教育王國
標題: ISF or CDNIS? [打印本頁]
作者: liu_cmc 時間: 12-4-26 19:00 標題: ISF or CDNIS?
Hi,
ISF or CDNIS? which one will you chose?
Both are great school but I couldn't decide. Please help.
My priority is 1)Chinese/Mandarin 2) IB 3) Good teacher 4) discipline 5) sports
I have a feeling kids has less pressure and are happier in CDNIS and they have decent chinese too, can read and write chinese character but not so much in speaking Mandarin. Strong in sports which is important for boys.
I know chinese so I can help with is homework, and ISF seems to be strong in Mandarin program and good discipline. But I am worry the homework will put too much pressure for my boy and cause a lot of tension at home when I have to discipline him every night, not mention the dictations and tests every week/month.
My boy got offer from both school and I couldn't decide. pls help.
Thx!!
作者: Atticus 時間: 12-4-26 19:21
So your boy received an offer from CDNIS for Preparatory? When did you receive it? Thanks.
作者: mrshoho 時間: 12-4-26 19:49
What made you say ISF is better disciplined than CDNIS?? I personally know someone studying at ISF, I wouldn't say they are well disciplined at all... I guess parents play a stronger role than the school in terms of disciplining the child.
作者: Atticus 時間: 12-4-26 20:13 標題: 回覆：ISF or CDNIS?
Further to my question above, may I also ask when did you receive the offer (for Foundation Year I presume) from ISF? As I understand, the deadline for accepting the first batch of offers from ISF was last Friday (20 April 2011)...
作者: liu_cmc 時間: 12-4-26 21:46
I received both offer about 2-3 days ago. have you apply for 2012/13 as well?
作者: cowmoon 時間: 12-4-26 21:55
Chinese standard in ISF may be higher than CDNIS (understandable because ISF has 70% curriculum in Chinese while CDNIS has around 30%; on the other hand, the English standard of CDNIS should be higher than ISF due to the same reason). Quite some students in CDNIS need extra Chinese tutorials after school.
The workload of ISF is probably heavier than CDNIS.
I do not think that the discipline of CDNIS is worse than ISF. Most students I know in CDNIS are very well behaved.
作者: ramen 時間: 12-4-26 22:06
liu_cmc 發表於 12-4-26 21:46 
I received both offer about 2-3 days ago. have you apply for 2012/13 as well?
作者: liu_cmc 時間: 12-4-26 22:21
Thanks for your advice cowmoon, would you happen to know which school have better teacher? which school will you pick?
CDNIS call us first and then send us a letter which was received today. My boy 5 yr old is applying Prep yr 2012/13 which is not the major intake - Reception yr.
Which one will you chose? ISF or CDNIS? Have you apply any?
作者: annie40 時間: 12-4-27 15:18
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I think your son should have visited both schools. In case you're still in dieimma, you can ask your little boy's opinion. It's important to respect his viewpoint and choice. Kids are crystal clear on pretense and more wise and brave than us sometimes.
annie
作者: cowmoon 時間: 12-4-27 16:57
Personally I have close friends and relatives' kids in both schools. So from what I observed and heard, both schools are good.
You may also consider that the student mix in ISF will have more Chinese (HK, Taiwanese, Mainland Chinese) than CDNIS. And in CDNIS they have Canadian culture included in the curriculum while in ISF they teach quite a lot about Chinese culture (e.g. Chinese Kungfu / Chinese dance and 背誦唐詩). Say for Canadian passport holders CDNIS may be a preferable choice.
作者: Atticus 時間: 12-4-28 10:28 標題: 回覆：ISF or CDNIS?
liu_cmc:
If establishing a sound foundation in Mandarin/Chinese is important to you and your child, then go for ISF
作者: Atticus 時間: 12-5-8 15:12
本帖最後由 Atticus 於 12-5-8 15:17 編輯
liu_cmc:
Just out of curiosity, which school's offer did you decide to accept in the end?
作者: qq638 時間: 12-5-16 15:09
My son is in ISF. There are 3-5 homeworks everyday, more on weekend.
作者: Birkin 時間: 12-5-16 15:19
qq638 發表於 12-5-16 15:09 
My son is in ISF. There are 3-5 homeworks everyday, more on weekend.
Hi! Is your son in the Foundation Year? Are you and your son happy with ISF in general? Thanks.
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-5-16 15:19
isf 小學主要用中文教，然後每年漸進將英文加多
咁樣學中文，梗好過 cdnis
作者: Birkin 時間: 12-5-16 15:45
nintendo 發表於 12-5-16 15:19
isf 小學主要用中文教，然後每年漸進將英文加多
咁樣學中文，梗好過 cdnis
...
Yes, but the downside is the English standard (reading and writing) of ISF's lower school students may lag behind that of other international school's students...
作者: type409 時間: 12-5-18 10:35
but as what their principal said - their chinese standard is above those study in IS and english is above those in local.
every coin has 2 sides.
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-5-18 14:28
type409 發表於 12-5-18 10:35
but as what their principal said - their chinese standard is above those study in IS and english is ...
個校長要搵 pr 教教佢講野
國際學校中文水皮，本地學校英文水皮
(水皮之意，水平都只係 second language level)
搵個水皮的比，比你比嬴又點
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-5-18 15:10
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-5-18 15:11 編輯
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大哥, 如果講 "their english standard is below those study in IS and chinese is below those in local", 咁又係死喎! 真係唔知點講先啱.
作者: type409 時間: 12-5-18 15:12
He didn't say that in a public event (and i bet he won't say that in a public event) but just to a few parents while chatting about our concerns in our kids' language level. Having said that, i'm happy with the school in general.
作者: Birkin 時間: 12-5-18 15:17
type409 發表於 12-5-18 15:12
He didn't say that in a public event (and i bet he won't say that in a public event) but just to a f ...
作者: type409 時間: 12-5-18 15:30
Bravo.
I just tried to cover him up as i think i should not post sth what he said to me in person.
If he had already said so in public, then fine :)
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-5-18 16:34
本帖最後由 nintendo 於 12-5-18 16:44 編輯
bobbycheung 發表於 12-5-18 15:10
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大哥, 如果講 "their english standard is below those study in IS and chinese is ...
朋友個仔在 isf 讀過，聽過學校教學情形
如果講語文環境，基本上係 local school 一樣 ：小學行中文，中學先多 d 英文
講真，真係要比，英文未必比嬴 dgs dbs spcc 呢類學校；
至於中文，esf 好多學生 ibdp 係讀 chinese a，基本上水平同 local school 一樣
不過，可能好多家長唔會咁理智咁分析，而且，選擇學校，都有好多其他因素
最緊要係家長滿意，仔女開心
最怕人 sell 野時用其他 product 比，好冇大將之風，我會反感，唔會幫襯
未聽過法拉利 "sell 屎"，懶叻咁話比人聽佢地架車快過 civic 仔
但有 d 車就成日話自己同某架 xxx 一樣咁快
呢 d 真係舐氣
作者: Birkin 時間: 12-5-18 17:12
nintendo 發表於 12-5-18 16:34
朋友個仔在 isf 讀過，聽過學校教學情形
如果講語文環境，基本上係 local school 一樣 ：小學行中文，中 ...
That actually is not a fair comment. What the prinicipal said was because the lower school students (Foundation Year to Grade 2) do 70% Mandarin and 30% English, so naturally their English standard will lag behind in the early years but by the time they get to Year 3-4 English and Mandarin will become 50:50 and by Year 6-8 English will be 70% and Mandarin will be 30%. Hence, by the time the students graduate from ISF, their English will be as good as other international schools' students but with a stronger Mandarin/Chinese capability as Mandarin/Chinese is not being taught as a second language at ISF (as in other international schools).
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-5-18 17:41
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你係講緊一個完美的狀態
可惜，大部份人都唔可能真係可以後來 catch up 英文
香港有部份學校小學都係英文教，但有幾多上到中學英文真係同 IS 有得比？
我估敢話中英都好的都係個幾間最 top 的學校，最 top 的一批學生
但人地係精英制度下栽培 (谷) 出黎
isf 在小學， english exposure 比 dgjs 更少，點解可以咁肯定呢班學生，上到去英文好果 dgs 先？
我唔係話 isf 唔好，不過唔好講到咁神奇
作者: Birkin 時間: 12-5-18 17:51
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But that applies to all schools and students, even native English speakers. I know a lot of gweilos who can't spell and write proper English... >.<
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-5-18 18:01
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咁當我多口，都係唔搭咀
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 12-5-18 19:34
I did go to the open day of ISF in March, and the hard selling of chinese culture by the gweilo principal (speaking gweilo accent mandarin) did put me off quite a bit. However, the students at least those i saw are really quite smart. True that some upper form students do not speak engish with perfect accent (having transferred from local schools), but the lower forms especially those starting from foundation year do speak with very good accent. Of course, i couldn't tell if they learn it at school, or are really from non-purely local families.
The insurance saleman type of selling of chinese culture is indeed weird, but i heard the school is very popular among the riches and professional in upper middle class.
Seems so odd, any genuine ISF parents giving some true advices?
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-5-19 01:56
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-5-19 09:37 編輯
Birkin 發表於 12-5-18 17:12
That actually is not a fair comment. What the prinicipal said was because the lower school student ...
Birkin,
I think you are talking about this timetable.
http://www.isf.edu.hk/en/academics/putonghua-english-mastery/
I have this question. Let's say there is a school which says it does 30% Chinese and 70% English in the lower school. It gradually shifts to 50% Chinese and 50% English in Grades 4 and 5. During Grades 6 to 8, it does 70% Chinese and 30% English, In Grades 9 to 10, it becomes 80% Chinese and 20% English. Now let's compare it with another school that does 100% (or almost 100%) Chinese throughout the 10 odd years, Would you expect the 1st school students' Chinese to be as good as those from the 2nd school by the time they graduate in Grade 12? Of course, the 1st school students' English is miles better than those from the 2nd school. There's no doubt about it. But they spend so much less time on Chinese than the 2nd school students, wouldn't there be a gap between the Chinese level of the 2 schools? I deliberately made a switch from English to Chinese in this example because I think people can see where the difficulties lie more clearly. Now let's go back to ISF. A yearly difference of 70% to 20% may not sound a lot. But if we translate it into school hours, the figure might be quite significant especially when we are talking about a period of 13 years from Foundation Year to Grade 12. I am not saying ISF is no good or anything. I am just wondering how the students there could manage to catch up with the other IS who spend 100% (or almost 100%) of their time in English. By the way, we haven't even taken into account the time they spend on doing the Chinese or English homework (as the case may be).
作者: elock 時間: 12-5-19 09:23 標題: 回覆：21Ckid 的帖子
Hi, I think it will be more fair if we step back and look into the matter.
Every principle sells his/her school on different aspects no matter it is local or international schools. This is natural. Why should one be serious about this? Whether you like or dislike the selling point is purely subjective. One may simply live the campus regardless of the curriculum. While on the other hand, some parents may like the sports facilities in the school. Even some parents may choose a school because certain celebrities have kids there.
I think most importantly is that whether the whole school fits what you want for your kid, both academically and person as a whole.
You are bound to hear pros and cons for every school. Going back to ISF and CDNIS, I personally love these 2 schools. CDNIS has a nice campus and the average IB score is quite ok. There are more non-Asian there. ISF is stuck between local and international school, even though it is considered as the latter. It is not running on certain country's curriculum. Yes, this year its first batch of IB students will come and I am sure the school will amend the curriculum accordingly in the future.
No one can really help you choose a school. I think students in CDNIS may have less homework than that in ISF.
Hope you find the information helpful.
作者: iamfine 時間: 12-5-19 09:30 標題: 回覆：ISF or CDNIS?
Was in Shanghai and Hangzhou for business. Got stuck in Hangzhou airport yesterday because of flight delay. There was a group of ISF kids there (12-15 years of age I guess). A lot of them speak perfect English and Putonghua. By perfect I mean perfect - indistinguishable from a Beijing kid or gweimui. (By the way, I lived in London over 13 years and know what good English is. )
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-5-19 16:51
I won't comment on the "selling" of ISF as I don't think that is relevant to the language issue we are talking about here.
Nintendo> I think you should go check out ISF's Open Day and see for yourself. Most of the kid's English are on par with other IS and that is confirmed by test results (comprehension and writing). I say most since I do think families who speak Mandarin at home are at a disadvantage since they simply get less exposure. I can also say from personal experience that the spoken English is significantly better than good local schools. As for written English, I am not sure how to compare in this case.
On their Mandarin, I don't think it is a fair comparison with either LS or IS since they spent so much time on it. And for those kids who start in Foundation Year, they are miles ahead of other schools. I think a lot of it is because in FY, all the kids start learning pinyin and given the small class size, all the kids will have to recite 唐詩 、 第子規 individually for the homeroom teacher. As a result, they all have really good pronunciation to such an extent that I feel embarrassed speaking mandarin in front of my kids 
Just go to the Open Day and speak with the non-ethnically Chinese kids or those from HK families.
I actually don't think their disadvantage is in language but rather in mathematics. Haven't done a comparison myself but doubt they will be ahead of LS.
Having gone through LS and then went abroad myself, this "我估敢話中英都好的都係個幾間最 top 的學校，最 top 的一批學生" I completely disagree with. Even for people I know personally who made it to the best US universities directly from LS, their English are below average. Can't comment on their Chinese though.
bobbycheung> interesting construct but in this day and age, I think it is all a question of how much time you allocate to each of English vs Mandarin vs Cantonese. Doubt any HK parent like myself would just pick one of the three
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-5-19 17:12
On Mathematics, they are certainly behind LS but have not tried to compare with other IS. Would be interesting if someone has looked into that.
作者: kfy 時間: 12-5-19 18:00
Dear iamfine
The kids are on their excursion this week.
Dear 21Ckid and elock
I think the "positioning" of ISF is not actually an international school but a bilingual school. Though not all parents may be interested in this positioning, this is what the school is doing and I believe they are pretty on track.
Before my daughter joined this school I was also kind of skeptical about the school. Then I talked to Ms Jew their director of language immersion. I told her that we are Cantonese speaking family and my daughter is neither native speaker in English nor Mandarin; and asked whether it would be a problem. She told me it's exactly the right choice for us to speak mother tongue at home, because mother tongue's not just about language development. At that moment I really felt "what a relief!" because her thought aligned with my belief. Later on I attended the school's parents' workshop about bilingualism by Dr Gao their director of chinese language. He talked about how to develop bilingual kids, which gave me some insights too.
What I am trying to say is, while the speeches of the principal may sound quite hard selling (I feel the same!), it is not their gimmick but something they are really trying to do.
作者: 21Ckid 時間: 12-5-19 19:56
Honestly, except the princpal, i like many aspects of the school. The bilingual approach was properly designed to challenge CIS (whose students i heard still prefer english much more than chinese which does not suit many parents), but how well does it work out?
作者: type409 時間: 12-5-19 20:27
本帖最後由 type409 於 12-5-19 21:17 編輯
I wondered why many people in BK like to criticize on ISF...
HKTHK: why do you think ISF's math level is inferior to those of LS?
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-5-19 23:34
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-5-19 23:50 編輯
type409 發表於 12-5-19 20:27
I wondered why many people in BK like to criticize on ISF...
HKTHK: why do you think ISF's math leve ...
I am not criticizing ISF and I have no intention to do so. ISF emphasises on the importance of both English and Chinese. There are other IS schools that do so eg SIS, CIS.... I myself also think that both languages are important and that's why I sent my kids to one of these "bilingual" schools too. I raised the question only because according to Birkin, the principal of ISF says "by the time the students graduate from ISF, their English will be as good as other international schools' students". It's a bold claim that (to me at least) is pretty hard to achieve. Putting aside those very few that have natural talent, I believe how good you are at something (eg English, Chinese, swimming, football....) really depends on how much time and effort you put into it and how good the teaching/coaching is. I assume that the last 2 factors (ie. effort and teaching/coaching) are no different between ISF and other IS, the fact that the students spend so much time on Chinese makes me wonder how they could catch up with the other IS in English. I am aware it could be a sales pitch. But then it seems that a lot of parents believe and affirm that's indeed the case. I wonder how it could be done.
作者: kfy 時間: 12-5-21 10:18
Dear Bobby and 21Ckid,
I can't say whether my daughter's English standard will be comparable to graduates from other IS. But judging from her progress in this year I am confident that her English will be far better than what she may possibly attain in local school. I am talking about my daughter's own case and NOT about comparing with other students in local school.
The school is doing well in developing the reading habit of students. The school library is more like a public square and crowded with students after school. The circulation is so big that they are always understaffed.
On the other hand, the school is Chinese focus and pro-Chinese culture. Parents need to consider whether it's your cup of tea. Furthermore, they believe in homework and they will never tell you that you only need minimal effort at home but still you will be very smart. It's quite the contrary. However, they are not exam oriented and the assessment is rather child centered.
作者: KarenKang 時間: 12-5-22 21:34
My son is going to ISF fundation class next Sept, the reason i chose ISF is because my husband is not Chinese. But I want my son to have stronger Chinese. Learning Chinese is harder than English therefore it makes sense to start young. English become more important in upper grades becuase they run IB and most of the students will go to western countries (US/Eng/Aus/Can) for university. Therefore english becomes more important. Most important is their interest in learning life long.
作者: Atticus 時間: 12-5-23 17:10
type409 發表於 12-5-19 20:27
I wondered why many people in BK like to criticize on ISF...
HKTHK: why do you think ISF's math leve ...
I believe "criticise" might not be the right word for describing their attitude. I think they are more like being skeptical that ISF seems to have achieved something (i.e., true bilingualism/mastery in both Mandarin/Chinese and English) that not even the more established, popular and well-known international schools (e.g., CIS and SIS) are able to fully achieve.
My suggestion is don't take others' words for it, go and see for yourselves. Do go to ISF's open days if you have the time and talk to as many students (not just the showcase/star students) as possible to check out whether ISF's students are on average really as good as some parents claimed to be...
作者: dumbdonkey 時間: 12-5-25 20:56
liu_cmc 發表於 12-4-26 19:00
Hi,
ISF or CDNIS? which one will you chose?
Parents should do more research into the school and understand what each school has to offer. If your real priority is Mandarin, then Kiangsu is your obvious choice. Both schools offer IB (ISF at some point) so what is your question. Define what a good teacher is and what 'discipline' is then you might be able to understand your own question. All your other issues can be dealt with by doing research.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-6-21 00:12
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Am bored and rereading some old posts. I wonder if class size has to do with allowing ISF to catch up as well. ISF is at 18, SIS at 25 and CIS at 22. I am a believer in small class education as that allows the teacher to pay more individual attention to students.
At the end of the day though, I don't worry much about English as I intend to send my kids abroad and am sure they will be fluent. What I do worry about is Mandarin since they will have much less chance to use it when they go abroad.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-6-21 01:11
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-6-21 01:12 編輯
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I don't really know, but my gut feeling is that a class size difference of 4 to 7 students wouldn't make a lot of difference. 2 questions came to my mind. (1) If ISF is to reduce its class size to 2 or 3, would its students' English level be significantly better? Could the extra attention each individual student get compensate for the loss of hours (which looks to be very substantial over a period of 13 years)? I guess not. (2) I believe schools like GSIS has a class size of 25. If they were to reduce the class size to 18, would its students' English standard be a lot better? Again, I guess not.
Anyway, I guess one of the main problems is that it is very difficult to assess how good one's English is by just hearing him talking. I speak perfect Cantonese with a perfect accent. English people hear me talking might think my Chinese is as good as that of 董橋 or 蕭若元. But the truth is 
. Likewise, most people in UK speak perfect English with an English accent. But surely their English standard cannot all be the same.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-6-21 01:42
Unless kids are going to study literature or be a writer, I do think there is a certain level of fluency that is "good enough". For me, I just want them to be able to speak like a native speaker, read any books and write an essay or love letter if needs be. While it would be nice if their writing is as good as 董橋, doubt that's going to happen!
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-6-21 10:52
本帖最後由 nintendo 於 12-6-21 10:52 編輯
HKTHK 發表於 12-6-21 01:42
Unless kids are going to study literature or be a writer, I do think there is a certain level of flu ...
可能你唔係好明西方中英文課程，西方人叫的 english class (langauge class)，就有大比例的 literature。
esf 在高小時已開始讀莎士比亞 (當然，只是讀皮毛，同中學時讀的不同水平)。初中開始每年兩三本至五六本不等的書要讀，係要做 analysis，要了解故事的歷史背景，學習各種文學技考，和本地課程學下 grammar，寫下 composition 唔同，要比，國際學校的 english 比本地 english literature 課要求更高。
我又多口，不過可能你以為國際學校 english class 好少 (或冇) literature，因此覺得可易 catch up。
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-6-21 11:06
HKTHK 發表於 12-6-21 00:12
At the end of the day though, I don't worry much about English as I intend to send my kids abroad and am sure they will be fluent. What I do worry about is Mandarin since they will have much less chance to use it when they go abroad.
香港有度好，就係多選擇；我一直覺得多幾間國制學校 (或 dss) 都係好事；不過家長真係要睇真 d 學校課程係唔係合自己期望。
如果學校話中學的英文程到可以同其他國制學校比，咁家長有一定要求都好合理，最怕係將課程太理想化，讀完六七年先知目標難達到，咁就真係喊都無謂。
你講到咁唔介意唔擔心，真係好豁達。的確，少 d 期望，少 d 失望。
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-6-21 11:32
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I think you misunderstood me and I should have made myself more clear. Am aware of what a good high school English class is supposed to teach. But when I was referring to studying Literature, I meant as a major in college. Am sure any international school will have their students reading Shakespeare at some point. The question I have is assuming one's English is good enough to read and enjoy Shakespeare on their own, isn't that good enough already? Does it really matter whether one has read all the Shakespeare works (as opposed to some)? Or that it was read at age 13 as opposed to age 16?
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-6-21 11:40
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Don't get me wrong, I want my kids to do well in life. But I also think they need to find their interests in what they want to pursue and spend time on that. And if it is not English or Chinese as a language (so that they can become a professor or a writer), then I really think it just need to be at a functional level so that they can use it as a tool. I do like to read quite a bit and hope it will rub off on them over time as well. What are your expectations on languages then?
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-6-21 12:18
本帖最後由 nintendo 於 12-6-21 12:24 編輯
HKTHK 發表於 12-6-21 11:32
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I think you misunderstood me and I should have made myself more clear. Am awa ...
哈哈，我提莎翁作品，都係隨口 UP，因為多人識，其實都可以係 WALDEN。
我只係想說明，IS 的 english class 係有好多 literature component 的，唔係要鬥 D 乜野。
同一本 hamlet，一個 IS 學生和一個同齡的 LS 學生讀的深度會唔同，唔可以係話大家都睇過讀過，就算 IN PAR。
好似你話的 enjoy on their own 係一回事，認真咁對作品做 analysis 又係另一回事。
我的論點好簡單，我用 dgjs 做 bench mark 係因為佢地係本地少有的英文小學。
如果有學校話，佢地小學時主要用中文教 (即英文比例比 dgjs 少)，但將來中學英文水平會和其他國際學校相約 (即英文比 dgs 好)，作為一個 "聽眾"，我第一時間會問，點解可以咁有信心？
同時，我都想問，點解 dgs 唔敢講，話佢地 D 女仔英文可以同 IS 比 (講真，DGS 就真係有好多實例 D 英文好掂)。
係語文真係要浸的，唔係話可以咁易追上來。
為小朋友選擇學校，當然要多角度去看。
當然，你有信心，甚至你話唔 mind 孩之英文水平係點，我絕對尊重。
我唔係要話邊間學校唔好，但係真係好奇，想將一個可能好多家長都會有的疑問帶出黎，大家思考下。
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-6-21 13:48
本帖最後由 HKTHK 於 12-6-21 13:49 編輯
Not sure if you are doing this unconsciously but there really is no need to belittle other people by presupposing that they don't understand how to properly appreciate a good book. Analyzing a book's content, its author and its historical context, comparing and contrasting with other works of a similar genre or period are part and parcel of, what I mean by, reading and enjoying a book. And I don't see why ISF students would not be able to do that. I can't speak from personal experience yet since my children are still young but I do know that they are on track. Would be interesting to compare notes again in 5 to 10 years.
You raised a valid question which is how can a school put in less time and still be at comparable standards. I think several people, including myself, have told you repeatedly that it does appear that the objectives are being achieved and you simply keep re-raising the question without delving into the facts or the details. Something that is theoretically difficult to do doesn't mean that it can't be done.
I am not saying that I don't mind my kids' English standards. There was a period while she was in a local kindergarten that I noticed a sharp drop-off but it is now noticeably better at ISF and I am comfortable with where her English is now. And I am confident since if things doesn't work out, I can spend more time and resources to get it right.
作者: nintendo 時間: 12-6-21 13:57
本帖最後由 nintendo 於 12-6-21 13:58 編輯
HKTHK 發表於 12-6-21 13:48
Not sure if you are doing this unconsciously but there really is no need to belittle other people by ...
Noted.
Looks like any different views are not welcome.
Think I'd better keep quiet.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-6-21 14:23
本帖最後由 HKTHK 於 12-6-21 14:34 編輯
You are welcome to express your views and opinion and I have tried my utmost to keep this a civilized exchange. It is condescending to presuppose others don't know what a proper English literature class is [though I just wanted to point it out and am not offended]. Would be nice if we can carry on a discussion that moves pass this is simply theoretically impossible to do given less time invested and really look at what is being done at the school and how its students are doing.
Will let other forum readers be the judge.
作者: iamfine 時間: 12-6-21 14:44
The posts under this and the 條條大道通羅馬 forum give a Jekyll & Hyde kind of amusement. Interesting.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-6-21 16:11
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-6-21 16:13 編輯
If ISF can achieve what other IS can do but with a lot less time, then personally I think the most likely explanation is that its teachers and teaching are better than those of the other IS and /or its students are better than than those in other IS. I am not at odds with 條條大道通羅馬. It's just that when ISF can achieve the same thing with a much shorter route, it would be interesting to find out exactly how they do it. Perhaps this method could be applied to other subjects such as Chinese, maths...... as well.
作者: annie40 時間: 12-6-21 17:36
哗! 原来大家仲未讲完. 个人只赞成鬼老孩子读ISF. 专攻Mandarin speaking and Chinese writing. 非常成功. 英语由家开始. 即自己home tutoring.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-6-21 17:48
annie40 發表於 12-6-21 17:36
哗! 原来大家仲未讲完. 个人只赞成鬼老孩子读ISF. 专攻Mandarin speaking and Chinese writing. 非常成 ...
作者: Jane1983 時間: 12-6-21 19:37
我知道好多人覺得Nintendo講嘢吳啱聽，但佢講的確實是我最擔心的，亦幾有可能發生的。
作者: tingtingting 時間: 12-6-21 20:59 標題: 引用：哗!+原来大家仲未讲完.++个人只赞成鬼老孩
原帖由 annie40 於 12-06-21 發表
哗! 原来大家仲未讲完. 个人只赞成鬼老孩子读ISF. 专攻Mandarin speaking and Chinese writing. 非常成 ...
作者: annie40 時間: 12-6-22 12:37
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
你肯讲, 是帮了不少以为交低HK$1888. 就可以瘦身的家长. 那有这么便宜, 每天我要做10K运动, 才可以无甘走样. 广告是愈夸大, 愈岩听的. 10 秒, click 走皺纹...... 神仙水? 非常岩听!
作者: simpleway 時間: 12-6-22 16:03
提示: 作者被禁止或刪除 內容自動屏蔽
作者: 112200 時間: 12-6-22 16:06
Dear all parents ,
what do think about SIS ? SIS vs ISF vs CDNIS offer which one you will take ? please advise.
作者: annie40 時間: 12-6-22 16:28
回復 simpleway 的帖子
I could have used the wrong words. Sorry!
ISF is a good school with many good teachers. However, they focus on Chinese very much. The overall English level is not as good as proper IS or elite LS. The insiders have the same opinions. Please try to check it up.
作者: 112200 時間: 12-6-22 16:58
Dear all parents ,
what do think about SIS ? SIS vs ISF vs CDNIS offer which one you will take ? please advise
作者: simpleway 時間: 12-6-22 18:17
提示: 作者被禁止或刪除 內容自動屏蔽
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-6-22 18:44
simpleway 發表於 12-6-22 18:17
Annie40,
I don't know any insider of ISF, but the limited no. of ISF kids I met, they all can speak ...
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-6-22 19:31
回復 annie40 的帖子
Which are the elite LS that you would consider has such high levels of English?
作者: Jane1983 時間: 12-6-23 17:14
其實大家係EK討論，最緊要係肯講真心話，分享睇法。只要吳過份，吳係誹謗、人身攻擊就ok，如果個個講客氣說話有咩意思！
作者: annie40 時間: 12-6-26 17:50
回復 simpleway 的帖子
simpleway,
Thank you again for reminding me to behave myself. You're right that it's not fair to judge a young school when everything is so green. Time flies! We make choices at all times. No matter good or bad, just keep going to work it out. From my writing you can see how broken of my English that could be a joke to give comment on English levels. Anyway, I truly believe ninetendo and bobby's point of view. I hope parents would think it deeper.
Good luck!
annie
作者: hkparent 時間: 12-6-26 19:05
Could I know if ISF upper students can speak native English (not just fluent). Kids from elite local schools can speak very fluent but not native English. A good combination may be: real IS (like Cdnis, Gsis, Hkis) plus relatively intensive Chinese/mandarin tutorials. We can't train up kids with native English by taking tutorials.
作者: iamfine 時間: 12-6-26 20:16 標題: 回覆：ISF or CDNIS?
Interesting. Seems that some of our fellow HK parents can go really Hongkish. I've lived in the UK, Taiwan, Singapore, and very briefly in Swiss and Japan. Never have I come across such zombie-like parents who are so troubled by or obsessed with a foreign language as simple as English that they have to send their kids to a so called real IS to learn the language. My $0.02 to those who love to belittle ISF or its mode of education, stay away from it. It's an acquired taste. Chances are that you are not ready for it.
作者: Atticus 時間: 12-6-26 23:20
iamfine 發表於 12-6-26 20:16
Interesting. Seems that some of our fellow HK parents can go really Hongkish. I've lived in the UK, ...
Haha! A bit blunt but well said.
As far as I understand, none of nintendo, annie40 or bobbycheung's kids are attending ISF, so why keep questioning ISF students’ language competence? You guys seem obsessed with this topic.
To be honest, I simply find nintendo and annie40's biased and ill-informed comments plus their judgemental and reckless attitude offensive.
As for bobbycheung, I don't quite understand where he is coming from.
From his comments, he seems a very reasonable guy but why won't he listen to other people's comments or go and find out for himself?
It seems to me that he is only looking for the answers that he wants to hear and refuses to believe that ISF students are truly bilingual.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-6-27 00:40
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-6-27 01:01 編輯
Atticus 發表於 12-6-26 23:20
Haha! A bit blunt but well said.
As far as I understand, none of nintendo, annie40 or bobbycheun ...
I don't think I have ever said that ISF students are not bilingual. I know they are because I heard a few of them speaking perfect English. I raised my question solely because of the ISF principal's claim that "by the time the students graduate from ISF, their English will be as good as other international schools' students". (I take it he didn't mean oral English only but English level in general). As I said, I don't understand how ISF students could spend so much less time and yet achieve the same English standard as those other IS students who spend infinitely more time on it. I just ask WHY and HOW it could be done and I thought it's a fair question. Yes, I have heard many parents saying it's indeed the case. But it's the end result and it's not what my question is directing at. I am rather interested in HOW they could do it. So far only HKTHK has offered me an explanation that it might have something to do with the class size difference. I also offered 2 possible explanations myself, that is "ISF's teachers and teaching are better than those of the other IS and /or its students are better than than those in other IS." Anyway, if any parent thinks that I am defaming ISF, I would restrain myself from pursuing my question any further. But before I go, may I ask the ISF parents this one last question. Wouldn't you want to find out why and how as well?
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-6-27 12:25
bobby> I would like to know! I suspect class size is one factor and the other one that I can think of is the diverse student base. There are native speakers of both English and Mandarin in a class (at least 20% each?) and I think that does rub off the other students. Imagine learning a new language at the age of 5 in a setting where only this language is used in classrooms and playground. And then to repeat over next 12 years? Reminds me of learning English myself. Didn't realize how poor my English is until I studied abroad and started using English everyday for class and social interactions. [Which is why I am a bit shocked that annie40 thinks so highly of some of the elite LS English level. Based on my own personal observation, I haven't seen any LS students with what I would call good English unless they have studied abroad. But things may have changed and hopefully improved since I went to college.] These are just my speculations anyway and it is too early to tell. The first class is just graduating this year. What gave me the most comfort is that my kids seem to be heading in the right direction. And if one combines this with Annie's attitude that "No matter good or bad, just keep going to work it out", I am sure any problems can be overcome.
hkparent> My observation is that most of the kids are like native speakers (no different from my sister who went to HKIS) with the exception of those who are from Mandarin speaking families. But this is only in the lower grades. Not sure about the Mandarin speakers in higher grades.
作者: hkparent 時間: 12-6-27 18:23
It seems that ISF is an ideal school. By the way, is there any daily Chinese homework and how long will it take? What is it about? Reading passage and doing worksheet? Is parental support necessary? Thanks.
作者: Atticus 時間: 12-6-27 22:06 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+bobbycheung+於+12-6-27+01:01
原帖由 bobbycheung 於 12-06-27 發表
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-6-27 01:01 編輯
To other Education Kingdom users: Please act like responsible adults and be considerate when you make comments about a particular school or its students. Comments based on facts are welcome but please stop making groundless derogatory comments on matters that you don't know or care about. Other parents whose kids are attending ISF, are going to attend ISF or are thinking of applying to ISF would be seriously troubled by these irresponsible remarks.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-6-28 14:34
回復 hkparent 的帖子
I am not sure if there is a thing as ideal. I value fluency in Mandarin and English and I am sure other parents value other things. Experience is around 1 hour per day. We spend more time on reading books though.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-26 16:46
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
bobby> I know this thread is from some time ago but I am digging it up since I may have find another answer to the question of how and why a school, like ISF, can claim their standard of English will be on par with other international schools eventually. The answer seems to be bilingual immersion(or sometimes called two-way immersion). Have only started reading up on this but here is a piece of meta-research on this topic. (http://www.csos.jhu.edu/crespar/techReports/Report63.pdf) It is a bit long but covers many of the relevant issues.
Here is a brief summary from the report:
Two-way immersion (TWI) is an instructional approach that integrates native English speakers and native speakers of another language (usually Spanish) and provides instruction to both groups of students in both languages.
One of the bullet points in the Conclusion of the whole research:
"Student academic outcomes are generally favorable in that both language minority students and language majority students tend to do as well or better on standardized achievement tests than their peers who are educated in alternative educational settings, such as general education, ESL, or transitional bilingual programs. Moreover, both groups of students demonstrate progress toward the goals of bilingualism and biliteracy development."
As with all things in life, there are criticisms on bilingual immersion and will try to read up on those as well. Something else that I would like to learn more about is how would this apply in a Chinese/English immersion context (as opposed to mostly English/Spanish immersion in the research).
作者: Shootastar 時間: 12-11-26 17:12
回復 HKTHK 的帖子
Thanks for your sharing.
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-11-26 18:34
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 12-11-26 18:50 編輯
HKTHK 發表於 12-11-26 16:46
how would this apply in a Chinese/English immersion context (as opposed to mostly English/Spanish immersion in the research) ...
Chinese / English bilingual immersion would probably be much the same as any other bilingual immersion programmes as far as listening and speaking are concerned, but would be very different when it comes to reading and writing.
With Spanish / English, their writing systems are essentially the same. Both share the latin alphabet and their pronunciations don't differ that much, so once you have learned one system, picking up the other is not so difficult.
When it comes to Chinese / English though, their writing systems are completely different, you simply have to learn both from scratch, and because reading and writing Chinese are much harder and require much more time and effort to learn, many children would simply give up if they are left to their own choosing. That is why many IS students could learn to speak Cantonese and/or Mandarin very well but they are much weaker when it comes to reading and writing Chinese, even if they are ethnic Chinese themselves. I'm not saying this is the case in ISF, but it is the general scenario for IS students, those who could learn to read/write Chinese well are the results of much coercion and perseverance at home or school or both.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-27 01:48
回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子
That would be my "guess" as well but that is not borne out by research. I just find a specific document on Chinese English immersion and the results seem to be the same (http://www.lindholm-leary.com/present&handout/ISTP_BilSymposiumOct08_4web.pdf). This lady is one of the few who has done several large scale research on two-way bilingual immersion so I would assume she is a credible source.
As for your comments on IS, I think it is worthwhile to look at the definition of various immersion. One-way immersion education has the following features:
- students spend part or all of their instructional day studying through a second language other than their native English
- the second language is used to teach academic content (e.g. math, social studies)
- the second language is used for at least 50% of the instructional day
- teachers use specialized strategies to make sure students understand content
For IS that has Chinese lessons, I am not even sure if they can be called one-way immersion as it is unclear that they teach academic content in Chinese or that the use of Chinese exceeds 50% of instruction. Only ones that come to mind are CIS, CKY, ISF, Victoria, [KCIS?] but it would be great if others can point out schools that also have one-way immersion.
In two-way immersion education, there are the same requirements as one-way immersion but in addition, native speakers of the second language is added to the native English speakers. From another source, I read that the ideal mix is 50%/50% but that native speakers of either language should not fall below 30%. Two-way immersion is supposed to deliver better results than one-way though I have not seen an exact quantification. ISF is quite close to getting to this though a little short as native Mandarin speakers is only about 20% to 25% and English speakers about 40-45%. I am not sure about other schools but it would be great if other parents who have the data can share it here. Would be especially interested to see CIS's mandarin speaking %.
There are also different structures of two-way immersion programs. Most commonly seen ones are either 50/50 or 90/10 meaning the non-English language would receive 50% or 90% of instruction time in the early years. Interestingly, the 90/10 programs achieve better results without sacrificing proficiency in English. I know CIS is structured as a 50/50 program and ISF is structured as a 70/30 program. Does anyone know if CKY is 50/50 as well?
作者: jolalee 時間: 12-11-27 13:07
本帖最後由 jolalee 於 12-11-27 13:12 編輯
bobbycheung 發表於 12-6-27 00:40
I don't understand how ISF students could spend so much less time and yet achieve the same English standard as those other IS students who spend infinitely more time on it. I just ask WHY and HOW it could be done and I thought it's a fair question. Yes, I have heard many parents saying it's indeed the case. But it's the end result and it's not what my question is directing at. I am rather interested in HOW they could do it.
FattyDaddy 發表於 12-11-26 18:34 When it comes to Chinese / English though, their writing systems are completely different, you simply have to learn both from scratch, and because reading and writing Chinese are much harder and require much more time and effort to learn, many children would simply give up if they are left to their own choosing.
I come into this thread halfway and haven't read all the discussion in between. I just want to address bobby's question on how this is possible. Instead of looking at the less amount of time spent on English, we must address how come ISF allot so much time on Chinese (which FattyDaddy has already touched on).
The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of USA has created a list to show the approximate time you need to learn a specific language as an English speaker:
http://www.effectivelanguagelearning.com/language-guide/language-difficulty
Of the 61 languages analyzed, both Cantonese and Mandarin Chinese are 2 of the 5 languages listed as Category 5: Languages which are exceptionally difficult for native English speakers requiring 88 weeks (2200 hours) to learn. This somewhat proved that English and Chinese are as different as Heaven and Earth, and we all know how crazy it is to try to learn all the Chinese characters as children ourselves. It is therefore logical to concentrate on the more difficult language, if the aim is to acquire both languages equally well.
That said, I also agree that all languages are not just grammar and syntax, and the amount of time spent on any specific language also includes cultural immersion and the intellectual stimulation that particular language provides. At the end of the day each family is unique and we have different expectations as to what we want to pass down onto our next generation. Along with the languages, which is only the tip of the iceberg, there is a vast amount of wisdom and world views associated with them. Along with each tongue, there really is a different kind of brainwork attached to it.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-27 13:22
回復 jolalee 的帖子
I haven't reread the whole thread either but I will try to summarize the question as: Why does a school like ISF claim that it can achieve the same level of English proficiency while its actual time of instruction substantially lack other IS? I guess on the flip side, you can also ask the same question about Chinese proficiency compared to LS.
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-11-27 13:29
HKTHK 發表於 12-11-27 01:48
That would be my "guess" as well but that is not borne out by research. I j ...
It is not a guess either, we see many real life examples around us. It is not uncommon for non-native Chinese speakers to learn to speak Cantonese or Mandarin to a very high standard, e.g. 河國榮, 喬寶寶, but few of them could read or write Chinese characters to the same level, this phenomenon also occurs in IS students. The reason is quite simple, Chinese characters are detached from the spoken language, knowing how to speak does not help much in learning how to read and write, while in an alphabetic language, once you know how to speak you can acquire reading and writing skills quite easily because the written words are just phonetic representations of the spoken sounds.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-27 13:58
回復 FattyDaddy 的帖子
Agree that reading and writing Chinese is more difficult than listening and speaking. But the research already confirms that two-way immersion works for reading and writing skills as well.
Direct quote from the presentation:
"In both Programs, both native Chinese speaking and native English speaking students developed oral language (listening, speaking) skills and literacy (reading, writing) skills in Cantonese or Mandarin."
作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 12-11-27 15:06
HKTHK 發表於 12-11-27 13:58
"In both Programs, both native Chinese speaking and native English speaking students developed oral language (listening, speaking) skills and literacy (reading, writing) skills in Cantonese or Mandarin." ...
Real life experience tells us, a non-native's Chinese literacy skills usually lag far behind their oral skills, and this is happening to many IS students even if they are ethnic Chinese. I guess many IS parents here can say just how hard they had to coerce and push their children to spend extra time and effort to read/write Chinese in order to attain a respectable level of literacy.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-27 21:38
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Am not knowledgeable enough to know what specific standards they used in the research. It did say (without mentioning which grade) that about 80% of the students feel comfortable translating one language to the other and vice versa in writing.
But this is a moot point for this specific case. ISF uses local school text books at the same grade level in Chinese so reading and writing are similar to LS standards.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-27 23:08
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Unfortunately, more homework is expected and indeed true
作者: annie40 時間: 12-11-28 14:31
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看过ISF的中学中文书, 程度肯定高于local school.
作者: NoahArk 時間: 12-11-28 15:26
annie40 發表於 12-11-28 14:31
回復 HKTHK 的帖子
看过ISF的中学中文书, 程度肯定高于local school.
On a side issue, I attended a meeting with my daughter's school's IB coordinator and university counselor the other day. Quite a number of parents were concerned about the news (or rumors) that university admission officers are not entirely happy with students from HK and Singapore taking Chinese in Group Two. The counselor did not answer our questions directly but said the students should now think twice before dropping Chinese to Language B by default. Two reasons were mentioned: Language B Chinese is getting more difficult and will require a lot of work under the new syllabus; Although in the old days universities cared about IBDP points and points only, these days more and more admission officers may tend to think that those Chinese students who take Chinese language B at standard level are taking the easy way out, if not actually cheating. Not all the parents buy the two reasons. Some tended to think that the school was trying to justify its new Chinese program...
Any thought?
作者: annie40 時間: 12-11-28 15:49
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功课是永远的有人嫌多, 有人嫌少的. 多极也不会多过local school 的, 不如老实的鼓励孩子面对. 念其他IS 的, 咪一样有人要做长期做Kumon 的中文和,数学, 又有几份补习. 条数加埋也是相同. 甚至于多一点, 读ISF 常见是被质疑英语水平. 从前我也是这般想法, 然随着孩子长大, 明白普遍的IS 内的英语水平也是因人而异的, 因此不要以偏蓋全，更不要凡事倚赖学校, 如果希望孩子英语出色, 父母必然要多花心思,制造语境, 东西文化交流等.
总的来说我对ＩＳＦ能成功教育孩子掌握流利双语，包括听，读，写，是非常乐观的，只是成功比率是中，高，低而已．
作者: Sunsunmama 時間: 12-11-28 16:16 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+nintendo+於+12-5-18+16:44+編
原帖由 nintendo 於 12-05-18 發表
本帖最後由 nintendo 於 12-5-18 16:44 編輯
作者: annie40 時間: 12-11-28 16:49
回復 NoahArk 的帖子
Hi NoahArk,
多谢欲知我的想发, 其实不是懂得太多, , 只能随意分享所闻所见.
Quite a number of parents were concerned about the news (or rumors) that university admission officers are not entirely happy with students from HK and Singapore taking Chinese in Group Two. ***
- 是真的, 八九年前已经有前辈话我知. 他的儿子在ivy league admission office 帮助挑学生的.
- 我自己只是让女儿按兴趣来選中文科的, 其他管不了, 再者中文是日常生活最有用处的, 也是血缘文化, 亦有颇大机会更上层楼, 孩子原意读是最受惠的.
The counselor did not answer our questions directly but said the students should now think twice before dropping Chinese to Language B by default. ****
- 其实是每个语文也是有难度的, 如果孩子中文不太差, 学校又教得不赖, 冲冲改科也许不智的.
Two reasons were mentioned: Language B Chinese is getting more difficult and will require a lot of work under the new syllabus ***
- 应该是范围更广, 更多分析题, IS 学生一般分析力高, 不用怕, 做好字量,字词,standard level 的 workload 不会过重.
Although in the old days universities cared about IBDP points and points only, these days more and more admission officers may tend to think that those Chinese students who take Chinese language B at standard level are taking the easy way out, if not actually cheating****
- 外国鬼老是从来非常歧视黑头发学生考中文的, 对孩子同时的English (HL) 7分却视而不见的. 这点是他们因为他们见识少,水平唔高,心胸狭窄.
- "西瓜偎大边", 做人唔估计得过多, 话唔定几年后鬼老的想法是另一番光景,而将来孩子有否超级好工, 随时要靠科中文才可以食糊也未可知, 总之按正路行吧!
- take Chinese B standard level, 肯定不是take easy way out. 因为只能挑三科higher level, 如果想念Economics, 主打科(HL) 当然是Maths, Economic, + English or History, 就算中文非常好(PG HL 7 marks),怕者也要让路, 只可考Chinese B (SL). 要证明中文高水平, 便参加其它中文公开试, 拿定张沙纸以防万一
annie.
作者: annie40 時間: 12-11-28 17:09
回復 NoahArk 的帖子
That's what I think. My neighbor's daughter (now at ISF Middle School) is a good friend of my daughter. According to my daughter (she is now at another IS which is said to have a good Chinese program), ISF's Chinese is way more advanced. This I believe is in accordance with the figures: about 80% of ISF first cohort got a bilingual diploma (only 30% or fewer of the students from my daughter's school were awarded a bilingual diploma last year).
**** **** ****
ISF's Chinese 水平高, 课时长並非唯独关键, 反而是其curriculum 制作用心, 加快学习进度, 因而效果大增.
是否billigual 非最重要, 如take Chinese A (SL) 只能得三四分, 喊到无谓. 倒不如考Mandarin B (HL) 全取七分, ISF 是希望孩子,不论Chinese A or Mandarin B, 取五分以上的. (both SL and HL).
作者: poonseelai 時間: 12-11-28 17:17
回復 NoahArk 的帖子
I recalled reading some papers about South Island advising students that some UK universities may not consider a Chinese student taking Chinese B as a second language if the student wants to do a language subject in the university. Recently I also discussed with the DP coordinator of my daughters' school about the Chinese issue. He mentioned that some UK universities are now more concerned about Chinese students taking Chinese B with a view to getting more points.
作者: Annie123 時間: 12-11-28 17:38
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作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-28 18:14
回復 annie40 的帖子
It was fun reading up on all these research. And the signs are positive. But we do live in a real world that requires execution and ISF is like an expensive but promising experiment. It will be a long time before anyone will know if their immersion program is successful. As a parent, I do hope they succeed.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-28 21:02
回復 annie40 的帖子
I have met a parent who complains about too much homework since he thought ISF is a happy school. Needless to say, he also think bilingualism would just come naturally because he is paying a lot of money for the education. It always amazes me how some parents equate paying a lot of money with supporting your child's education. Now that ISF can afford to be more selective in its students, I hope that they will select those parents who understand and support bilingual immersion.
作者: annie40 時間: 12-11-29 16:17
回復 Annie123 的帖子
因為有人做壞規舉囉。
ibo 的指引清楚說，學校應該將學生案照水平分到合適的 language level。
如果學生中文好，點可能為拿高分特別降格讀 chinese b ？這是很不道得的做法，是學校的問題。
反正都降，是不是降去 chinese ab initio 更好，到時連堂也不用上 !
就是因為有學校走精面，讓大量學生讀 chinese b，結果出來的成績，是一大批學生 english a 只有 4-5 分，但 chinese b 有 7 分。
連累個 d 真正是 chinese b 的學生了。
**** **** ****
Annie123,
据知大部分是学校想孩子读Chinese A, 因为Billigual Diploma 可以省令招牌啊. 特别是中文部, 简直是老师成绩单, 唔交多D Billigual Diploma 点见PTA. 其实大部分想读Chinese B 的是家长.
从前我也是认为部分家长老想走easy way, 是很不道得的想法, 现在愈接近選科的日子, 和挑选大学的专业学科, 愈明白家长和孩子们的選择,不是全是走精门的. 几年来看多了, 听多了, 老是今天的我,打到昨天的我, 总是前言不对后语, 大家觉得我不合逻辑, 也是合理的.
念中国语文的进度, 不像Maths, Science, 是很难有标准工时来制定目标的, 而关键不在于原来的基本语文水平, 反而在于最后两年IB 的冲刺, 领悟力, 文花修养等, 因此在十五岁middle school,是不容易评估往后的真正实力, 能否后发先至, 或是早发还是后力不继, 语文能力非常因人而异的.
这点说明一些LS 孩子, 原来中文科已经很弱, 中三四才转读IS 的, 没有必要说定他们的中文能力必然高, 强行要求他们take Chnese (A) ,
另外一些孩子是天生的理科人才, 志向亦是如此, 就算语文天份也高, 总要做事分急瑗先后, 不能放个勇字在胸前, 就物都要做 No.1, 据知ISF 的高中 Chinese A 是一星期三份作文, 每份3000 -4000 字, 是做到人都颠. 吃不消? 其他科点算好? 因此是非常非常敬重有志成为Billigual 的人士,和学校. 这边的家长, 对孩子念中文的甜酸苦辣是尝尽了, 不管Chinese A, Mandarin B, Chinese ab, 是前因莫问, 拿到好成绩已经很了不起. time management 谈何容易呢?
按学习时数来定断谁真正合适 考 Chinese A, Mandarin B, Chinese ab? 看似公平? 如果大家老实回答, 不难发现工时长,不代表学得对路, 更不一定水平高, 鬼老睇低中国人学中文, 黑头发有尽优势考高分,也是认为我们走精门, 心态上不是有点如出一切吗?
从来相信路是人行出来的, 但要否行,怎样走, 是各人選择,父母恐怕second language 累事是人之常情, (中文科, 挨!!, =痛苦的, 听了不少), French,Spanish, 学校 支援有限!
就是因為有學校走精面，讓大量學生讀 chinese b，結果出來的成績，是一大批學生 english a 只有 4-5 分，但 chinese b 有 7 分。
***** 曾看过Mandarin B (HL) 的试题, 我想LS 的中六生也不是手到拿来的可得7 分的, 正常IS 不可能有一大批學生 有水平念Chinese A , 再者理解到 ISF 的训练和要求后, 更明白普遍ＩＳ学生难以有本事和时间投入读Chinese A 了．我想学校和学生，不是走精面，而是量力而为吧！
各人有其分数， ＩＢ 不是line curve 算式， 何解会连累d 真正是 chinese b 的學生了，谁是真，谁是假？
annie
p.s. This morning my friend asked if his son should move to take French ab in IB because of poor grade in Chinese. The point is all languages are difficult to achieve a good grade. She should ask his son's opinion & check the PG in Mardarin B (SL) with teachers. If really feel uncomfortable, it's no harm to explore new language instead.
Chinese A 的,
作者: annie40 時間: 12-11-29 16:37
回復 HKTHK 的帖子
不管贫富学校， 少不了这些家长的， 是社会縮影啊！希望他们早点开窍吧，否则便白白浪费了孩子！
常常想每间学校也是宝藏， 有的多，有的少， 多的是有宝拿不尽，只能選些最合适孩子的，唔好贪多得少，少的就更加唔好浪费时间系到投诉，拿得几多拿几多．
吓？ 一点宝也没有！ 肯定是眼大看过龙． 有的，有的！
作者: annie40 時間: 12-11-29 17:10
回復 HKTHK 的帖子
You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. 顺势而行吧!
小女半途出家的中文都ok, 可想而知凡事不是没可能! A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Think postive is the first single step. Never let anyone discourage you, especially those involve your kids pursuing a goal or a dream.
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