教育王國

標題: 真假教徒?? [打印本頁]

作者: jojoliu 時間: 08-11-26 10:04 標題: 真假教徒??

好想知各位父母會唔會因為想多5分而去信教?見到身邊好多人成日問點可以成為xxx教徒,點可以受洗?咁當個小朋友成功左有5分後,請問個D父母重會唔會返教會?真係為5分而去教會又對不對?小朋友大左後有1日問你點解我會有多5分咁又會點答?我知有某部份真係成為教徒,但大部分就

,咁做.....究竟對不對?

[ 本帖最後由 jojoliu 於 08-11-26 10:14 編輯 ]

作者: Nov 時間: 08-11-26 10:29

大家做任何決定都有原因, 在此原因不重要, 重要的是讓自己有機會接觸宗教, 從中學習天主的道理! 由報讀慕道班到完成領洗聖事需要長達年半至兩年的學習(視乎各堂區安排), 我亦介紹了妹妹在今年入讀慕道班, 希望她有其得著, 個人的分享是: 有沒有為囡囡多加5分不重要, 深信天主自有適當的安排.

作者: BBR 時間: 08-11-26 11:40

我妹妹係基督教徒10幾年,佢從未間斷星期日返教會,平時星期六都會返教會幫手攪活動,星期一至五間中都要返去,宜家佢兩個小朋友同老公都係,成家人都好鐘意幫人,成日做義工. 但佢無用這樣野黎同個仔報學校.
我有個朋友,個小朋友一出世就plan好返教會拎多5分,返左3年終於如願以償,之後無再返

作者: baekdoosan 時間: 08-11-26 12:06

沒有所謂對不對, 人家也是按著教育制度的遊戲規則來做. 既然教會學校的規則是優先取錄教徒學生, 那麼安排孩子入教也無可厚非. 至於別人的信仰是真是假, 只有留給神去審判.

雖然為我們真教徒, 眼白白看著假教徒的孩子入教會名校而自己的孩子無份, 心中非常難受. 但我們也只能默默接受神的安排, 這本來就是基督信仰的一部分.

作者: janfion 時間: 08-11-26 12:14

我覺得那些為取5分，而做假教徒的人很可恥。事後真的做了真教徒的話還可以說得通，但那些只為「利用」教徒身份而多取那5分的人，我覺得他們可恥是因為他們與一個強盜沒有什麼分別？都是在剝削、奪取了一直為上帝工作、、做義工、奉獻的教徒所應得的，如今次小一自行收生的小小「福利」。

或者，你們可以黑心地說：「咁，上帝為何又給我們抽中，上帝為何不幫你？」
如是者，道行少點，都該給你氣死了。

作者: BBR 時間: 08-11-26 12:15

但係我又覺得學校的教徒分係比志同道合的人有多5分,如果真係為5分而入教會........當然最後可能佢真係信左教徒故然好,但最後真係係為5分而入,有左分後就唔再信咁........同政府/學校定出黎個原意係米有所出入. 對於我地這些不是教徒但又不屑做出這種行為的大部份媽咪就好唔公平

作者: jojoliu 時間: 08-11-26 12:22

早幾日都曾經响這裡有個媽咪話好開心佢為左個女入教會取多5分終於可以入到心儀小學,佢地已經唔覺得咁做又咩可恥,因為重可以大大聲聲咁响到講

,佢地下一代會點?!會唔會覺得好多野錯都係理所當然?

作者: goodmama2003 時間: 08-11-26 12:41

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作者: pigpigapple 時間: 08-11-26 13:39

每個人信主的歷程都不同, 聖神臨在的時候, 想接觸天主教, 就去教堂感受一下, 最後,當然是有無比的祝福和得着.
去感受主的愛吧
主佑. :) :)

作者: alienova 時間: 08-11-26 13:47

為5分而領冼，其實跟某D人為家人解脫而食齋念佛的一樣. 我唔欣賞但亦唔反對，如果唔係，點有機會讓教會傳教義?? 的確說不定有人在過程中有領悟。

比起來，有些人為了在教堂行一個浪漫感覺的婚禮而入教, 讀教會學校還較有良心，至少還有六年或更多時間對住教會，做下奉獻捐下錢

作者: loy211 時間: 08-11-26 14:03

每人的取向/心態不同,不過天父是知道的.

作者: FITTI 時間: 08-11-26 14:16

其實我本人都想信主,但身邊無朋友信主!

作者: BBR 時間: 08-11-26 14:30

其實我覺得有D似用假地址個case一樣,如果係真教徒當然會覺得可能係神用另一個方式令佢地信神,但係我地唔係教徒的身分就覺得人情上你為左個小朋友無咩好講,但道理上就好錯,好似有時會睇到報紙話因為小朋友無野食,個阿媽去supermarket偷野比小朋友食一樣,咁...佢對或錯呢?可能有些父母覺得做假教徒又傷害唔到人(但我覺得其實佢地咁做已經係傷害左某D小朋友)無所謂,但我就過唔到自己個關,我驚我小朋友第時做錯野時會同我講"車!有咩所謂,你以前都係咁騙人啦,重知我咁做個目的都係想件事好,個過程係點無所謂啦,達到目的米得law"咁我真係唔得佢死

.
我體諒到咁做的媽咪,但我唔認同佢地咁做

作者: skateboardp 時間: 08-11-26 14:36

原帖由 FITTI 於 08-11-26 14:16 發表
其實我本人都想信主,但身邊無朋友信主!

Hi Fitti,

好高興您想認識耶穌! 您住邊區? 我嘗試幫你搵一間教會...

如你住港島區,我誠意邀請您返播道會同福堂: http://www.tungfook.com

願主祝福您!

作者: BB2_AM 時間: 08-11-26 14:53

其實我都好想清楚, 有啲學校係天主教, 有啲係基督教, 咁例如已經係天主教會都一定有5分, 但個間學校係基督教, 會唔會無咗個5分, 如果係, 咁d人做乜要做假教徒??

作者: skateboardp 時間: 08-11-26 14:55

保羅在腓立比書這樣説:

15  有的傳基督、是出於嫉妒分爭．也有的是出於好意．
16  這一等、是出於愛心、知道我是為辯明福音設立的．
17  那一等傳基督、是出於結黨、並不誠實、意思要加增我捆鎖的苦楚。
18  這有何妨呢．或是假意、或是真心、無論怎樣、基督究竟被傳開了．為此我就歡喜、並且還要歡喜。

雖然動機未必正確, 但福音的種子總已播在未真正相信的家長及小朋友心中,我為此仍要感謝神. 求主引領, 讓他們可以藉著這機會去真正認識衪!

願主祝福每一位!

作者: aknchan 時間: 08-11-26 15:04

The 5 points for same religion is a very interesting topic.

When these churches setup these 'hot' schools in HK many many years ago, their main goal and purpose was to preach their religion and attract more people.
Their target audiences are definitely non-believers and should at least gives equal opportunity to believers and non-believers to enroll.
No doubt about this.

This 5 points for same religion are obviously something churches bargain from the government to 'favor' their own followers when recruiting P1 students.
This decision is obviously made by church members to give other church members the advantage, since church members are the ones who RUN and FUND the church.

But isn't this contradictory to why the schools are being setup in the first place?
Shouldn't a real believer be happy when he/she hears that a non-believer got a chance to receive this wonderful religion? (But I guess not when it is at the expense of that believer.)

This 5 point barrier were requested by believers (insiders) to block away non-believers (outsiders).

I am definitely not an advocate on "faking as a believer" because it is a silly thing to do in my eyes.
But after all, a "fake believer" is simply leveling the playing field by removing the barrier setup by believers.

作者: jojoliu 時間: 08-11-26 15:37

但點解個個教會都話歡迎住何人信神,咁.......點解教會學校又要收返佢地教會D人,既然想多D人信神,唔係應該更加要收非教徒學生黎行神跡咩

,我只係成日唔係好明,個個教徒成日講神跡,成日話神愛世人,咁點解要分咁多唔同宗教,既然想多D人信神,點解又會將同自己宗教的人好多野有優先,既然愛世人點解收生時要問宗教?唔係應該更加要收唔同宗教的學生嗎?
其實我真係唔明,因為成日聽到愛世人,但又分咁多派,跟住派同派之間大家又唔承認.
我相信好多真教徒係有一顆善心,我都好尊敬佢地,但响佢地高層裡面點解又要咁分?

作者: zachnana 時間: 08-11-26 16:14

I respect your point of view but why such case is not happened in ours years of school and for many years before the Reform? I was brought up in a catholic school but turning out not a catholic but Christian and I don't see the religious school will gain any more benefit if they have students with the same religion. I would rather believe it is EDB's decision to put this consideration into account and they think they are selling the best marking scheme plan to parents?

原帖由 aknchan 於 08-11-26 15:04 發表
The 5 points for same religion is a very interesting topic.

When these churches setup these 'hot' schools in HK many many years ago, their main goal and purpose was to preach their religion and attra ...

作者: janfion 時間: 08-11-26 17:19

以我所知，有些基督教學校是會接受天主教徒洗禮紙證明而獲加那5分，但只會是個別學校的決定，所以我估這個5分的論點，應該是教會學校自己提出的。

其實公道自在人心，過得人過得自己；抽到的人咪說「公平」，抽唔到或無得抽的便會說「唔公平」。

我自己是抽唔到的那一批「真」教徒，咁又可以點？公道一點說：我自己覺得，已經算係咁。記住我是抽唔到的一位。

如圖所示：
50%以計分排位（教職員＞家姐、哥哥＞校友、教徒＞其他人）
10%（任何人＋任何地區）
40%（地區抽籤）

說到底，校友、教徒為學校、為宗教所付出的金錢、時間和心力，所得的應有回報--有優先權是正確的，只是你們無份去抽而有異議！其實已經有50%（即一半）以上的位，為何仍要說不公平？

[ 本帖最後由 janfion 於 08-11-26 17:23 編輯 ]

作者: beaclem 時間: 08-11-26 17:27

如這是上主的允許, 祂自有祂的旨意在這位家長身上, 如上主不允許, 就算你做甚麼也不能入教....

為什麼要判斷別人呢? 要知道只有上主才有判斷的權柄

我不會覺得這些家長不好, 但我真心希望他們領洗入教時雖然目的不甚純正, 但領洗入教後會因為上主的慈愛, 漸漸改變

主佑

原帖由 Nov 於 08-11-26 10:29 發表
大家做任何決定都有原因, 在此原因不重要, 重要的是讓自己有機會接觸宗教, 從中學習天主的道理! 由報讀慕道班到完成領洗聖事需要長達年半至兩年的學習(視乎各堂區安排), 我亦介紹了妹妹在今年入讀慕道班, 希望她有其 ...

作者: BabyCannan 時間: 08-11-26 17:38

咁我想問如果我已是基督徒，但心儀既學校係天主教學校，咁係咪真係要個小朋友到天主教堂領洗先有果5分?

作者: CSW 時間: 08-11-26 17:42

skateboardp,

絕對同意你。
天父給每一個人的安排都不一樣, 我們且不需要評論他們的動機, 因天父會用我們未必能理解的方法去帶領人信主。最重要是福音的種子已給撒在人的心中。

原帖由 skateboardp 於 08-11-26 14:55 發表
保羅在腓立比書這樣説:

15  有的傳基督、是出於嫉妒分爭．也有的是出於好意．
16  這一等、是出於愛心、知道我是為辯明福音設立的．
17  那一等傳基督、是出於結黨、並不誠實、意思要加增我捆鎖的苦楚。
18  這有何妨呢．或 ...

作者: BBR 時間: 08-11-26 17:45

咁.....我地係米應該助長這個風氣

?
對於我,我唔係教徒,雖然好想入某學校,但我過唔到自己個關,亦唔想個女知道佢個學位係咁得返黎,因為我好重視身教,如果真係想入教會,我會係真係想信神而入,目的單純.
對於有媽咪咁做,我可以體諒,因為大家為人父母,但希望佢地明白佢地咁做係"mok"奪緊其他小朋友的權利而得返黎的,難道唔會咁做個D父母就係唔緊張小朋友嗎?唔係批判,係問良心姐

[ 本帖最後由 BBR 於 08-11-26 17:54 編輯 ]

作者: IceCrm 時間: 08-11-26 17:47

Hi all,

Let me to share my family milestone in religion.

I have been a protestant since very young becos of my primary and secondary school.

My husband 信"訓覺".... means he doesn't get any religion at all. Until my daughter was born, I must send my daughter to Church coz I think ethics and pastoral care makes a person different and be guided toward grace and kindness. However, I am always out of HK for trips. My husband viewed the 5 points is a key to go to desired primary school. This is why he promised to go to Church with us every Sundays. After few years church lives and understanding ethic of bible. He changed and decided to be baptised last year even my daughter has been baptised earlier than him. Although we have got 5 points of religion anyway, we are so happy and find meaningful to go for Sunday service, praying and relying in God. Sometimes even I got worries or difficulties, my husband prayed for me and told me God will decide our ways. I feel so glorious and amazing for such change! He no longer "訓覺" during Sunday's morning, but worshipping God and service the church instead. My daughter just does the same as she sees us as role model.

My conclusion is.... those 5 points are tempting and become the key for ppl who doesn't know God to open the door of the religion. Perhaps this is God Father's will.

[ 本帖最後由 IceCrm 於 08-11-26 17:49 編輯 ]

作者: CSW 時間: 08-11-26 17:53

bbr,

唔好咁睇得咁灰...因為日光之下無新事...此等情況和用假地址等, 均年年發生, 年年有人評論。每人心中的尺不一樣, 我覺得你做什麼, 自己心裏覺得平安便可, 至於別人要做什麼, 到最後, 那條路也是自己選擇的。
另外, 今年interview時, 也有些校長會即場問你報了多少間學校...若有人報了超過5間, 他會否如實答她, 要知道他的孩子就坐在旁邊, 若他說謊...孩子會作何想法?

所以, 都是那句, 自己選擇的路, 以後也是自己去行.

原帖由 BBR 於 08-11-26 17:45 發表
咁.....我地係米應該助長這個風氣 ?

作者: zachnana 時間: 08-11-26 17:56

上有政策, 下有對策. 有d人真係叻到proof of catholics and christians 都有.
但係我們應該做合乎真理的事, 榮神益人.

作者: BBR 時間: 08-11-26 18:03

其實我一D都唔灰,我都好信咩都整定,所以好多野都無所謂,我要做都做左,有幾多學校收個女都無所謂,因為我信上天有安排(雖然唔係你口中的神),不過有人開這個post就走入黎講下,我身邊都有朋友為學校而入教,得到學校後就走人,亦有D真教徒,但品德極之差,有D就好到你唔信,所以我知世界無奇不有

,我做人原則就係要對得住人,過得良心過得人,咁就每日都咁開心

原帖由 CSW 於 08-11-26 17:53 發表
bbr,

唔好咁睇得咁灰...因為日光之下無新事...此等情況和用假地址等, 均年年發生, 年年有人評論。每人心中的尺不一樣, 我覺得你做什麼, 自己心裏覺得平安便可, 至於別人要做什麼, 到最後, 那條路也是自己選擇的。
...

[ 本帖最後由 BBR 於 08-11-26 18:05 編輯 ]

作者: aknchan 時間: 08-11-26 18:32

原帖由 zachnana 於 08-11-26 16:14 發表
I respect your point of view but why such case is not happened in ours years of school and for many years before the Reform?...

It has always been the same. Years ago the church has full control on ALL their P1 seats and decides who gets in or not. Also, they are allowed to test the kid which ever way they see fit. It is after the reform that they are left with control on a few seats and 50% of the seats decided by this crazy point scheme.

This is also the reason why the church has to fight to the very last breath for the religion/old boy girl/parents who works here/etc points.

原帖由 zachnana 於 08-11-26 16:14 發表
... I don't see the religious school will gain any more benefit if they have students with the same religion. I would rather believe it is EDB's decision to put this consideration into account and they think they are selling the best marking scheme plan to parents?

They have little to gain (in respect to spreading their religion) byenrolling a new student with the same religion BUT THEY HAVE EVERYTHINGTO LOSE IF THEY DO NOT PROTECT THE INTEREST of their fellow churchmembers.

What kind of pressure will they have to face if they do not 'favor'their fellow church members who have "done so much for the church".That is why believers hate "fake believers" so much because they stealtheir advantages.

I don't believe EDB has plan or wanted all these. Allocating P1 seats while trying to satify all parties (or at least not provoke too much) is an IMPOSSIBLE TASK. Period.

The current scheme is simply comes out of a "balance of power deal" and is not a product by EDB's design.

The truth is, churches and schools are organized and have a 'bigger' bargaining power than those un-organized soon-to-be P1 parents.

作者: goodmama2003 時間: 08-11-26 19:15

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作者: Furbabies 時間: 08-11-26 20:37

I think these are really 2 separate issues. While the end result might be a thankful one, it doesn't make right the original wrongful intent.

作者: momochiu 時間: 08-11-26 21:33

唔好睇得教會及d教友都咁陰謀及利益, 可能你唔係教友, 就會覺得教會無私的giving後面一定帶有私心。教會唔係生意, 好多教友都唔係為私利而返。我們都不是完美的人, 有時做錯, 講錯亦請你們非教友原諒。

但我們直的很需要將子女送進教區學校, 因為我們希望年少無知的子女可在一個我們認同的信仰和道德中成長。如果唔係, d教友子女應去邊?

出面好多學校巳經否定有天主存在, 加上小朋友對老師及朋輩的說話絕對非常信賴, 我們做家長的說一百回都不及佢地一個字。

大家收half and half, 有收教友及非教友, 大家happy。

非教友喜歡送子女入教會學校, 好多都係喜歡教會學校教d小朋友會正直d, 乖d......

原帖由 aknchan 於 08-11-26 18:32 發表

It has always been the same. Years ago the church has full control on ALL their P1 seats and decides who gets in or not. Also, they are allowed to test the kid which ever way they see fit. It is aft ...

作者: sleepwell 時間: 08-11-27 12:42

其實我個人都唔反對為咗5分返教會, 我覺得最緊要係佢到受洗一刻真係信.

而呢個game呢, 確實係對啲冇宗教信仰嘅人唔公平, 其實可否報冇宗教學校時, 冇信仰嘅有分加???? 咁會公平啲.

原帖由 momochiu 於 08-11-26 21:33 發表
唔好睇得教會及d教友都咁陰謀及利益, 可能你唔係教友, 就會覺得教會無私的giving後面一定帶有私心。教會唔係生意, 好多教友都唔係為私利而返。我們都不是完美的人, 有時做錯, 講錯亦請你們非教友原諒。

但我們直 ...

作者: kaifu 時間: 08-11-27 13:16

"而呢個game呢, 確實係對啲冇宗教信仰嘅人唔公平, 其實
可否報冇宗教學校時, 冇信仰嘅有分加???? 咁會公平啲."

If this is adopted, the applicants have to provide some official documents, just like those applying for religious schools. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a "non-religious certificate".

原帖由 sleepwell 於 08-11-27 12:42 發表
其實我個人都唔反對為咗5分返教會, 我覺得最緊要係佢到受洗一刻真係信.

而呢個game呢, 確實係對啲冇宗教信仰嘅人唔公平, 其實可否報冇宗教學校時, 冇信仰嘅有分加???? 咁會公平啲.

...

[ 本帖最後由 kaifu 於 08-11-27 13:19 編輯 ]

作者: sleepwell 時間: 08-11-27 15:38

Then I think may be for those applicants have religion, if they apply religious school, EDB will have their details on record. If they apply non-religious school at the same time, points will be deducted for applying non-religious school.

原帖由 kaifu 於 08-11-27 13:16 發表
"而呢個game呢, 確實係對啲冇宗教信仰嘅人唔公平, 其實
可否報冇宗教學校時, 冇信仰嘅有分加???? 咁會公平啲."

If this is adopted, the applicants have to provide some official documents, just like those app ...

作者: momochiu 時間: 08-11-27 17:19

我個人覺得教友應該有多5分, 因為方便教區學校回收教友子弟, 讓教友子弟可以優先在教會教校得到教育。主要是可以多接觸天主的真理, 非教友有好多無宗教又好的學校, 點解仲要我們放棄個小小的5分?

你們不在意學校是否有宗教堂, 因你們不信, 去邊間學校其實分別可能不大。
但個堂宗教堂及教教學習環境就對我們作為教友的意義重大, 我們不想d子女因為教會學校不能自主先回收教友學生, 而被派到無天主信仰的學校而遠離天主。

其實你們的選擇比我們多, 我們只有天主教學校選, 你們有both, 我們好歡迎非教友子女入讀, 因這樣子可以傳道, 但懇請你們不要去除我們的子女可以親近天主的權利。

作者: kaifu 時間: 08-11-27 17:26

But everybody can only apply for 1 school at the 1st round of lucky draw allocation when those points were counted.

原帖由 sleepwell 於 08-11-27 15:38 發表
Then I think may be for those applicants have religion, if they apply religious school, EDB will have their details on record. If they apply non-religious school at the same time, points will be dedu ...

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