教育王國
標題: Interesting Observation of ESF and RC [打印本頁]
作者: Aerosol_Ma 時間: 10-9-17 20:44 標題: Interesting Observation of ESF and RC
Hi all,
I noticed that there are many messages regarding the admission of ESF primary schools. Nevertheless the messages for RC is much fewer. Does anyone know why? I believe many family do not care about the extra of about HK$20,000 school fee.
Does it mean that parents prefer ESF and not RC? If yes, why? Admission standard, academic standard or other reasons. Please share. Thank you.
作者: Radiomama 時間: 10-9-18 08:00
There are 5-6 ESF primary schools in various zone but just one RC in Ma On Shan.
However, parents would apply both (and also DC) anyway.
原帖由 Aerosol_Ma 於 10-9-17 20:44 發表 
Hi all,
I noticed that there are many messages regarding the admission of ESF primary schools. Nevertheless the messages for RC is much fewer. Does anyone know why? I believe many family do not care ...
作者: polite 時間: 10-9-19 14:41
其實，當自己的小朋友入到理想及滿意的小學後，大部份人都不會再發表意見或關注此討論區。所以你很少見到HKIS, CIS, DC, GSIS, 港島區的ESF 的家長的意見。只有未入到小學的家長才緊張此討論區。
No news is good news.
作者: Darth 時間: 10-9-19 21:20
原帖由 Aerosol_Ma 於 10-9-17 20:44 發表
Hi all,
I noticed that there are many messages regarding the admission of ESF primary schools. Nevertheless the messages for RC is much fewer. Does anyone know why? I believe many family do not care ...
I do think $20000 is a huge amount of money for most parents. Money is money. Why not care?
In any case, I do not think it is a money issue. RC has shorter history does it? I think most parents still prefer schools with longer history. However, as far as I know, RC is already as popular as other ESF schools.
Last, I also believe that BK is still such a "small" place. Most parents (international or local) do NOT come here at all. So it is not scientic to come to a judgement or conclusion by looking at messages in BK.
作者: lottieclee 時間: 10-9-20 08:14
原帖由 Darth 於 10-9-19 21:20 發表
I do think $20000 is a huge amount of money for most parents. Money is money. Why not care?
In any case, I do not think it is a money issue. RC has shorter history does it? I think most parents sti ...
RC and traditional ESF primary schools belong to 2 different ESF systems.
ESF primary schools that are in zones are of more traditional ESF schools. RC is a PIS, which does not receive as much government subsidies. It's more like a DDS school. In addition, RC and DC have to take at least 50% children of local parents, which is an agreement between ESF and HKSAR when they asked for the land to build PIS schools. Hence the shorter history.
作者: Darth 時間: 10-9-20 14:32
原帖由 lottieclee 於 10-9-20 08:14 發表
In addition, RC and DC have to take at least 50% children of local parents.
My kids are not in the PIS so I never really look into those "terms". For me as a parent, I do not care what a school is classified (ESF or PIS or DSS, whatever).I would rather look for the actual quality of the school. I myself do not like one of the ESF schools. In any case, 50% local is very few. At least, most ESF probably have more than 50% local people. And, in fact, most top students are in fact students with a local background. So? No need to be too obsessed with these "labels" or percentage.
[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-20 14:41 編輯 ]
作者: Y2KChild 時間: 10-9-20 16:23
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作者: iamfine 時間: 10-9-20 16:38
原帖由 Aerosol_Ma 於 10-9-17 20:44 發表
I noticed that there are many messages regarding the admission of ESF primary schools. Nevertheless the messages for RC is much fewer. Does anyone know why? I believe many family do not care about the extra of about HK$20,000 school fee.
Does it mean that parents prefer ESF and not RC? If yes, why? Admission standard, academic standard or other reasons. Please share. Thank you.
It's only natural that the mass finds what is designed for the mass appealing. Not following the mass is, after all, an acquired taste.
作者: iamfine 時間: 10-9-20 16:39
原帖由 Y2KChild 於 10-9-20 16:23 發表
Unlike DSS, PIS has no annual subsidy received from HK Government. Besides, the percentage of local students should be at least 70% but not 50%. ISF, RC and DC are classified as PIS by EB.
Anybody cares about EB? (I see quite a few raising their hands.)
作者: Y2KChild 時間: 10-9-20 17:56
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作者: iamfine 時間: 10-9-20 22:22
Glory to those glorified by EB with the holy "International School" title; shame to those given a different name. A rose is a rose is not a rose.
作者: Y2KChild 時間: 10-9-20 23:21 標題: 回復 1# iamfine 的帖子
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作者: Aerosol_Ma 時間: 10-9-20 23:32
Under the ESF big umbrella, should the standard of RC as good as the "norm" of other ESF primary school? Sometimes short history doesn't mean poor quality and in fact opposite can happen. Can some moms share their thoughts? Thanks.
作者: 新人王 時間: 10-9-21 09:31
RC and DC are not subsidised by the government but they are only $11K more expensive per year than ESF schools. Does the government only subsidise the ESF schools $11K per year per student? This is something I don't understand. It's possible that ESF schools have more funds for operations than the independent ones, which is quite important to seccure the education standards.
Another thing I heard is that the teacher turnover rate of RC and DC is quite high. Teachers are the most important asset of a school, if you don't have good offer, you can't hire and keep experience teachers.
New schools have fancy new resources but also disadvantages, they need sometime to build up and improve the school system. My impression from the recent experience with DC is that the staff are not very professional as yet. Don't know much about RC.
作者: myjasmine 時間: 10-9-21 11:12
I am a RC parent and my kid just started school for one month. We are very satisifed and happy with the school so far. Agree with Aerosol_Ma that "Sometimes short history doesn't mean poor quality and in fact opposite can happen.", in fact we found the whole school, from supporting staff to the principal are all eager to do the best. Also, the teachers are very hard working and with "heart" and we are really impressed.
作者: oooray 時間: 10-9-21 12:32
原帖由 myjasmine 於 10-9-21 11:12 發表
I am a RC parent and my kid just started school for one month. We are very satisifed and happy with the school so far. Agree with Aerosol_Ma that "Sometimes short history doesn't mean poor quality a ...
Some local parents prefer ESF to RC because of the high percentage of local Hong Kong Chinese.
作者: Y2KChild 時間: 10-9-21 13:02 標題: 回復 2# myjasmine 的帖子
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作者: Aerosol_Ma 時間: 10-9-21 18:23
The academic issue should be best commented by those RC parents. I am still considering sending the application form to RC but worrying about the teaching quality.
作者: Y2KChild 時間: 10-9-21 21:26
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作者: oooray 時間: 10-9-21 22:09
原帖由 Y2KChild 於 10-9-21 21:26 發表
Of course not. The academic issue should be best reflected from public exam results if any. Otherwise, it is better to be commented by an independent and impartial third party with good knowledge on ...
curious to know how could u compare amongst schools providing PYP. all esf primary are also running PYP. which is good and which is no good? where to find an independent third party? in BK??
作者: 新人王 時間: 10-9-22 09:41
The independent results will be the IB exam and the GCSE results. According to the ESF news, the students acheived the maximum of 45 points in IB are from KGV and South Island School. There are 94% of ESF students awarded the IB diploma and the average mark is 33.5 in 2010.
The thing is RC and DC are not included in these result yet cos they havn't build up their college yet. This morning I saw an ad on am730 that RC is recruiting students for year11. So we need at least 2 or 3 years to see their performance in IB and GCSE.
At the moment there is no public test from which we can see the performance of the primary schools. We have to rely on comments from existing parents.
作者: 新人王 時間: 10-9-22 09:44
Correction:
According to the ESF news, in 2010, the students achieved the maximum of 45 points in IB are from KGV and South Island School.
作者: WYmom 時間: 10-9-22 10:07 標題: 回覆 2# 新人王 的文章
For RC, they already have 2 batches of IB graduates. You can check info. from their website.
http://www.renaissance.edu.hk/content/further-education
The 2 PIS RC and DC are established to meet the overwhelming demand from local communities while govt freeze the subsidies to ESF a few years ago. They have no zone and categories restriction for all applicants. These 2 schools enjoy the best campus and facilities among ESF schools and their fees are only a little bit higher than ESF schools (for secondary schools, fees are almost the same as ESF schools).
Usually people apply both ESF and RC/DC together to maximize the chance of acceptance.
作者: Radiomama 時間: 10-9-22 10:15
RC released the IB Examination Result in 2010 too (second IB Diploma cohort)!
Highest point: 41
Achieving the IB diploma: 97.6%
Average points score: 32.6
作者: Yau_Cheung 時間: 10-9-22 10:26
請問2010年 ESF 共有幾多位 IB 考生？Thanks.
原帖由 新人王 於 10-9-22 09:41 發表
The independent results will be the IB exam and the GCSE results. According to the ESF news, the students acheived the maximum of 45 points in IB are from KGV and South Island School. There are 94% of ...
作者: Yau_Cheung 時間: 10-9-22 10:28
請問2010年 RC 共有幾多位 IB 考生？Thanks.
原帖由 Radiomama 於 10-9-22 10:15 發表
RC released the IB Examination Result in 2010 too (second IB Diploma cohort)!
Highest point: 41
Achieving the IB diploma: 97.6%
Average points score: 32.6
作者: oooray 時間: 10-9-22 10:47
原帖由 Yau_Cheung 於 10-9-22 10:28 發表
請問2010年 RC 共有幾多位 IB 考生？Thanks.
pls. take a look at this:
http://www.renaissance.edu.hk/content/black-kite-extra
[ 本帖最後由 oooray 於 10-9-22 10:48 編輯 ]
作者: Radiomama 時間: 10-9-22 10:48
RC: 41 students entered for the IB diploma and 40 achive it.
ESF: 726 students and 683 achive it.
原帖由 Yau_Cheung 於 10-9-22 10:28 發表
請問2010年 RC 共有幾多位 IB 考生？Thanks.
[ 本帖最後由 Radiomama 於 10-9-22 12:51 編輯 ]
作者: Yau_Cheung 時間: 10-9-22 13:10
Thank you. 
原帖由 Radiomama 於 10-9-22 10:48 發表
RC: 41 students entered for the IB diploma and 40 achive it.
ESF: 726 students and 683 achive it.
作者: Yau_Cheung 時間: 10-9-22 13:13
請問有冇家長有 GSIS, CIS & HKIS 既 IBD result (year 2010)? Thank you.
作者: Darth 時間: 10-9-22 13:32
So far, from the sources shared here, the averages of IBD scores of ESF, RC and CDNIS are in the range of 32 - 34. Note that they all have students with scores over 40. So we can almost be sure that there are quite some people that have results under 30. Does anyone think that this is a bit worrying too?
[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-22 13:57 編輯 ]
作者: iamfine 時間: 10-9-22 13:59
There are good and not so good students in every school.
作者: Darth 時間: 10-9-22 14:44
原帖由 iamfine 於 10-9-22 13:59 發表
There are good and not so good students in every school.
Most of the time, examination results are bell distribution. And normally, the average of the bell graph is also the norm. Try visualising a bell graph, with score 32 - 34 in the middle. What does it tell you?
We are talking about a lot of people with scores under 30, to bring the "average" down to 32-34, if there are people with scores over 40.
[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-22 14:46 編輯 ]
作者: WYmom 時間: 10-9-22 15:08
原帖由 Darth 於 10-9-22 14:44 發表
Most of the time, examination results are bell distribution. And normally, the average of the bell graph is also the norm. Try visualising a bell graph, with score 32 - 34 in the middle. What does ...
You can know the distribution of IB results from their website, for all the 6 ESF schools (5 ESF schools and RC as well) there are 79.2% of students getting 30+, so around 20% are below 30.
It is not surprising as you know that ESF, unlike GSIS, HKIS or CIS, that it is not taking students based on academic results but only based on English proficiency. I think parents know the standards of their kids and should help them choose the right path after GCSE based on predictions. They can take other diplomas apart from IBD if they don't expect very good results.
For RC and DC students, I don't know if there are any indication of standards for students by Y11 to predict their results in IBD.
作者: thankful 時間: 10-9-22 15:12
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作者: Darth 時間: 10-9-22 16:03
原帖由 WYmom 於 10-9-22 15:08 發表
I think parents know the standards of their kids and should help them choose the right path after GCSE based on predictions. They can take other diplomas apart from IBD if they don't expect very good results.
In the past, I never paid too much attention to those statistics.
Anyway, your comments were fair enough.
So the parents, students, and schools know well the standard of students. And the students have chosen the right courses and path accordingly.
"Thankful" provided the information that even at LPC, there are 9% students that have scores below 30.
I am not here to bash any school or student. I think as parents, we are all trying to help our children to achieve. So, is something missing here if the percentage of students with score below 30 is so significant?
I know quite a few ESF IBD students personally. They seem to be quite "average" to me, not particularly hard working or bright. But they have scores much higher than 30.
I might sound very mean, but what have those "<30" students been doing? Getting a score of 40+ is of course hard. You need to be diligent and smart. But am I asking too much for a score of 30+?
If my child gets a score of 30, I would be very upset. But it seems that it is not uncommon then and thus can possibly be a score that my children get. Really worrying.
[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-22 16:05 編輯 ]
作者: WYmom 時間: 10-9-22 16:44
原帖由 Darth 於 10-9-22 16:03 發表
In the past, I never paid too much attention to those statistics.
Anyway, your comments were fair enough.
So the parents, students, and schools know well the standard of students. And the student ...
Yes, that's something parents should ask the school. Maybe some students are good at GCSE, but not IBD as IBD requires students to take both Art and Science subjects. In the past, ESF allow students to take GCSE AL, but now no such choice. All ESF schools only start IBD in 2009-2010. So they are trying to improve the successful rate further.
Personally, I think if parents and students have more confidence in taking GCSE AL, we may need to send the kids to UK boarding schools after Y11. Just my thoughts.
[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 10-9-22 16:45 編輯 ]
作者: Radiomama 時間: 10-9-22 17:00
LPC (an elite IB school in HK)
HK students average: 40.81
Number of HK students: 59
Highest Score: 25 out of 128 students get in between 41-45 points
CIS
Highest Score: 28% of students get in between 40-45 points
Yew Chung
Average: 34
Highest Score: 13% of students get in between 40-45 points
Some parents would also pay attention to the ratio of billingual diploma. I got all this information from their school websites.
原帖由 Yau_Cheung 於 10-9-22 13:13 發表
請問有冇家長有 GSIS, CIS & HKIS 既 IBD result (year 2010)? Thank you.
作者: Darth 時間: 10-9-22 17:51
原帖由 Radiomama 於 10-9-22 17:00 發表
Yew Chung
Average: 34
Highest Score: 13% of students get in between 40-45 points
Average of 34 is higher than ESF.
I would not judge a school by merely looking at the statistics, but there must be something in their school that we can learn...
作者: WYmom 時間: 10-9-22 18:06
原帖由 Darth 於 10-9-22 17:51 發表
Average of 34 is higher than ESF.
I would not judge a school by merely looking at the statistics, but there must be something in their school that we can learn...
I won't just look at results of IBD, as usually there are many new students moving in and out to IS from local schools at Y12. In the past, usually the more capable ones from local schools will choose to enter IS for taking IBD program as this is not available in local schools. The very top ones will be accepted by LPC , GSIS, HKIS or CIS. The second tier ones will choose Yew Chung or other IS.
In ESF, majority of the IBD students come from their own schools.
Now DBS and SPCC start to offer IBD for some of their more capable students as well while the rest will take NSS.
[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 10-9-22 18:08 編輯 ]
作者: Mighty 時間: 10-9-22 19:00
I am not familiar with LPC and CIS but I know they are very good schools. HOWEVER, as someone has mentioned that one has to be good at both arts and science subjects in order to get good resulsts at IB, may be pupils wl have an advantage if they start PYP and MYP when they are young. So my wishful thinking is if your child starts from PYP and MYP, then he might get good results at IB. Of course, hardworking is a must as well.
作者: WYmom 時間: 10-9-22 19:49
原帖由 Mighty 於 10-9-22 19:00 發表
I am not familiar with LPC and CIS but I know they are very good schools. HOWEVER, as someone has mentioned that one has to be good at both arts and science subjects in order to get good resulsts at ...
That's quite an interesting question, why LPC's students got so high score in IBD while a lot of them come from top traditional local schools who have not gone through PYP/MYP training?
And, many IS worldwide do not use PYP/MYP in primary and secondary and only offer IBD in the last 2 years. So it seems to me that top students are always top no matter under what programs they are trained, and not really sure if students trained under PYP/MYP all through will do better in IBD.
作者: Darth 時間: 10-9-22 23:08
原帖由 WYmom 於 10-9-22 18:06 發表
I won't just look at results of IBD, as usually there are many new students moving in and out to IS from local schools at Y12. In the past, usually the more capable ones from local schools will cho ...
Of course we would look at the results of IBD. However, I would say we should not judge a school only by looking at the results.
But I think we should look at the statistics with an open mind. The results are that some other schools are better than ESF. I am afraid this is a fact. I do not think we should dismiss this fact because we do not like it. Rather, why don't we try to see whether we can learn from them.
As far as I know Yew Chung (no offence) has never been a top school and they do not exactly choose their students. Yet they are doing better than ESF. There must be something that they are doing that we are not.
[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-22 23:15 編輯 ]
作者: Darth 時間: 10-9-22 23:17
原帖由 Mighty 於 10-9-22 19:00 發表
I am not familiar with LPC and CIS but I know they are very good schools. HOWEVER, as someone has mentioned that one has to be good at both arts and science subjects in order to get good resulsts at ...
LPC select top students. They are already some of the best students in their own mother schools. My guess would be that, if they had been with the MYP/PYP, they might be even better.
作者: thankful 時間: 10-9-22 23:59
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作者: thankful 時間: 10-9-23 00:08
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作者: WYmom 時間: 10-9-23 08:48
原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-23 00:08 發表
Taking LPC's latest result as an example, out of the total of 128 students, 59 of them were said to be "HK Students". Exactly how many of them actually came from local schools?
Thankful,
I have visited LPC before and talked to some students - mainly HK top students from local schools (You know LPC only have 2 years of IBD) and so understand the very selective admission process and the mix of students etc. LPC basically select the best students locally and from Asia and most students got in by scholarship. I don't have the nos, I believe you can check from the school if you are interested.
Darth,
I have also visited Yew Chung before. I think they attract more better students now with the new campus. Besides, they have run IBD for many years, while all ESF schools starts IBD only for 1 or a few years (varies for different schools). There is of course much room for ESF to improve. What I mean is that I will look at both GCSE and IBD, students nos, sources etc, not just IBD. And as IBD is new to us, we have to understand IBD more to help our kids select the right subjects and levels with the right strategies to get better results. Even ESF admitted that they have not done the IB results predictions for students very well, so there were some mismatches.
I think all these won't affect students still in primary schools now, but just affect our kids who will be taking IBD in the next few years.
[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 10-9-23 08:52 編輯 ]
作者: mattsmum 時間: 10-9-23 17:54 標題: 回覆 1# WYmom 的文章
FIS average is 36 with 25 or so students.
Hk students from local schools could have advantage if they choose subject carefully, we all know many good students in hk are good at maths, physics, chemistry biology ( in my days that is the secrete tool for getting into oversea universities) - they need absolute answer and have no pure discussion. But I would think they may not be good in language but still have good chance.
Ib mark boundary I found from Internet:
To get 7 marks, you have to achieve the following-
Math hl >77-81
math sl > 86~83
Phy hl sl >69~71
chem hl sl 79~81
bio sl hl 79~80
Econ sl hl 72~75
history >72
geo > 70
Chinese A2 >82 for h
English A1 > 80 for hl
English A2>82 for hl, > 81 sl
If I were ib student with local background but in IS, I would choose
Group 1:
Group 2:
Group 3: econ, aim at 7 marks
Group 4: physics,aim at 7 marks
Group 5: math, aim at 7 marks
Group 6: choose from group 4, said chem, aim at 7 marks
I might be just so so for EE and TOK, but I already secure 28 marks without group 1 which is world literature or group 2, even I got 5 in these 2 groups, I would still got 10+28=38.
But this only works with that breed of local students who are at at science subjects.
if one is very average, I would need to find another strategy and try to get higher marks from arts/humanity subjects, or try hard to average out- 5x6=30 if I got another 3=33.
so I think one needs to know what he/she wants to study in university, choose subjects he/she is best at and work really hard if IB is chosen.
[ 本帖最後由 mattsmum 於 10-9-23 18:15 編輯 ]
作者: Radiomama 時間: 10-9-24 10:04 標題: 回覆 1# mattsmum 的文章
@mattsmum,
I like your analyse! I would bear it in mind.
作者: mattsmum 時間: 10-9-24 22:18 標題: 回覆 1# Radiomama 的文章
this is my speculation why some local students do well in IB. I guess hk students are really good at exam.
作者: Darth 時間: 10-9-26 16:55
原帖由 mattsmum 於 10-9-23 17:54 發表
Ib mark boundary I found from Internet:
To get 7 marks, you have to achieve the following-
Math hl >77-81
math sl > 86~83
Phy hl sl >69~71
chem hl sl 79~81
bio sl hl 79~80
Econ sl hl 72~75
history >72
geo > 70
Chinese A2 >82 for h
English A1 > 80 for hl
English A2>82 for hl, > 81 sl
Thank you so much for this piece of information.
This makes me wonder even more: what have those "below 30" students been doing all the time?
作者: thankful 時間: 10-9-26 17:29
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作者: Darth 時間: 10-9-26 17:42
原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-26 17:29 發表
My friend,
Not every kid is good at studying. Some are good at sports and music, some are talented in design........ You get some who are above average and there must be others who are below avera ...
thankful,
I do agree everyone has their strong area. But, I think parents should be told what kind of curriculum IB is.
Parents would not know, but the schools do.
They are supposed to be the experts.
And then, when parents know the expectation of IB, they can help decide whether they should really let their children choose IB.
I know some parents are aggressive, and in this case, they should have been warned. If a person is not suitable for IB, may be he should move to another curriculum.
Getting a really low score is not only practically not helping a student going to a decent university, it is also not good for self exteem.
I myself certainly would not let that happen to my child. If I knew that my child would not be possible to handle the IB burriculum, I would immediately pull him out of the IB school.
作者: thankful 時間: 10-9-26 17:57
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作者: Darth 時間: 10-9-27 15:01
原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-26 17:57 發表
Darth,
Yes, schools are supposed to be the expert. But sometimes, when they are new to IB, perhaps they are not as experienced as they should be. I know it's not an excuse, but it happens.
Likewis ...
thankful,
Actually, I just feel sorry for those students that got really low scores.
I know that some of them probably deserve that because they were lazy. But I know that (I know a few IB students with ESF) some simply got the wrong level of subjects. When I looked at the CDNIS results, I feel sorry for those that were not given a chance to choose a combination of, say, English B + Chinese A...
I did not know much about IB too in the past. The more I read (here in BK or elsewhere in other forum), the more confused I get. But fortunately, there are so many people that are willing to share information and view. Now I know much more.
I just feel quite stressed out.
How about your kid's school? Is is not confirmed that there will only be IBD in the future?
作者: WYmom 時間: 10-9-27 15:47
原帖由 Darth 於 10-9-27 15:01 發表
thankful,
Actually, I just feel sorry for those students that got really low scores.
I know that some of them probably deserve that because they were lazy. But I know that (I know a few IB students ...
Hi, Darth,
I think in ESF, students must choose English A1, right? Not sure whether it is SL or HL. For choosing the levels of different IB subjects, it is really hard for parents and the school should be able to help the students choose correctly matching their target of universities. So why are there some students as you said choosing the wrong level of IB subjects? Do you mean that the school did not advise them correctly?
I think for those who only meet the min. requirements of studying IBD should consider taking alternative diplomas instead of IBD.
[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 10-9-27 18:08 編輯 ]
作者: thankful 時間: 10-9-28 00:36
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