覆：Is Phonics really useful to HK kids

我讀小學英文最差，經常將if讀成with，中三暑假自己報讀phonics班，英文發音雖未講到外國人，但真係有改善，而且phonics都有助記生字。

作者: sbux 時間: 13-11-29 23:39 標題: 回覆：Is Phonics really useful to HK kids

就係因為唔識拼音，我自細越短嘅字就越易讀錯，因為無得用拆，例如Soup, Saop 好難用中文拆記，所以讀到一舊舊。如果識Phonics應該會好D

作者: sbux 時間: 13-11-29 23:40 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+angie0828+於+13-11-29+發表S

原帖由 alicekeith 於 13-11-29 發表
細過連中文字都未識寫時，會畫圖畫：唇

有呀有呀，本英文書真係有血有水汗嫁

作者: kbi 時間: 13-11-29 23:43 標題: 回覆：Is Phonics really useful to HK kids?

同一道理，廣東話都有拼音，仲有9個音調，我相信大部分操流利廣東話既人都無學過。相反唔識廣東話既人，由拼音入手，會比較容易去學習不同字之發音，雖然對理解同造句無幫助，但始終一個有系統既學習方法，會令學習少左一個障礙，所以外國人覺得學普通話易過廣東話，因為有拼音起碼識讀，然後再去理解。亞囡學校有教phonics ，我覺得好有用，只要一幅圖加上英文字，讀多兩次，佢會記到d音節，以後見到實物都可以講返出黎，學vocabulary快好多。有時教佢發音都易d，例如very，佢讀fery，我會話係 v for Vicky violet' . 佢會即刻讀返啱，學英文變得易左，小朋友更有興趣學。

作者: chumiguan 時間: 13-11-29 23:50 標題: 回覆：Is Phonics really useful to HK kids?

我小學2-3年班時我媽咪用本dictionary 開頭幾頁有教vowels and pronunciation 啲symbols 教我拼音。媽咪睇dictionary 又係公公教佢。我覺得拼音(即依家嘅phonics)超好用, 見到個字，大約知道點讀(中80-90%)。Dictation 時唔記得個字點串, 可拼返出黎。小學時學英文vocabulary 用本書係叫word perfect. 每頁超多英文深字，每次20左右, 但每頁都係同一類讀音。咁浸咗幾年就一路死記啲字點解, 但亦學識phonics. 上到中學就自己𢴇grammar, 唔使再煩死記vocab. 所以，自本身experience, 學phonics for kids learning Eng as 2nd language is very useful. But then, 太細學phonics會唔知點用。Hence, 我會等我個女vocab build 到咁上下，再教佢phonics. 到時教小小佢已會好容易pick up點用. 跟本唔使用PN/Kindies 浪費時間及金錢去學。

作者: candicemammy 時間: 13-11-30 00:58 標題: 引用：我小學2-3年班時我媽咪用本dictionary+開頭

原帖由 chumiguan 於 13-11-29 發表
我小學2-3年班時我媽咪用本dictionary 開頭幾頁有教vowels and pronunciation 啲symbols 教我拼音。媽咪睇d ...

我都係 word perfect 呀！！其實大家細個本英文書係有 phonics 的，同 dictionaries 既國際音標唔同。我媽咪有教音標等我自己查字典，但學校ㄉ老師都有教拆字。

作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-11-30 04:14

回覆 sweet_heart2011 的帖子

To turn the question around, why would you not learn phonics?

作者: bbmom72 時間: 13-11-30 08:41 標題: 引用：同一道理，廣東話都有拼音，仲有9個音調，

原帖由 kbi 於 13-11-29 發表
同一道理，廣東話都有拼音，仲有9個音調，我相信大部分操流利廣東話既人都無學過。相反唔識廣東話既人，由 ...

Agreed

作者: lui 時間: 13-11-30 08:59 標題: 引用：我小學2-3年班時我媽咪用本dictionary+開頭

原帖由 chumiguan 於 13-11-29 發表
我小學2-3年班時我媽咪用本dictionary 開頭幾頁有教vowels and pronunciation 啲symbols 教我拼音。媽咪睇d ...

我都有用word perfect. 我認為坊間有很多不負責任的phonics學校，只重併讀，好的literacy program,應該同時增建vocabulary,加入extension ,咁樣先學得好。

作者: hosinai2012 時間: 13-11-30 09:26

其實我們細個都係大致知道個併音, 然後加上大量讀和講, 自自然識得讀字拆字, 淨係靠Phonics無閱讀的話無用

作者: Chocolatefree 時間: 13-11-30 09:40 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+bbmom72+於+13-11-29+發表朋

原帖由 picture 於 13-11-29 發表
鬼佬 or native speakers never really had to learn phonics but they can make rhymes too.

Agree!

作者: sweet_heart2011 時間: 13-11-30 09:53

回覆 HKTHK 的帖子

For me, I was not that lucky in my childhood.  Apart from what I was taught in schools, I didnt have any chance/money to learn any additional stuff, except a few revision courses for HKCEE/HKALE.
For my kids, if their pre-schools teach them Phonics, I cant help but I wouldnt spend extra efforts on it to train them on Phonics in their early ages.  I will read with them, read to them and talk to them normally.  While reading together, I will show them how to pronounce each word.  I wont care too much on spelling at this stage (their test scores may suffer).  To me, reading is a skills by recognizing words, phrases, sentence structures and at the end the meaning of the texts.  Visually and mentally breaking down words into syllables will affect their reading capability.  And also, I dont think English is a language that anyone can read correctly the first time they come across a new word because there are so so many exceptions (let alone all those borrowed words).  I dont have many examples on top of my head now. But look at, "good"' "food", and "blood", "glue", "blue" and "clue".  See the difference in "blood"?  If someone knows "food" and "good" and they first come across "blood", without applying any exceptional rules, they would have pronounced "blood" wrongly.  And exception means you have to remember one by one.  :)

Phonics should be learnt alongside the language, not ahead of it.

Of course, in my experience, I have noticed people who are naturally very good in spelling (like myself, heehee) and some who aren't that good.  So I will observe how my kids develop.  Phonics or any other tools to assist language learning may be used at a later stage in their education.  因材施教也！

作者: nasu 時間: 13-11-30 10:40 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+bbmom72+於+13-11-29+發表朋

原帖由 picture 於 13-11-29 發表
鬼佬 or native speakers never really had to learn phonics but they can make rhymes too.

我不認同。

英國小孩一開始是學ABC發音，不是讀音。而且phonics是外國知識不是中國產品，例如jolly phonics, letterland

所以不只是我們second language人學。不過外國人英文是mother language, 我們是second language, 學的方便及次序一定有分別。

外國人學國語都是學聲母韻母先啦，同一道理。

不是外國的月亮特別圓，是不同情況用不同角度及方法學習及欣賞。

作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-11-30 12:18

回覆 sweet_heart2011 的帖子

There is no right answer on this question and there is a whole host of articles/research discussing whole language vs phonics approaches in teaching English. Phonics is helpful in allowing kids to sound out words though and UK and most schools in HK have adopted it.

作者: picture 時間: 13-11-30 12:21 標題: 引用：其實我們細個都係大致知道個併音,+然後加上

原帖由 hosinai2012 於 13-11-30 發表
其實我們細個都係大致知道個併音, 然後加上大量讀和講, 自自然識得讀字拆字, 淨係靠Phonics無閱讀的話無用 ...

Absolutely

People nowadays are over-exaggerating the importance of Phonics.

作者: picture 時間: 13-11-30 12:26 標題: 引用：我小學2-3年班時我媽咪用本dictionary+開頭

原帖由 chumiguan 於 13-11-29 發表
我小學2-3年班時我媽咪用本dictionary 開頭幾頁有教vowels and pronunciation 啲symbols 教我拼音。媽咪睇d ...

What you talk out her is IPA.... Internatiinally standardised phonetics.

Yes I wasn't taught phonics as a separate subject in primary school either but our teachers did teach us how to chop long words up into several syllables and try to.pronounce them.

Phonics is.useful only to a certain extent. There are so many exceptions to phonics rules that the benefit does not extent beyond early.primary school years.

作者: picture 時間: 13-11-30 12:29 標題: 引用：我小學2-3年班時我媽咪用本dictionary+開頭

原帖由 chumiguan 於 13-11-29 發表
我小學2-3年班時我媽咪用本dictionary 開頭幾頁有教vowels and pronunciation 啲symbols 教我拼音。媽咪睇d ...

Agree

作者: picture 時間: 13-11-30 12:34 標題: 引用：回覆+sweet_heart2011+的帖子 To+turn+the

原帖由 HKTHK 於 13-11-30 發表
回覆 sweet_heart2011 的帖子

To turn the question around, why would you not learn phonics?

My stand on this question is
.
.
.
.

Phonics is useful and helpful but only to a certain extent

.
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Phonics doesn't benefit a kid much if he/she does not have a habit of reading books nor does not already speak the language
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It is nice to have but without formal training of which, one can still be able to pick up the phonics rules as one reads (with parents or teachers)

作者: chumiguan 時間: 13-11-30 15:45 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+HKTHK+於+13-11-30+發表回覆+

原帖由 picture 於 13-11-30 發表
My stand on this question is
.
.

Yes, exactly! Phonics is only a nice to have item. Should not be a core for English learning.

作者: longlokma 時間: 13-11-30 16:22 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+picture+於+13-11-30+發表My+

原帖由 chumiguan 於 13-11-30 發表
Yes, exactly! Phonics is only a nice to have item. Should not be a core for English learning.

我認為無需要学，只要平日多聽多讀多看，讀音正確便自然懂得拼串出英文字词

作者: cowmoon 時間: 13-12-2 10:13

Based on my understanding, phonics was invented not very long ago (maybe tens of years) to help kids to master the pronunciation and spelling in an easier way. It is one of educational methods that were invented to help teaching and learning for the broader mass. Hence, there may be native english speaking adults who did not learn phonics during their school years. It does not mean that Phonics is not used by native english students nowadays.

I got in touch with Phonics due to my daughter but I found it very useful even for myself. I did not spend any money on Phonics class, just bought some workbooks to understand the rules.

作者: suki12 時間: 13-12-2 13:34

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