教育王國

標題: Which IS is the best? [打印本頁]
作者: frenchfries    時間: 10-8-27 15:32     標題: Which IS is the best?

In terms of Academical result. eg, admission rate to the Ivy League in US or the top 10 universities in UK.
作者: Y2KChild    時間: 10-8-27 16:37

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作者: frenchfries    時間: 10-8-28 12:13

Anybody knows?

原帖由 Y2KChild 於 10-8-27 16:37 發表
To get admission to the top 10 univerisites in the UK is not difficult. If your question changes to the Oxbridge in the UK and the Ivy League or equivalent in the US, the results, if available, will b ...
作者: Darth    時間: 10-8-29 11:53

原帖由 frenchfries 於 10-8-27 15:32 發表
In terms of Academical result. eg, admission rate to the Ivy League in US or the top 10 universities in UK.


唔係間間學校會 RELEASE D RESULT 出黎.
我自己孩子讀 ESF, 我印象中都睇過其他兩三間學校的 RESULT. 感覺係, 以 ESF 的學費 (即 = 資源) 而言, (其他都要 DEBENTURE,  即 "成本" 高了) 成績唔錯.

要明白, 間間學校學生背景唔同, ESF 一向都係主打英國大學, 而家亦多了好多本地學生, 因此, 多數學生留 HK 或去英國.

HKIS, CIS 學生來自較富裕家庭, 因此較少學生會留 HK.

另, 要留意美國加拿大都唔係入就入 MED, LAW, ARCHI, (有 D 連 ENGINEERING 都係) 等專科, 而係要讀一個 PRE-XXX PROGRAM, 讀得好先有得入科. 因此好多學生, 入美加大學都可能只係選讀一個看似 "冇料到" 的學科, 但其實可能會係一心入 MED 或 LAW SCHOOL 的.

所以睇數據都要識睇.

單單睇學校 SUPPORT, 和名氣, 我只有兩個選擇 : 有錢就入 HKIS 啦, 佢地有好多 SUPPORT, 尤其如果係要去美國, 佢地好熟要點幫學生. 如果負擔唔到, 就不如入最平的 ESF, 不過要留意, ESF 好少入美國大學的 SUPPORT, 要 TARGET 美國大學, 家長要自己做多 D  RESEARCH.

但, 讀書真係要睇個人努力. 我都識好多好 HEA 的學生, 求其入間大學 (美國除了有 IVY LEAGUE, 都有好多雞校), 去讀幾年, 都係大學生, 厄到一部份鄉親.

(純個人意見)

[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-8-29 11:58 編輯 ]
作者: Y2KChild    時間: 10-8-29 13:41

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-8-30 02:26

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作者: Y2KChild    時間: 10-8-30 09:07

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-8-30 10:22

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-8-30 12:04

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作者: Y2KChild    時間: 10-8-30 12:11

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-8-30 12:24

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-8-30 12:28

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作者: Darth    時間: 10-8-30 13:00

"Equivalent of Ivy League"?

There is no equivalent of course. Ivy League is not only a group of schools. It is an icon. I am not here to argue which school has the best law school or which school has the best team of chemisty teachers. Ivy League is Ivy League.

Of course, there are so many other schools that are very good. For instance, I would be as happy if my kids can get into Cal Tech, etc. But we just cannot say that those schools are equivalent of ivy league schools.
作者: Darth    時間: 10-8-30 13:11

原帖由 thankful 於 10-8-30 12:04 發表
Apart from the class size, I think we should also bear in mind:-
(1) Other than Ivy League, there are other equally famous colleges in US.
(2) One year's outstanding result might not be repeated the next year or ever.
(3) The subject these students take make a difference as I am sure some subjects are infinitely more difficult to get in than the others.
(4) These data may make you feel good, but ultimately it means nothing if your kid is not one of them.


Well said.
作者: reneeleung    時間: 10-8-30 14:01

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作者: Y2KChild    時間: 10-8-30 14:34

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作者: Yau_Cheung    時間: 10-8-31 17:50

另外，聽講部份 IB 成績非常好既 IS 學生，會入 HKU 醫學院 or 精算系。
作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-11 01:02

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-11 01:13

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-11 01:23

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-11 01:27

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-11 01:36

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-12 02:10

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-12 02:32

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作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-12 16:54

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-12 02:10 發表
CDNIS's result:-

http://www.cdnis.edu.hk/en/news/documents/GradProfile2010.pdf


I have also found another document on the CDNIS website.

http://www.cdnis.edu.hk/en/documents/IBresult(full)_2010.pdf

Whilst the Mandarin results are very high (many students got 7), the English results are really unacceptable. Most people get a 5 in English A1, and only a 4 in English A2.

The averages for both levels are in the range of 4.X for English which is, in my opinion, totally unacceptable for an international school.
作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-12 20:36

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作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-12 21:36

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-12 20:36 發表
Yes, CDNIS's English A1 HL and SL scores were both below World Average.  But I wonder if it had something to do with the fact that a lot of its students chose to do English A1 HL instead of SL.  Looki ...


thankful,
I think I was probably like you, trying to find some kind of excuse of why their English scores were so low.
But for individual student, it he gets a 4, it is a four. It is already too late. It was the responsibility of the school to advice what level of the subject the student should take. And if HL is too challenging, take SL.
In any case, for international students, is HL really that hard?
作者: arielle.w    時間: 10-9-12 22:04

I guess there is no excuse for CDNIS students to get such 'bad' scores in English. One of the obvious reasons is that many of them speak cantonese amongst themselves.

To answer your question, yes it really is pretty hard for a student from international school student to do well in English A1 as the course content is more about literature than the language. Some students just aren't a 'literature person'. It's the same in SAT cases, achieving good Maths and Writing scores but not CR.

原帖由 Darth 於 10-9-12 21:36 發表


thankful,
I think I was probably like you, trying to find some kind of excuse of why their English scores were so low.
But for individual student, it he gets a 4, it is a four. It is already too lat ...
作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-12 22:50

原帖由 arielle.w 於 10-9-12 22:04 發表
To answer your question, yes it really is pretty hard for a student from international school student to do well in English A1 as the course content is more about literature than the language. Some students just aren't a 'literature person'. It's the same in SAT cases, achieving good Maths and Writing scores but not CR.


I do not agree.

I know well the cirriculum of Langauge A. Yes, Language A is not easy. But I do not think that it is hard to get a 5. I am not talking about 6 or 7. A mere 5, and a student cannot even get that? Well, then, may be this student should not consider IBD at all.

In IBD, 5 is a language A is almost the minimum (at least, that's what I expect from my children).  Honestly, even in lower grades, international school students are already studying lots of literature. Language A in IBD is merely an extension of the lower grades English.

OK, somehow, there are students in such a prestige international school that cannot cope with language A1 (well, isn't that unbelievable why the school would let that happen?). Then such student should be adviced to take one level lower in order to secure a better score. If HL is too hard for Jane Doe, ask her to take SL. If English A is too hard for Jane Doe, she needs to take English B. And if the school does not have English B as an alternative, does it mean that this student should not be with this school in the first place. I think the arrangement (asking student with poor English to go for English A1) is in fact a poor decision. Yet if the school (and students) insist on taking English A1, the school (and students) need to make arrangements to push the English standard up. It may mean extra tutuition outside classes.

Now that you mention SAT, it is totally a piece of cake for IBD students. If one really work hard, it is not hard to KO SAT.

[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-12 22:53 編輯 ]
作者: arielle.w    時間: 10-9-12 23:08

I think you do have a point in CDNIS' policy of placing students into different classes. Class of 2010 is just the first cohort of IBDP at CDNIS so there of course is still room for improvement. Perhaps the school/students underestimated the difficulty of English A1 HL and hence that is the result. I believe they will have better results and arrangement in the coming years.

It probably isn't hard to get a 5 in English A1 SL but English A1 HL is like a whole different world. I think students should choose the suitable of courses for themselves and aim for a 5 or more but not enrolling into a wrong course and still aim for a 5. It is just unrealistic. You probably noticed that many students in CIS took English A1 SL over HL. The fact is that English A1 HL is for students who are really good at English, both language and literature wise.

I still remember a little discussion between me and my friends right after the IB English exam 2010. They took English A1 SL at CIS and no one was confident in getting a good result at that time since everyone interpreted the poem differently and no one was sure about the correct answer. I always believe language is like a talent. If you're not a language person, you just can't force it to do English A1 HL.

And about the problem of students not being able to cope with English A1. I am not a CDNIS hater but some of the ppl there really can't speak good English. It seems kinda unreasonable but we gotta understand quite a number of CDNIS students are transfer students from local schools. It does take time for them to pick up the language and stuff. The school is not to blame I guess.

原帖由 Darth 於 10-9-12 22:50 發表


I do not agree.

I know well the cirriculum of Langauge A. Yes, Language A is not easy. But I do not think that it is hard to get a 5. I am not talking about 6 or 7. A mere 5, and a student cannot e ...

[ 本帖最後由 arielle.w 於 10-9-12 23:11 編輯 ]
作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-12 23:24

原帖由 arielle.w 於 10-9-12 23:08 發表
It seems kinda unreasonable but we gotta understand quite a number of CDNIS students are transfer students from local students. It does take time for them to pick up the language and stuff. The school is not to blame I guess.


I believe that many international schools accept lots of students from local school for high school levels. Then this is the responsiblity of the school to offer alternative levels of English to students. IBD is not the time to challenge oneself. It is a time to get the right level of courses. If those students from local schools are not ready for A1 HL, offer them A2 or even B (and at the same time let them have an option to take Chinese A). If the school is unwilling to provide language classes in other levels, those students not having good English level will need to go to another school.

From looking at the overall results, it appears to me that the score of 5 -6 are the norm with most other subjects. So it is really a pity that the norm of English is at the range of 4 - 5.

I am not picking on CDNIS particularly. If any other schools are as inflexible, they should also be asked to make changes to meet the needs of different students.

[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-12 23:29 編輯 ]
作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-13 00:31

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-13 00:33

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-13 01:18

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作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-13 01:18

I am wondering if you know the answer to this one.  Let say I get 4 in English A1 HL.  If I do SL instead, what am I likely to get?  A 5, 6 or 7?  I just want to gauge the difference in standard between the 2 levels.

==> I am still finding my way to try to plot the difference too. But for sure you if you are a 4 in A1 HL, you are probably at least a 5 in SL. Now one more point is one more point. And I think a 4 in your results is not going to look good for admissions purpose.

By the way, looking at the statistics of CIS, English A1 HL do look pretty hard to me.  Only 13 students got 5 or above in English A1 HL which in your view is the minimum acceptable.  But it's out of 102 students taking English as a subject.  In this respect, it looks rather difficult.  I wonder if anybody has statistics for other IS so that we can make comparisons.

==> Unfortunately, not all schools are willing to provide a breakdown. But I think sometimes talking to people might be as meaningful.
I personally know a few IBD students, 2 from class of 2009 and 2 from class of 2010. Three with ESF and one with RCHK. They all got at least 5 in English HL. So that was why I have always thought that a 5 should be achievable. Let's do some simple arithmatic. With 6 subjects, we are talking about a mere 30 points if you get a 5 in everything. So how can we be willing to accept 4? If, it is really the case that my kid is "4 person" with English HL, I need to ask him to move back to SL to try to get at least a 5.
A 4 in English HL would not help with admission anyway. Moving back to SL (with a hope to get at least a 5), and aiming for schools/subjects that do not require English HL would make much more sense.

The most important thing with IBD is that, do lots of research of what subjects you need to get into universities. You need Math HL for engineering and Chemistry for forensic science. You do not need Math SL for history major and you do not need English A1 HL for Math major. Try to find out what you need, take the right level of classes. No more no less.
作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-13 02:18

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作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-13 02:25

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-13 02:18 發表
Do the universities spell out specifically what subjects, levels and points you need for a particular course?


I got a lot of information by checking the schools' websites. You need to time digging for information. More details might be obtained if you write to each school.
作者: iamfine    時間: 10-9-13 09:36

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-13 02:18 發表
Do the universities spell out specifically what subjects, levels and points you need for a particular course?


Not sure about universities in the States but many in the UK do. When the universities are making "firm" (as opposed to so called "insurance") offers, they may require the offerees to achieve, say, a total of 36 (including bonus points) with 6, 6, 6 in the three HLs. There may be some further specific requirements when it comes to certain curricula. Law at Oxbridge and Durham may require at least a 6 in English A1 (HL). A student will certainly need at least a 6 in Chemistry (HL) to get into one of the top medi schools ...
作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-13 11:51

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作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-13 12:24

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-13 11:51 發表
So before the kids choose their IB subjects and levels, they better make up their mind as to what they want to do in university and also zoom in on the particular universities they have in mind so that they will have a rough idea as to what they are expected to achieve in IB ultimately.  It's not exactly an easy decision for a 16 yeards old kid, is it?


It is hard indeed. So that's when the university placement team of the school come into the picture. And, parents need to be hands-on too. Do not leave it to the school. Work hard and fight for the subject your need. If the school does not offer what is appropriate (eg. English A2 instead of English A1 HL), check out with other schools, even if it means that you need to settle with a school with less fame. Getting a 4 in English A1 HL with Prestige High School is not getting you to any good university. I would rather get a 5 in English A2 with Ordinary High School.

[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-13 12:30 編輯 ]
作者: WYmom    時間: 10-9-13 20:57

原帖由 Darth 於 10-9-13 12:24 發表


It is hard indeed. So that's when the university placement team of the school come into the picture. And, parents need to be hands-on too. Do not leave it to the school. Work hard and fight for the  ...


Hi, Darth,

Usually students have to choose their IB subjects by beginning of Y11, so do you mean that the kids have to identify their career and choose the required IB subjects by end Y10?  Seems really too early a decision for them.  

Does your child know what he/she like at Y10?  My child at Y10 now still has no idea what she likes.

[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 10-9-13 21:09 編輯 ]
作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-14 00:21

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-14 00:45

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作者: ANChan59    時間: 10-9-17 12:47     標題: 回覆 43# thankful 的文章

In general, your tactic work but we also need to consider the min. requirement of specific subjects, like HKU Medicine, you must have Chemistry HL.......

Just an example, my son opens for Medicine, Quantitative Finance and Global Business. He got good grades (88%+) in Physics, Chemistry and Maths in Grade 9. He will take Chemistry, Maths and Economics at HL, Physics, Chinese and English as SL, even his Physics will be better than Economics (new subject for him).
作者: WYmom    時間: 10-9-17 15:29

原帖由 ANChan59 於 10-9-17 12:47 發表
In general, your tactic work but we also need to consider the min. requirement of specific subjects, like HKU Medicine, you must have Chemistry HL.......

Just an example, my son opens for Medicine, Q ...


Hi, ANChan59,

Agree with you, my daughter is best at English, Physics and Maths, business and economics are new to her.  She is not interested in medicine, just interested in playing.  Which program (say, in HKU) will be suitable for her?  Can you give me some advice?  Thanks.
作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-17 15:47

原帖由 WYmom 於 10-9-17 15:29 發表
Hi, ANChan59,

Agree with you, my daughter is best at English, Physics and Maths, business and economics are new to her.  She is not interested in medicine, just interested in playing.  Which progra ...


WYmom,

To answer your previous question, yes, it would be best if a student can decide early what he/she wants to do.

There 2 possible way of handling the situation, I think.

First way. Ask a child what he wants to do, then find out what subjects are needed and see whether he believe he can achieve that. I have a friend whose child wants to be an engineer. He was told that he has to have Math HL. He has not exactly been really good at Math all these time, but after knowing that he needs Math HL, he started working hard and have had really good grade in Y10.

Second way. See what a child is good at and see what he can do. For your daughter, since she has good Math and Physics, she probably more of the "science person". She can consider Engineering, Architecture, any lab Science (Forensic Science, Agriculture Science, or even pure Physics etc). Or even better, go to the website of the universities that you like and see what they can offer.
Not all universities offer the stream that you would want. For example,  Not all schools have  forensic science as an undergraduate program. Then you have to first major in Chemistry and further study a post graduate degree in forensic. Not all universities have Architecture.  Some have Urban Planning and Architecture is a Master program. Some, on the other hand, offer Architecture as a undergraduate program.
作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-17 19:07

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作者: ANChan59    時間: 10-9-17 22:26

原帖由 WYmom 於 10-9-17 15:29 發表
Hi, ANChan59,

Agree with you, my daughter is best at English, Physics and Maths, business and economics are new to her.  She is not interested in medicine, just interested in playing.  Which program (say, in HKU) will be suitable for her?  Can you give me some advice?  Thanks.


Hi WYmom

It's difficult to recommend any specific program to your daughter as very limited info provided by you.

Just some suggestions you can go through with your daughter together:
I hope it helps......
作者: WYmom    時間: 10-9-18 08:45     標題: 回覆 1# ANChan59 的文章

ANChan59 and Darth,

Thanks a lot for your kind advice.  It's very helpful.

Ha, when I offer many choices for my daughter at a glance, she picks recreational studies, so that she can play all the time.  Agree with you that play is not negative, she is always a very sportive and artistic girl.

Good luck to your kids as well.

[ 本帖最後由 WYmom 於 10-9-18 08:46 編輯 ]
作者: ANChan59    時間: 10-9-18 09:36

原帖由 WYmom 於 10-9-18 08:45 發表
ANChan59 and Darth,

Thanks a lot for your kind advice.  It's very helpful.

Ha, when I offer many choices for my daughter at a glance, she picks recreational studies, so that she can play all the tim ...


Have you heard about play therapist in HA? Play can be serious to help some kids in medical field.
作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-22 17:10

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作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-22 17:43

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-22 17:10 發表
Looking at the breakdown of the IB results, it appears that it is so much easier to get 6 or 7 in Japanese A1 HL than Chinese A1 HL.  For example, in May 2009, 42% of the students got 7 and 44% got 6  ...



I would suspect thost that take Japanese A1 HL (Korean A1 HL) are all Japanese (Korean) students.
Let me just guess. Would it be that Japanese and Korean people are mostly good at their own languages, while Hong Kong Chinese are mostly NOT good at our own language? Heard in the past that the results of the Chinese exams in HKCEE and HKAL were not exactly impressive...
Sad.
作者: ANChan59    時間: 10-9-22 18:23

In IB, Chinese more Chi Lit type, it looks not very common in HK and Greater China. It's a shock to me the syllabus of IB Chinese is more Chinese than the local curriculum in HK.

As I know, IB ranking related to absolute score and not draw a curve. Anyone double confirm this?
作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-22 23:20

原帖由 ANChan59 於 10-9-22 18:23 發表
In IB, Chinese more Chi Lit type, it looks not very common in HK and Greater China. It's a shock to me the syllabus of IB Chinese is more Chinese than the local curriculum in HK.

As I know, IB rankin ...


Language A are all like that and include the study of literature. So it is NOT only Chinese that is harder.

Language B would be the language itself.

Yes, IB scores are scores of the student himself and his scores would not be adjusted by comparing to other students.

[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-22 23:24 編輯 ]
作者: ANChan59    時間: 10-9-22 23:53

原帖由 Darth 於 10-9-22 23:20 發表
Language A are all like that and include the study of literature. So it is NOT only Chinese that is harder.


I clarify the point Chinese in HK just language, but IB is more Chi Lit, it's not easy and common for HK students. So the score is much lower.

As you said other countries may get used to their literatures and score much much better in IB Languages.
作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-23 00:12

原帖由 ANChan59 於 10-9-22 23:53 發表
I clarify the point Chinese in HK just language, but IB is more Chi Lit, it's not easy and common for HK students. So the score is much lower.

As you said other countries may get used to their lite ...



I was merely trying to explain to thankful that, all Language A include literature appreciation. They are not particularly making Chinese A difficult. Check out the English A curriculum. Lots of literature appreciation too. So I believe Japanese A, Korean A, Italian A, etc all includes literature appreciation/critics.

And this does not only happen to IB curriculum. In Canada and the US, when we are talking about "English" in high school, there are also a lot of literature. So the inclusion of literature in the "langauge" curriculum is not uncommon.

Even in local Chinese curriculum, have we also studied literature as part of the 課文 as well? Go and check out local middle school Chinese text books. You will be able to spot the study of 出師表, 滿江紅, etc. These are also literature appreciation.

On the other hand Language B is much more "shallow". And that's why many international school students would only take Chinese B. (I must stress that Chinese B can still be quite challenging for many international school students.)

[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-23 00:20 編輯 ]
作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-23 00:24

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作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-23 00:27

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作者: Darth    時間: 10-9-23 00:38

原帖由 thankful 於 10-9-23 00:27 發表
Or could it be the Japanese and Korean "literature" are a lot easier?  Anyway, it doesn't really matter.  It's just in a way "unfair" to those taking Chinese.


Interesting point; and may be you are right.
China has a few thousand years of history. We have lots of literacy works and many of those works have a significant historical background to consider as well.
Fair or unfair? I think IS students should avoid Chinese A. Honestly, even Chinese B is not exactly "easy".

[ 本帖最後由 Darth 於 10-9-23 00:43 編輯 ]
作者: thankful    時間: 10-9-23 01:39

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作者: mattsmum    時間: 10-9-24 21:55     標題: 回覆 1# thankful 的文章

It's grade are belt curved, I will not want to rely on chinese as group 1 because I will be competing with those from china.

sample of IB chinese in china, I don't think hk students can normally handle it:

高二年级试题
卷一:
参考作品：
《李白诗选》 《杜甫诗选》 《白居易诗选》
从下列命题中任选一题，以上述作品中的两部为论述的基础，写一篇不少于1600字的评论文章。

命题：
1． 试举例分析古典诗歌所体现的时代特色。
2． 所学诗歌中反映了哪些不同的人生理想？举例说明。
3． 古典诗人在反映现实生活方面所表现的艺术手法有何不同？
4． 古典诗歌是如何描写人与自然的关系的？
5． 试举例分析诗人在其作品中所表达的政治理想。
6． 就艺术风格比较两位诗人。
7． 诗人是如何把社会现实与个人生活相结合的？举例说明。
8． 诗人在揭露社会阴暗面时采用的艺术表达的方式有何不同？作比较说明。

卷二:
阅读下列白居易的诗，择其一首加以评论，要求不少于1200字。

其一 轻肥
意气骄满路，鞍马光照尘。皆问何为者？人称是内臣。朱钹皆大夫，紫绶悉将军。夸赴军中宴，走马去如云，樽镭溢九酿，水陆路八珍。果擘洞庭橘，脍切天池鳞。食饱心自若，酒酣气益振。是岁江南旱。衢州人食人。

其二 赋得古原草送别
离离原上草，一随一枯荣。野火烧不尽，春风吹又生。远芳侵古道，晴翠接荒城。又送王孙去，萋萋满别情。

[ 本帖最後由 mattsmum 於 10-9-28 23:19 編輯 ]



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