教育王國

標題: 香港的直資私立學校會否超英趕美？ [打印本頁]
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-15 16:12     標題: 香港的直資私立學校會否超英趕美？

有報導有名人透過中介人捐款哈佛但仔女不獲取錄而怒告對方。香港既直资私校同時有收生自主權和接受捐款,會不會早晚淪落到此地步？
作者: mirage    時間: 12-10-15 16:31

印象中十幾年前有中學有教師因此坐監，但忘記那一間。
作者: mirage    時間: 12-10-15 16:41

http://www.singtao.com/archive/f ... ord1=&keyword2= 原來是津校拔小。
作者: Charlotte_mom    時間: 12-10-15 16:46

唔好話我陰謀論, 我相信其實不嬲都發生緊, 不過我地呢D小市民唔知姐
作者: sheffield    時間: 12-10-15 16:53

當然有啦！我身邊的人都有發生過…有人介紹再做donation，半年後插班入學...不過應唔會好多掛…
作者: hophopbunny    時間: 12-10-15 16:56

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作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-15 17:22

sheffield 發表於 12-10-15 16:53
當然有啦！我身邊的人都有發生過…有人介紹再做donation，半年後插班入學...不過應唔會好多掛… ...
希望不會是官津校吧？
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-15 17:28

hophopbunny 發表於 12-10-15 16:56
美國那case是告個consultant，根本沒有捐獻比學校wor

捐獻比學校從來全世界都有，點淪落法？我有留意樓主 ...
我諗你係性本善論和理想主意者。我只相信機制和誘因,有不完善既機制和誘因,這種事情終歸會發生,時間既問題。
作者: fsforth    時間: 12-10-15 17:30     標題: 回覆：lawsonmoon 的帖子

大陸化之後應該會更嚴重。



作者: hophopbunny    時間: 12-10-15 17:32

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作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-15 19:07

hophopbunny 發表於 12-10-15 17:32
津校都可以捐獻wor，你捐比鮮魚行都得。

多謝樓主讚美！
我都係講緊捐款入學尼D不道德行為。行賄是犯法,已有機制嚴懲,冇乜好講。
津校可自主收生既位很少很少,也冇乜好講吧！
作者: sheffield    時間: 12-10-15 22:37

回復 lawsonmoon 的帖子

不，是私校。
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-16 14:30

本帖最後由 lawsonmoon 於 12-10-16 14:45 編輯
hophopbunny 發表於 12-10-15 17:32
津校都可以捐獻wor，你捐比鮮魚行都得。

多謝樓主讚美！

君不見spcc和DGJS小一申請已收集一些常人覺得同收生冇必要收集既資料(要申請人提供正本水電媒單供核對所申報住址)；你試吓問他們資料有何用途？點解唔收生後才要求核對？
Why 其他學校包括男拔不會核對申報既地址,你鐘意報山頂又得,劏房又得？誠實對自己既都會有個答案。
作者: sheffield    時間: 12-10-16 14:53

其實呢樣野都好普通…名門望族的小朋友們都在明校讀，係咪真係個個出自名門的小朋友都係咁叻，經過一輪interview之後擊敗其他對手入讀名校呢？！再者，sponsorship對學校來說是非常重要…學校是社會的縮影，每個人/學生都有其功能…咁講有點灰，但好現實…
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-16 15:13

sheffield 發表於 12-10-16 14:53
其實呢樣野都好普通…名門望族的小朋友們都在明校讀，係咪真係個個出自名門的小朋友都係咁叻，經過一輪inte ...
所以盡管冇機會受惠,我仍然非常非常欣賞那些已經是名校,但仍拒絶轉私校直資既辦學團體！such as la salle, wah yan, marymount, maryknoll, st mary etc. 排名不分先後。
作者: chunyatmama    時間: 12-10-16 15:18

lawsonmoon 發表於 12-10-16 15:13
所以盡管冇機會受惠,我仍然非常非常欣賞那些已經是名校,但仍拒絶轉私校直資既辦學團體！such as la salle,  ...

One of the reasons for those tranditional schools do not want to change to DSS or private school is that they have no sufficient fund to maintain their campuse.  MCS is one of those.  For subsidy school, they can apply funding from the Government to maintain the campus.
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-16 15:32

本帖最後由 lawsonmoon 於 12-10-17 14:10 編輯
chunyatmama 發表於 12-10-16 15:18
One of the reasons for those tranditional schools do not want to change to DSS or private school is ...

you really think that is a reason!? dbs is charging about $4k per month. you really think that all the schools i mentioned above cannot take enough students if they change to dss and charge $4k per month!? you know a whole bunch of parents are paying over $4k per month just for eca!
then you tell me why XXX can while la salle cannot if that is the reason? why YYY can while st mary cannot?
作者: chunyatmama    時間: 12-10-16 15:50

lawsonmoon 發表於 12-10-16 15:32
you really think that is a reason!? dbs is charging about $4k per month. you really think that all  ...
Relax.  That is ONE of the reasons and that's real.

I believe most if not all the Cathelic schools do not switch to DSS or private schoosl are influenced by the Church.  You agree or not, that's one of the reasons.  To change or not to change is not just click to do it.  When eveyone concentrate on gaining money, you have to see various sides as well.  Besides, $4K or even $7K per month as mentioned by you, to some people is huge some per month while some think its value for money.  Besides, all DSS are required to provide financial aid to those students in need so that less well off students can still enjoy a "fair" opportunities.

Originally, wanna talk about the other famous subsidy school, but I strike them all out.  I do not want to be quoted.  


作者: GHcat    時間: 12-10-16 22:34     標題: 回覆：lawsonmoon 的帖子

I don't want people to involve my Alma Mater in their argument.
Good Hope changed to DSS because the primary section is private and EDB said that we could take in our own primary students only if both sections were of the same mode, so Secondary has to be half private.



作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-17 00:06

GHcat 發表於 12-10-16 22:34
I don't want people to involve my Alma Mater in their argument.
Good Hope changed to DSS because the ...
it`s funny what make you feel that people need to follow your "instruction". btw, we are mainly talking about primary schools here, you should have told us why good hope primary changed to private school on day one.
作者: hophopbunny    時間: 12-10-17 00:33

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作者: GHcat    時間: 12-10-17 00:40

回復 lawsonmoon 的帖子

I did not give anyone any instructions. I just stated my feelings.
Good Hope primary has never changed its status. When it was founded about 58 years ago, it was a private school. Since then, the school had always applied for subsidized school but was not granted by EDB...

作者: ABC-DAD    時間: 12-10-17 00:52

本帖最後由 ABC-DAD 於 12-10-17 00:53 編輯

除左官校，其他辦學團體或多或少都有慕捐籌款等活動，唔覺得要無限上綱。唔通家長自己夾錢起學校都算得理虧，我見過辦學團體少部份嘅歷史，無人捐獻﹐好似成唔到事噃。保良局都係咁成立嘅喎。淪落？田家炳，呂明才，林𧅰等等都係好受人尊敬嘅教育家。好多有須要嘅人受惠呀。接受捐款有一定嘅程序，濫用捐款又係另一個題目，巧立名目容易，古道熱腸嘅唔多。
作者: ANChan59    時間: 12-10-17 00:55

ABC-DAD 發表於 12-10-17 00:52
除左官校，其他辦學團體或多或少都有慕捐籌款等活動，唔覺得要無限上綱。唔通家長自己夾錢起學校都算得理虧 ...
Agree with your analysis and comment.
作者: mirage    時間: 12-10-17 07:42

If we talk about fee remissin in dss. The EDB report few years ago have hinted there are only single digit student applying fee remission in SPCC . Can anyone tell me why?
作者: ANChan59    時間: 12-10-17 08:15

本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 12-10-17 10:54 編輯
mirage 發表於 12-10-17 07:42
If we talk about fee remissin in dss. The EDB report few years ago have hinted there are only single ...

I am not sure about SPCC, but for DBS due to misinterpretation of EDB on fee remission ruling. Originally, EDB interpreted the ruling of fee remission only primary fee for primary, secondary fee for secondary. Even all secondary money for fee remission are used up, but the school can't use the surplus of primary fee for secondary students. After releasing the audit report, EDB changed the mind and allowed the school to use the surplus for secondary students.

I guess similar reason for some DSS schools. Now, it's not an issue. If you want to blame someone, the recommenation is EDB, not DSS.

作者: eyschoi    時間: 12-10-17 08:19

回復 hophopbunny 的帖子

Good point. Agree.
作者: eyschoi    時間: 12-10-17 08:35

Voluntary donation to school by parents is always not an issue but donation to school in order to get a place has moral issue.  This will generally be not common in western countries but is not rare with Chinese although I am a Chinese.  Finding short cut may be a genetic characteristics of Chinese but it all depends on how people use this characteristics.
作者: sheffield    時間: 12-10-17 09:17

其實樓主都冇話收捐款有問題，只是收左人捐款就要比個位人…好似買賣咁…
作者: ABC-DAD    時間: 12-10-17 09:34

本帖最後由 ABC-DAD 於 12-10-17 10:04 編輯

借論語一用，“有国有家者，不患寡而患不均，不患贫而患不安。盖均无贫，和无寡，安无倾。夫如是，故远人不服，则修文德以来之。既来之，则安之。”这里“不患寡而患不均，不患贫而患不安”古本有误，应是“不患贫而患不均，不患寡而患不安”，因为“贫”与“均’是指财富，“寡”与“安”是指人口，下文所说“均无贫”与“和无寡”可以为证。颛臾是鲁君（先王）封的‘东蒙主”，如果季氏抢占来，必然引起社会动荡，就要“不安”。接着，孔子批评冉有和季路，“远人不服而不能来也，邦分崩离析而不能守也，而谋动干戈于邦内”是错误的。文章结尾一句“吾恐季孙之忧，不在颛臾而在萧墙之内也”，表现了孔子高度的政治敏感和政治见地。孔子已经看穿季氏讨伐颛臾的最终目的其实是要削弱鲁国的实力，以至篡夺鲁国的政权，从这个意义上看，李氏的行为只是一种试探性的武力示威，因而最后一句道破了季氏的阴谋，一语中的。

意义：不必担心财富不多，只需担心财富不均；不必担心人民太少，只需担心不安定。
中大䌓體字(按右進入連結)

作者: hophopbunny    時間: 12-10-17 09:47

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作者: mirage    時間: 12-10-17 11:48

hophopbunny 發表於 12-10-17 09:47
ABC-DAD  只係咁樣演繹，對捐款人的動機同善意都扭曲得好緊要，有舊生可以捐款同俾自己仔女入讀嘛，如果小 ...
It is because Mr Li request his body guard to go into SPCC to protect/look after his grandson/granddaughter but SPCC rejected, so they went to CIS finally with the body guard with them every day.

To ABD-DAD, I dont object any DSS school who is keen on accepting kids with good family background.
作者: hophopbunny    時間: 12-10-17 11:54

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作者: tumtum    時間: 12-10-17 13:04

hophopbunny 發表於 12-10-17 11:54
但照我所知唔讀之後都有捐，有朋友話去年學校news letter之類有提該學年捐成6位定7位數字 ...
Li Ka Shing's sons both went to SPCC, didn't they donate a whole building to the school last year or sth like that?

I was told that the reason why schools such as La Salle, MCS etc. did not convert to DSS was because they are Catholic schools and the Catholic church is against changing to the DSS system as it will mean favoring only children who can afford to pay school fees.

作者: hophopbunny    時間: 12-10-17 13:12

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作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-17 13:41

GHcat 發表於 12-10-17 00:40
回復 lawsonmoon 的帖子

I did not give anyone any instructions. I just stated my feelings.
i would say SORRY to you as it is a misunderstanding by me about gh primary. i will change my quote and not using gh as example.
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-17 13:46

tumtum 發表於 12-10-17 13:04
Li Ka Shing's sons both went to SPCC, didn't they donate a whole building to the school last year or ...
對,應該是教區覺得與其辦學目的相違背,並不是什麼校舍maintenance fees 問題。
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-17 13:55

hophopbunny 發表於 12-10-17 00:33
看來樓主都是理想主意者。

針無兩頭利。名校大前提都是保持學校成就， 以end point 來計。先唔好講錢，因 ...
對,我骨子裏係理想主意者,所以才有這樣既擔心。名津校西走人我反而覺得冇問題,跟唔上唔等於學生差,只是教育方式不適合,at least,學生有平等入學機會。亞張五常大教授係HK教育方式被叫做差學生,去西方學育就如魚得水！
作者: eyschoi    時間: 12-10-17 13:55

I have not said or meant to imply all donation from parents who do not currently have children in that school is for a return of being admitted to the school.  Only doner knows his/her intention and I believe most doners are voluntary.
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-17 14:06

eyschoi 發表於 12-10-17 08:35
Voluntary donation to school by parents is always not an issue but donation to school in order to ge ...
我題目都係講緊後者,但佢地係反而用前者上岡上線,大造文章。哈佛既case,以前覺得係傳説,依家知道是事實。
同樣HK現時没有完善既機制,又同時存在誘因,why現時既myth,將來一定唔會變成truth？
作者: ABC-DAD    時間: 12-10-17 14:15

本帖最後由 ABC-DAD 於 12-10-17 14:26 編輯

實事求事，好多宗教團體在早期在港辦學校，係做福社會，所以有政府撥地佢地，有自己嘅校舍同宗教建築物，而LS當年就同長江有協議，用原來嘅地交換重建現今嘅校舍。講吓係咪要讀直資交學費係影響到有須要嘅同學入唔到去讀書？我好懷疑？有無同學考到，申請減免被Reject 呢？定係聽人講你又講。天主教學校有無收捐獻我唔插咀啦，教區有無接受捐獻呢？唔好用咁狹隘的角度去睇，團體善用資源，社會得益，咪好囉。
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-17 14:19

ABC-DAD 發表於 12-10-17 00:52
除左官校，其他辦學團體或多或少都有慕捐籌款等活動，唔覺得要無限上綱。唔通家長自己夾錢起學校都算得理虧 ...
題目係講緊捐錢換入學,校內捐款是自願,冇乜好講。隔離post話spcc籌款唔夠,校長當學生面講説話俾學生聽,如家長覺得冇問題,關我地咩事呢！
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-17 14:46

本帖最後由 lawsonmoon 於 12-10-17 14:53 編輯
lawsonmoon 發表於 12-10-16 14:30
君不見spcc和DGJS小一申請已收集一些常人覺得同收生冇必要收集既資料(要申請人提供正本水電媒單供核對所申 ...

Hi QQLAU,
Well,我真係唔知我諗多咗or你冇諗到嘢。尼D個别例子,如果有特異功能,俾埋獎學金都仲有。

成日俾人話係貴族學校既男拔都唔會check人住址！
你揾專人面試時check人住址要check二三千個,你註册時才check只需check二三百個,名校唔係蠢,點解呢？

再問自己點解要check住址？係咪真既住址和我揀學生又有咪關係呢？




作者: ABC-DAD    時間: 12-10-17 14:48

本帖最後由 ABC-DAD 於 12-10-17 14:52 編輯

spcc同spccps ？係有分別，隔離「講」咩，關我呢個【外人】咩事，我會尊重當事小朋友家長感受，同留意自己說話唔好失分寸。我未知你所講嘅隔離講嘅事。你講捐錢換入學唔係自願，定係咩立場？【香港的直資私立學校會否超英趕美？】呢個題目我見到。咁提中嘅英美大學有無錢換入學先，我睇新聞係講事主都花成千多萬幾唔成功喎？因為無呢回事，有咩好講呢，點超英趕美呢？
作者: cykk    時間: 12-10-17 17:51

本帖最後由 cykk 於 12-10-17 17:52 編輯

以我所知spcc只會收舊生和現有學生的捐款，與學校無關係人仕想借捐錢買學位，唔好意思，學校是不會接受的。
作者: smallfoothk    時間: 12-10-17 18:02

我朋友幾十年前小學申請,要提名人(舊生/家長)才接受申請,最後都要被$人做.....
作者: cykk    時間: 12-10-17 18:08

lawsonmoon 發表於 12-10-17 14:19
題目係講緊捐錢換入學,校內捐款是自願,冇乜好講。隔離post話spcc籌款唔夠,校長當學生面講説話俾學生聽,如家 ...

其實校長所講是今年比去年捐款少幾十萬，如果學校真係可以賣學位，駛鬼當學生面講咩，開價五十萬一個位都大把人爭啦！
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-17 18:15

cykk 發表於 12-10-17 17:51
以我所知spcc只會收舊生和現有學生的捐款，與學校無關係人仕想借捐錢買學位，唔好意思，學校是不會接受的。 ...
如果係真的話,尼D咪係好既機制防止人做壞事囉。
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-17 18:27

cykk 發表於 12-10-17 18:08
其實校長所講是今年比去年捐款少幾十萬，如果學校真係可以賣學位，駛鬼當學生面講咩，開價五十萬一個位都 ...
0h,尼個post係講緊校内捐款,不關買位事。佢地討論緊是否應對學生们講D咁既嘢。佢地覺得凯撒歸凱撤,俗語話冤有頭,债有主,唔應該對小學生講D咁既嘢喎。
作者: steven819    時間: 12-10-17 19:03

I think every school has their own tradition and produce students with different character. Every school has its own supporter. I don't understand why lawsonmoon is so against spcc. Also whether a school want to change to DSS has its own reason. Unlike US universities which are private school, they do accept some donation in exchange for a place. Otherwise they won't have enough funding for research. However, it cannot be the case in HK. DSS is also under government supervision as they receive same amount of subsidiary from the government.  I don't think anyone can donate a place in DSS, be it SPCC or DBS. Also checking the address while handling the application form is a very normal procedure. Many SPCC students live in 'normal home'. The address definitely is not a criteria for selection,
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-17 21:47

本帖最後由 lawsonmoon 於 12-10-17 21:51 編輯
steven819 發表於 12-10-17 19:03
I think every school has their own tradition and produce students with different character. Every sc ...

i cannot agree with you that "checking the address while handling the application form is a very normal procedure". how many dss and private schools in hk? there are only these 2 schools namely spcc and dgjs will check your address proof.  i hope you can distinguish writing address on application form is different from cross checking your address proof by providing utilities bills! if you think 2 out of let say 100 is normal, then we might have different norms indeed.
作者: steven819    時間: 12-10-17 22:08

回復 lawsonmoon 的帖子

Obvious my norm is different from yours then. My point is that the school is not using it as a selection criteria and my point is supported by the result that the school admit a lot of students that live in 'normal house'. It's the performance of the kids that matter. BTW, when you send the application form to the government, you still need to hand in the address proof.
作者: ABC-DAD    時間: 12-10-18 02:27

我唔D明數據點來，我相信間間學校都要學生嘅回郵信封記返D資料俾學生，要帶地址證明去對會否出錯，都係保證到唔會記失。唔覺得壽辰山道地址比其他會有優先。我做過其他小學嘅小一收生義工，填錯野經常有。
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-18 15:19

ABC-DAD 發表於 12-10-18 02:27
我唔D明數據點來，我相信間間學校都要學生嘅回郵信封記返D資料俾學生，要帶地址證明去對會否出錯，都係保證 ...
数據係EK既家長confirm的。如怕寄失,應該對信封,只對報名表那信封也有可能錯。那1st對了ok啦,2nd要副校長親自對第二次,又點解呢？其實我都唔想沾污你既理想世界,我只是列出這事實,各人有各人既理解,我會尊重你既想法。
事實就真係只有這兩校做這個動作。成日俾人話貴族校既男拔都不會要求address proof。
作者: hophopbunny    時間: 12-10-18 16:48

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作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-18 17:17

本帖最後由 lawsonmoon 於 12-10-18 17:22 編輯
hophopbunny 發表於 12-10-18 16:48
QQLAU  講緊小一哦, 5、6歲的小朋友會有什麼特異功能?其實你係想表達直資名校淨係收有錢仔或是捐錢就可以讀 ...

5,6歲已經有全港分䶖泳賽獎牌了,地區名津都已经搶這些學生了(扣門位)。
没有證據顯示直資名校可捐錢買位,你不能這樣説啊！

我是説要防止這些事發生,包括完善個機制。

今日在收生前收集你的住址証明,明年可收集你的税單,他們可以説幫你對回郵信封,因税單個地址最準,冇枉管嗰喎。
作者: mirage    時間: 12-10-18 17:24

香港有貴族嗎？有錢人就好多。貴價國際學校也很多。
作者: lawsonmoon    時間: 12-10-18 17:31

steven819 發表於 12-10-17 22:08
回復 lawsonmoon 的帖子

Obvious my norm is different from yours then. My point is that the school is ...
因為政府係在憲報刋憲要收集你的住址,用途寫明係用作大抽獎(分區),你報假地址係犯法的,會被起訴啊！
這些學校會公怖收集住址證明的用途嗎？如報他人住址既後果嗎？

不可相提並論啊！
作者: hophopbunny    時間: 12-10-18 18:09

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作者: steven819    時間: 12-10-18 19:43

hophopbunny, agree with you 越講越誇張! I still don't understand why checking applicants address is such a bit deal. The point is whether they use this as one of their selection criteria. And I think neither DBS nor SPCC is a 貴族校, though both schools do have kids that come from super-rich families. Majority of students come from normal families in both schools. My impression is that both schools want smart, talented kids except that DBS prefer boys only while SPCC prefer both sexes. You can't get a place in both schools or actually any DSS schools just by donation. Both schools are very rich.
作者: cykk    時間: 12-10-19 10:40

spcc無錯係有一部分學生家景十分富裕，但也有很多中產家庭(現實係比得幾仟元學費並非基層家庭可以付擔)，富豪子弟通常是有司機接送的，全校約七成學生返放學都是坐保母車。學校要住址證明，可以有好多原因的，聽聞有老師說過學校只是唔希望家長為了孩子入讀spcc而要學生花費太多時間在交通上。



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