教育王國

標題: Adnormal Phenomenon between Position in Class and Position in Form [打印本頁]

作者: heidikl 時間: 10-1-30 22:53 標題: Adnormal Phenomenon between Position in Class and Position in Form

I noticed a very adnormal phenomenon of Position in Class vs Position in Form for my son's form. In my son's class, the #3 in class is the #3X (middle part of the 30) in the form. The #7 in class is not even in the Top50 in the form. For my son, his rank in the class is the same as last year but in form is also dropped. Then, I heard from other class, the #8 in class is #2X (very early part of the 20) in the form (for her case, her rank in class is improved by 1, the rank in form is significantly improved. But of course, it may be due to herself hardworking).

I didn't study Statistics but I was 6Sigma black belt before. If we do a hypothesis to test if the 2 classes are the same, I think there is high confidence that the 2 classes are not the same.
So, I have a question if the students were randomly assigned in different classes. I assume it is. If so, why we come out this situation??

- If the teachers of my son's class didn't teach so well relatively so that their academic result dropped relative to other classes? (Personally I don't believe so and I don't want so.)
- If there is big variation in the marking scheme?? (seems this could be the reason)

I hope the school can study this and at least give our parents some explanation on that and if there is some area to be improved. I understand that we should not pay too much attention in the marks and the rank (my son himself doesn't care about that), but at least as a parent, I want the kid to be fairly assessed and we can better understand his progress.

I wonder if I should reflect this to the school? Any suggestion??

作者: ahchoi 時間: 10-1-31 00:39

Hi Heidikl,

I'm not sure about the marking scheme of the lower grade, but for p5, I think they have tried to be fair in marking. For instance, according to my girl, all the Chinese composition exam papers were marked by the same teacher. Subjectivity may sometimes plays a role in some papers, such as VA and oral testing. But up to this moment, I personally think TSL teachers are quite fair.

If you have doubt, I think you may feel free to send an email to your son's class teacher to learn more. I think the school may also find something odd about the ranking and they have re-calculated the scores. My girl's form ranking was slightly changed after adjustment.

Ahchoi

[ 本帖最後由 ahchoi 於 10-1-31 09:45 編輯 ]

作者: principal 時間: 10-1-31 09:26

heidikl,

As far as I know, the allocation of pupils to classes is at random.
Therefore, it could be possible that certain top pupils are allocated to class X at random so a similar position in class X might rank higher in grade than other pupils in class Y who rank at similar positions in class but not so high in grade.

原帖由 heidikl 於 10-1-30 22:53 發表

I noticed a very adnormal phenomenon of Position in Class vs Position in Form for my son's form. In my son's class, the #3 in class is the #3X (middle part of the 30) in the form. The #7 in class is ...

[ 本帖最後由 principal 於 10-1-31 09:31 編輯 ]

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-1 12:46

同意 ahchoi 所講, 如果有疑問, 應該 send email 或約見老師求個明白.

作者: TINGMUM 時間: 10-2-1 12:55

I agree Ah choi. My daughter also said their Chinese exam papers were marked by the same teacher. However, I found that some class teachers inform the TOBs and Chinese dictations quite late if compare with other classes. I think it would be more fair if the subject teachers in the same form can tell the students TOBs or dictations at the same day.

我估tobs/ dictations成績都有些少影響名次. 早通知的班可能多時間準備成績好d, 得果兩三日時間準備的班, 如果果幾日多野做, 又會平均來說做得冇咁好. 我睇法不一定正確, 不認同的希望唔好介意!

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-1 13:58

呀女佢嗰班嘅TOBS同中文默書通常都會有星期六同星期日嘅時間比佢地溫書, 好似呢兩日嘅TOBS同中默都係上個禮拜中就已經知道, 我都覺得OK嘅~ 不過係呀女懶唔溫, 唔到時候都唔攞本書出嚟, 真激死.:-x

原帖由 TINGMUM 於 10-2-1 12:55 發表
I agree Ah choi. My daughter also said their Chinese exam papers were marked by the same teacher. However, I found that some class teachers inform the TOBs and Chinese dictations quite late if compa ...

作者: Bluestar 時間: 10-2-1 18:44

我地就算一早知
都me me mo mo
到之前那天才溫書
早同遲都無乜大分別
(eg 今天中文默書都係昨晚才溫

)

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-2 09:30

我呀女都係昨日先溫, 懶到死

原帖由 Bluestar 於 10-2-1 18:44 發表
我地就算一早知
都me me mo mo
到之前那天才溫書
早同遲都無乜大分別
(eg 今天中文默書都係昨晚才溫 )

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-2 10:52

點解我地幾個小朋友一模一樣嘅...............唉

作者: Bluestar 時間: 10-2-2 12:39

原帖由 DaddyCool 於 10-2-2 10:52 發表
點解我地幾個小朋友一模一樣嘅...............唉

物以類聚
(incl this forum + this thread)

作者: flostangraphy 時間: 10-2-2 13:02

are you all green like me as well??!!

原帖由 Bluestar 於 2/2/2010 12:39 發表

物以類聚
(incl this forum + this thread)

作者: ahchoi 時間: 10-2-2 13:34

My girl the same. Just finished her TOBS revision yesterday night and got so many..... wrong calculations.

Wish her good luck today.

[ 本帖最後由 ahchoi 於 10-2-2 13:51 編輯 ]

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-2 14:17

同我個女一樣, 都係昨晚先溫.

原帖由 ahchoi 於 10-2-2 13:34 發表
My girl the same. Just finished her TOBS revision yesterday night and got so many..... wrong calculations. Wish her good luck today.

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-2 15:04

而家嘅小朋友, 又唔打得, 又唔鬧得, 一日到黑苦口婆心佢又話你煩, 早二三十年前, 打到呀媽唔認得啦!

作者: principal 時間: 10-2-2 15:10

Bluestar,

"物以類聚"

I hope this is a positive comment!!

“近朱者赤, 近墨者黑”!!

原帖由 Bluestar 於 10-2-2 12:39 發表

物以類聚
(incl this forum + this thread)

作者: principal 時間: 10-2-2 15:12

flostangraphy,

Are you really green or red or black??

原帖由 flostangraphy 於 10-2-2 13:02 發表

are you all green like me as well??!!

[ 本帖最後由 principal 於 10-2-2 15:22 編輯 ]

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-2 15:24

Principal,

我係'黑'架, 所以唔好近我咁多.

原帖由 principal 於 10-2-2 15:10 發表
Bluestar,

"物以類聚"

I hope this is a positive comment!!

“近朱者赤, 近墨者黑”!!

作者: principal 時間: 10-2-2 15:28

angelprincess,

Are you really "black"??

Don't worry!!

Black colour can be washed away by many ways!!

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-2 15:24 發表

Principal,

我係'黑'架, 所以唔好近我咁多.

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-2 15:31

以前呀媽用衣架當騰條, 打到發發聲架.

我曾經太過激氣, 忍唔著眼淚都出埋嚟, 點知呀女一見到我咁嘅樣, 就當堂乜脾氣都收哂, 仲安慰番轉頭同講哂對唔著. 但係我又唔想用呢啲方法lor~ 我覺得而家教細路真係一門好高深嘅學問. (不過可能其他家長啲小朋友乖啲, 冇我個咁激氣)

原帖由 DaddyCool 於 10-2-2 15:04 發表
而家嘅小朋友, 又唔打得, 又唔鬧得, 一日到黑苦口婆心佢又話你煩, 早二三十年前, 打到呀媽唔認得啦!

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-2 15:37

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-2 15:31 發表
以前呀媽用衣架當騰條, 打到發發聲架.

我曾經太過激氣, 忍唔著眼淚都出埋嚟, 點知呀女一見到我咁嘅樣, 就當堂乜脾氣都收哂, 仲安慰番轉頭同講哂對唔著. 但係我又唔想用呢啲方法lor~ 我覺得而家教細路真係一門好高 ...

你地做呀媽激心嗰時都可以喊下, 我地做老豆就真係谷到爆渠, 鬧佢果時佢就入房, 吹佢唔脹! 打佢又驚佢大義滅親..........不過有時過咗一陣都會出o黎 say sorry, 個心當堂軟哂, 死未

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-2 16:08

你都喊吓lor~ 最多我唔笑你啦! 唉吔! 我地又離題啦~ 不如返去'吹水站' 繼續吹, 唔好咗著其他人. Sorry!

原帖由 DaddyCool 於 10-2-2 15:37 發表

你地做呀媽激心嗰時都可以喊下, 我地做老豆就真係谷到爆渠, 鬧佢果時佢就入房, 吹佢唔脹! 打佢又驚佢大義滅親..........不過有時過咗一陣都會出o黎 say sorry, 個心當堂軟哂, 死未 ...

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-2 16:10

用靚啲嘅化妝品去除黑斑?

我地返去'吹水站'再研究.

原帖由 principal 於 10-2-2 15:28 發表
angelprincess,

Are you really "black"??

Don't worry!!

Black colour can be washed away by many ways!!

作者: Bluestar 時間: 10-2-2 16:50

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-2 14:17 發表
同我個女一樣, 都係昨晚先溫.

我個昨晚臨睡前30mins溫

(好似鬥衰咁

)

作者: Bluestar 時間: 10-2-2 16:53

原帖由 principal 於 10-2-2 15:28 發表
angelprincess,

Are you really "black"??

Don't worry!!

Black colour can be washed away by many ways!!

洗底 !!

作者: emanthon 時間: 10-2-4 13:23 標題: 回覆 1# heidikl 的文章

一點也不奇怪,因為五,六年級是有分精英班的ｏ一級有兩班,小兒的那一屆(2008), 6D和6E是精英班,他們的頭幾名,差不多巳包辨全級頭十名的所有位置,成績異常優異,總平均達九十多分!

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-4 14:01

聽講現在已沒有分精英班了.

原帖由 emanthon 於 10-2-4 13:23 發表
一點也不奇怪,因為五,六年級是有分精英班的ｏ一級有兩班,小兒的那一屆(2008), 6D和6E是精英班,他們的頭幾名,差不多巳包辨全級頭十名的所有位置,成績異常優異,總平均達九十多分! ...

作者: SueBeeCheung 時間: 10-2-4 14:01

吓!, 原本TSL都有分精英班, thanks for sharing.

原帖由 emanthon 於 10-2-4 13:23 發表
一點也不奇怪,因為五,六年級是有分精英班的ｏ一級有兩班,小兒的那一屆(2008), 6D和6E是精英班,他們的頭幾名,差不多巳包辨全級頭十名的所有位置,成績異常優異,總平均達九十多分! ...

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-4 14:03

從前是有的, 但知道現在是沒有的了.

原帖由 SueBeeCheung 於 10-2-4 14:01 發表
吓!, 原本TSL都有分精英班, thanks for sharing.

作者: SueBeeCheung 時間: 10-2-4 14:31

哦! 無分好d, 唔好有 labelling 嗎!!!!!!!

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-4 14:03 發表
從前是有的, 但知道現在是沒有的了.

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-4 14:42

不過我淨係知道今年我地五年班係冇分嘅, 但係六年班就唔知有冇啦. 以我所知, 如果係分嘅話, 以前就會由五年班開始就已經分架啦~

原帖由 SueBeeCheung 於 10-2-4 14:31 發表
哦! 無分好d, 唔好有 labelling 嗎!!!!!!!

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-4 15:12

我估應該冇喇, 因為呀女有個同學嘅成績好有可能係 5 年級全級第一, 如果有精英班咁佢兩位應該唔會做到同班同學. 不過 6 年級就唔知有冇 lu........

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-4 15:30

係呀! 全級第一嗰個同學就係喺我個女嗰班, 所以一定唔會分精英班, 因為我個女冇可能入到精英班嘅

(真係衰, 咁樣話自己個女). 同埋之前四年班嘅時候都有問過老師會唔會分, 老師都話唔會喎.

原帖由 DaddyCool 於 10-2-4 15:12 發表
我估應該冇喇, 因為呀女有個同學嘅成績好有可能係 5 年級全級第一, 如果有精英班咁佢兩位應該唔會做到同班同學. 不過 6 年級就唔知有冇 lu........

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-4 15:31

咦! 我地個女會唔會係同一班

原帖由 DaddyCool 於 10-2-4 15:12 發表
我估應該冇喇, 因為呀女有個同學嘅成績好有可能係 5 年級全級第一, 如果有精英班咁佢兩位應該唔會做到同班同學. 不過 6 年級就唔知有冇 lu........

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-4 15:37

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-4 15:31 發表
咦! 我地個女會唔會係同一班

但唔知我地講緊係係同一個呢, 我係問呀女, 佢話應該係嗰位, 因為佢成績真係好勁..............btw, 我呀女讀 A 班

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-4 15:57

我個女都係bor~ 佢嗰班好似加埋佢都係得兩個女仔去leadership camp 咋. 返去 check 番本 camp 簿仔, 咪知道你係邊個同學仔嘅 daddy lor~ 又搵到個失散多年嘅兄弟啦~ 原來大家都係同坐一條船.

原帖由 DaddyCool 於 10-2-4 15:37 發表

但唔知我地講緊係係同一個呢, 我係問呀女, 佢話應該係嗰位, 因為佢成績真係好勁..............btw, 我呀女讀 A 班

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-4 16:00

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-4 15:57 發表
我個女都係bor~ 佢嗰班好似加埋佢都係得兩個女仔去leadership camp 咋. 返去 check 番本 camp 簿仔, 咪知道你係邊個同學仔嘅 daddy lor~ 又搵到個失散多年嘅兄弟啦~ 原來大家都係同坐一條船.

...

哈哈哈, 真係約埋都冇咁橋.......... 今晚問下呀女先 :D

作者: principal 時間: 10-2-4 16:02

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-4 15:57 發表

我個女都係bor~ 佢嗰班好似加埋佢都係得兩個女仔去leadership camp 咋. 返去 check 番本 camp 簿仔, 咪知道你係邊個同學仔嘅 daddy lor~ 又搵到個失散多年嘅兄弟啦~ 原來大家都係同坐一條船.

...

[ 本帖最後由 principal 於 10-2-4 16:29 編輯 ]

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-4 16:09

Principal,

原帖由 principal 於 10-2-4 16:02 發表
angelprincess & DaddyCool,

Is there any feeling of “相逢恨晚”??

[ 本帖最後由 angelprincess 於 10-2-4 16:24 編輯 ]

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-4 16:18

原帖由 principal 於 10-2-4 16:02 發表
angelprincess & DaddyCool,

Is there any feeling of “相逢恨晚”??

principal, 咁使唔使相擁痛哭俾你睇呀...........

(呢個 icon 似唔似哨牙通???)

作者: principal 時間: 10-2-4 16:21

angelprincess,

Very sorry!! Just kidding!!

P.S. : please edit your reply immediately.

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-4 16:09 發表

Principal,

你呢個樣又會令人誤會架啦~ 我地只不過係失散多年嘅兄弟, 唔想又多一次比人鬧呀~

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-4 16:23

Principal, DaddyCool,

我覺得呢個 icon

有啲似啱啱比人拉咗嘅 '陳米通' 呀! 我地又離題啦! 不如返去'吹水站' 再傾lor

原帖由 DaddyCool 於 10-2-4 16:18 發表

principal, 咁使唔使相擁痛哭俾你睇呀........... (呢個 icon 似唔似哨牙通???)

作者: principal 時間: 10-2-4 16:23

DaddyCool,

Very sorry ...................... just kidding!!

Please edit your reply immediately.

原帖由 DaddyCool 於 10-2-4 16:18 發表

principal, 咁使唔使相擁痛哭俾你睇呀........... (呢個 icon 似唔似哨牙通???)

[ 本帖最後由 principal 於 10-2-4 16:50 編輯 ]

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-4 16:27

Principal,

我都係同你講笑咋! 唔講邊有得笑呢? 學Silvia話齋, 輕鬆d啦~

原帖由 principal 於 10-2-4 16:23 發表
DaddyCool,

Very sorry ...................... just kidding!!

Please edit your reply immediately.

P.S. : Please keep your handsome image of "三哥", instead of "fortune ...

作者: Bluestar 時間: 10-2-4 19:53

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-4 14:42 發表
不過我淨係知道今年我地五年班係冇分嘅, 但係六年班就唔知有冇啦. 以我所知, 如果係分嘅話, 以前就會由五年班開始就已經分架啦~

P5 class = P6 class

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-4 22:22

Bluestar,

Thank you.

原帖由 Bluestar 於 10-2-4 19:53 發表

P5 class = P6 class

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-5 11:00

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-4 15:57 發表
我個女都係bor~ 佢嗰班好似加埋佢都係得兩個女仔去leadership camp 咋. 返去 check 番本 camp 簿仔, 咪知道你係邊個同學仔嘅 daddy lor~ 又搵到個失散多年嘅兄弟啦~ 原來大家都係同坐一條船.

...

點解我呀女話冇 camp 簿o架...............

作者: TINGMUM 時間: 10-2-5 11:50

angelprincess,

我一直以前我地囡囡同班, 而家先至知唔係! 原來P5係有兩位MISS PUN!

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-5 11:53

其實係一本8-10頁紙嘅書仔, 學校自己整嘅, 有哂每一group啲隊員名, 仲有每日嘅活動係做啲乜. 可能你呀女已經掉咗lu~

原帖由 DaddyCool 於 10-2-5 11:00 發表

點解我呀女話冇 camp 簿o架...............

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-5 12:03

TINGMUM,

我都懷疑係咪其實唔同班, 因為上次同個家長pm, 佢好似話佢個小朋友同你嗰個同班, 但係佢個小朋友就B班, 但係我地兩個小朋友嘅班主任都姓Pun.

不過唔緊要, 大家都係5年班, 只不過係隔離啫, 況且可能我地兩個小朋友都識大家嘅, 你知啦, 學校咁多活動, 隔離班都可以互相照應, 我地都可以互相關照, 大家同坐一條船嗎~ 我諗我地會傾得愈來愈多, 因為大家嘅小朋友就嚟要呈分啦, 我地要互相支持呀!

原帖由 TINGMUM 於 10-2-5 11:50 發表
angelprincess,

我一直以前我地囡囡同班, 而家先至知唔係! 原來P5係有兩位MISS PUN!

作者: TINGMUM 時間: 10-2-5 12:57

angelprincess,

係呀, 其實在bk同級p5的, 我地小朋友都互相認識, 所以我地呢個team有好大的back up!

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-5 13:46

TINGMUM,

我地同啲小朋友一齊努力加油!

原帖由 TINGMUM 於 10-2-5 12:57 發表
angelprincess,

係呀, 其實在bk同級p5的, 我地小朋友都互相認識, 所以我地呢個team有好大的back up!

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-5 14:52

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-5 11:53 發表
其實係一本8-10頁紙嘅書仔, 學校自己整嘅, 有哂每一group啲隊員名, 仲有每日嘅活動係做啲乜. 可能你呀女已經掉咗lu~

有呀有呀, 之不過係冇相片 ga 喎......

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-5 14:55

原帖由 TINGMUM 於 10-2-5 12:57 發表
angelprincess,

係呀, 其實在bk同級p5的, 我地小朋友都互相認識, 所以我地呢個team有好大的back up!

係呀, 因為就算今年唔同班, 可能之前已經試過同班, 又或者明年會同班, 所以我地互相打氣啦......:D

作者: DaddyCool 時間: 10-2-5 14:55

原帖由 angelprincess 於 10-2-5 13:46 發表
TINGMUM,

我地同啲小朋友一齊努力加油!

x 2

作者: angelprincess 時間: 10-2-5 15:01

我都冇話有相, 自作聰明

不過遲啲應該有相放上學校個website度. 到時再相認啦~

原帖由 DaddyCool 於 10-2-5 14:52 發表

有呀有呀, 之不過係冇相片 ga 喎......

作者: bkman 時間: 10-2-11 03:48

如果你D資料係無錯，我同意你說法。因為TSL從2003-2004年開始已經無精英班。以前有無我就唔知。 03/04年開始，每班都係從全級第一名開始派入A班，全級第二名派入B班，全級第三名派入C班。。。如此類推，然后全級第六名又派入A班，第七名派入B班。。。。所以基本上每班的學生成績，都係好平均，都係從最好排起。所以理論上全班排名在頭10%的學生，在全級也應該係排名全級頭10%之內, 當然會有多少VARIATION, 不過應該唔會好大, 大到好似你所講。所以我建議你跟學校了解一下，我都想知點解（其實係8下，嘻嘻）。謝謝。

P.S. SORRY~~~ 我忘記問你小朋友幾年級, 如果係P.1, 我以上解釋就唔啱, 因為P.1每班的成績可能好參差, 你說的現象有可能發生。至于每班的排名和級排名，應該係以成績表的總平均分排列的。同學與同學之間的參差，有可能做成你說的情況。個人理解，唔知啱唔啱。

原帖由 heidikl 於 10-1-30 22:53 發表
I noticed a very adnormal phenomenon of Position in Class vs Position in Form for my son's form. In my son's class, the #3 in class is the #3X (middle part of the 30) in the form. The #7 in class is ...

[ 本帖最後由 bkman 於 10-2-11 05:31 編輯 ]

作者: heidikl 時間: 10-2-18 18:00

Extremely busy for the past 2 months and so no time to chat here. Thanks for everyone opinion.
My son is in P.2. I guess this phenonemon may be due to the randomness and it may be due to some marking scheme difference among different classes. Having said so, I think it's not a big deal in lower classes as it will not affect their Secondary school allocation or future.
I'm glad to hear that in the upper classes, there is 1 teacher marks the whole form paper for those critical papers, like composition, then I think it will be fair and it does matter.

原帖由 bkman 於 10-2-11 03:48 發表
如果你D資料係無錯，我同意你說法。因為TSL從2003-2004年開始已經無精英班。以前有無我就唔知。 03/04年開始，每班都係從全級第一名開始派入A班，全級第二名派入B班，全級第三名派入C班。。。如此類推，然后全級第六名 ...

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