教育王國
標題: One strategic step closer to HKIS, CIS, AISHK, CDNIS & ICS [打印本頁]
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-23 03:38 標題: One strategic step closer to HKIS, CIS, AISHK, CDNIS & ICS
I'm planning to apply the above schools for my currently 2 years old son who will be attending K1 equivalent this coming August. He has several options, but mainly i'm struggling between:
1. The Montessori system [DMS Discovery Bay]
2. The ESF system [ESF Tsing Yi]
I wonder which school can better prepare him for the reception application / interview (both in terms of the schools' reputation and the actually learning)? Any comment or suggestion is deeply appreciated. Thank you in advance!
作者: hkparent 時間: 13-2-23 07:45 標題: 回覆：jolalee 的帖子
ESF. You should also submit applications to the named schools immediately. 2 years old is already a bit late for some schools.
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-23 09:01
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 13-2-23 09:02 編輯
hkparent 發表於 13-2-23 07:45 
ESF. You should also submit applications to the named schools immediately. 2 years old is already a ...
Thank you, hkparent. Would explain in which ways ESF is a better option than Montessori? Is it the reputation or education? Would ESF Tsing Yi be penalized over other ESF kindies?
Instead of "I'm planning to apply" I should have put "I'm planning to and have applied for the schools listed above". I've submitted for AISHK. HKIS/CIS/ICS will accept my submissions only starting this August, and I've applied for pre-reception for CDNIS this year (but given my son came out with a train which the teacher was desperately looking for, I think he failed, so i'm preparing to apply for reception this coming Autumn). Thank you for your reminder though! :)
作者: hkparent 時間: 13-2-23 09:22 標題: 回覆：jolalee 的帖子
ESF has better reputation for academic results in the secondary schools. If you can choose, ESF kindergartens on Hk island may stand a higher chance of gaining admission to ESF primary schools.
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-23 10:19
...but ESF primary schools are not on my target list here... if it is, i'd definitely go for any ESF kindie for having the final year of P1 interview priority. ESF does have better reputation for academic results for their secondary schools, but from what i heard the top IB score students are usually smart kids transferred over from other IS or LS. [parents please correct me with figures if what i heard is wrong]...
From what i learned, PYP and MYP are a bit shaky and depends on the teacher a lot. Personally i'd prefer any of the schools for primary year listed above instead.
Anyhow, back on the topic. Would an ESF kindie education or Montessori kindie education help better prepare a child for a top through-train IS interview? and which school type have a better reputation amongst the schools i listed on the topic? Much appreciated if there are feedback from parents who know kids or have their own in any of the above schools. thx!
作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-23 12:39 標題: 回覆：jolalee 的帖子
CDNIS, AISHK get higher priority to passport holders. AISHK need to apply immediately after birth. CDNIS need to get in pre-reception or reception years otherwise it is difficult to get in afterward. Also, pre-reception interview require kids can do separation and can follow English order and express in simple English.
For CIS, connections and siblings are very important. they need to maintain a perfect mix of nationality, mother tongue and genders that locals have lower priority if both parents are not native English or mandarin speakers.
for HKIS, connection and those with foreign passport definitely have the advantage.
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-23 13:58
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 13-2-23 14:13 編輯
回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子
Thank you Shrimpiggy for your detailed analysis of each school, especially HKIS & CIS, which I know less about. Do you know what their interviews are like and what they're looking for in a child? (or is it purely on connections & backgrounds?)
We do fit the bill for most schools I'm applying for, but I'm wondering which school I should choose for my son next year, ESF or Montessori, based on my target schools....
I know ESF is a great system to fall back on (many of my friends regret not applying for ESF in the first place), but they are enquiry/play based, so he might fall behind for the more academic IS interviews. Personally I love Montessori but would those IS view it as fringe or unconventional education and take impression points off from him? (or that he'd not fit into mainstream IS interview settings). I'm quite confused as for which one to choose for next year and possibly for his entire Kindie education....
作者: lui 時間: 13-2-23 15:19 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+jolalee+於+13-2-23+09:02+編
原帖由 jolalee 於 13-02-23 發表
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 13-2-23 09:02 編輯
作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-23 15:54 標題: 回覆：lui 的帖子
During a parents introduction session in CIS last year, they asked two kids to tell us about the school life. The boy was transferred from a reputable LS after primary school.
What I notice is that most of IS do not push kids in the primary school but the kids are more self initiative in their teenage.
The assessment procedure of CIS and CDNIS have been changed since this year. It is mandatory to attend the parents introduction session and an essay need to be submitted regarding to the kids development and ability.
An additional Assessment fee is imposed to those applying CDNIS after Aug 2012.
For CDNIS, as they have pre-reception class, the test is more on separation and manners.
HKIS tests the kids English level in a play group with 12 kids playing puzzles, drawing and active storytelling.
Last but not lest, it is better you need to pick one or two schools to set the goal as the schools you mentioned are quite different in many aspects.
作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-23 16:09 標題: 回覆：Shrimpiggy 的帖子
Sorry to make it complicated.
But in short, most IS do not test academic, it is not much different for ESF and IMS.
My personal suggestion is to head for ESF though there will be no definite advantage for ESF primaries next year as a back up, but untold advantage can still be expected.
作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-23 16:49 標題: 回覆：jolalee 的帖子
one last thing, if you kid was born in 2010, CDNIS, HKIS, should have applied of which CDNIS should have interviewed last month or this. HKIS should be next week.
AISHK can apply anytime.
作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-23 16:52 標題: 回覆：Shrimpiggy 的帖子
sorry hkis next year.
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-23 18:22
lui 發表於 13-2-23 15:19
Your quote of ESF that many high IB scores winners coming from other IS and LS applies to CIS as wel ...
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-23 19:32
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 13-2-23 19:37 編輯
Thanks Shrimpiggy for all your info. We've applied / will apply to each school according to their set application schedule. I don't think my son did that well on his CDNIS interview last month, so we'll try again next year. Parents can apply for AISHK 2 years prior to their admission age, starting from January each year. Since they're on the Auzzie calendar, it's best to check the individual child's class age on their website or just call them to confirm, which was what we did. (in case anyone else reading this would like to apply for AISHK).
You're right that there are two distinctive types of schools here: HKIS & CIS are mainly academic and they are my husband's top choice. CDNIS, AISHK & ICS are more well rounded and those are my target schools. Actually, I do think my boy is more like his dad and will do better at his choice of schools, but I really want to round up his characters more. Anyhow in HK it's not up to the parents so I'll take whichever he can get into ;)
Did your kids apply to any of the schools above beside ESF?
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-2-23 22:54
回復 jolalee 的帖子
I think if you aim at top overseas university, you should aim at LS. Get a top results and aim at a reputable overseas high school at 14 or 15. At the end they look for good exam results. None of the IS (even HKIS or CIS) get you there as good as the top LS, if you have no connection.
I know 2 friends with kids at CIS secondary, and neither consider the top overseas universities as realistic choices, these are mostly reserved for those with good connection and those transferred from LS, and very few home breed 路人甲families.
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-2-23 22:57
回復 jolalee 的帖子
CIS is "not" known for academic, and the atmosphere is play play play, and freedom freedom freedom. Your kid need extremely good self initiative or you need to push so hard.
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-2-23 23:40 標題: 引用：回復+jolalee+的帖子
I+think+if+you+aim+
原帖由 21Ckid 於 13-02-23 發表
回復 jolalee 的帖子
I think if you aim at top overseas university, you should aim at LS. Get a top ...
Xxxxxxx
Getting into good university is important but should it be the overriding criterion on choosing schools for our kids? School life in an elite LS is very different from any of the IS. That is assuming the child is among the 2% of the applicants who get a place in an elite LS.
作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-24 01:18 標題: 回覆：shadeslayer 的帖子
agree, nectar to one, poison to others.
U can check the websites of IS university placement.
U get into the best school but ur kid can be the worst one that is no different to those in band 3/5 schools.
Good schools are not magic box to turn a dumb to a gifted. Many factors .....
...matter...
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-24 02:18
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 13-2-24 07:07 編輯
I agree to shadelayer here and that's why I'm picking IS over LS all the way through. I've done primary schools in both Hong Kong and overseas, so I've seen the pros and cons from both sides personally.
Anyhow we're going off topic here again, maybe it's my fault in choosing a wrong title. Between ESF & Montessori schools, which one should I put my child in if my aim is the listed schools on the title?
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-2-25 00:05
If you need to ask about IB scores, you care about academics and good university placement and i am afraid, with child of same intelligence, the best is still to go the LS > elite LS > overseas high school route. A handful wiill though transfer to GSIS first (esp DGS girls). We have to accept that most children need to be pushed and LS still chunks out better exam scores. I have friends in both top LS and IS secondary and the above is really a consensus in that circle. Sometimes, I couldn't understand why some bloggers here always insist the oppposite.
I am a fan of IS but i won't try to mislead here. Still i will put my kid in IS as i want him to have a happier childhood. Still, that effectively strips him the chance to become a doctor, and a lower chance to get into top universities. For me, that's okay, life is much more and much longer than that. But fact is fact. I would not say every single bit about IS is better than LS.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 13-2-25 03:33
I wouldn't say putting a kid in IS would effectively strip him the chance of getting into top universities. I feel that it very much depends on the individual child and the support given to him by his family. For example, looking at the records below, I can't say that CIS students' record of getting into top universities is any worse off than that of DGS or SPC.
http://www.cis.edu.hk/programme/university-counselling/index.aspx
http://www.dgs.edu.hk/index.php/ ... larships-and-awards
http://www.spcc.edu.hk/english/academic/university_offers
The record of GSIS is similar in that out of a total of around 50 students, 6 went to Oxbridge and 3 went to Ivy league in 2011/2012.
As regard to the records of IS getting into good overseas high school, I heard that Westminster School has accepted a number of GSIS students into its Sixth Form this coming year alone. So I wouldn't say IS records are really that bad either in this regard.
At the end of the day, if you want to do well, you have to work hard. If you want to do exceedingly well, you have to work extremely hard. There is no shortcut or exception. IS in the senior years is every bit as competitive as LS. Having the "connection" or "money" alone doesn't necessarily guarantee you a place in the top universities as demonstrated in this recent case (http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/art/20121010/18036820)
Of course, it would be different if your dad were Li Ka Shing. But then if your dad were Li Ka Shing, why bother going to a unversity and getting a degree (as Richard Li shows you it really isn't necessary)?
作者: md23 時間: 13-2-25 08:35
jolalee 發表於 13-2-24 02:18
I agree to shadelayer here and that's why I'm picking IS over LS all the way through. I've done prim ...
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-25 14:04
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 13-2-25 14:12 編輯
md23 發表於 13-2-25 08:35
Montessori school without a doubt.
Let me play devil's advocate here (since I lean towards Montessori myself):
- Montessori is great academically, but lacks in-class group interaction compared with other Int'l Kindies.
- In the early education circle, I wonder how Montessori is viewed? I know at least one teacher who does not like the Montessori system, and another story where a child was penalized for reading out the letter sound instead of the letter name upon the teacher testing the child on the alphabets during an interview at a school I listed.[fyi Montessori teaches the letter sound instead of the letter names to help the children learn to read faster] I think Montessori kids are viewed as too individualistic?
- The Montessori school my son attends does not have primary affliation. The only one that has (IMS) is impossible to get into and I think my son failed the application this year. So what are my options when P1 application comes along?
- The ESF 2013-14 K1 class, on the other hand, still has ESF P1 interview priority, so it is at the moment still a great system to fall back on, in case the target schools listed above do not accept him.
May I know why you'd pick Montessori? And what are your kids' education paths?
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-2-25 14:25
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
It is a known fact that CIS and GSIS recruited a lot of top grade LS students. It is still better to start at LS, if academic is what u look for. I know girl started at st Stephen girls at early secondary, then to DGS then to GSIS then to a top overseas high school!!
I know people at CIS and most good university placements go to alumni, sponsors and top students from LS. For home breed middle class families, it is not as good as it seems .Still, I believe in pedigree and CIS is certainly still my top target.
Your example is not correct, that's why I am always sceptical of media. The market price for sponsoring one student is US$5 million, not 2.2 million for two. I think they know the price but want to go to "back door" way . Or perhaps their background is not good enough.
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-25 14:40
21Ckid 發表於 13-2-25 00:05
If you need to ask about IB scores, you care about academics and good university placement and i am ...
作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-25 14:57 標題: 回覆：21Ckid 的帖子
in fact, there are many top students go to famous boarding schools in UK such ad Westminster thus they need to solicit LS top student to join.
bear in mind that those top boarding schools in UK have more than 50% graduates manage to get into oxbridge
作者: Shootastar 時間: 13-2-25 15:28
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
"At the end of the day, if you want to do well, you have to work hard. If you want to do exceedingly well, you have to work extremely hard. There is no shortcut or exception"
There is nothing but truth in your statement, Thanks for giving us the timely reminder.
作者: md23 時間: 13-2-25 16:43
jolalee 發表於 13-2-25 14:04
Let me play devil's advocate here (since I lean towards Montessori myself):
- Montessori is great a ...
ESF (both in kindergarten and elementary school), in my opinion, simply does not challenge kids enough. Personally, I would not want to sacrifice a few years of education, i.e., in a ESF kindergarten, in order to guarantee a place in a mediocre school in the future.
For Montessori schools, I have heard nothing but praise from my friends about them. Their kids all turn out fine, most went to ivy or equivalent schools in the US (Harvard, Northwestern, Chicago, Duke, etc). Maybe they are the exceptions but given the similarity of our backgrounds, I value their opinions a lot. As for my own kids, unfortunately there are no Montessori schools nearby and I would not put my kids in a school bus for two hours a day so that option is not available to me.
I'm pretty surprised many parents are willing to send their children to boarding schools overseas. Is family time or bonding not valued? At least as high as the academic success of the children?
Lastly, between local schools and international schools, choose international schools. I have enough experience teaching graduates from both schools to know that I do not want my kids to study in a local school, no matter what academic advantage they have.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 13-2-25 17:04
"....the record still does not reflect if the kids studies in the respective schools all the way through or has be transferred from other IS or LS..."
But then which school has no students coming in? Another point is that we can't just assume that the top students in IS are not those who study all the way through or that they are necessarily those who come from other IS or LS, can we? I don't want to name names, but I know as a fact that there are many new students who need to take extra English class in order to catch up when they first join. I don't want to argue, but I don't think it's right to give a blanket statement saying that putting a kid in IS would effectively strip him the chance of getting into top universities. If it were the case, why would the LS kids wish to change to IS (and a lot of them are the top students in their own schools)? Do they deliberately want to avoid getting into top universities? I also don't think it's correct to say that all those who get into top universities are necessarily or mostly because of their own "connections". If it were the case, how about the LS students (eg. those coming from SPC etc.)? Do they need "connection" as well to get into top universities? Or LS students need no "connection" because they are "special" in some way. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying or implying in any way IS is better than LS. I just want to point out that you have students from both IS and LS getting into top universities every year and a lot of them don't rely on "connections".
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 13-2-25 17:20
".......The market price for sponsoring one student is US$5 million, not 2.2 million for two....."
If US$5M can guarantee you a place in those top universities, then I guess they are going to be filled with students from China in no time.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-2-25 17:23
回復 md23 的帖子
Boarding school may not be for everyone but those who have gone through it tend to be more independent and mature.
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-2-25 17:31
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
No. They vet the background as well. So even if I have that money , i would not help. There is no guarantee nor is it a published price. It is a ball park no that those in that circle knows. Of course ,if you are those mr li(s) they expect more. ( I heard it from my friends with kid in CIS and some top US high schools).
The top US universities will be swamped with mainland ( and Indian and Korean) students because their SAT scores are very very high.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 13-2-25 17:39
回復 21Ckid 的帖子
So it means that in order to get into a top university:-
(1) if you are from IS, you need "connection" and "background".
(2) if you are from LS, you only need good academic results.
Is that right?
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-2-25 17:42
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
I always refrain from using the word "all" as we don't live in a all or nothing world. If you know friends whose kids are in CIS secondary planning for tertiary, you know what I am talking about.
Top IS is a good stepping stone, as my st Stephen / DGS/ GSIS girl example above. Also, many top SPCC students leave for top high schools at 13-15.
As I said, I like IS but we cannot insist it is good at everything. When you got something,it is more often than not that there is a price to be paid.
作者: Shootastar 時間: 13-2-25 17:43
My two kids are from IS. I have no connection or background.
However, they managed to obtain offers from top colleges in the UK and USA.
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-2-25 17:46
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
No. If you have money and good background, you can get into top university whichever high school you attended. Or, for most if not all parents here, you need top academic results. On this, LS does it better as they pushed the kids , that some may become book worms or unhappy is another question.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 13-2-25 17:51
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 13-2-25 18:05 編輯
"........in fact, there are many top students go to famous boarding schools in UK such ad Westminster thus they need to solicit LS top student to join...".
Westminster School's website says they usually have about 400 applicants and they offer between 65 and 75 places. I am not sure if they need to solicit any students to join (be they students of LS or IS).
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 13-2-25 18:04
回復 21Ckid 的帖子
Nobody said IS is good at everything. I only want to say I disagree with you when you said that putting a kid into IS would effectively strips him the chance to become a doctor, and a lower chance to get into top universities,
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-2-25 18:07
Also CIS has quite a number of parents who are alumni of those top universities. If they make regular donations ( which many will) it is easier for them to get in.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 13-2-25 18:47
21Ckid 發表於 13-2-25 18:07
Also CIS has quite a number of parents who are alumni of those top universities. If they make regula ...
I would not be surprised if parents of elite LS are alumni of top overseas universities and they make regular dontations to these universities.
作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-25 19:27 標題: 回覆：poonseelai 的帖子
Haha...it is the same everywhere!
Even u graduated from top U, but they also need good attitude and soft skill.
作者: foolish.mom 時間: 13-2-25 20:19
My kid is in CIS senior secondary and was transferred from another IS in year 7. According to my observation, home breed students and transferred-in students have equal chance to top U. A few years ago, the school compiled some statistics which showed that average IB scores of students admitted in reception and those admitted midway are similar. The headmaster added in the remarks that "bear in mind students admitted midway, especially at or after year 7, were based on academic excellence".
I personally know quite a large percentage of students in CIS who were admitted to top Us like Princeton, Oxford, Cambridge, Columbia, etc. are without connections, not alumni, no money donation. Harvard may be another story.
In general, most of the students in year 10/11 onwards work very hard, have a lot of pressure from essay, assignments, and tests, care much about academic results. I also observe that those transferred in from local elite schools like DXS or SPXX may not perform very well under this IB and essay intensive environment.
The above is just some personal observation from a CIS parent.
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-2-25 20:35
Sorry to make some parents feel offended. I just want to share knowlege, which i believe are facts from friends i trust, and who are parents of kids at CIS, GSIS, DBS, DGS, SPCC and some top US and UK high schools (I know no one at HKIS, and so can't tell). Of course, i also wish the truth is otherwise.
作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-25 20:37 標題: 回覆：foolish.mom 的帖子
More and more monster parents are pushing kids to IS....the battlefield is moving to IS territory.... Poor kids...
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-2-25 21:09 標題: 引用："....the+record+still+does+not+reflect+i
原帖由 bobbycheung 於 13-02-25 發表
"....the record still does not reflect if the kids studies in the respective schools all the way thr ...
作者: foolish.mom 時間: 13-2-25 21:44
I agree that IS education is what I want: learning happily, self-initiative, good communication skills especially in spoken and written English. And I am glad that I chose IS for my kid.
However, when times come to senior secondary, there is only 1 objective: a good University. By then IS parents behave the same way as local parents, and become grade oriented. I regret to say that starting this year I only allow and encourage my kid to take part in activities that will add weight to the personal statement, i.e. we do what Universities want. It is what I never expect when I look back years ago when I claim that my kid learns happily without pressure.
I have to face reality sooner or later. The good thing is, in IS, we defer the bitter part to as late as possible, and our kids can have happy childhood. (But no experience to deal with extreme academic pressure!)
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-26 02:22
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 13-2-26 02:28 編輯
回復 foolish.mom 的帖子
I'd say from personal experience that 'experience' has nothing to do with it when it comes to extreme academic pressures. I came from a traditional good school in Hong Kong when our family emigrated to Canada during my primary years. What motivated me to study hard during high school was the encouragement i got in junior high years, not the pressure cooker messages i came from back home. When the going gets tough, I find that kids who grew up in Canada often did better than we chinese did, and they had never experienced the pressure we had in Hong Kong. At the end of the day, it's the emotional support, motivation and inner strengths that counts.
Personally i'd choose the path you choose too. Yes, high school is all about marks and doing things to get into a good University, but after one graduates from schools and face the actual reality at a work place, what we learn throughout life truly kicks in.
作者: jeff76916 時間: 13-2-26 07:50
回復 jolalee 的帖子
Thanks a lot for all your valuable sharing. I find one distinctive feature that many of those who had their studies abroad are grateful for their learning experiences there which brings to fruition in development of their later adult lives. On the other hand, we those brought up in local system seldomly would look back and say "if not coz of what I was trained in that way, I would not have gained so much now". At one time, I start to doubt whether our traditional system prepare us for our adult life, I mean, life teaching and character building. Of course, people would jump out here to say that "teaching comes more from parents and should not rely on schools alone". But that reply avoids and misses the important discussion of what our institutional education system is doing here (as opposed to the foreign ones'). Then, I happen to cross across now the video recording of Tiger's Mother's interview. There is large much I don't think much of, but one bit I do agree is what she says that "discipline and good learning attitude is gained through rigourous training since a child is little" (my summary of her words only). That is why she said since she pressed her daughters hard and hard and hard, her daughter's good learning attitude is praised when she switched to learn playing tennis.
Jolalee, that is why when you say you find foreigner kids can eat "tough" pie better than chinese, that arouses much interest in my heart. Can you share more how foreigner kids manages to do better ? is it all about the strong inner passion and motivation, which is inspired by their education system, that make them better than Chinese despite chinese's long tough training?
To clarify, I am not trying to stir up a dispute between the west and the east
作者: jeff76916 時間: 13-2-26 08:06
I mean, it is too vague a ssimple uggestion that their education inspires them in motivation. Coz simply inspiring kids' interest in learning doesn't explain why those kids don't dodge or step back when facing obstables and tough time. There must be some more inner qualities (acquired and inspired through their upbringing) that push them cross that tough bridge when they come by it. We who are brought up here seldom have insight into those important minute details for our own learning benefits
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-26 16:35
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 13-2-26 19:09 編輯
回復 jeff76916 的帖子
My experience could be faculty specific, perhaps dealing with creative problem solving issues. In University, i had teamed up with both chinese and non-chinese students. We all worked around the clock needing to come up with creative ideas or solutions and presenting them through precise professional methods.
While the chinese teams are usually very hard working (often more so then other teams), when working with them we often ended up copying off each other because we cannot come up with the solutions (I'm often the one being copied off from, but as a Chinese, i don't mind). In an innovation based subject, that just wouldn't cut it. When i work with the other guys, we all must bring to the table substantial solutions, and they often do that with heavy metal or clubbing music blasting in the background. They are often very hands on whereas we chinese students are just paper and numbers people.
I think it's the same with some other occupations as well. My husband grew up in Auz since kindie age, and when i asked him about the performance of his colleagues who grew up and studied in HK (to prove why i'd choose IS for our son), he too would shake his head and say they often just copy off other articles and can seldom come up with good solutions themselves.
There are a lot of little things we learn while we were growing up. Although they don't seem relevant at primary or high school age, they do come back to be useful in the long run.
作者: jeff76916 時間: 13-2-26 17:26
Thanks a lot of your valuable sharing, which is very kind of you. I wish to pick up bit and piece of what you have raised. Perhaps, I can come back later tonite when having more time. Thanks
作者: Mom2One 時間: 13-2-26 19:18
foolish.mom 發表於 13-2-25 20:19
My kid is in CIS senior secondary and was transferred from another IS in year 7. According to my obs ...
作者: JTmom 時間: 13-2-26 19:24
In case you are thinking about ICS, think you may have missed the deadline for application for R1 (K1). The first batch of interview was finished last Sat.
作者: foolish.mom 時間: 13-2-26 21:23
回復 Mom2One 的帖子
Mom2One: You are welcome. There are only a few CIS active parents in BK.
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-26 22:17
md23 發表於 13-2-25 16:43
ESF (both in kindergarten and elementary school), in my opinion, simply does not challenge kids eno ...
It'd be hard to let go of a safety rope though. I just hope the Montessori education will be strong enough to put him in a good primary school when the time comes... I do hear that at K3 some kids are doing multiplications (of course, given this is montessori, it all depends on the individual child).
作者: jeff76916 時間: 13-2-28 21:58
回復 jolalee 的帖子
I remember I have watched an interview (posted on Mingpao wesbite about 1/2 year ago) of Dr. Leong Chi Yan. He was then the head of Open U. He said he trusted local education system. He also found HK students managed to reach the top universities all around the world. He said he found nothing wrong with our local education system. Then, I also heard that many top students from local schools can perform very well after switching to IB schools. I think what be fairly said is that HK has very good students who can fare well in whatever education systems. However, looking at those foreign or IB systems on their merits, they have very attractive features, like (i) teaching students to learn to learn (Montessori develops this through giving students self-checking cards/answers so that chidlren can work on their own in doing games and learn to guide themelves in sustained learning; (ii) IB put emphasis on developing student's habits and abilities in relfecting on their own learning process and product, to pick up weakness and move on from there). I think this explains why many studying abroad have the experiences that their foreign classmates may look stupid during the early study years, but these classmates are able to catch up or even overtake them towards later years of the tertiary studies
作者: DreamKid 時間: 13-3-1 09:15 標題: 回覆：jeff76916 的帖子
I think this is the difference between hk parents (maybe also Asian) and western parents. Asian parents look at only academic. Even we parents who chose IS for our kids are still difficult not to see from that perspective.
My elder one is in an IS regarded as very academic but one of her western classmates just moved onto another IS. Westerners value non academic as much as academic.
My company has many people came from good schools. Some of them even got the highest mark in the world in their professional exam. However, when it comes to work, they somehow seem not able to see the issues and come up with proposed solutions. They are also very week in handling people.
These people are doing fine when they are junior staff. However, when they move up, they just don't have the soft skills to cope with the challenge.
作者: jeff76916 時間: 13-3-1 10:03
回復 DreamKid 的帖子
I perfectly understand what you are saying.
作者: Shootastar 時間: 13-3-1 10:56
Education needs money.
The major difference in IS (or boarding school) and LS education is the money spent on each student.
All the benefits which are gained by IS students could be gained by the LS students if they have the same learning environment and the family support (in terms of money spent on sport, music or other activities).
One can see that some of the students from DSS schools are of the same (if not more) qualities of those from IS or boarding schools.
I feel it is not fair to draw the conclusion that the LS students of poorer soft skills after schools if they have good academic results.
作者: DreamKid 時間: 13-3-1 11:08 標題: 回覆：Shootastar 的帖子
I think you are side-tracked. My point was just that non academic skills are as important as academic, especially after school.
作者: DreamKid 時間: 13-3-1 11:19
回復 Shootastar 的帖子
Also, I don't have experience with DSS students yet in the workplace, as DSS is still a rather new creature. I can tell you that those people are not from poor family and thus I do not see how their parents did not spend time and money on them.
作者: cppc20 時間: 13-3-1 11:44
回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子
I can't agree more!
作者: Shootastar 時間: 13-3-1 11:52
回復 DreamKid 的帖子
Sure!, Non-academic skills are as important as academic skills. I have no doubt about that.
I have not side-tracked the discussion. If one wants to compare the soft (non academic skills) of LS and IS and draws the conclusion that IS students (on average) is better than LS students, we have to need to know the reasons why it is. Money matters as far as education (either soft or academic skills) is concerned.
作者: Shootastar 時間: 13-3-1 11:57
回復 DreamKid 的帖子
Yes, you tell the point. DSS students come from families who can afford to pay more so the performance of DSS students (on average) would not be inferior to IS students.
I know you do not have much knowledge about DSS students because they are new creatures. However, you will be amazed by the academic performance of the students from DGS, DBS or St. Paul Co-ed. Last year alone, there were about 38 students of St. Paul Co-ed admitted to the medical school of HKU. You may click into their websites to find out the information if you are interested.
作者: DreamKid 時間: 13-3-1 11:59
回復 Shootastar 的帖子
I did not draw that conclusion!
作者: DreamKid 時間: 13-3-1 12:05
回復 Shootastar 的帖子
Okay, they go the HKU medical school. Does that proof that they have or they have not good soft skills? I actually know a girl from DGS went to HKU Medical School before DGS was a DSS. And so?
I don't undestand why people also jump to that "LS is better than IS" or "IS is better than LS" conclusion at once.
作者: Shootastar 時間: 13-3-1 12:29
回復 DreamKid 的帖子
"My company has many people came from good schools. Some of them even got the highest mark in the world in their professional exam. However, when it comes to work, they somehow seem not able to see the issues and come up with proposed solutions. They are also very week in handling people.
These people are doing fine when they are junior staff. However, when they move up, they just don't have the soft skills to cope with the challenge"
If I am not wrong in understanding the above statement, I have the impression that LS students (on average) are infereior to IS or overseas boarder as far as soft skills are concerned. Please correct me if I am wrong.
作者: jeff76916 時間: 13-3-1 12:43
haha, Dreamkid, when I replied "I can't agree more", I originally also typed "but I am sure you will be seriously challenged and end up having a ideological debate between IS kids vs LS kids", but I just deleted and I didn't expect the attacks could come so quickly and with so many. I think many should have a relaxed mind in understanding one is only saying what he honestly sees and observes. And what one observes does reveal something that deserve our close scrutiny of what is lacking in any system to see how things can move forward. When it becomes a debate between "whether you IS kids are superior or we LS kids are worse", this is only a bickering.
作者: jeff76916 時間: 13-3-1 12:48
sorry, I got it wrong. I didn't say "I can't agree more". But I said to the same effect "I entirely understand what you are saying"
作者: jeff76916 時間: 13-3-1 12:53
I think we should put aside unnecessary bickering. When one says he sees good IS students with such and such qualities, it doesn't help the disucssion by saying but we have DGS,DBS graduates with such and such academic results. There are top students in both streams, and with their top qualities, they should be able to fare well in another stream. A more constructive discussion would be to identify what qualifies of a particular stream "seems" to be missing from the other, and what is that? why is that? how can it be obtained elsewhere? This would be a more meaningful discussion. In fact, local stream is moving towards critical thinking, project assignments, whilst international stream only stresses on academics. Any disuccsion otherwise would be a debate like whether communism or capitalism is better system
作者: lui 時間: 13-3-1 12:59 標題: 引用：回復+DreamKid+的帖子
Yes,+you+tell+the+
原帖由 Shootastar 於 13-03-01 發表
回復 DreamKid 的帖子
Yes, you tell the point. DSS students come from families who can afford to pay ...
作者: DreamKid 時間: 13-3-1 13:59
回復 jeff76916 的帖子
I actually did not say anything about LS. What I sad was I found westerners also value things other than academic. My elder one's school is spposed to be very academic among IS, her classmate moved to another IS which is supposed to be more all arounded.
I also said I see people very academic but lack of soft skills make them not going further as they move up the corporate ladder. I never thought of coming to the conclusion that IS is better than LS. So, I do not understand how my comment cause all the disputes here.
Those people I mentioned did come from local school but that is not my point and thus I did not mention in my original post that they are LS students. I've done recruitment before and met with some very bright students from HKU. So, I don't think that LS students are necessarily inferior. Those bright students probably chose ibank instead of my company.
I was referring to the point quoted on what the Open U person said about the local system. I personally think if you have very strong academic result, you will have very high chance get into good university. Graduating with good grades from good university will likely give you the ticket to big company. From that point on, soft skills play a more and more important role as we move along. I think it is not right to think an education system is all fine because we can send people to good universities. Universities are a place getting us prepared for the workplace. It is just the beginning not the end.
作者: DreamKid 時間: 13-3-1 14:05
I also said that HK parents value a lot on academic, even for parents like us (or I should say me) who put our kid in IS. We still prefer academic IS.
作者: Shootastar 時間: 13-3-1 14:39
回復 jeff76916 的帖子
"A more constructive discussion would be to identify what qualifies of a particular stream "seems" to be missing from the other, and what is that? why is that?"
I have already identified one major factor - money. If you put more money in one's education, there is a higher tendency that he receives more soft skill training (non-academic).
It is always said that LS kids lack of creativity. However, if you do not have a chance to know the basics techniques which help to create, how can you expect one to write a popular song without the knowledge of playing violin, piano or other instruments or musical theory. It needs money to nurture someone of soft skills.
作者: Shootastar 時間: 13-3-1 14:45
回復 lui 的帖子
Thanks for your sharing. Lam Woo is indeed a fabulous school, not only in Kwai Chung or Tsuen Wan districts, but in the whole territory of Hong Kong.
作者: jeff76916 時間: 13-3-1 14:55 標題: 回覆：Shootastar 的帖子
Yes, u identified money. Thank you
作者: hkparent 時間: 13-3-2 13:58 標題: 回覆：DreamKid 的帖子
Can't agree more. You seem to be a senior person in a corporate. Please share how you nurture your children. Thank you very much. You don't need to argue with those local parents. We understand what you are trying to say.
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-3-2 18:02
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 13-3-2 18:07 編輯
I started this thread simply to seek advice on whether a Montessori system or an ESF system would better prepare my child for the application of the captioned schools. I think a comparison between LS & IS is way beyond the subject here, as all the schools in discussion are IS based.
21Ckid kindly raised the point that if academic is the main concern (through reading between the lines and noticed that i was academic focused), then there is an alternative path which would yield higher high school scores. Whether we'd like to follow it in exchange of other aspects we also value is our own choices. I thank 21Ckid for pointing that out, although we both stick to the IS system in the end.
It is good to see different points of views, and thank everyone for giving their advice on how I should go about my son's education. In the end we all walk our own paths and make our own decisions, but it's good to hear different voices and widen each of our own perspectives. That's the whole idea of coming to an education forum.
May I suggest that interested parties open up another thread on LS vs. IS, and continue the discussion there. I am sure there are other parents who'd be interested to discuss this (including myself), and in the end we'll all learn from it. 
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-4 12:53
回復 jolalee 的帖子
Are you a canadian passport holder? The school said from13/14 onwards, it is unlikely anyone not fitting in any of the priority list will get an interview, let alone a seat.
Also, for others' information, the school said the date of application no longer counts any more.
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-3-7 01:10
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 13-3-7 01:33 編輯
回復 21Ckid 的帖子
Are you referring to CDNIS? Yes, I'm Canadian so my son has Cdn passport. They only accept application starting in October prior to the year of entry anyway, so i don't think app date matters.
作者: lui 時間: 13-3-7 07:57 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+jolalee+於+13-3-7+01:33+編輯
原帖由 jolalee 於 13-03-07 發表
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 13-3-7 01:33 編輯
回復 21Ckid 的帖子
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-3-7 11:03
I don't even know you can do that, but anyhow, I don't think the date of application matters for CDNIS, as long as it's before the deadline (Oct 31 prior to the year of entry). For some schools such as GSIS, app date matters, but not CDNIS.
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-7 11:42
I had contacted CDNIS some time ago, prior to 2012 earlier applications did have some advantage. Not any more, still you can apply any time.
Now, all on priority lists (mainly siblings and passport holder) will be interviewed (300+), all those not in the list will not (200+). 100+ had been assessed as pass and 40 seat offered with rest on waiitng list.
So, non passport holder need not apply and waste $2350, i was advised.
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-3-7 13:50
回復 21Ckid 的帖子
Thank you 21Ckid, your info has always been helpful.
Regarding "100+ had been assessed as pass and 40 seat offered with rest on waitng list", is this information related to this year's application? (for the 2013-14 pre-reception class) I did hear from another parent who looked at the application chart that there are about 340 (or 380, i forgot) children on the interview list this year. They told you that 100+ had been assessed as pass? Will the school inform us if they pass or not when the time comes? (or i guess those who pass will be accepted or be put on the waiting list). What will the school do with the students who passed but does not have a seat this year? Is your child waiting for a pre-reception spot this year?
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-3-8 12:03
回復 jolalee 的帖子
The numbers are for 2012. I was told the waitlist will not be carried forward to the next year, not like ESF. Need to reapply. You better ask yourself in case your are given the offer.
I am not a canadian passport holder. So, I will not apply waste money, unless they change the policy.
作者: Mom2One 時間: 13-3-8 17:16
Even for those with priority (sibling etc), I've heard it's better to wait to apply for the reception (K2), when there will be 80 places offered. Most of the 40 places offered for the pre-reception year are apparently taken up by teachers' kids, debenture holders. I know several moms with older kids already in CDNIS who waited to apply for reception (K2) year.
作者: pppwong 時間: 13-7-25 18:27
21Ckid 發表於 13-3-7 11:42
I had contacted CDNIS some time ago, prior to 2012 earlier applications did have some advantage. Not ...
Thanks for your sharing, 21Ckid. I keep calling the school but no one answers the phone, so your info is very useful.
May I clarify one point - do you mean that 'those not in the list' will NOT be assessed at all, or do you mean that they will still pick some kids from that batch for interview? If they won't interview non-passport holders, there's really no need to waste the application fee..... :(:(:( that's sad news indeed, One less option!
From some research I did, I also noticed that many people received interviews and were placed on waiting lists. I really want to know how realistic these waiting lists are...
My hubby and I are from a normal family with good education bakground, without any passports and not rich... not sure how high we should aim for among these top IS! :(
作者: pppwong 時間: 13-7-25 18:32
21Ckid 發表於 13-3-8 12:03
回復 jolalee 的帖子
The numbers are for 2012. I was told the waitlist will not be carried forward t ...
this seems to be what they advocate on their website, but leaves me very perplexed. if one could only obtain debentures after receiving the offer, then who could have obtained it as a priority to gain an assessment chance???
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-7-25 19:23
回復 pppwong 的帖子
I had called them several times, it was always to voicemail. In the return calls, I recognised 2 different voices, one very unhelpful and a bit rude, the other very helpful (and provided the info above). So depends on your luck. Perhaps you leave messages in english, may help!!!
Regarding debenture, I checked with friends later, there is no longer second hand market for years, so just forget it. I gave up finding out how to "acquire after enrolment". There are now only 3 "tradeable" debentures, the one with CIS can only be acquired by sizeable listed companies and have limited duration, the one by Harrow no one offer for sale yet, the one by ISF now quoting $6.8 million (!!!). So, i suppose none viable for most moms here.
I was told the application date no longer matters. You may ask again. As i am not a canadian passport holder, i may not apply for prereception or reception (only 40 seats, guess barely enough for siblings). Perhpas wait for preparatory (grade 1 in esf), seems there are 5 classes of 20 (or 25?) each, and see if any change in policy, But that is some years down the road.
作者: pppwong 時間: 13-7-25 22:49 標題: 引用：回復+pppwong+的帖子
I+had+called+them+s
原帖由 21Ckid 於 13-07-25 發表
回復 pppwong 的帖子
I had called them several times, it was always to voicemail. In the return call ...
Thanks indeed for your sharing. I hv separately sent you a pm, see if you got it! Pardon my many questions! 
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-7-26 04:58
回復 pppwong 的帖子
FYI starting from this year CDNIS will not be interviewing any child without a Canadian passport (they've sent me a letter about it since i applied last year). It's due to the shear amount of applicants. Since Canadian passport holders has priority, and there are too many qualified kids with Cdn passports sufficient to exceed placement availability, i guess they've decided that realistically there's no point interviewing those without it. This is what they wrote on their website regarding admission:
http://www.cdnis.edu.hk/admissions/admission-procedures-policy.html
[p=20, null, left]SELECTION CRITERIA FOR ADMISSIONS ASSESSMENT
Due to an overwhelming number of applications received, priority for an admissions assessment will be based on academic/school performance* and the following criteria. Those who fulfill one or more of the following will receive an assessment interview as long as all available documentation is submitted on or before the application deadline:- Children of staff
- Siblings of students enrolled at CDNIS
- Applicants who are nominees under the [size=1.2em]Capital Debenture programme
- Applicants who passed the admissions assessment and were placed on the waiting list of the preceding school year
- Applicants who hold Canadian citizenship/Canadian passport (please provide a copy of citizenship certificate or passport with application)
- Children of alumni
- Former CDNIS students who left the school and are returning to Hong Kong
- Applicants whose families are relocating to Hong Kong who have not yet secured a school place
I guess the exception might be if you teach there or have other 'historic' connections...
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-7-26 05:12
For pre-reception there's only 2 classes of 20 = 40 seats available.
Yes it is quite impossible to get one, even if your child interviewed well.
For reception they've increased it to 6 classes of 20 = 120 seats, but
given 40 kids goes from pre-reception to reception, 80 new seats are available. This is the most massive kindie intake.
For the preparatory level there are 5 classes of 25 = 125 seats, so it's only 5 additional places, and i'm guessing it's only there for the expat Cdn who transfers to HK suddenly...
作者: pppwong 時間: 13-7-26 09:04 標題: 引用：回復+pppwong+的帖子
FYI+starting+from+t
原帖由 jolalee 於 13-07-26 發表
回復 pppwong 的帖子
FYI starting from this year CDNIS will not be interviewing any child without a ...
I'd like to clarify with the sch but no one answers the phone. Anyway, you are right, even without a 100% no the assessment priorities already speaks a lot
Thanks for sharing!
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-8-23 13:13
回復 pppwong 的帖子
Given that priority for an admissions assessment is given to those listed, and given the number of applicants with a Canadian passport now exceeds the number of space available for assessment, the chance of getting assessed without a Cdn passport is really slim. Never hurt to try, but the application fee is not cheap. Best to call to find out.
作者: bobolily 時間: 13-10-16 17:04
Shrimpiggy 發表於 13-2-23 12:39
CDNIS, AISHK get higher priority to passport holders. AISHK need to apply immediately after birth. ...
May I ask about the application of AISHK? Could you please let me know where you get the info that "AISHK need to apply immediately after birth" ? I read from some sites saying that application only accepts 2 years prior to the age range of 4, which means I can only apply when my kid is 2 years old. Is it a new policy?
Thanks
作者: Babybaby2011 時間: 13-10-23 10:02 標題: 引用：回復+pppwong+的帖子
Given+that+priority
原帖由 jolalee 於 13-08-23 發表
回復 pppwong 的帖子
Given that priority for an admissions assessment is given to those listed, and ...
作者: jolalee 時間: 13-11-3 03:03
The debenture has nothing to do with the interview. One may only obtain one after admission acceptance, i believe... (please correct me if i misunderstood the system)
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