教育王國

標題: No more Cat 1 and Cat 2 for ESF admission! [打印本頁]

作者: Mom2One 時間: 13-2-3 23:39 標題: No more Cat 1 and Cat 2 for ESF admission!

Just received an email from ESF confirming that starting next year, there will no longer be Category 1 and Category 2 division. Other priorities still remain (teachers' kids, sibling priority, legacy priority for parents who are former ESf students), but applicants will no longer be discriminated on the basis of their Cantonese ability.
The other big development is that this year's intake into ESF kindies will be the last year to enjoy interview priority into ESF primaries. Starting next year, ESF kindies will lose this priority.

Finally it appears that future ESFYear 1 interviews will no longer be "non-selective" and both students and parents will face a more rigorous interview process.

Rumors of all these developments have been going around for some time now - but now it is finally confirmed.

作者: gorbb 時間: 13-2-4 01:29 標題: 回覆：Mom2One 的帖子

Thanks for the info. Could you pls tell me that why ESF has sent you the letter? My girl sat for the interview at ESF WKS but we didn't receive any info so far. Many thanks!

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-2-4 03:07

本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 13-2-4 06:37 編輯

Mom2One 發表於 13-2-3 23:39
future ESFYear 1 interviews will no longer be "non-selective" and both students and parents will face a more rigorous interview process ...

With the current HK government's plan to "do something" about ESF, it is not surprising that ESF bring about some changes.

Doing away with the Cat 1 & 2 prioritization might be a good thing, but then the catch is they will no longer be "non-selective", now that is a Leung Chun Ying style double negative, it simply means they will be "more selective". While the Cat 1 & 2 prioritization is out in the open for the public to see (and for some to attack), in future all kinds of selection criteria will be hidden behind this "more rigorous interview process", ESF will have all the prerequisites to become like those elitist schools in Hongkong.

作者: WYmom 時間: 13-2-4 08:32

Very logical move, and many people will be glad to see no more Category 1 priority. As there will be no more govt subvention, ESF schools have to intake students with better academic capabilities so that the schools can be competitive with other IS.

作者: poonseelai 時間: 13-2-4 08:49

one good thing perhaps is that parents do not need to train their kids to be non-Cantonese speaking in order to be in Cat 1

作者: musicien 時間: 13-2-4 08:51 標題: 引用：one+good+thing+perhaps+is+that+parents+d

原帖由 poonseelai 於 13-02-04 發表
one good thing perhaps is that parents do not need to train their kids to be non-Cantonese speaking ...

Agree.but it came to late. For us.

作者: Glossimar 時間: 13-2-4 09:07 標題: 回覆：No more Cat 1 and Cat 2 for ESF admission!

Copy from the letter.

The priority for an interview or assessment under the new admissions policy (effective from August 2013) will be based on the following ranked criteria; students who are able to benefit from an English medium education and who (in order) are:

1. Children of full-time staff at ESF or ESF Educational Services Limited;
2. Siblings of students already attending an ESF primary or secondary school or Jockey Club Sarah Roe School;
3. Holders of ESF Nomination Rights;
4. Children of former students who have attended an ESF school for a minimum of three years or are former ESF students returning from a period overseas;
5. Other applicants who can benefit from an English-medium education.

Children who attend an ESF International Kindergarten have in the past received priority for interview at ESF schools. Those children currently attending an ESF International Kindergarten in the 2012-13 academic year, as well as those who apply for and gain a kindergarten place in 2013-14, will continue to receive priority when they apply for a Year 1 place. When the new ESF admissions policy takes effect for applications for the 2014-15 school year, the interview priority will no longer apply.

Non-Cantonese speaking嘅小朋友依然獲優先面試。新措施似乎係著眼於esf kindergarten 將失去面試優先喎。

作者: LOVELYABB 時間: 13-2-4 09:08 標題: 回覆：Mom2One 的帖子

Thanks for sharing the information!

Would this new policy have any negative impact on sibling priorities?

作者: md23 時間: 13-2-4 09:40

Awesome news.

作者: md23 時間: 13-2-4 09:46

LOVELYABB 發表於 13-2-4 09:08
Thanks for sharing the information!

Would this new policy have any negative impact on sibling prior ...

Obviously that depends on whether the child speaks Cantonese. For anyone NOT speaking Cantonese, it's bad news.

作者: LOVELYABB 時間: 13-2-4 09:53 標題: 回覆：md23 的帖子

Cantonese speaking affects sibling priorities under new and old system?

I thought siblings get priority for interviews regardless. Sorry if this is an obvious question as I am not too familiar. New mummy here

作者: md23 時間: 13-2-4 09:54

LOVELYABB 發表於 13-2-4 09:53
Cantonese speaking affects sibling priorities under new and old system?

I thought siblings get prio ...

Within the sibling priority, non-cantonese speaker is still ahead of cantonese speaker, under the old system.

作者: polyu4537 時間: 13-2-4 10:03

Now, ESF PIS (DC , RC) like that. No Cat 1 or Cat 2

I think that the parents have heavy pressure. ESF will check / test their Eng standard.

Maybe, in coming day have tutor class for Parents interview.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-2-4 10:04

WYmom 發表於 13-2-4 08:32
ESF schools have to intake students with better academic capabilities so that the schools can be competitive with other IS ...

I doubt that, if ESF has been non-selective in their intake and yet achieve respectable academic results, it shows that it is the "process" that counts and not so much the "input material".

Now that they will become more selective and less transparent, I think they will probably favour those who have family bank statements showing at least an 8 figure sum, the introduction of nomination rights last year is already a step in that direction.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-4 10:10 標題: 回覆：FattyDaddy 的帖子

good education is always expensive.

作者: chickchick 時間: 13-2-4 10:28

A more details from the letter :

The new admissions policy will put an end to the category system. Starting from August 2013, the admissions assessment process will be strengthened. The emphasis will be on the actual testing of the children’s English language proficiency, and on verifying the parents’ commitment to an ESF style English medium education through a parental statement and interview.

We believe that the revamped admissions policy will be more appropriate to modern Hong Kong. ESF is very successful in providing a modern liberal education through the medium of English. We are confident that the revised policy will be seen to be transparent and fair to families with an English language background.

第五點 -->Other applicants who can benefit from an English-medium education. 這句明顯如樓上有媽咪說, non-cantonese speaking仍然優先. 如何分出誰的小朋友可以benefit fr eng-medium educcation??? esf自有自己的標準, 我們只憑一信內容, 是不得而知的. 但常理來說, 當然是 "小朋友用英文比用其他語言更能適應學習" 了! 小朋友要切入呢個 priority ,我認為first-language 是英語也不為過.

如果再細心看看接住based on eng lang proficiency那句, "and on verifying the parents’ commitment to an ESF style English medium education through a parental statement and interview." 我很懷疑往後的interview或selection process要不要接見家長!!! 如果要寫parental statement 或 interview埋家長, 我相信esf更能find out 他們的 right-students.

學生英文好, 那麼家人的英文如何??? 往後家長參與學校活動, 做helper帶隊出trips 也是有機會的. 如果家長英語有一定水平. 對學校辦活動, 對教導小朋友學業, 也有極大幫助.

整理說, 我覺得這是非常公平的做法. 內地人讀esf的人, 有人說不公平, 因為他們不懂cantonese 但懂mandarin, non-esf kinder對esf kinder有priority 也有不滿的. 甚至以前有些posts 說hk的mixed baby, 明明識cantonese也有piority......總總...... 今次esf做法也算公平公開, 杜絕一些符符碌碌入去, 但小朋友或家長英文水平不高的人. 對真正入到去讀書的小朋友是好事哦!

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-2-4 10:29

> WYmom They are because Cat 1 always has priority. People speak English do not necessarily good in academics

I'm not sure what you mean here.

ESF have been non-selective, the only "selection" is that they take on more Cat 1 children who probably speak better English than average, but just like you said these children aren't necessarily good in academics, and yet at the end of the day their IB and IGCSE results and university placements are more than respectable, then doesn't that imply the "intake" is not as important as the "process"?

If that is the case, I see little reason why they would change to select by academic ability and not financial ability.

作者: WYmom 時間: 13-2-4 10:35

本帖最後由 WYmom 於 13-2-4 10:43 編輯

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

I mean they were non-selective in the past as cat 1 has priority, so students are not necessarily good in academics.
After changing admission policy, they can select students who speak English well plus better in academics. So they can be more selective obviously.

Regarding financial ability, I think when the school fees are raised by 25%, most applicants will be families with good financial abilities, so this won't be a factor for prioritization. The richer ones always have a lot more choices, this has been a fact for ages.

作者: chickchick 時間: 13-2-4 10:39

回復 WYmom 的帖子

totally agree with you.

it's gd for school attaining brilliant academic results in public exams.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-4 10:41 標題: 引用：回復+FattyDaddy+的帖子 I+mean+they+were

原帖由 WYmom 於 13-02-04 發表
回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

I mean they were non-selective in the past as cat 1 has priority, so student ...

I don't know how to select good academic children at the interview age of 4yrs old?!

作者: alpham0m 時間: 13-2-4 11:03

港英餘孽壽終正寢。

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-2-4 11:04

chickchick 發表於 13-2-4 10:28
杜絕一些符符碌碌入去, 但小朋友或家長英文水平不高的人. 對真正入到去讀書的小朋友是好事哦! ...

From first hand observation, I would say very few children actually fluked their way in, even the Cat 2 students speak good English. I wouldn't say there are no flukes, but very few.

The problem with the new system is, it is more vague. Previously the priorities were pretty clear cut, if you're an ESF kindergarten pupil, you have priority, if you are Cat 1, you have priority. These prioritizations may not be very agreeable, but at least they were out in the open, now they simply say they will admit "applicants who can benefit from an English-medium education", and that means very little to anyone.

I think they have simply taken a cue from those elite schools in Hongkong, instead of stating their preferences openly they now keep quiet about them.

作者: chickchick 時間: 13-2-4 11:31

回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

"applicants who can benefit from an English-medium education" 你說是對的, 確是沒有明確指引. 不過,那也是沒有辦法. 每項制度也有優劣. 也得取捨.

不過, 作為家長, 對策也只有好好讓小朋友學好英文. 現在改制, 我細仔9月入表申請Y1 (已有esf silblings) 也更緊張. 始終競爭激烈了.

有能者居之! 無論工作上, 學習上, 生活上, 也是合情合理的. 只有大家努力吧~ 唉

作者: LOVELYABB 時間: 13-2-4 11:36 標題: 回覆：chickchick 的帖子

Chick chick - think u are in a very comfortable position already. U shouldn't have much to worry about for second son right ? He should get an interview chance.

I think the parent interview is an excellent idea!

作者: mldaddy 時間: 13-2-4 11:38

回復 Mom2One 的帖子

Thanks a lot for sharing this. Precious!

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-4 11:39 標題: 引用：回復+FattyDaddy+的帖子 "applicants+who+

原帖由 chickchick 於 13-02-04 發表
回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子

"applicants who can benefit from an English-medium education" 你說是對的, 確 ...

非常同意chickchick！學校面試和見工—樣，不知道別人怎樣選，先要準備好自己

作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-2-4 11:41

2013 entry into ESF kinder would get the best of all. Interview priority just after siblings (as no Cat 1 to get in front of them in 2015 entry to P1). My kid is just few months old, but still wish you good luck.

I guess what they are after are, in essence:
1. to kick out the "forged" cat 1 kids
2. essentially giving preference to non-oriental faces
3. most important of all, about money. i guess we will see lot more nomination rights in future, and wouldn't be surprised if they introduce million dollars debenture in future.

作者: tay 時間: 13-2-4 11:48

回復 Shrimpiggy 的帖子

Agree when it is a job interview, or interview to schools or uni for much older kids, but not on 4 year olds!! The 'preparations' that a child that age has to go through to 'equip' oneself for admission to a school are just..... sad.... Now they are taking away the one good thing in their admission policy... (I mean the non selective criteria and not the cat 1/2 division)

作者: alpham0m 時間: 13-2-4 11:56

有教無類已成歷史，精英教育愈演愈烈！

作者: ramen 時間: 13-2-4 12:17

alpham0m,

Both your statements are so right ---> "港英餘孽壽終正寢。" & "有教無類已成歷史，精英教育愈演愈烈！"

作者: 田心 時間: 13-2-4 12:27 標題: 引用：有教無類已成歷史，精英教育愈演愈烈！

原帖由 alpham0m 於 13-02-04 發表
有教無類已成歷史，精英教育愈演愈烈！

That's same as the rest of the world.

作者: oooray 時間: 13-2-4 12:52

I don't think local parents could enjoy so much from the change.
Instead, I foresee existing international kindergarten will expand their capacity rapidly and more and more new international kindergarten will be coming to meet the increasing demand (it "seems" to have a great chance for local parets to get a place without the cateogory issue).
End up more and more parents will be competing at kindergarten stage for the limited primary places; More and more parents will be disappointed.

At the end of the day, investors of International kindergarten are the only winners.

作者: alpham0m 時間: 13-2-4 12:52

回復田心的帖子

I thought ESF was the last hope. Time to wake up and smell the rotten world!

作者: do123alex 時間: 13-2-4 13:04

oooray 發表於 13-2-4 12:52
I don't think local parents could enjoy so much from the change.
Instead, I foresee existing interna ...

Agree. The announcement mentioned that the policy will be more transparent and fair to families with English language background. In other words, the local families as well as the non English speaking expatriates will not be benefited by the new policy.

作者: 21Ckid 時間: 13-2-4 13:21

The plus is we don't need to do the weird thing of forbidding the kid to learn Chinese , and minus is we need to save up an extra 500k (or perhaps 1 million) as the no. of NR will sure multiply. Agree with the above that for local chinese not able or willing to be robbed 500k, the chance is no better than now.

作者: konimama 時間: 13-2-4 13:27 標題: 回覆：No more Cat 1 and Cat 2 for ESF admission!

They put the NR just after the 1. Staffs & 2. Siblings~
ESF going to be the same as others international school then. Like some others, buying debenture, raise up the tuition fee, interview solely depend on your kids' ability.
They hvn't asked u to show the bank book though, no worry if u are not rich. It's silly to think in this way.
Many students here whom their patents are civil servant, living in government funded estate. Not all are rich though.

作者: ramen 時間: 13-2-4 13:45

本帖最後由 ramen 於 13-2-4 13:48 編輯

oooray 發表於 13-2-4 12:52
I don't think local parents could enjoy so much from the change.
Instead, I foresee existing interna ...

I think the ESF kindies would be less attractive to local parents starting this year round of admission cycle as it loses its competitive edge of having the prority in the Year 1 admission process.

Your point is right, local parents would probably put their children in a "more competitive" international kindie (esf kindies are too "hea" in parents' eyes) in order to better prepare their little ones for the "battle".

作者: 新人王 時間: 13-2-4 13:46 標題: 回覆：No more Cat 1 and Cat 2 for ESF admission!

Without government support, ESF has to become just another international school. It's very normal. Why blame it for increasing tuition fee and introduce NR? Even with 20% increase, the fee is still at the low side comparing to other international school.

作者: cppc20 時間: 13-2-4 14:34

回復 alpham0m 的帖子

Is the priority of Cat 1 over Cat 2 有教無類? I don't think so.

作者: alpham0m 時間: 13-2-4 14:44

回復 cppc20 的帖子

I actually think it is. You cannot put a kid who speaks no English in an English-medium school without causing much pain to both the kid, or more so, to the parents. They do not pick "clever" kids, they just make sure kids they admit speak and understand English so that they can grown and thrive. But that's just my opinion. Nothing important.

作者: cppc20 時間: 13-2-4 15:26

回復 alpham0m 的帖子

Correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know,

Category One
Children who speak English as a first or alternative language but do not speak Cantonese and/or read and write Chinese characters.

As such, even though a kid can speak fluent English no matter what race he/she is, he/she will be in Cat two if he/ she does speak Cantonese.

It is so pity that some Cantonese-speaking parants might deliberately prevent their kids from learning Cantonese in order to fit into Cat One.

作者: alpham0m 時間: 13-2-4 15:32

回復 cppc20 的帖子

I am not going to correct anyone in a forum as we are all entitled to our own view and interpretation. I agree with you that some parents had to prevent their kids form learning their mother tongue. Very sad indeed.

作者: kfy 時間: 13-2-4 16:41

本帖最後由 kfy 於 13-2-4 16:43 編輯

It seems that most ESF schools will eventually run on the model of RC.
I think that it would be a good news to those parents that would like their kids to learn better Chinese, as they may now allow their kids to start learning (or exposure) at a younger age. It would also be good to ESF as well, as they will be in a better position to compete with other IS such as CIS, CDNIS and SIS in terms of bilingual education.

作者: Mom2One 時間: 13-2-4 16:42

本帖最後由 Mom2One 於 13-2-4 16:45 編輯

"Even with 20% increase, the fee is still at the low side comparing to other international school."

Actually is only lower in strictly monetary terms. When you factor in the class size (30 kids instead of the 20-25 children in other international schools), then it is debatable whether it really is "value for money"

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-4 17:00 標題: 回覆：Mom2One 的帖子

cat 1/2 is discrimination but assessment of English level is the discretion of the guidelines followed by the interviewee. it can be more ambiguous.

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作者: 新人王 時間: 13-2-4 17:12 標題: 引用：回復+alpham0m+的帖子 Correct+me+if+I+am

原帖由 cppc20 於 13-02-04 發表
回復 alpham0m 的帖子

Correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know,

Whether the child can speak Cantonese or not is not the main point, the most important thing ESF wants to make sure is that the child can communicate with English freely. There are many children who can speak fluently both Cantonese and English were admitted by ESF as I know. It's very likely they will reject a child who does not react or converse in English during the interview. And it's for the good of the future study too because it would be very difficult for the child to catch up in the primary study.

作者: WYmom 時間: 13-2-4 17:48

The chairman said in the news that as it takes them a lot of work to verify the cat 1 information, they decide to do away with categories and rather look at the actual English proficiency of applicants and the parents' profile. So this can eliminate those 'fake' cat 1.

作者: manfatcentre 時間: 13-2-4 19:14 標題: 引用：alpham0m,Both+your+statements+are+so+rig

原帖由 ramen 於 13-02-04 發表
alpham0m,

Both your statements are so right ---> "港英餘孽壽終正寢。" & "有教無類已成歷史，精英教育 ...

agree..仲話家長要英文勁。最好in 埋。唔知果d菲媽，非英語既西，法，意人点算

作者: poonseelai 時間: 13-2-4 19:59

New business opportunity: interview class for parents!😁

Esf may reposition their kindergarten to be a feeder school for other IS as well.

作者: Mom2One 時間: 13-2-4 20:14

21Ckid 發表於 13-2-4 11:41
2013 entry into ESF kinder would get the best of all. Interview priority just after siblings (as no ...

That may be true in terms of getting the interview letter. But since the actual interview process has changed to what appears to be a more rigorous process (including a parent interview), who knows whether there will be the same high success rate for those with interview letter for confirmed spots.

作者: alpham0m 時間: 13-2-4 21:00

剛剛看英文台新聞看到一個新角度，英基可能想借此機會拋開港英餘孽的包袱，再攤開手掌向狼英政府多拿幾年補貼。純屬個人揣測，飯後娛樂。請不要找我辯論，或是說服任何人，因為那樣好累。

作者: Choisumwong 時間: 13-2-4 21:55

I think ESF is facing the reality that English standard has dropped rapidly for past few years, wich severly affects teaching and academic level. I know many talented students left to study in UK. To be more competitive, ESF has made correct decision.

作者: filicity 時間: 13-2-4 22:28

回復 Choisumwong 的帖子

完全同意,因為近呢幾年收既新生英文水準都好唔得,大部份收哂ESF糼稚園既學生,連讀WOODLAND既小朋友大部份都冇得IN,而且我亦遇過D家長D英文都................

作者: Maoku 時間: 13-2-4 23:23 標題: 引用：回復+Choisumwong+的帖子完全同意,因為近

原帖由 filicity 於 13-02-04 發表
回復 Choisumwong 的帖子

完全同意,因為近呢幾年收既新生英文水準都好唔得,大部份收哂ESF糼稚園既學生,連 ...

7成係香港PR，何來有咁多Cat1，有邏輯都知好多人扮Cat1，結果搞到啲真係有需要嘅真Cat1冇位。英基個CEO仲話好難check，淨係信張表格所填嘅嘢而定優先次序，簡直係行政失當，有違謹慎原則。我所見啲所謂Cat1十個有七個啲父母講嘅都係流利港式英文，啲細路點會係入唔到主流教育系統吖。ESF have not done the thing right at the outset, even thou' the original categorization policy may be the right thing to do!

作者: umom 時間: 13-2-5 00:43 標題: 回覆：No more Cat 1 and Cat 2 for ESF admission!

Well, ESF is in the process of hiring a new CEO. Perhaps no one knows what sort of reformations will be taken place when the new CEO comes on board.

I guess ESF might have realized that those who "pretend" to be the CAT1 and prevent their kids from learning Chinese tend to be coming from the families with "poor English. These parents thought they get higher chance putting their foot to the door, but at the end of the day they are incapable of helping their kids survive through the English medium schooling!

While there are many parents with bilingual kids speaking native like English but also fluent Chinese tend to be "more honest" to tick the CAT2 box.

作者: do123alex 時間: 13-2-5 07:00

Maoku 發表於 13-2-4 23:23
7成係香港PR，何來有咁多Cat1，有邏輯都知好多人扮Cat1，結果搞到啲真係有需要嘅真Cat1冇位。英基個CEO仲話 ...

Yes and No. PR does not necessarily mean local. Expatriates families staying in HK for over 7 years with HKID would also consider themselves PR.

作者: c200 時間: 13-2-5 08:07

回復 alpham0m 的帖子

I agreed with you ,maybe this is the main reason why Esf changes the new policy.

作者: polyu4537 時間: 13-2-5 08:18

回復 Choisumwong 的帖子

Agree with u !!!!

作者: cppc20 時間: 13-2-5 10:27

回復新人王的帖子

As in the Cat 1 & 2 policy, speaking Cantonese or not is very important for the admission of interview. ESF is on the right track now to emphasis on English only. I was wondering if it is so easy for Cat 2 kids (speaking both fluent Cantonese and English) to get into ESF.

作者: dtwy 時間: 13-2-5 10:52

隨此外，改了之後便可以吸納更多強勁國家的人來彌補將來沒有了資助的日子。^_^

作者: Hedgies 時間: 13-2-5 10:56

So what would be the real changes in terms of admission process for my kid who has a sibling studying at ESF primary already?

作者: sonicgina 時間: 13-2-5 13:52

本帖最後由 sonicgina 於 13-2-5 13:52 編輯

回復 poonseelai 的帖子

Yes

作者: konimama 時間: 13-2-5 14:03 標題: 回覆：Hedgies 的帖子

U hv got an higher priority than before if u are cat2 siblings

作者: Hedgies 時間: 13-2-5 14:12

回復 konimama 的帖子

Thanks! Does this mean that I need to attend the parent interview too?? If so, this would seem a bit strange as my other kid is already studying there..

作者: LOVELYABB 時間: 13-2-5 14:18 標題: 回覆：konimama 的帖子

Starting this year (admission for Aug 2013), sibling's priority is before Cat 1. Correct me if I am wrong, there is no difference in cat 1/2 for siblings already.

作者: Mom2One 時間: 13-2-5 14:20

My understanding is that everyone will need to go through the new interview process, once it is in place (2014 onwards?).

Just like before, the priorities you hold (eg sibling) will put you ahead in terms of getting the interview opportunity (the interview letter). But the interview format itself will be the new process - ie. more specific testing of the child as well as parent interview (and mission statement).

作者: tay 時間: 13-2-5 14:31

I thought siblings (regardless of whether the child can speak cantonese or not) already have a higher priority than cat 1 children with no siblings in the current admission policy?

作者: LOVELYABB 時間: 13-2-5 15:06 標題: 回覆：tay 的帖子

Also read in scmp today that esf is thinking about new corporate nomination rights. So be on the lookout, more "goodies" to come

作者: mouton 時間: 13-2-5 16:39

本帖最後由 mouton 於 13-2-5 16:43 編輯

The Corporate Surety Scheme was first introduced in 2007, ESF was unable to offer places in the first year of primary school under the previous Corporate Surety Scheme. They want to review it and make the application availability at least a year in advance. Finally, they established Nomination Rights Scheme to replace the Corporate Surety Scheme in October 2012.

作者: Mom2One 時間: 13-2-5 17:25

本帖最後由 Mom2One 於 13-2-5 17:28 編輯

Mom2One 發表於 13-2-5 14:20
My understanding is that everyone will need to go through the new interview process, once it is in p ...

WYmom New interview process starts by August 2013. 發表於 1 小時前

Actually the interviews will be in early 2014. Assuming ESF continues with the same timeline as before, the new round of applications will take place in Sep 2013, interview letters will go out around end-Nov and the actual interviews will happen in Jan 2014.

作者: konimama 時間: 13-2-5 22:26 標題: 回覆：Hedgies 的帖子

I hv attended the interview which is in SJS. They are the first school to interview both parents started from 2 years ago.
That's the only way to find out who flake they are cat1 though.
We have the most number Cat2 get in ESF. Many parents from TKO, which their catchment area goes to CWS, they changed their address to Sha Tin area, like buying flats, move to Shatin, just wanna get in SJS interview.
Interview is very simply and causal, Vice Principal chat with both parents, talking about your child daily life, how's you will enhance their English capability, what's your view about ESF education. And what u expected ESF can give your child.
Very normal one. We just told him, we want to put him with the schools not so pushy and let him roll ~~~~ explore his interests and grow.
You don't need to state any silly thing like interview in local school, just talk about why you choose international school.
Be yourself!!!

作者: sweetheartb 時間: 13-2-5 22:40 標題: 回覆：21Ckid 的帖子

Very true!

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-5 23:24 標題: 回覆：konimama 的帖子

like the constitutional law of England, no need everything black and white! tradition and immaterial heritage can carry on generation after generation.

作者: bigbighei 時間: 13-2-6 08:40 標題: 回覆：Mom2One 的帖子

咁咪唔洗再嘈屬Cat1 & Cat 2 既問題囉！

作者: Hedgies 時間: 13-2-6 09:33

回復 konimama 的帖子

Thanks Konimama for your sharing! very helpful color on the parental interview!

作者: xx33 時間: 13-2-6 10:45

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除內容自動屏蔽

作者: poohpoohmouse 時間: 13-2-6 14:00

Frankly speaking, I think what ESF is doing is to reinforce the cat 1/2 system rather than abolishing it.  In essence they are saying "You said you are cat 1, we don't believe your BS.  Come and prove it in person, parents".

It's not too difficult to make a kid cat 1.  I won't say it's fake cat 1.  But rather it's man made cat 1.  The kid will be speaking english and englidh only because only english will be taught to him / her.  To reinforece the cat 1 / 2 system, the parents need to be cat 1 too or at least speaking fluent english.

So what would be the end result?  I don't know.  Those foreign (western) parents speaking native english will definitely benefit from the new policy.  How about local parents?  I don't believe all local parents can speak fluent english or even fluent HK english.  So it's wrong to say it's now fair to all local parents / kids.  (I am not saying this is good or bad.)  For mainlanders, I don't know how many or little of them speak fluent english.  But I guess it would be less than 50% of them.

I don't know if the new policy is good or bad but I have a feeling that it's more difficult for a local kid with local parents to get in.  Or the other way round it's easier for non-locals to get in.

作者: Maoku 時間: 13-2-6 14:05 標題: 回覆：No more Cat 1 and Cat 2 for ESF admission!

Si

作者: NoahArk 時間: 13-2-6 14:42

poohpoohmouse 發表於 13-2-6 14:00
Frankly speaking, I think what ESF is doing is to reinforce the cat 1/2 system rather than abolishin ...

I agree. Obviously, ESF is moving away from the non-selective system. Can't fault it. Abolishing the category I/II system means more flexibility (and probably more money). Why not? What is not so good news to those who don't speak fluent English is that they will have to brush up their, not just their children's English. For some local Hong Kong parents, they may find it more difficult to secure a place at ESF. In the new game, ESF wants "category I family", not just "category I applicants". The bar is raised.

作者: md23 時間: 13-2-6 14:45

poohpoohmouse 發表於 13-2-6 14:00
Frankly speaking, I think what ESF is doing is to reinforce the cat 1/2 system rather than abolishin ...

They are basically saying, we don't care whether you speak Cantonese, we only care about your English. Obviously, if some children can only learn one language and they choose to learn Cantonese, they won't fare well under the new system.

作者: WYmom 時間: 13-2-6 15:41

回復 NoahArk 的帖子

Agree with you. It is true that if parents do not speak English or are not good in English, it is difficult to communicate with the school well and help the children effectively through their school lives.

作者: sschiu 時間: 13-2-7 19:50 標題: 引用：回復+NoahArk+的帖子 Agree+with+you.++It

原帖由 WYmom 於 13-02-06 發表
回復 NoahArk 的帖子

Agree with you. It is true that if parents do not speak English or are not goo ...

That's the whole point!!

作者: Choisumwong 時間: 13-2-7 20:45

回復 NoahArk 的帖子

My experience in ESF for the past few years is that many parents' English are so poor that they actually ask to speak Cantonese to communicate with teachers and school staff when they participate in school meeting and activity days.
When school teachers ask parents to give talks to students, I remember I was the only one across the whole year to give talk to students !
I think ESF has strong ground to adopt new policy that teaching is more effective and realistic with parents' participation.

作者: do123alex 時間: 13-2-7 21:41

Choisumwong 發表於 13-2-7 20:45
回復 NoahArk 的帖子

Not totally agree.
I see most ESF parents are good in English speaking and the local parents are active class parent volunteers.

作者: fongchanchow 時間: 13-2-7 22:01 標題: 回覆：filicity 的帖子

對英基管理作風以失望！

作者: sweetheartb 時間: 13-2-8 12:16

poohpoohmouse 發表於 13-2-6 14:00
Frankly speaking, I think what ESF is doing is to reinforce the cat 1/2 system rather than abolishin ...

200% agree with your statements!

作者: konimama 時間: 13-2-9 00:36 標題: 引用：對英基管理作風以失望！ +

原帖由 fongchanchow 於 13-02-07 發表
對英基管理作風以失望！

Very true!!!
Very messy administration, I hv no idea why most of those admin staffs are not in standard.

作者: ringoy 時間: 13-2-9 13:37 標題: 引用：I+hv+attended+the+interview+which+is+in+

原帖由 konimama 於 13-02-05 發表
I hv attended the interview which is in SJS. They are the first school to interview both parents sta ...

Agree

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-9 14:53 標題: 回覆：ringoy 的帖子

in fact we are quite satisfied with their arrangement as the letters from Kjs, RC and esf kg ty are well prepared without any ambiguity and the answer from as admin offices are promptly within one day.

作者: umom 時間: 13-2-10 16:07

本帖最後由 umom 於 13-2-10 21:24 編輯

If you watch the 鏗鏘集 - 國際學校誰讀 aired in Feb2012, the CEO of ESF already talked about abolishing the CAT 1 and CAT 2 system and to focus on assessing the English language proficiency of the interviewed kids.

ESF schools being the IB schools, it's indeed important that their students are able to us the language to benefit from the IB system, which emphasises a lot on inquiry, lots of verbal intractions in the classroom... unlike the other systems, such as the local systems as I assume, students are expected to absorb knowledge "given" or passed on from the teachers, from the books and all that. If the students of ESF can't use English language at a certain required level to cope with the IB system right from the beginning, ultimately it's the student him/herself who's suffering, and in worse case, with parents who aren't capable of helping them much in this aspect.

I think ESF is sending out a very clear message that if you want your kids to be admitted to the ESF schools, please get started right from th very beginning to train them in using the language, and not trying to take away their right to learn Cantonese and thought not speaking cantonese means they will speak English fluently.

作者: jolalee 時間: 13-2-11 03:18

umom 發表於 13-2-10 16:07
If you watch the 鏗鏘集 - 國際學校誰讀 aired in Feb2012, the CEO of ESF already talked about abolis ...

You are absolutely correct, umom. I learned from early childhood education experts that communicating to young children in their mother tongue is vital to their ability to have deep inner thoughts as they grow older. Although my spoken English is near native (living abroard since primary age), I would never totally give up speaking to my child in Cantonese. In fact, I was about to give up ESF because of their 'discrimination' against Canto.
I think the CAT 1&2 system is outdated, applicable only in the old days, when families in hk were fluent in one language only; very black & white. Nowadays ethnic Chinese comes in 50 shades of grey when it comes to language ability, and I'm glad they're willing to take the time to find out who are the real English speakers.

作者: birdbird 時間: 13-2-14 19:32

本帖最後由 birdbird 於 13-2-14 19:39 編輯

From my understanding of the past, Cat 1 and Cat 2 is to distinguish kids who can take local education from others who cannot. Say, for a Japanese / Korean kid whose parents fly from their home country to hk to work, these kids should be classified as Cat 1 and should be given a higher priority to attend ESF as long as they can listen or express themselves in simple english. for the local chinese, whose children can speak both cantonese and english, they have a wider choice of schools including those primary schools using chinese as the teaching medium. Same apply to those who have foreign passports but parents are still local chinese. Putting these kids into Cat 2 is reasonable as ESF is not their only door for education. The only problem is that some monster parents train their kids to speak english only and claim their kids are cat 1. (How come a local chinese kid with chinese parents cannot speak cantonese? weird and ridiculous!) The parents allege that the cat 1 and cat 2 classification is not fair to them but actually, they are playing tricks instead of a fair game.

In my opinion, Cat 1 and Cat 2 system is a fairer system to kids and parents. The screening system, of which the ultimate goal is to screen out kids who cannot listen or express themselves in simple english, is more reasonable for a 4-yr old kid than those interviews offered by the local primary schools which are to pick the outstanding kids. When there are no more Cat 1 and Cat 2 classification, i can see that there will be more and more monster parents training their kids to be professional interviewees. This is not what a normal education system should be but parents of Hong Kong always make weird things happen.

作者: Shrimpiggy 時間: 13-2-14 21:39 標題: 回覆：birdbird 的帖子

I believe ESF teachers are professional enough to pick the right children!

作者: PoohsBaby 時間: 13-2-14 23:27

回復 birdbird 的帖子

"In my opinion, Cat 1 and Cat 2 system is a fairer system to kids and parents."回復 birdbird 的帖子

Why do you think it is a fair system??? The Government is using Taxpayers money to subsidize expatriates / foreign nationals kid's schooling in HK. This ESF subvention is by no means fair to HK residents. We get labelled as CAT 2 because our surname is chinese .... ! ESF is getting plenty of money from the Government to pay for these people. There are plenty of IS around for them.

"This is not what a normal education system should be but parents of Hong Kong always make weird things happen."回復 birdbird 的帖子

HK parents are just fighting for their rights. Why is it not normal? If the system is flawed and outdated, do something about it!!!

作者: birdbird 時間: 13-2-15 20:23

PoohsBaby 發表於 13-2-14 23:27
Why do you think it is a fair system??? The Government is using Taxpayers money to subsidize expatriates / foreign nationals kid's schooling in HK. This ESF subvention is by no means fair to HK residents.

Local chinese are tax payers but it doesn't mean that expatriates working in Hong Kong do not need to pay tax to the HKSAR Government.

ESF is under government's subvention, so its admission policy should be fair to tax payers. 'Fair' does not simply mean giving everybody the same thing. It should take into account the circumstances. Kids of local chinese families obviously have a wider choice of education. However, some of we local chinese pick ESF because of its curricumlum, culture and comparatively lower tuition fees than other international schools. For expatriate children who do not know any chinese, they certainly have fewer chocies. The establishment of ESF was originally aimed at providing affordable education to these children. It is reasonable that priority is given to these children under such circumstance. That's why I consider Cat 1 and Cat 2 classification is fairer from a broad perspective.

Right now, the Cat 1 and Cat 2 classification system is cancelled. Together with this, the targets of the ESF has been changed - to provide education to children who who can be benefited with English teaching medium. It is against the original purpose of the establishment of ESF. How about those children whose mother tongue is french or Japanese or korean while they also know English? I think the ESF owes an explanation to the LegCo with its change of its target while still getting the subvention.

Regarding the interview process, ESF has been adopting a non-selective approach. The interview is to screen out those who cannot understand or express themselves in simple English instead of picking clever kids. If the interview approch is to pick clever students or students who can speak fluent english, do we still agree that our kids should be deprived of the rights to attend school just because they are not smart enough or cannot talk in perfect english at the age of 4? I feel sad if the ESF interview becomes another cruel battlefield for our small kids in the same way as most local schools are now running.

Finally, without the Cat 1 and Cat 2 classification, some local chinese think that we are given a higher chance to get in. Without clear selection criteria, we can never a have a good guess of the chance of our kids to get a place.

作者: davidgorman 時間: 13-2-17 18:09

本帖最後由 davidgorman 於 13-2-17 21:54 編輯

Hedgies 發表於 13-2-5 14:12
回復 konimama 的帖子

Thanks! Does this mean that I need to attend the parent interview too?? If so, this would seem a bit strange as my other kid is already studying there..

The new policy will not affect you. Therefore, you don't need to attend the parent interview.

Below is the very first part taken from the letter, for your quick reference.

"To: All Parents of ESF International Kindergartens

Dear Parent,

ESF announces new admissions policy

I am writing to you about ESF’s new admissions policy which will be effective from August 2013 for entry into ESF schools* in August 2014. This applies only to students new to the ESF system and will not affect any current kindergarten students, siblings of current ESF students and students who are going from ESF’s primary Year 6 to secondary Year 7. Subject to maintaining the policy on priority groups, applicants who are currently on the wait list will not be affected and their standing in the queue will be preserved until their wait list status expires. ..."

You will follow the old policy inspired by the following statements taken from ESF website, which is still able to be found in http://www.esf.edu.hk/our-schools today.

"ESF schools receive a subsidy from the Hong Kong Government to provide an education for English speaking children who can not access the local system. Our schools are not selective: admission depends above all on the student's ability to benefit from an ESF education.

..."

For children who cannot access the local system and / or in your case,
1. The focus is always on your child only, not the parent.
2. ESF schools are not selective. As long as your child can understand and speak simple English, they will take him / her.
3. ESF is not a school specialized to further improve student's English skill. Therefore, children with native / fluent English is not required. In fact, English is nothing more than a medium for communication in ESF.

歡迎光臨教育王國 (/)