教育王國
標題: IB一條龍的迷思 [打印本頁]
作者: clara1477 時間: 12-11-6 12:33 標題: IB一條龍的迷思
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/supplement/culture/art/20121104/18056587
作者: manstap 時間: 12-11-6 13:32 標題: FRW Apple Daily
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作者: lui 時間: 12-11-6 15:07
manstap 發表於 12-11-6 13:32 
剛剛完成了一個關於國際文憑課程（IB）的專題報道，一直以為自己當了五年IB家長，理應對這題目手到拿來， ...
多謝你的分享.你沒有當局者迷,非常可喜.
我小女兒剛1歲,大女10歲.
我們一直就小女是否讀國際學校作資料搜集.原本沒有理會IB不IB.
還差點想大女也轉讀IB學校.他現在那所是行IBDP.心想想銜接好應找間有MYP的.
最近認識了一位教育工作者,在討論選什麼國際學校時,他不認同MYP/PYP.
說根基不好,要在外補習,那刻把我嚇倒.國際學校學費不平,還在外補這補那.
還不如走回傳統?IB補習費也不平.我再與其他家長討論,結果如你所說,根基危危乎.
而且很多學校是新辦,老師數目及經驗是關鍵.
說到這裡,我唯有多做功課,再看看情況如何.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-6 15:15
For me, the attractiveness of IB is not just the degree and getting a good score. It is also its way of learning through inquiry. For a student who went to a local school and then switches over to IBDP, can one still pick up inquiry-based learning? Is it too late? Or is there an appropriate age at which such switch should happen?
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-11-6 16:23 標題: 回覆：HKTHK 的帖子
You can review HKUGA from IB approach to NSS, and DBS, LPCUWC from local curriculum to IBDP. CSS from MYP to IBDP.
No fixed path.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-6 16:42
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Unfortunately, I don't know any students at those schools who are close to the IB DP stage. Anyone has experience transitioning a child from a local school to an IB secondary school?
Even for CIS, I think they accept a number of students from local schools as well. At their information session, they said only about 40% of the graduating class started from Grade 1 and went straight through.
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-6 17:31 標題: 引用：You+can+review+HKUGA+from+IB+approach+to
原帖由 ANChan59 於 12-11-06 發表
You can review HKUGA from IB approach to NSS, and DBS, LPCUWC from local curriculum to IBDP. CSS fro ...
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-11-6 19:54
shadeslayer 發表於 12-11-6 17:31 
There are ESF schools and other schools doing GCSE before IBDP. They seem to be fine too.
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-6 21:56
ANChan59 發表於 12-11-6 19:54
Agree, I can't see only IB has critical thinking this type of attributes.
作者: DonaldTsang 時間: 12-11-6 22:02 標題: 回覆：IB一條龍的迷思
樓主的分享非常好，非常感謝，因為我也為我Bb在想這問題，未有這答案前，我也是迷惑的！
作者: yaulinda 時間: 12-11-6 22:53 標題: 回覆：IB一條龍的迷思
一八十後Canadian born Chinese 同事，具IB出身的優點：好奇心重、肯學肯問、見識也廣，可是也讓我親身體會到IB的確有根底唔扎實的可能性。（我只識這一個是IB畢業而已，未必代表其他IB學生）
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-6 22:57
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Can you go into a bit more detail on why you think the foundation is not as strong? What are the things that make you think that? And do you find that a large short-coming?
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-6 23:13
yaulinda 發表於 12-11-6 22:53
一八十後Canadian born Chinese 同事，具IB出身的優點：好奇心重、肯學肯問、見識也廣，可是也讓我親身體會 ...
作者: yaulinda 時間: 12-11-6 23:24 標題: 回覆：shadeslayer 的帖子
的確中了你所列職業其一
作者: clara1477 時間: 12-11-6 23:33 標題: 引用：For+me,+the+attractiveness+of+IB+is+not+
原帖由 HKTHK 於 12-11-06 發表
For me, the attractiveness of IB is not just the degree and getting a good score. It is also its wa ...
作者: yaulinda 時間: 12-11-6 23:34 標題: 回覆：HKTHK 的帖子
1：請舉例指出同一問題，會有那些可行方案--) 答得很好。
2：請詳細說明某某方法，詳盡運用步驟如何--) 答得不好。
不知是人的問題，還是課程的問題。
(據我所知，她的成績相當好，但是個人原因，我不特別喜歡她，這或引致我的觀點具偏見）
作者: poonseelai 時間: 12-11-7 00:00
I discussed brieflly a couple of days ago this topic with the principal of my daughters' school. He said no matter one takes GSCE or MYP, there will still be a big gap with IBDP. The reason is that IBDP is really really difficult. One of the advantages of MYP is that the assessment criterion used is the same as that of IBDP, and therefore there is no need for students to take time to adapt to a new system.
One area of MYP that I like is the emphasis on reflection. Students are required to reflect on projects/homework completed. It helps them to reflect on stuff that they have done well and that needs improvement.
作者: licpd 時間: 12-11-7 01:12
isnt IB MYP or PYP is a structure not a curriculum? ie, it is simply a structure around which to build school's curriculum. If the curriculum in a IB school is lacking academic rigour then that might be the fault of the school not neccesarily the IB program itself? There are IS around the world where students have good IB results and the students come throught its own MYP not IGCSE
作者: poonseelai 時間: 12-11-7 09:04
licpd 發表於 12-11-7 01:12
isnt IB MYP or PYP is a structure not a curriculum? ie, it is simply a structure around which to bui ...
I think you are right. MYP has external moderation to check whether the school is on the right track. There is no moderation in PYP, so my daughter's school let the students attend the International School Assessment to have sort of a benchmark for reference.
In interpreting the IB results, perhaps one should also consider whether a school let all their students take IBDP. In my daughter's school, as long as the students pass MYP (ie get at least 28 points out of 56) they can progress to IBDP. Students who are marginally below the pass mark may do IBDP but they know they have to work extremely hard. I heard of cases where such students do make lots and lots of progress in a short period of time.
I believe every system has its own pros and cons. It is important for students to try to make the best out of the system they choose. As a PYP and MYP parent for 8 eights, I am still learning how to work together with my daughters.
作者: Babybaby2011 時間: 12-11-7 09:46 標題: 引用：樓主的分享非常好，非常感謝，因為我也為我
原帖由 DonaldTsang 於 12-11-06 發表
樓主的分享非常好，非常感謝，因為我也為我Bb在想這問題，未有這答案前，我也是迷惑的！
...
作者: cherubic 時間: 12-11-7 10:20
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Hi poonseelai,
Can you share with us what is the major difference between PYP and MYP? I heard that MYP students are extremely busy, and am wondering if it is worth proceeding to MYP given some of the adverse comments. Thanks a lot.
作者: licpd 時間: 12-11-7 10:36
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what I tend to think is the academic rigor of an IB school could be just as good as a traditional school and may depend on how well the school teaches it just like non-IB schools. I've observed how PYP class is conducted at my daughter's class. In terms of knowledge content, i havent noticed they would be learning less than traditional schools but the methods of teaching would be different as one would expect.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 12-11-7 11:42
cherubic 發表於 12-11-7 10:20
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Hi poonseelai,
Quite a big difference.
PYP is unit based. There will be about 6 units a years (e.g who we are? where are we?). The units are the same for each year but the contents would be different. Learning will be conducted around the unit. There are separate classes for Math in my daugthers' school. No examination in PYP. The IBO does not allow any examination or giving marks to students in PYP.
MYP is subject based. There are eight subjects: Eng, Chi, Math, Science, PE, Technology, Arts/Drama/Music, Humanity. Summative assessment twice a year, and formative assessments throughout the year. From what I observe from my year 8 and year 6 daughters, I would not say the academic level of MYP is low. I also heard parents say that GSCE is far too easy but I cannot comment on this as I have no exposure to this.
Honestly PYP is happy time for students, but MYP is very demanding. Some students (and even parents) may not be aware of the change and may continue to "hea" for quite sometime in MYP, and this will soon be reflected in their report cards.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 12-11-7 12:16
IBDP students are required to write a theory of knowledge essay (between 1200 and 1600 words) on one of the 6 titles prescribed by IBO. Below is 2 of the prescribed titles for 2013:
1. In what ways may disagreement aid the pursuit of knowledge in the natural and human sciences?
2. "Only seeing general patterns can give us knowledge. only seeing particular examples can give us understanding." To what extent do you agree with these assertions?
I find these really really difficult.
The essay wil be marked based on 4 assessment criteria. If a IBDP student want to get high mark, he/she needs to know exactly what should be covered in the essay.
The MYP follows the same system and the MYP students will get used to the DP assessment method.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-7 13:05
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I like those questions! Thought provoking and no cookie cutter answers.
My kids are too very far away from IBDP. What I worry about most is the gaps that they will have to jump through from MYP to DP. DP seems to be the equivalent if not sometimes more difficult than AP courses in US high schools. So should be at first year college level.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 12-11-7 13:35
HKTHK 發表於 12-11-7 13:05
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I like those questions! Thought provoking and no cookie cutter answers.
This is my concern too! I heard comments that DP students find 1st year university easy (hope this is true).
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-7 13:38
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More time to socialize, make friends, adjust to university and enjoy the experience!
作者: cherubic 時間: 12-11-7 13:41
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The questions are good but very difficult to most students. I am sure those who could answer well this kind of questions would do very well in the University. The question is how to train them at DP stage to answer this kind of questions.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 12-11-7 13:41
licpd 發表於 12-11-7 10:36
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what I tend to think is the academic rigor of an IB school could be just as ...
Teachers' quality does affect a lot. PYP and MYP gives certain flexibility to teachers in designing details of each unit or how a subject is to be taught. Nowadays, any IB school in HK is competing with IB schools globally in recruiting teachers.
作者: cherubic 時間: 12-11-7 13:46
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Thanks. My kid is in the final year of PYP. We have so much concern on whether he would be well in MYP. Any tips on preparing him this year?
作者: poonseelai 時間: 12-11-7 14:40
cherubic 發表於 12-11-7 13:46
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Thanks. My kid is in the final year of PYP. We have so much concern on whe ...
Hi Cherubic
I am still learning. Teachers suggest that the following would help:
1. Time management - this is very important. Teachers may give 1 or 2 weeks time for students to complete assignments/homework. Students should plan ahead and don't wait until the last minute to start working. I heard that some students, even early MYP years, work till 11 or 12 at night. In most cases it is because they have under-estimated the time required or start too late.
2. Attention in class - some students may think they can read the materials at home. That's wrong. Class time is essential. I always remind my daughters to pay attention in class.
3. Parents show interest in what they are learning. Ask them to tell you what's going on. If they can tell you clearly, that means they understand. Discuss news and current affairs with them. It is important to connect what they have learned at school to real life (again, this is not easy).
My 2 girls' main weakness is Math. One of the reasons is that they have not done enough exercises during PYP and so the foundation is not strong enough. In MYP students need to write conclusion or their observation in addition to doing the Math calculation. So, if they can finish the calculation part quicker, they have more time to do the writing. Now I buy extra exercises for them to do at home, but............. asking them to do extra work is not always easy.
作者: annie40 時間: 12-11-7 18:09
回復 manstap 的帖子
笔者分列各校的成绩比较,而做出对開辦PYP與MYP的學校,所提出根基的迷思,是有点本未倒置. 因为:
1) ESF 还是要学生修讀GCSE 是为了迎合英澳家庭的孩子往英国念大学或高中的需要.
2) ESF 和 其他一流名校的中学课程内,早已渗入不少IB MYP的学习理念和元素, 好使及早准备DP.特别是ESF, 基本是小学已有类似PYP, MYP的教材.
3) 滬江維多利亞學校，啟思中學 - 每年想跳槽转校往ESF, 和其他IS或名校的数量不少, 留下的可能只有少部分是精英, 这样的不利条件下而怀疑其成绩不彰的理由是PYP與MYP的课程问题,是非常武断.
4) 漢基國際學校 - 无论人才,钱财, 是上上条件, 好成绩是正常现象.
5) IB一條龍的啟新書院是新校, 主要卖点是中文好, 开校只不过是七八年, 孩子不是从小一学PYP MYP 的,学生种类还是五湖四海的, 即时要跟传统念IS 或名校生比拼成败.甚为不公.
6) 还有United World College Singapore 是从小一PYP, MYP 开始的, 成绩好到不得了. （比ＬＰＣＵＷ更好）
7) IB名校李寶椿聯合世界書院的学生是经过挑选, 入得去的已经是非常合适念IB DP 的, 这点能力不是天生的, 反而是受原来学校和家庭教育所芬陶的
综合而言, 真的不认同笔者提出各校的成绩差异是PYP MYP 根本不稳之说.
注:本人並没有孩子念ＰＹＰ ＭＹＰ
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-11-7 19:21
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對生菓報的報導，不用太上心。
作者: poonseelai 時間: 12-11-7 19:33
annie40 發表於 12-11-7 18:09
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作者: xx33 時間: 12-11-7 20:59
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作者: bigbighei 時間: 12-11-7 21:48 標題: 回覆：lui 的帖子
其實咩叫根基扎實呢？我唔明？
作者: DonaldTsang 時間: 12-11-7 21:59 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+DonaldTsang+於+12-11-06+發
原帖由 Babybaby2011 於 12-11-07 發表
I have the same thinking too! Thanks for sharing!
作者: DonaldTsang 時間: 12-11-7 22:04 標題: 引用：IBDP+students+are+required+to+write+a+th
原帖由 poonseelai 於 12-11-07 發表
IBDP students are required to write a theory of knowledge essay (between 1200 and 1600 words) on one ...
作者: licpd 時間: 12-11-7 22:36
The way IB approaches learning is different from traditonal teaching. Just want to share some blogs I came across on how IB teachers teach IB subjects. it might be eye opening for people from traditional school.
http://inquiryblog.wordpress.com ... g-and-beyond-facts/
http://authenticinquirymaths.blogspot.com.au/
作者: poonseelai 時間: 12-11-7 22:55
licpd 發表於 12-11-7 22:36
The way IB approaches learning is different from traditonal teaching. Just want to share some blogs ...
Thanks for sharing. Any parents interested to know more about PYP should have a look at the blog.
作者: JYFC 時間: 12-11-8 12:17
Thanks for sharing.. I was very interesting.
licpd 發表於 12-11-7 22:36
The way IB approaches learning is different from traditonal teaching. Just want to share some blogs ...
作者: annie40 時間: 12-11-8 12:30
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Sorry for not concerning the feeling of current students and parents. However, it's cruel reality that we do comparsion at all times. 如果孩子有能力, 人往高处望是常理, 而有更多资源的好学校提供offer, 谁也心动的. 当然会否真的跳槽, 似乎个别情况吧! 这点是常理. You can say that's my wild guess and imagination.
注: 以上全是个人的意见, 我没直接认识任何这两间学校的家长们.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-11-8 13:18 標題: 引用：Quote:HKTHK+發表於+12-11-7+13:05+回復+po
原帖由 poonseelai 於 12-11-07 發表
This is my concern too! I heard comments that DP students find 1st year university easy (hope this ...
You can check with Big 3 in HK, IBDP is treated as advance standing and has credit transfer, so the student can cut short 4 years to 3 years. It's only valid for AP, AL and IBDP.
作者: swat 時間: 12-11-8 13:57
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For IBDp, perhaps only HL may get credit exemption?
作者: slamai 時間: 12-11-8 15:22
The value of IB education is not only the wide acceptance of DP by universities worldwide but also the inquiry-based learning which is beneficial to the development of the child's mind. The latter is the sooner the better.
作者: slamai 時間: 12-11-8 16:02
The essence of IB education is to learn how to learn and filter useful information from irrelevant data in this age of information explosion. The indirect effect of dispensing with repetitive homework and assessment preparation (re: PYP) is more quality time for reading (and thinking). Unfortunately, most parents (including myself sometimes) look for short-term results instead of long-term benefits.
作者: poonseelai 時間: 12-11-8 16:07
slamai 發表於 12-11-8 16:02
The essence of IB education is to learn how to learn and filter useful information from irrelevant d ...
Cannot agree more.
作者: mirage 時間: 12-11-12 12:26
I thought for professional subjects like medicine, pharmacy and dentist which require memorizing lots of things, study in IB school or traditional school will make no difference.
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-12 12:50 標題: 引用：I+thought+for+professional+subjects+like
原帖由 mirage 於 12-11-12 發表
I thought for professional subjects like medicine, pharmacy and dentist which require memorizing lo ...
In terms of shaping the students to be critical thinkers and problem solvers, appreciative of global culture and forces that are at work globally? No, they are not the same.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-11-12 13:24
I read this in Apple Daily yesterday.
".....至於耶魯校長Levin，左丁山印象最深嘅係佢在港講過：耶魯大學電腦系學生讀完四年畢業，就發覺佢地所學知識全部落後晒，在職業上無大用，唯一可以一生受用嘅就係在耶魯學懂獨立思維，批判性思考！........."
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/su ... t/20121111/18063199
作者: mirage 時間: 12-11-12 13:33
No difference after getting into medical school and study. IMHO, studying in traditional school may have little advantage in written exam as they are accustomed to memorizing lots of information in a short time and then have a "wordbal" diarrhoea during the exam. Then in senior medical year when they need to have short case and long case, IB student may be more presentable during exam, but when those professors asked those student deeper on like " What are the differential diagnosis of this patient ? " those IB student may not be able to give more than 5.
And if they work in HK after graduated, I think public hospital welcome a machine-like doctor to work under department policy without error instead of a doctor with critical thinking and good problem solving who will have his own treatment plan violating departmental protocols.
And all above just my subjective postulation and please dont dig into details . I just want to say under current situation, there is no benefits to pay more to study in IB school if your targets are those subjects.
Hope all of our kid have good health and can have enjoyable school life!
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-12 13:39 標題: 引用：No+difference+after+getting+into+medical
原帖由 mirage 於 12-11-12 發表
No difference after getting into medical school and study. IMHO, studying in traditional school may ...
作者: mirage 時間: 12-11-13 08:15
Medic and dentist only have two grade when graduate in hk, pass or first honour . Those who got first hon will not the one who become a professor in teaching hospital while those who need supple or viva in exam may be the one who debut lots of paper in the future .
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-11-13 10:07 標題: 回覆：mirage 的帖子
Interesting, why you say so?
Not the best become academic? Just like not the best graduates as teachers in HK.
作者: mirage 時間: 12-11-13 12:14
ANChan59 發表於 12-11-13 10:07
Interesting, why you say so?
Not the best become academic? Just like not the best graduates as teac ...
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-11-13 12:49
mirage 發表於 12-11-13 12:14
Of course there are still some first honor graduate will continue to work in teaching hospital but I ...
In public hospital or medical school, I can't see you ave time to come to EK.
作者: annie40 時間: 12-11-13 14:48
回復 mirage 的帖子
I thought for professional subjects like medicine, pharmacy and dentist which require memorizing lots of things, study in IB school or traditional school will make no difference.
*** **** ***
追求知识是一种快乐, 把事情做到也是快乐, 强记专科学问去帮助别人是另类快乐, 如果看不见,感受不到心灵修养提升时的喜悦,很可惜啊! Science 不是死物, 最终必然与Art & Philosophy,Religious 混和一体, 达到至高境界的,
没有点儿感性的心,很难再上层楼吧!
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-13 21:04
annie40 發表於 12-11-13 14:48
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Science 不是死物, 最终必然与Art & Philosophy,Religious 混和一体, 达到至高境界的,
This is so true. All PhDs, science or not, are doctor of philosophy.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-11-13 23:05
回復 annie40 的帖子
If you have time, take a PhD for fun.
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