教育王國
標題: Letter from ESF to parents [打印本頁]
作者: 宏媽 時間: 12-3-15 10:53 標題: Letter from ESF to parents
To : Parents with children in -
ESF schools;
Discovery College;
Renaissance College;
Kindergartens; and
ESL Sports
Dear Parent
ESF Lions Football Incident
I am writing to you because there has been a good deal of understandable concern about an incident during a football match organised by ESF Educational Services Limited (ESL), an affiliate company of ESF, which is not subvented, and whose board I chair. The match was an Under-12 game between ESF Lions and Kitchee Escola. A ten-year-old player (we have established that he is ten, not eleven) was videoed making a kick that contacted the head of a Kitchee Escola player.
Let me say first very clearly that ESF and ESL deeply regret any injury that was caused to the young Escola player. The Chief Operating Officer of ESL, Ann Pearce, wrote on Monday to the boy’s father and the Head Football Coach has also written to the Chairman of Kitchee Football Club expressing their regret. We accept the disciplinary action that the Hong Kong Development League Association has taken. I understand that the parent of the injured child has referred the matter to the police and we will cooperate fully with any police investigation.
However, we are also concerned about the impact on the young ESF Lions player of the very public posting of an edited video on YouTube showing these events. By Tuesday afternoon, only 72 hours after the match, there had been more than 20,000 views. Under the film clip a large number of comments had been posted, making aggressive and threatening remarks about the ESF Lions player and his coach. From Sunday evening ESL had been asking Kitchee Football Club to use their good offices to request the removal of the video. ESL approached the Club because there is no ready central access to YouTube and we did not know the name of the person who had posted the film. As the film clips (now two of them) were still being shown on Tuesday morning and the number of views and comments was growing, ESL asked its lawyer to write to the parent who we believed had posted one of the clips and the Kitchee Football Club Chairman to press our request for the removal of the film clips. The lawyer’s letter makes clear our concern about the injury to the Kitchee Football Club child and is designed solely to get the video clips closed down because of the distress that the offensive comments were causing to the ESF Lions player and his family.
We have also commented about our disappointment that the Hong Kong Development League released its findings to journalists, from whom we learnt of them, before making them known to the ESF Lions player, his family, the coach or ESL and without an explanation of what the ‘disciplinary action’ would constitute.
I am very sorry indeed that parents have been distressed by this incident and I repeat my own deep regret that a child who played for the Kitchee Escola team was injured. All of the adults involved in physical sporting activities, managers, coaches, referees, spectators and parents, have a responsibility to teach children fair and responsible sporting behaviour and ESL is committed to the highest standards in that respect. Appropriate action will be taken to deal with this incident, but, as we do that, we have also to ensure that criticism of a ten-year-old who made a serious mistake does not get out of hand.
I ask for your support in allowing us to manage the follow-up to this matter in a firm and appropriate way but out of the spotlight of the social media which is too harsh an environment for a child to be exposed to.
Yours sincerely,
Heather Du Quesnay
Chief Executive Officer, English Schools Foundation
Chairman, Board of Directors, ESF Educational Services Limited
cc : ESF Board of Governors
Committee of School Council Chairmen
Principals
ESF Senior Management Team
ESF Education Team
Ann Pearce, Chief Operating Officer, ESF Educational Services Ltd
All Staff – ESF and ESL
作者: judymama 時間: 12-3-15 22:24 標題: 回覆：Letter from ESF to parents
Thanks for sharing
作者: edea 時間: 12-3-15 23:36 標題: 回覆：Letter from ESF to parents
本帖最後由 edea 於 12-3-16 08:33 編輯
I think the CEO was shifting public's attention onto the adverse comments against the ESF boy. Nothing substantial about how the boy and the school would face the victim and apologize face to face.
Has the violent kid ever apologized in person? Has he said sorry from his own mouth? I am looking forward to hearing this! I hope he is really sorry for what he did.
Issuing legal letters was very stupid indeed. Why couldn't ESF communicate with Kitchee in the first place? Why must they got lawyers involved? This was simply a threatening action, wrapping this up by beautiful excuses such ad kid must be protected from criticism. I am really disappointed with the CEO. Her words were rubbish,
作者: no-bully 時間: 12-3-16 00:06
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Agreed with your view. The CEO is afraid to lose her job and really wants ESF "out of the spotlight from social media＂•
作者: heiheihaha2009 時間: 12-3-16 09:52
作者: reneeleung 時間: 12-3-16 12:16
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作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-16 13:27
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-16 13:51 編輯
After I have a read of the letter again, I have a different view, I support the ESF CEO in handling this case:
1. ESF CEO has stated that both ESF and ESL has expressed deeply regret to the injury of the boy, the Chief Operating Officer of ESL wrote to the boy’s father and the Head Football Coach has also written to the Chairman of Kitchee Football Club expressing their regret.
2. I agree the boy who kicked should face disciplinary action, he should apologize to the injured boy in person, but it doesn't mean he has to be a spotlight in public, ESF just want to avoid 'cyber bullying'. And the letter says that ESL did first contact to request Kitchee Football Club on Sunday evening for removal of the video clips, but not successful. The video clips together with the growing threatening comments are still shown in public on Tuesday Morning, that's why they then approached their lawyer to write to them to ask for the removal of the clips. In terms of stopping 'cyber bullying' which can deteriorate rapidly in just even one day, they have to take prompt action.
3. The injured boy's father has filed this case with police, the video becomes an evidence for the police to investigate, this is the right way to make use of the video clip. The boy must learn a lesson for making this serious mistake.
4. The letter does not mention if the boy and his parents have apologized or not to the injured boy. As a ESF CEO, she has stated here how the organisation did when handling the case, but she doesn't have to state the details what the boy and his parent did, we are all outsiders here, the boy might have apologized already, who knows? and I agree the boy has to apologize to the victim but not have to be in public, right?
I hope the injured boy will recover soon, and the boy should apologize to the victim and correct his behaviour, we should give a child a chance to make corrections, right? As a parent, we have to teach our children the right value, avoid such aggressive behaviour, and learn to apologize after making mistakes.
作者: WYmom 時間: 12-3-16 14:00
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There are still many clips of this video on youtube and more people post comments...so obviously those legal letters are not useful at all, but only draw more negative consequence. Just wonder if there is really any legal consequence to the youtube videos publishers?
I agree very much with you that the boy needs to apologise to the victim and compensate him but no need to report to the public. I believe the police will investigate into and handle the case according to law and take it to court as appropriate.
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-16 14:08
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-16 14:09 編輯
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So this is the dark side of internet world. That's why ESF CEO tried to stop this cyber bullying by taking prompt action before it is out of hand, but you see situation proves that cyber bullying can deterioriate very rapidly...
作者: kenfu 時間: 12-3-16 16:15
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作者: 宏媽 時間: 12-3-16 16:48
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Who changed the first game result from Loss 16:0 to win 3:2 ?? Ans : ESFI don't think the school will do something as stupid as this.
There must be an inside story. I doubt if the coach reported accurately,
or if they have mistakenly put the result of another game for the result of the losing game.
Of course, if the true story is that the school did it on purpose, it is VERY VERY wrong.
Who want to avoid public to know this incident ?? Ans : ESF
ESF for sure knew that it is impossible to avoid this incident being publicized,
it was already on the news by the time they ask for stop posting the video.
I believe that what they are trying to do is to minimize the harm on everybody involved.
Who will benefit from the video being uploaded on internet anyway?
There are so many witnesses for the incident, so it is not hard to find witness for the accusation against #2.
So, uploading the video on internet will just make the incident more complicated, and it is a
lose lose situation for everyone.
The "Must Do" is issuing legal letter or asking the ESF # 2 apologize to the injured child ??
Agree
If the world doesn't have the youtube or other medias, I think ESF will not do anything.
I am a teacher in a local school myself, I do not believe any teachers or principals will do nothing for such incident.
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-16 16:58
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-16 17:25 編輯
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I don't think that publishing in YouTube or criticisms on Internet will help. The more positive approach is to leave it to the parties involved to resolve and the police to investigate for further legal action. I'm supporting esf CEO to request for the removal of video clips, the ESF did contact the club to remove the clip first, but it was not successful, then they ask lawyer to write letters. This sounds reasonable, when cyber bullying is deteriorates rapidly in just a few days, so this must be handled promptly.
The boy must apologize to the injured boy in person, but did he do it yet? We don't know because we are all not involved, the boy does not need to do it in public.
作者: no-bully 時間: 12-3-16 19:31
ESF does not have intellectual rights of the clips. Also, the clips was filmed at public place and covered a punch of people (not just the number 2). If it is illegal, the police already asked YouTube to take them down.
Agreed that there should not have cyber bullying, but the clip did give some ideas of how bad the incident was and raise awareness of parents.
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-3-16 19:47 標題: 引用：ESF+does+not+have+intellectual+rights+of
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作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-16 19:59
ESF CEO stressed a few times in the letter that she concerned about the impact of the Youtube videos on the boy, as all those aggressive and threatening criticisms in public do a lot of damage to the kid, it unavoidably results in cyber bullying. ESF requested for the video close down because of the above reason. This is fairly reasonable. This video serves best as an evidence for the police's investigation, we are all aiming that the boy should face some disciplinary actions, apologize (he did it or not?) and other compensation, but all these are just between the parties involved, they don't have to become the spotlight in public.
We don't really need those video clips published in public to remind us, in contrast the videos caused damages more than a reminder, right? As parents, we must always teach our children the right values.
作者: easydad 時間: 12-3-17 00:37
本帖最後由 easydad 於 12-3-17 00:42 編輯
We all know kids can be wild but there is a limit. Right after the kicker made the blow, as a responsible parent, I would jump in to apologize and offer medical checkup/follow up. This would the be least I could do. Instead, the coach yelled at the parents like nothing happened. Later, ESF even got lawyers involved instead of a sincere letter to request for youtube removal. (Thou this won't work on internet.) In the letter from CEO, the incident was phrased as "making a kick that contacted the head of a Kitchee Escola player".
Education is more than just feeding book knowledge. It is also about value and character building. I fail to see how I can pass my kids to a bunch of people with such mentality in mind.
BTW, I am shocked to see there are people still agreeing to ESL's approach to this incident after they really watched the clip.... Imagine how we would react if the victim were our kid. Again, there is a limit for everything ...
作者: edea 時間: 12-3-17 01:10 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+easydad+於+12-3-17+00:42+編
原帖由 easydad 於 12-03-17 發表
本帖最後由 easydad 於 12-3-17 00:42 編輯
We all know kids can be wild but there is a limit. Righ ...
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-17 09:24
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-17 11:19 編輯
No one thinks the boy's behaviour is acceptable in the match, he really did make a serious mistake, he would face disciplinary action, no one denied it, and I can't see ESF CEO denied it either. But the point is, will publishing in youtube and aggressive/threatening comments on internet help this incident? The answer is definitely no, it just unavoidably and eventually ends up cyber bullying, it really does a lot of harms. What actually are we aiming to see? We all just want the boy should face disciplinary action, apologize to the victim, and compensate for victim's medical fee, etc. But why it should be done in the spotlight of media?? ESF CEO stressed they did FIRST attempt (without lawyer's letter) to request Kitchee club on Sunday evening for closing up a video clip, unfortunately it's not successful, and it turned out 2 video clips posted in youtube. Every one agrees cyber bullying is also not acceptable, right? Cyber bullying can deteriorate very rapidly, even just in a day, so it's really very reasonable that ESF CEO take a prompt action and a firmer approach to stop this from deteriorating (hopefully), she just tried to stop this without delay. ESF CEO states in the letter that the lawyer's letter just reflects their concerns about the impact on the kid of the videos and request them to remove the videos, what is wrong about it?? Unfortunately, the video clips are still not removed, it really proves that once cyber bullying starts, it is really hard to stop.....this is the concern of the ESF CEO.
Regarding the boy's parents, no one here said that the way of his parents' handling the incident is right, at least they did not teach their son to apologise or follow up at once, they have to and will learn the correct parenting from this incident to avoid this happen again. Regarding the coach, I saw the coach yelled at the parents and I also saw a few parents physically shoved the coach, so who started it and how did it start? If the coach was proved to be rude, he will face his disciplinary action too. They (boy, boy's parents, victim, victim's parents, the coach, and/or the other parents involved) are the ones who need to resolve this conflict(apology or whatever), this incident has been filed to the police, investigation will be carried out, but again do they have to resolve it in the spotlight of media??
Anyway, why don't we leave this for the parties involved to resolve? Any disciplinary action, apologies and compensation are within them, not us, right??
As parents, we have to setup a model (including stop cyber bullying), in order to teach our children the right values. We also should teach children to do the right thing and confess when they made mistakes, but at the same time we should give them a chance, right? Actually, I think that boy might have emotional problem, he might need to seek for consultation.
Just an example, if a kid misbehaved at a school, let's say he hit another boy intentionally in his class, the teacher would normally resolve this between the boys and their parents, or if still not resolved will be escalated this incident to the principal and then the police, right? Do we need to tape it and publish it on youtube for everyone's to judge or criticize?
作者: peter_pan 時間: 12-3-17 11:05
If a school kid did such a malicious kick intentionally at someone's head in school ground, he would have been suspended right away and very likely kicked out of school!
I am not condoling cyber-bullying, but I do feel that ESF has not faced up to the serious nature of their student's action.
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-17 11:17
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-17 11:30 編輯
Really happy to see that most of you here are against the cyber bullying.
ESF CEO did stress that the boy made a serious mistake and appropriate action will be taken to deal with this incident, and there also will be disciplinary action. Perhaps the school will give a severe warning to the kid first, or will suspense him, or kick him out straight away. Anyway, the boy will face disciplinary action for sure, but just not in the spotlight of media, that's all.
作者: easydad 時間: 12-3-17 11:54
本帖最後由 easydad 於 12-3-17 12:24 編輯
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I cannot agree to your comment totally.
If the victim felt justice was being done, the whole incident would not evolve this way. Given that the victim did not report to police until they received legal letters, they should not be the harsh type. If one looks at subsequent events, one can conclude that the school lacks sincerity in trying to solve the issue. Without youtube, the incident would not be known widely and the chance for getting real apology would be easy to guess.
As for ESF's earlier attempt to request for youtube withdrawal, if it was done in a well mannered fashion, 2-way communication should start. Then, ESF should know the clip was not uploaded by Kitchee or related parents. Legal letters would therefore not be sent and they would not ended up provoking parents to report the case to police. It is ESF's handling that pushed the matter to a point of no return. This attempt also revealed the management at ESF lack common sense re internet.
Yet, I do agree to your writing in theory. Just that it only applies to parties that are responsible and honorable.
Btw, even if both sides have done certain things unappropriately before the kick, there is a matter of degree and scale. If I stepped on you, do you have the right to kill me? After the whole incident happened, the parents/school should step in to solve and educate appropriately.
I am not related to Kitchee. Nor do I have anything against ESF. I voice out because I care, as a parent. It is what we do today that shape our kid's world tomorrow. Anyway, I have spent too much time on this already. Hope this incident can be handled with sincerity and wisdom going forward.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-3-17 12:19
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-3-17 13:12 編輯
easydad 發表於 12-3-17 11:54
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I cannot agree to your comment totally.
If I stepped on you, do you have the right to kill me?
No. But if you won 16-0 against me in the first match and 4-0 against me in the first half of the re-match, then I might have the right to kill you by kicking your face in. Well, my coach said nothing afterwards, did he? So what did I do wrong?.
Yes, our team did play rough and go in hard. We also made pretty bad fouls. So what? Again, our coach was there watching all the time. If he had thought that we shouldn't play that way, he would have talked to us and stopped us, wouldn't he?
Really, I don't understand why I am now taking all the blame? You know, the CEO of ESF said in her letter that appropriate action will be taken to deal with this incident. Even adults like her still can't figure out what to do after so many days, how could you expect a 10 year old kid like me to know what to do especially when I only did the kick in the heat of the moment?
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-17 13:36
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-17 16:55 編輯
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But what made you think or stated anywhere that ESF CEO had requested Kitchee Club in not a well-manner at her first attempt? Kitchee parents did tape the incident and posted it on YouTube, that's why ESF CEO had contacted Kitchee to press for the request. Have u read Director Cheung's article published the day after the incident (remarks: Director Cheung is one of the Kitchee parent), he did mentioned that some Kitchee parents taped the incident, and he wrote 'We put it on YouTube'. So there is a good reason why ESF CEO approached them for the removal.
But when you think again, the video clips published on youtube was obviously not a positive approach to start with, as no video clips ever published on youtube which will result in cyber-bullying, then ESF CEO wouldn't have requested once and again the Kitchee club to remove it, and led to the result of issuing lawyer's letter.....Anyway, hope all this conflict will be resolved.
All in all, we all care and wish the victim will recover soon, and any appropriate disciplinary actions will be resulted, but we should put cyber bullying to an end. We always must teach our kids the right values.
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-17 14:03
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-17 14:32 編輯
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The ESF CEO did state in the letter that 'all of the adults involved in physical sporting activities, managers, coaches, referees, spectators and parents, have a responsibility to teach children fair and responsible sporting behaviour and ESL is committed to the highest standards in that respect. Appropriate action will be taken to deal with this incident...', so appropriate action will be taken to the adults (coach, boy's parents and whoever) not able to meet this standard, she did not bias anyone, right? If you ask whether appropriate actions (disciplinary actions, apologies, and compensations) are yet done or in progress or not, leave it to the parties involved.
作者: no-bully 時間: 12-3-17 15:23
If ESF managed the issue properly in the very beginning, it would not be the spotlight of media. If this issue is not worthy of public concerns, it won't cause so much public discussion.
Like kidnaping incidents, it is not uncommon issue but it causes strong public reactions recently. You may say that the parents are over-reacting, but that's life in HK, whether you like it or not.
作者: easydad 時間: 12-3-17 17:14
本帖最後由 easydad 於 12-3-17 17:15 編輯
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If someone asked me to quit something I never did nicely, I would just say "I did not do it". This could have avoided all the unnecessary and wrongly sent letters that escalated the whole problem.
Of coz, I did read the remarks of the original post. There are lots of parents in this game. Are you saying it is appropriate for ESF to just generalize and causally pick a few more involved parents/parties on spot and assumed they did the upload? Should we also generalize and assume all ESF kids are the same? I honestly cannot see the logic behind.
The first step to stop the matter from getting worse or stop "internet bullying" is a sincere apology. This need not be done in public. A word from victim's parents/organisation can smoothen all out.
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-17 17:25
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-17 17:25 編輯
easydad 發表於 12-3-17 17:14 
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If someone asked me to quit something I never did nicely, I would just say "I did ...
I don't get what you mean by 'If someone asked me to quit something I never did nicely, I would just say "I did not do it". This could have avoided all the unnecessary and wrongly sent letters that escalated the whole problem.'
Anyway, why did you say ESF generalize and pick a few parents for uploading the video? ESF CEO said she just asked lawyer to write to Kitchee club to press the request and also to one parent (who is Director Cheung as he did write in his article 'we' posted the youtube video, 'we' means he is one of them, otherwise he would have used 'they', right?). So I don't think ESF just casually picked some parents.....
ESF CEO did sent letters to victim's parents and kitchee club to express regrets. But if you are after the boy and boy's parents' apologies, they are responsible for it, they are the ones to do it in person, right??
作者: easydad 時間: 12-3-17 17:34
Verify and then do. Think before action. This is what I expect from a school or any adult.
Expressing "regret" and the way the incident was phrased in the letter is interesting to say the least. The school has succeeded in making the lesson very hard for the kid she claimed to protect. Whatever reasoning the school has, pls look at the result.
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-17 20:31
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-17 21:13 編輯
If everyone really did think twice before act, the boy wouldn't have kicked, the videos wouldn't have been posted, then harm would have been minimized. So everyone must bear this in mind.
ESF CEO expressed her regrets are stressed several times in the letter, please refer to it.
Nowdays, there is a trend/practice that any incidents happened are to be posted on youtube, people would then try to dig out everything from it, out of curiosity?
In this incident, for example, when a boy made a serious mistake and the incident has been posted on youtube, so make people think that then every details has to be laid out in public, is it really necessary or appropriate? Or is this really a positive way to help teaching a boy?? The parties involved should be the ones who are subjected to these details, not us, right? Any disciplinary actions, apologies and compensations are within them, not within us (the outsiders).
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-3-17 21:20
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-3-17 21:35 編輯
OKmom 發表於 12-3-17 14:03
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The ESF CEO did state in the letter that 'all of the adults involved in physical ...
If you ask whether appropriate actions (disciplinary actions, apologies, and compensations) are yet done or in progress or not, leave it to the parties involved
If everything should be left to the parties involved, the CEO didn't even have to write the letter to all the parents (which include the parents of ESF schools, Discovery College, Renaissance College and Kindergartens). She wrote because she thinks that this matter concerns a lot of people other than the parties involved. People are concerned whether and what action have been and will be taken by the ESF management and, if so, when? Appropriate action does not mean any action that will be deemed appropriate by the ESF management. It will be judged in the eyes of the parents and the general public as ESF is a school and a lot of people are entrusting their kids to them. People are relying on them to teach their kids the right value and conduct and people are expecting them to set a good example.
By the way, you still haven't answered the first 2 questions raised by the 10 year old boy concerning the inaction of the coach. Could you think of a reason to explain away his failure or refusal to take any action? If the coach was clearly wrong, why no action has been taken by the ESF management against this coach after so many days? The HK Development League has long finished his investigation and released its findings. How much longer will the ESF management need to look into the matter? A year?
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-17 22:06
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-17 22:21 編輯
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In the letter, ESF CEO did clearly express her deep regrets, admitted the boy made a serious mistake and stressed that appropriate and disciplinary actions will be taken, she promised she would follow up the incident. The ESF CEO has made this clear to the parents. Each school must have guidelines of disciplinary actions according to the kind of mistakes a kid made, so the boy will be punished in some way, the boy's and his parents apologies is a must. But she does not really have to lay out all details here, right?? What kind of disciplinary actions, apologies, and compensation the involved parties have made, why we have to know??
I don't know what are the details about the disciplinary action suggested by the league after the investigation, or have ESF carried out this disciplinary action, do you know?? Again, there must be some guidlines in the league for what kind of appropriate disciplinary actions are resulted. But there must be disciplinary actions, right? Why you have to be informed the details and monitor the progress and the judger too??
作者: easydad 時間: 12-3-17 22:21
If everyone really did think twice before act, the boy wouldn't have kicked, the videos wouldn't have been posted, then harm would have been minimized. So everyone must bear this in mind.
_________________________________________________
Well... from what I see, only one side did not think twice and pushed the whole matter to a dead corner.
Perhaps my english is terrible, the letter did mention "regret" a few times but I regret to say I sense no sincerity in it. I still failed to understand why lawyers were involved except to try to intimidate. Without all these great handling, the case would not have been reported to police. If the kid ended up being prosecuted, he should know who to thank.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-3-17 22:40
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-3-17 22:45 編輯
OKmom 發表於 12-3-17 22:06
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In the letter, ESF CEO did clearly express her deep regrets, admitted the ...
The disciplinary action to be given to the ESF boy is not of my prime concern. He is facing a police investigation already. On the other hand, I am interested to know what action will be taken against the coach. I have asked you more than once if you could come up with a reason for the coach inaction during the match. Can you? Did the CEO admit that the coach made a mistake? No! So what has stopped her from coming to a conclusion after so many days? How much longer will it take for her to make a finding? I wish to know because the CEO said in her letter that "all of the adults involved in physical sporting activities have a responsibility to teach children fair and responsible sporting behaviour and ESL is committed to the highest standards in that respect". I want to know if the CEO is just paying lip service to what she said in the letter. It's OK if you don't wish to know and I admire your complete trust placed on the CEO (as the ESF boy did with the coach). But many people would like to know especially those who have kids joining ESL to do sports. There are also other teams who might play against ESL in the future. If ESL would not admit that its coach made a mistake and actual steps will be taken to ensure such an incident won't happen again, would you allow your kids to play football with them?
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-17 22:44
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-17 22:46 編輯
I also don't understand why the video clip should be posted on youtube at the very beginning, perphaps they didn't realize how cyber bullying will do a lot of harms. ESF CEO has this concern and had been asking kitchee since Sunday night for the removal, but the poster of the youtube still did not close down the video clip, and one more clip is shown by Tuesday morning. As you see, the cyber-bullying deteriorate rapidly, that's why ESF CEO tried to stop cyber bullying by a firmer and prompt approach and asked their lawyer to write letter to stress her concern and request for a close-up, what is wrong with it?? Well, it is fair if the parents of the injured boy reported to the police if they think the boy should be prosecuted for his misbehaviour. But I don't think it is justified if they did it just because of ESF issuing lawyer's letter requesting a video close-up, if they are against this request, they should direct it to the ESF not the boy.....
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-3-17 22:59
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-3-17 23:09 編輯
OKmom 發表於 12-3-17 22:44
I also don't understand why the video clip should be posted on youtube at the very beginning, perpha ...
I guess the uploader posted the film clip for at least 3 reasons. Firstly, he wanted to show how bad and horrible the fouls and the kick were. Secondly, he wanted to show the misbehaviour and inaction of the ESF coach. Thirdly, he wanted to show the public really what happned. Let's imagine that right after the kick, the ESF coach had come running out into the pitch and tried to look at the Kitchee boy's injury. Let's imagine that the coach had apologised to the Kitchee boy and his coach and parents immediately and got the ESF boy to do the same. If they had done that, would the viewer of the film clip have been so angry? I don't think so. But what actually happened was that the coach did nothing other than shouting at the parents asking them to get off the pitch.
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-17 23:12
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-17 23:14 編輯
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
Please read again my post, I did answer you question, I don't mind to elaborate here:
ESF did mention that all adults should take their responsibilities to ensure the kid's fair play, so coach and the boy's parents or perphaps referee or whoever (behind the video), if they fail to do so, they will face the actions.
As I don't know what are the details (what and who) about the disciplinary action suggested by the league after the investigation, or have ESF carried out their disciplinary action, do you know?? Again, there must be some guidlines in the league for what kind of appropriate disciplinary actions are resulted, the league are unbiased here, right?. But there must be some sort of disciplinary actions, right? We don't have to be informed the details and monitor the progress and be the judger too.
As the ESF CEO stated in the letter that 'We accept the disciplinary action that the Hong Kong Development League Association has taken. ' I trust that the ESF has to follow the disciplinary action suggested by the the Hong Kong Development League Association, who should be the one to monitor.
Oh, I have been spending a long time expressing my view in here......very tired. But I'm glad everyone is expressing his/her views peacefully 
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-17 23:22
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
If the poster published the video clip wants to seek for justice, he must have overlooked it would uneventually result in cyber bullying will do a lot of harms, no one wish to see. There is a more positive way make use of the video clip, show it to ESF, the league and now the police for investigation, everyone wants to seek for justice, but better try the positive approach first.
I think I have to rest now.....Goodnight...
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-3-17 23:36
本帖最後由 bobbycheung 於 12-3-17 23:56 編輯
OKmom 發表於 12-3-17 23:12
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
Please read again my post, I did answer you question, I don't mind to elabo ...
Sorry for making you tired, but let me try for the last time. My question is this. Can you explain or come up with a reason why the ESF coach decided to take no immediate action during that match after seeing his players making all those terrible fouls on the Kitchee boys? In a normal match, if players are playing too roughly and aggressively against the other team or they are making bad fouls to the other team, the coach is expected (and indeed he has a duty) to talk to his players immediately and ask them to calm down etc. Obviously the ESF coach didn't do this (and in fact he didn't even act after seeing the ESF boy kicking another player). Why?
Your answer to my question is that "ESF did mention that all adults (including the coach) should take their responsibilities to ensure the kid's fair play and if any of them fail to do so, they will face the actions.". Does this explain the coach's action or inaction during that match? No, I don't think so.
My point is that if no one (including you) could possibly be able to come up with a reasonable explanation to justify the ESF coach's action or inaction in that match, the ESF coach was clearly wrong. If he was clearly wrong, then why the CEO still has not found him guilty after so many days? To me and many others, the coach's mistake is at least as obvious as the ESF boy's mistakes and they are both equally serious. Please don't tell me that we don't have to know about ESF's decision because I have already explained to you why I and many others wish to know.
See you in the morning.
作者: no-bully 時間: 12-3-18 01:14
本帖最後由 no-bully 於 12-3-18 01:17 編輯
Before I watched the clips, I thought this was a minor incident which happened often in a football match. But after finished watching the whole clips, my friends and I considered that this was outrageous.
ESF parents have concerns whether this is a systematic issue, e.g., how ESF teaches students about sportmanship and how ESF teaches students to respect individuals.
Well, I respect someone's view that the video clips should not be posted. But many others see the values in knowing what have actually happened. Afterall, there are many such kinds of video clips uploaded on the public forum. To name a few, mainland girl eating in MTR, 小學雞, ... Right or wrong?
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-18 09:18
本帖最後由 OKmom 於 12-3-18 09:24 編輯
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
I didn't mean you made me tired in my previous post, I meant I had been spending too much time expressing my views in this topic here.
Let me try my best to answer your question. This is my interpretation of the coach's reaction and what sort of actions he will face. The coach is biased to this team, and so he neglected the fouls made by his team, he tried to keep the game running regardless of these fouls, he did not demonstrate his responsibilities to teach children fair and responsible sporting behaviour. As a conclusion, the coach is not up to ESL standard, he will face an action. ESL might have already issued a warning letter to the coach, and he will be fired if he make same mistake in the future. Or perphaps the coach has lost his job already for this incident.
Regarding exact details of actions made by the ESF CEO, do we have to know the details? As stated in her letter, I'm sure she must take appropriate action to deal with incident, and she promised that ESL is committed to the highest standards in that respect, in other words, they will avoid this sort of thing to happen in the future, right? Is this a promise/relief to parents who have concerns about the standard in football club in the future?
Anyway, this is my last reply to you because I really have been spending too much time in expressing my views in this topic, and I feel I had made a very thorough sharing of my views already, I have to move on to something else.....
But please feel free to express yours.
作者: OKmom 時間: 12-3-18 09:22
Hi, all
I really have been spending too much time in expressing my very thorough views in this topic, so I have to leave this topic.
Please feel free to express your views.
作者: pixie 時間: 12-3-18 10:11 標題: 回覆：Letter from ESF to parents
可唔可以講下點為之 cyber bullying? 將一個真實事件的 video 放上 youtube, 容許觀眾自行判斷對與錯，都係 cyber bullying? 我想
作者: littleroundface 時間: 12-3-18 11:07
i think it depends on you want your girl in local stream or IS. KCS is strong for local stream.
作者: bobbycheung 時間: 12-3-18 11:50
OKmom 發表於 12-3-18 09:18
回復 bobbycheung 的帖子
I didn't mean you made me tired in my previous post, I meant I had been spe ...
作者: Chole 時間: 12-3-18 20:20
By the way, the "victim" is only 10. Who let him go to youtube, read the comments and exposed to "cyber bullying"?
作者: easydad 時間: 12-3-18 20:59
本帖最後由 easydad 於 12-3-18 21:11 編輯
Actually, there are times when certain people/organisations are stuck up to a point that they need to suffer much in order to learn a lesson, to right a wrong.
From the moment I heard legal letters were being sent, I know we better not expect proper handling from the school management. The letter from school further proved me correct unfortunately.
I don't agree to cyber-bullying but what is bullying? What is the reason for such to happen? No one welcome heat from media or internet or anyone, no one like to be caught. Yet, afraid to fall into the spotlight can help people act cautiously, reasonably and responsibly. Thus, there is always a fine line between cyber-bullying and cyber-justice-seeking.
At the end of the day, we all should be responsible for what we have done. The kicker has problem, the coach has a bigger problem, the school now has the biggest problem. We should teach our kids to be responsible but heck.... school like carpets? Naturally, kids will ask "Why can't I?".
Anyway, so much about it. I really should stop reading all these stuff to be cooooooool.
作者: Princesshoihoi 時間: 12-3-18 22:27
回復 kenfu 的帖子
cannot agree more!
作者: Princesshoihoi 時間: 12-3-18 22:34
回復 OKmom 的帖子
is it illegal to post a tape on youtube? if it is legal then ESF CEO has no right to request such removal right?
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-3-18 23:34
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作者: Princesshoihoi 時間: 12-3-18 23:49
u wanna talk about ethics? what about the ESF kid kicking the kitchee boy? was THAT ethical?????
作者: kenfu 時間: 12-3-18 23:51
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作者: madscientist 時間: 12-3-19 00:58
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作者: Yau_Cheung 時間: 12-3-22 00:40
easydad 發表於 12-3-17 00:37
We all know kids can be wild but there is a limit. Right after the kicker made the blow, as a respo ...
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