教育王國
標題: 香港英語教育出了甚麽問題？ [打印本頁]
作者: bookreader 時間: 12-1-25 19:22 標題: 香港英語教育出了甚麽問題？
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作者: SCKnight 時間: 12-1-25 22:16
唉.... 做家長嘅真係驚第日個小朋友，中文又唔得、英文又唔得。
喺冇辦法之下，唯有對香港嘅教育制度投唔信任嘅一票，去外國同國際學校囉！
作者: cherubic 時間: 12-1-26 10:54
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It is really difficult to train your kid to be truly bilingual. Usually they will prefer one language to another. If you insist they spend equal time on each one of them, you need to be patient at the first few years because they usually are not good at any one of them. From my observation, they could master both at the age of 10.
作者: bookreader 時間: 12-1-26 12:33
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作者: awah112 時間: 12-1-26 12:46
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作者: mavlam 時間: 12-1-26 14:03
the problem is that most of the schools in HK, either primary or secondary, cannot provide an effective setting to train up students' oral English. Without an environment that enables children to speak English always, it is no surprise that they cannot well present themselves orally in English.
That's a pitiful fact for most HK students. A lot more effort is necessary. Or else, sending your children overseas is another good method.
作者: awah112 時間: 12-1-26 20:20
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作者: SCKnight 時間: 12-1-26 20:33
cherubic 發表於 12-1-26 10:54 
回復 SCKnight 的帖子
It is really difficult to train your kid to be truly bilingual. Usually they ...
Agree to your point. I've also found very difficult to master both Chinese and English well at the same time. Now my kid can speak and read good English compare with same age kids. But Chinese need to worry....
作者: SCKnight 時間: 12-1-26 20:37
bookreader 發表於 12-1-26 12:33
回復 cherubic 的帖子
Training bilingual children is actually not that difficult. Because of technology advancement in the last 10-15 years, brain researches have proven that if properly trained and started early (before 3 years old, ideally 2) and with the right tools, children can learn good language. ...
I tried to let my kid read both Chinese and English books, but most of the time he picked English ones. One of then major reasons is the English books get a very well progressive reading system, and this is not easily found in Chinese children books.
作者: cherubic 時間: 12-1-26 21:12
SCKnight
How old is your kid? If you insist he/she spends equal time on English and Chinese books for sufficient time, you will see the progress. For Chinese books, we usually buy those published in Taiwan. Speaking and writing are equally important.
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-1-26 22:31
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作者: caramelpudding 時間: 12-1-27 10:57
mavlam 發表於 12-1-26 14:03 
the problem is that most of the schools in HK, either primary or secondary, cannot provide an effect ...
我同意,
加上學校英語教師的口語能力/發音亦好重要,
我有個親戚宜家响U主修英文
佢都話好多之前老師嘅讀音都係錯嘅/混合晒英美發音
(佢本身讀band 1, 區內名校)
作者: ngsmum 時間: 12-1-27 16:55
黃先生英語不好當然不是一件開心事，但另一方面，我反而覺得因為咁而嘲笑佢同時質疑埋佢既其他能力，又係好可悲。當年陳先生得到的待遇我也是這種感覺。
自問在工作上，我都能夠流利使用英語且文化正確；但要我口語上流利生動地描述一件打架的事，我也沒多大信心。這關乎使用習慣的問題。因平時使用英語，都不是這些層面的。
一個人英語口語流利不等如佢就係＂叻＂，英語口語不流利的就係差。是否一個在英國掃街能操流利英語口語的人就有能力審議競爭法和金融有關法律？我覺得香港都係一個好特別同奇怪的地方，我們會要求從政的人要操流利非母語（英語）回答傳媒提問，否則會取笑他。我相信世界上沒有一個國家地區城市國際都會會這樣要求。我就不會這樣要求從政人士，也不會拿來恥笑。
當然，我會希望佢地在工餘時間提升英語口語能力。
好像有點離題了，只是有感而發。。。
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-1-27 22:29 標題: 回覆：ngsmum 的帖子
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作者: SCKnight 時間: 12-1-27 23:50 標題: 回覆：cherubic 的帖子
My kid is 5 yrs old. I found the Chinese books in hong kong not really fit my kid. Some famous local publisher even translate US children books badly, and with a lot of local slangs.
作者: cherubic 時間: 12-1-28 00:04
SCKnight, you still have time to train your kid to be bilingual. 中文書方面，你可以每晚跟他讀一些，例如青田的我自己會讀，小樹苗出版的童書，然後是台灣出的閱讀123，小兵系列，營文蟲糸列等等。
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-1-28 00:30
回復 SCKnight 的帖子
Check Taiwan books
作者: mavlam 時間: 12-1-29 12:10
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Possessing a good English does not necessarily mean that a guy is more capable than one another. Capability is a comprehensive quality composed of various kinds of traits.
A proficient English shall give you edge on certain occasions but does not guarantee success in your career development. You can say it is important in the era of globalization because it is a global language. But still, it is only of the tools for communication.
It is no wise to just look at English but neglect other kinds of quality. After all, according to Hongkongers' conventional definition of success, the successful guys do not make it because they possess English much more proficient than others but many other kinds of factors such as interpersonal skills, courage, insights & luck etc.
作者: smallfoothk 時間: 12-1-29 12:44
不是香港的英語有問題連香港的國語都有問題,好簡單現大學生見工,英語不見好,國語有本地音,人家聽不明白.學校老師都.....
作者: ngsmum 時間: 12-1-30 14:02
madscientist 發表於 12-1-27 22:29
拒絕用英文，然後用中文回答，相信沒有人會取笑他。這事件反映出的，不是大學生英文差勁，是他沒自知之明， ...
中國人，英語流利點的，對自己中文不好大言不慚，甚至說時沾沾自喜，聽眾也不會覺得有問題；英文不好的，被人恥笑，則只好默默承受是事則，只怪自己學藝不精。這種情況，常令我想起一詞：＂笑貧不笑娼＂。貧＝英文不好；娼＝中文不好。－－這是我覺得最可悲之處。
作者: bookreader 時間: 12-1-30 15:29
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作者: iodine 時間: 12-1-30 18:06
A person with poor verbal English does not necessarily mean his writing, reading & listening are poor.
If a mute person can be a professor and a stammering author can be famous, I cannot see why a social worker must speak "good" English unless his clients are mainly foreigners.
作者: motherotk 時間: 12-1-30 21:26
本帖最後由 motherotk 於 12-2-1 00:31 編輯
I believe a social worker needs to have basic bilingual competence as social workers need to communicate with people verbally with all kinds of people, including both Chinese speaking and English speaking clients.
Without basic communication abilities, how can he handle the work challenges he is facing as a legislator..facing the public and clearly presenting his point of views. Don't waste public's time in listening to messages that we don't understand, this is his responsibilities!!!
Of course, this is not a personal attack, does not diminish his personality, but as a social worker and a legislator, he should meet basic bilingual communication skills to meet his work requirements. He is not a writer or having a job working with mechines, he is a social worker working with people (need verbal communication)..no excuse at all without good bilingual communication skills.
From the Utube, I cannot understand what he is saying, he cannot communicate himself well, not doing his job well..He is not a social worker now, he is a legislator, he needs to be responsible to the public!! Knows his own limitations and find someone capable to help him out to communicate clearly.
作者: hk_packychan 時間: 12-1-31 00:29
我自己本身英文都唔太好，所以我覺得都係要比一個好D 的學英文環境個仔。。。。而家佢未可以出外讀書， 唯有揀學校時找Native English Teacher 的學校同language centre 去學。。。廢事教左D Chinglish 出黎。。。。
作者: madscientist 時間: 12-1-31 02:09 標題: 引用：Quote:madscientist+發表於+12-1-27+22:29+
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作者: motherotk 時間: 12-1-31 08:47
Having "Chinglish" is ok, at least is clearly understood by people. I believe a lots of civil servants are presenting themselves with "chinlish", that's pretty understandable as we are living in a Chinese context, no shame at all for that.
But at least you need to have people understand what you said if your job require you to do so.
I would suggest this legislator to ask for a translator to translate for him next time when facing the media or working with his clients, at least people understand. This should be more responsible than saying something that people don't understand, waisting people's time!
作者: bookreader 時間: 12-1-31 10:41
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作者: 天天譯 時間: 12-1-31 11:06
真係好難想像可以差成咁。
唔用英文發言可以接受。
但夾硬在傳媒面前講成咁，真係唔識諗。
作者: miffy 時間: 12-1-31 12:25
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作者: madscientist 時間: 12-1-31 13:34 標題: 引用：因為香港係單向教學,+老師講學生唔洗講,+考
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作者: madscientist 時間: 12-1-31 13:37 標題: 引用：We+can+have+a+lot+of+reasons+for+not+spe
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作者: iodine 時間: 12-1-31 13:55
bookreader 發表於 12-1-31 10:41
But as parents, I do want my children to learn good English. Because I want them to be able to read first hand the latest global economic trend, academic and scientific breakthrough, and the most innovative ideas, and successful stories of people around the world.
Do you know what is the first hand information in science?
作者: iodine 時間: 12-1-31 14:06
There are many many many many jobs that involve social workers. For example, native english speaking is a must if an international school is hiring an in-house counsellor.
But what I was talking was the general requirement of a social worker.
This standard is set by professional and academic bodies, not anybody in a forum.
1. I am not a social worker, can someone enlighten me whether a mute social worker will be removed from the SW register of HK or overseas?
2. Google "social working IELTS", you will find the university language requirements. 6.5 is usually required by overseas universities.
作者: bookreader 時間: 12-1-31 14:48
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作者: iodine 時間: 12-1-31 16:49
bookreader 發表於 12-1-31 14:48
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I am now reading a book by Richard Dawkins. You can google about Dawkins and fin ...
I guess you meaning of "first hand" is books in original language and not a translated one.
In academia, there is no terms like "first hand scientific knowledge" but if you speak to a faculty, he will ask you to read original research papers in peer-reviews journals.
作者: bookreader 時間: 12-1-31 17:26
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作者: ngsmum 時間: 12-1-31 19:16
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對不起的確說得太遠又表達得不好。
不過我也不是說強國人有錢大晒就不用學好英語。不是的，英語當然重要。但是，是否一個人英語口語不濟就要被人上綱上線到其他能力都有問題呢？
另一方面，卻好像從來沒有人會說，一個人無論中文口語或書寫不好，他的其他能力一定都有問題丶不可靠。我是覺得這種這態度有點偏頗盲目，無助我們真正學好英語或其他語文。
會不會，我們太過盲目重視英語，而忽略了學習母語，在母語語言運用方面學得廣而深，反而有助我們學習英語呢？
至於現今本港”精英＂英語口語不濟，我也覺得是語言環境問題；如非工作上需要常用英語口語跟人溝通，（特別是要運用日常社交生活用語而非只限工作範疇的），我們實在很少機會說英語，這方面的能力自然不濟。
闗於學好英文，因家有幼兒，我也是摸著石頭過河，望大家多多交流指點。
作者: awah112 時間: 12-1-31 22:47
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作者: motherotk 時間: 12-2-1 00:26
Not knowing what he was saying when he described the incidents...indicating his poor communication skills when using English. This is the facts we all observed..
He should ask for help next time, at least find a translator to help him to communicate clearly. He needs to have awareness that as a legislator, communicating clearly to the public is important as well as a social worker or a customer service representative....or as a teacher or as .....
作者: bookreader 時間: 12-2-2 11:40
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作者: 天天譯 時間: 12-2-2 13:01
bookreader 發表於 12-2-2 11:40
香港的小朋友其實比亞洲其他地方優勝，因為接觸英語的機會很多，但父母要作榜樣、有恒心，多陪小朋友去圖書 ...
作者: Caduceus 時間: 12-10-23 21:46 標題: bookreader 的帖子
香港啲英文老師大多平桶水，又未出過國，好日都唔講句英文，唔好期望教得我地啲仔女好！
作者: judy 時間: 12-10-24 10:29
英語說得好是一種能力，懂阿拉伯話是一種能力，善於組組織是一種能力，識計數是一種能力，精於發明創造是一種能力....。天生我才必有用，我愿港人能凭能力掙到應有的報酬和尊嚴。不要象我輩或我上一輩一樣，明明能力出衆，卻被一些只是英文好點的"人材"騎住。
說起陳克勤和黄成智，我們可以話:咩咁差嘅，讀咁多年書英文都搞成咁。但記住，英文能力差並不代表佢地語文能力差，也不代表佢地做不成稱責議員。
罷黜百家，只重英語，是非常不建康之形象。
作者: venuscc 時間: 12-10-24 14:01
作者: venuscc 時間: 12-10-24 14:01
作者: goodwillhunt 時間: 12-10-24 19:43 標題: 回覆：cherubic 的帖子
作者: Tommy 時間: 12-10-24 21:21
judy 發表於 12-10-24 10:29
英語說得好是一種能力，懂阿拉伯話是一種能力，善於組組織是一種能力，識計數是一種能力，精於發明創造是一 ...
早前我上載黃成智的火星文在這裡，我承認我係要做佢世界，亦預計了版主會移走那個話題。哈哈！可能我用了一個同教育好似有關的標題，結果獲版主網開一面，反而我有份參與討論的其他教育議題，共有十個議題被剷走。
我要做佢世界唔係因為佢英文差，而係佢係議會內外的表現不稱職。我要証明佢不稱職，我可以寫一萬字，但無人會有興趣睇；但我上載一個片段，就有人會因為以偏概全而達到同一樣的結論。噢！可能這個話題好快又會被剷走了。
作者: felix626 時間: 12-10-24 22:18
因為學校教既都係理論上既用語
日常用語完全無教
作者: cherubic 時間: 12-10-24 22:22
回復 judy 的帖子
只重英語當然是不太好，要知道在香港中文會變得越來越重要。我們的子女將來的競爭對手相信有一大部份來自國內，亦有不少是來自東南亞。國內的教育已越來越著重英文，如我們鬆懈，便會被追上。根據現在的情况，我看我們仍有一點優勢，維持多久，就要靠大家的努力。
我是一位非常著重英文的家長，但我更著重presentation skill 及表達方法及能力。如果一個有實力的人，他沒有好的表達能力，他很難有機會爬上高位。
作者: Tommy 時間: 12-10-24 22:24
stillgood2,
我果陣唔知有個咁既區，我好耐無去果邊，不過最近果邊成個時事討論區都被剷走了。
作者: mirage 時間: 12-10-25 08:05
香港小孩學中文要學兩種spoken language,仲難過英文。要搵有字母拼音的繁體中文書本地出版的很少，台灣出的用詞及外國翻譯名同香港有出入。
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-10-25 09:27 標題: 回覆：cherubic 的帖子
本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 12-10-25 12:35 編輯
我認同你的分析，只要張開眼睛便知道，香港因為英文水平的下跌，國內英文水平提升，更多國內學生在外國升學兼就業，英語只會越來越好。加上中文無大問題，只比香港好，網路關係好，香港下一代危了。
死抓住中文，只有死路一條，香港在國內融合中邊緣化，在國際上亦邊緣化。撇開政治考量，我反而多謝陳方安生勉強保住110+英中。
好多時香港教育問題源於家長，拉低香港英文水平及重要性是於事無補，因為世界是平的，我們淪落，但其他地區不會放軟手腳，香港只會更落後，最開心是星架坡政府。
作者: cow 時間: 12-10-25 10:11
ANChan59 發表於 12-10-25 09:27
我認同你的分析，只要張開眼睛便知道，香港因為英文水平的下跌，國內英文水平提升，更多國內學生在外國升學 ...
國內英文水平提升(絕對係.)
台灣英文水平的下跌(我覺得係)
香港英文水平下跌(我唔覺得係)
作者: awah112 時間: 12-10-25 10:49
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作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-10-25 10:57
本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 12-10-25 12:36 編輯
awah112 發表於 12-10-25 10:49
Agree,而且香港現在英文水平出現兩極，好既好叻，差既連幾多個字母都未搞得掂。 ...
人在海外看香港，你體會更深。
在專業團體，班教授呻到樹葉都落埋，唉，大學生中英文都唔得呀！尖子除外！
兩文三語，冇乜選擇！
作者: cherubic 時間: 12-10-25 11:07
回復 awah112 的帖子
Nowadays, many parents put more resources on children's education especially English. Most are willing to pay for after-school classes. Many children's time-table are fully packed. However, English standard in general is still unsatisfactory. I try to find the reasons, which may be
(1) Children are not clever enough [which I don't believe];
(2) School curriculum is not good enough [probably];
(3) The standard of after-school classes varies [certainly];
(4) Childern do not have spare time to think and digest [probably];
(5) Parents themselves do not spend time and effort [probably];
(6) Any others?
作者: awah112 時間: 12-10-25 11:33
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作者: judy 時間: 12-10-25 11:39
只重英語當然是不太好，要知道在香港中文會變得越來越重要。我們的子女將來的競爭對手相信有一大部份來自國內，亦有不少是來自東南亞。國內的教育已越來越著重英文，如我們鬆懈，便會被追上。根據現在的情况，我看我們仍有一點優勢，維持多久，就要靠大家的努力。
我是一位非常著重英文的家長，但我更著重presentation skill 及表達方法及能力。如果一個有實力的人，他沒有好的表達能力，他很難有機會爬上高位。
cherubic,
我也重視英文，我自小培養孩子之閱讀習慣，謝天謝地，孩子的英文都不太差。
是的，大陸也重視英文，但也有點兒將英文當成關口，阻礙人才的發展，浪費社会資源，己引起反思。
一個社会之發展，係睇本地人的能力。日本、南韓、德國、丹麥、瑞典等等，都是睇其國人有冇耍家本領，不是睇其有冇presentation能力，更不是睇英文能力。一個正常的社会，是常態分佈的，七百萬人口，自自然然有人精於presentation，有人結結巴巴，但精於其他方面。
其實，港人能夠有咁嘅成就，也絕對唔係僅僅英文較大陸出眾，而是制度、文化、市民質素都出色之故。我常常引菲律賓為例。戰後，菲律賓是亚州金融中心，一披索換一美金，英文能力亚州之冠，是美國首席契仔。請問，菲律賓依家點？英文好，方便到各地做菲佣而已。
所以，尊重各方人材，讓各人有自由發展空間，才是正路。
有好的產品，presentation skill 才有用武之地。
作者: Stillgood2 時間: 12-10-25 12:01
香港是一個競爭型國際大都會. 所以, 香港父母特別注意孩子的競爭力. 那反映在學校生活上, 成績和各科能力的比併.
回歸後,中文水平要求提高, 再加入普通話, 又要跟中國學生比併中文水平, 又話普通話水平達國家級.
英文嗎? 要保持水平, 不可落後英國學子. (有些要求高的, 英文還要比英國人好才合意).
數學, 追求不只是課堂水平. 更要中一有中,三水平. 普通數學外, 還要加強, 比如奧數.
其餘, 還要通識, 追貼時事, 又要有獨立思考, 批判性....
再來, 品格要求高, 要有領導材能, 服從性, 更要有創造性.
(我忘記了, 還有材藝的學習和比賽, 鋼琴, 小提琴, 游泳, 高爾夫球)
(我又忘記了, 外表, 家底)
香港小朋友可以做到嗎???? 可以, 還要更上一層樓嗎? 大家都想.
回來, 再說英文: 英文確實重要, 不容致疑!
作者: judy 時間: 12-10-25 12:15
最近睇美國大選，其中一大重點就是：中國現在和我們争食，怎麽辦？
我想，如果街市王國的國民到那里，一定會提出配方：增強美國之英文能力或中文能力！
作者: samuel89 時間: 12-10-25 12:24
ANChan59 發表於 12-10-25 09:27
好多時香港教育問題源於家長，拉低香港英文水平及重要性是於事無補，因為世界是平的，我們淪落，但其他地區不會放軟手腳，只會更落後，最開心是星架坡政府。
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-10-25 12:39
awah112 發表於 12-10-25 11:33
其一是缺乏英語環境，侄仔喺香港學校英文成績算叻，但剛去到英國時完全溝通唔到，不過只要半年時間習慣就冇 ...
我識不少香港同學唔同外籍同學玩，成日群住香港人，當年日日煲劇集，話在英美加澳十年八年，但英語真係進步有限。
作者: Brenday 時間: 12-10-25 18:25
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作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-10-26 01:26
I think it is the lack of an English environment. If one watches English news, TV shows or movies often, then their English can't be that bad. For myself, my English only really picked up after I left and studied in the US. To be able to use a language effectively, I think one needs to be "immersed" in that environment.
The level of English in HK is very dichotomized. The students at international schools should be fine and the bigger concern is on their Chinese. The level of English at local schools, with the exception of a few, is atrocious. Most don't seem to be able to express themselves whether in an interview or a presentation.
The one question I do wonder about is the switch by many schools to teaching Chinese in mandarin. Would this also further dilute down the level of Chinese in HK? Most people do not speak mandarin at home and if the only opportunity for them to use mandarin is for an hour or two a day in their Chinese lesson, is this enough? Would students be able to acquire fluency and sufficient vocabulary to one day work in a mandarin only setting?
作者: bookreader 時間: 12-10-30 13:50
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作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-10-30 16:07
Personally, I think the children from China will catch up very quickly. Many of them now choose to study abroad at some point. And those children will be as fluent as most HK kids if not more so.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-10-30 16:53
回復 bookreader 的帖子
當大家將角度由國內轉往在海外讀中學的國內孩子，你講的情況跟我所見，有頗大落差。我唔會單看傳統國內畢業生。
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-10-30 16:57
回復 ANChan59 的帖子
Honestly, for those studying abroad, I often find the kids from China more hungry and driven which is an advantage over HK kids.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-10-30 17:00
HKTHK 發表於 12-10-30 16:57
回復 ANChan59 的帖子
Honestly, for those studying abroad, I often find the kids from China more hun ...
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-10-30 17:09
回復 ANChan59 的帖子
Kind of leads to the more important question, do HK kids have an edge anymore?
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-10-30 17:27
HKTHK 發表於 12-10-30 17:09
回復 ANChan59 的帖子
Kind of leads to the more important question, do HK kids have an edge anymore? ...
Unfortunately, some parents don't even see the threat(s).
作者: ahdee 時間: 12-10-31 00:20 標題: 回覆：ANChan59 的帖子
Agree in most areas that students from China are better than local students. However, from my own experience with the graduate students from China and HK, local students might be more adaptable to team work than their peers from China. At least in terms of team management (not necessary the deliverables as some individuals from China are really bright), our kids are a bit better. I guess probably under "one child" policy, kids from China put a really strong emphasis on individual success rather than team work.
作者: CHAN-2 時間: 12-10-31 10:30
內地尖子教八十後跳槽
你相信數字人生嗎？如果相信，陳曉瑋（Vikey）的人生，怕且相當美滿！25歲，七年前來港、畢業三年、做過五份工，全是全球500大企業，每份平均加薪35％，最高五成。仲有閒情花半年執筆寫書，教八十後跳槽之道。這名以一級榮譽大學畢業的內地尖子，會擔心被港人狂轟搶飯碗推高樓價，成為港女勁敵嗎？「今年住滿七年，我都係香港人！」小妮子如是說。
曾犯低級錯誤
因為陳曉瑋在亞瑪遜出版的英文電子新書《Quit Small Jobs, Make Big Money》（八十後教你跳槽搵錢），記者約她在母校浸大接受訪問，甫見面即遞上履歷表（CV）：主修人力資源管理，GPA3.68（最高4），四年前在美國做交流生，GPA3.92。做過迪士尼、飛利浦等大公司，自信爆棚。
「我讀HR，偏偏犯咗HR大忌，兩年轉五份工，好多前輩都話犯咗呢行最低級嘅錯誤，但我認為人生毋須特定公式。只要說服到你面試嘅公司，你有能力幫佢哋創造到好嘅業績，Why not？」手袋隨身帶備CV，不放過任何機會。畢業三年，投寄的求職信不下1,000封，面試次數早過100次。
勇於爭取機會
「去美國交流嗰一年，別人趁假期去旅行，我就寄信去大公司要求實習，有跨國公司總裁嚟學校演講，一下台我就衝上前遞上CV，終於爭取到實習機會」。成績超班、自信進取，擁有中港經驗，小妮子的「跳槽實戰攻略」，是否適用於一般大學生，見仁見智，作為競爭力強勁的內地尖子，在港讀書、求職，甚至置業，她認為自己的出現，是種威脅嗎？
「我係比較幸運嘅一群，居港讀書、工作七年，覺得香港係一個包容多元嘅社會，從來唔覺得被歧視。作為外來人，我睇到香港嘅好，自由社會，否則我都唔可以轉咁多份工，喺內地，某程度要靠關係，呢個係香港優勝之處」。她說。
來自廣州，父親是五金皮革商人，有一個細11年的「超生」妹妹。孤身在港，她說正努力儲首期，準備一批出香港永久居民身份，就向銀行按揭買樓，「會買遠一啲，香港嘅樓唔平，做九成按揭，剩番啲錢供架車代步」。
記者呂麗嬋
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/art/20121031/18053273
作者: cow 時間: 12-10-31 10:51
ahdee 發表於 12-10-31 00:20
[size=15.454545021057129px] local students might be more adaptable to team work than their peers from China
作者: awah112 時間: 12-10-31 11:27
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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-10-31 22:20
Brenday 發表於 12-10-25 18:25
香港英語教育出了甚麽問題？應該改為香港的教育出了甚麽問題？
才對！
作者: CHAN-2 時間: 12-11-1 11:56
shadeslayer 發表於 12-10-31 22:20
"但有那一個地區或國家的學生由三歲起認真學英文，日日上英文堂，課外和課內的課時是天文數字，但中學畢業後，卻有大量學生未能以英語有效一地和外國人交流？"
這是否贏在起跑線，輸在終點？
作者: cherubic 時間: 12-11-1 13:22
"卻有大量學生未能以英語有效一地和外國人交流？"
This is due to a lack of sufficient opportunity to speak English. In most schools, the teaching is one-way - listen then memorize without too many chances to give own view.
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-1 13:39 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+12-10-31+22:20+
原帖由 CHAN-2 於 12-11-01 發表
這是否贏在起跑線，輸在終點？
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-1 13:49 標題: 引用："卻有大量學生未能以英語有效一地和外國人
原帖由 cherubic 於 12-11-01 發表
"卻有大量學生未能以英語有效一地和外國人交流？"
This is due to a lack of sufficient opportunity to s ...
All in all, as I said, spending 13 years or more learning English seriously inside and outside of classroom, and yet the average English level is not reaching a working level. This is really appalling.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 12-11-1 16:35
回復 shadeslayer 的帖子
Agree. It is also an OFFICIAL language of HK.
作者: CHAN-2 時間: 12-11-2 08:23 標題: 引用：回復+bookreader+的帖子
當大家將角度由國
原帖由 ANChan59 於 12-10-30 發表
回復 bookreader 的帖子
當大家將角度由國內轉往在海外讀中學的國內孩子，你講的情況跟我所見，有頗大落差 ...
從他的經歷，我看到一事，香港小朋友很早就開始學英文，也不見得有優勢。要學好英文其實不須要那麼長時間。另外，這些海外回來的國內朋友，是很受駐港跨國公司歡迎的，比本地生還有競爭力。
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-2 16:32 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+ANChan59+於+12-10-30+發表回
原帖由 CHAN-2 於 12-11-02 發表
認識一個八十後國內朋友，他在國內大學畢業後才去美國一間大學進修，讀數學碩士，之後博士，期間在大學做助 ...
問題是，香港人有不錯的機會接觸英文，而且以天文數字的錢和課時學英文，又補習又教材，又贏在起跑點，究竟為甚麼學生的能力和付出如此不成比例？
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-2 17:09 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+ANChan59+於+12-10-30+發表回
原帖由 CHAN-2 於 12-11-02 發表
認識一個八十後國內朋友，他在國內大學畢業後才去美國一間大學進修，讀數學碩士，之後博士，期間在大學做助 ...
問題是，香港人有不錯的機會接觸英文，而且以天文數字的錢和課時學英文，又補習又教材，又贏在起跑點，究竟為甚麼學生的能力和付出如此不成比例？
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-11-2 17:22
本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 12-11-2 17:42 編輯
當年孩子小時，鄰居有不少外籍人仕，包括小朋友。每日一齊在公園玩或䢟水，所以英語會話十分流利。
到小學，功課不算多，因為要學這樣，學那樣，反而跟外籍小朋友來往少了，英語水平下跌。到小二，兒子要求讀中中，因為部份同學的哥哥姐姐讀中中。所以我們知道問題開始出現，我們安排他去旅行，看看到外面去，不能靠廣東話，要兩文三語，中中不是一個選擇。
到中學，英文口語及書寫一直倒退（負增值較適合）。到中三又會有變化，因為小朋友都知道中英數分數雙計，排名高優先選科。小朋友又會進步，到入到lB，整個語境改變了，大部份上課一定是英語，presentation & discussion 以英語為主，老師大多是外籍老師，因此口語及書寫又再上另一個臺階。現在看他的論文，TOK功課，personal statement 都超越我高中的英文水平。
總結是語境，學習動機，師資及前途會對真心學好英語起關鍵作用。
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-2 19:23 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+ANChan59+於+12-11-2+17:42+編
原帖由 ANChan59 於 12-11-02 發表
本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 12-11-2 17:42 編輯
當年孩子小時，鄰居有不少外籍人仕，包括小朋友。每日一齊 ...
Most families do not have foreigner neighbors or do not have access to IBDP. Is there something we can learn from your successful case? What can we, as a society, change to improve English. I know it is a million dollar question, but I will ask anyway.
作者: Yanamami 時間: 12-11-2 20:10
本帖最後由 Yanamami 於 12-11-2 20:22 編輯
shadeslayer 發表於 12-11-2 19:23
ANChan,
Most families do not have foreigner neighbors or do not have access to IBDP. Is there some ...
Just to creat an environment for the language I suppose. When my girl was little, she watched only English videos like High5/ Wiggles/ Barney/ Disney cartoons..etc. Reading is a much of course. She also attended phonics and writing classes (not grammar classes). It's grateful that she has a few net teachers at her primary school and she feels comfortable talking with them in English. Like all teens, she chases all the news about her idols from the US/ UK/ Canada. Of course she won't miss their movies and TV programmes. I myself enjoy watching programmes on TLC/ Discovery/ Home & Health/ Animal Planet...etc, my kids follow. The only thing I want her to improve is her conversational English. As you said, we don't have foreigner neighbours. All I can do is to encourage her to talk with her net teacher at school. I won't say her English is any good but it seems she has not much trouble handling the subject at school.
作者: cherubic 時間: 12-11-2 22:28
回復 shadeslayer 的帖子
Perhaps the reason is students do not have chance to use the language. In the school, students learn much grammar and do different kind of exercise. However, they never have a chance to use it. If they have a job which requires them to use English, e. g selling coffee at Starbucks, I am sure their oral will improve a lot.
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-2 23:34
The DSS scheme is some of the few education policies that I support. It gives schools leeway to experiment different curriculum.
I asked the question, what can schools do to improve HK's average English? May be we can learn a few things from a DSS school: HKUGA.
The first cohort of HKUGA DSE graduates matched traditional elite school (Bellios) in English. They will only get better. Don't forget:
1. HKUGA did not select their first batch of students.
2. HKUGA fee is only around 2k, a fraction of IS or local IB schools.
3. They use a non-traditional way to teach English.
I think the English result is better than anyone could have hoped for, and is obviously above HK average. Have the other subjects suffer as a result of good English. I am not sure, but it does not seem to be the case.
Has HKUGA showed us the ultimate answer for improving English in mainstream schools in HK? The answer that educators and parents alike have been searching forever? Why don't we copy the English curriculum of HKUGA and apply to local schools?
Disclaimer: My child is not a HKUGA student.
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 12-11-2 23:39
Yanamami 發表於 12-11-2 20:10
Just to creat an environment for the language I suppose. When my girl was little, she watched only ...
作者: ANChan59 時間: 12-11-3 00:30
回復 shadeslayer 的帖子
Do you know schools don't teach grammar in English class?
作者: EmilyNg2012 時間: 12-11-5 00:48
香港0既教育制度真0係有少少問題,
不過我唔會揀國際學校, 因為我覺得小朋友0係"主流"學校發展會較好
作者: UNKUB 時間: 12-11-6 10:41
本帖最後由 UNKUB 於 12-12-25 12:52 編輯
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