教育王國

標題: 除了學費及名氣, 津校與直資/私校既分別 [打印本頁]

作者: beemaggie221 時間: 08-10-12 01:49 標題: 除了學費及名氣, 津校與直資/私校既分別

唔好意思. 想問問津校與直資/私校既分別 :直資/私校要比學費及名氣外, 課程跟師資等是否有距離 ? 可否講下你們選直資/私校而唔選津校既原因.
以下是我個人觀點, 唔知大家有無同感:

津校 :
政府派位機制
學生較雜 (如多大6人仔女) 始終家教不一致, 與家長話不投機, 亦擔心自己仔女跟他們圍在一起

直資/私校 :
名氣 (同人講都大聲d)
學生 (多出自中產以上, 有階級之分; 所謂近朱者赤. 雖然有錢人也有壞份子, 但家庭環境能提供較優質資源, 讀書/興趣班排山倒海, 想學壞都難d; 相比大6人仔女/屋村仔女, 家庭環境不許, 只能通山跑,相對學壞機會多左)

除了以上幾點, 也很想很想知道師資/課程分別

這是個人觀點, 不起勿插

作者: G-Ma 時間: 08-10-12 02:28

直資/私校:

1. 有自己收生權, 學生程度較為相若, 老師教學上會較易.

2. 學校可自行編制課程, 教學較靈活.

作者: kaifu 時間: 08-10-12 08:31

I share some of your views regarding the benefits of studying in DSS/private schools.  But as my boy has not been successful so far in the current round of interview excercises, I have been rethinking about the differences between DSS/private and govt/aided schools.
I am actually facing a dilemma myself.  While I also want my son to go to a school with students coming from similar family background, I myself was actually growing up in one of the public estates.  I went to primary and secondary schools near my home with classmates coming from China when they were little.  I got into univserity, together with some of my "mainland" classmates.  Most of us are doing fine today with respectable jobs and stable income - essentially upgrading us to the "middle-class" level.
So I have been asking myself: why don't we want our kids to go through something similar?  I had pretty happy school life and turned out to be quite successful.  Is it really good for them to grow up with a bunch of well-protected midlle class kids?
Anyone sharing the same situation with me out there?

原帖由 beemaggie221 於 08-10-12 01:49 發表
唔好意思. 想問問津校與直資/私校既分別 :直資/私校要比學費及名氣外, 課程跟師資等是否有距離 ? 可否講下你們選直資/私校而唔選津校既原因.
以下是我個人觀點, 唔知大家有無同感:

津校 :
政府派位機制
學生較雜 ...

作者: hogwarts 時間: 08-10-12 08:42 標題: 要害是資源及越來越强

香港這個怪胎教育體制中的津/直/私/英童糸統，表面是讓學校有多一点自主权，及使愿意多付出的家長有自由選擇权。
但骨子裹(我曾向教署高官問為什么不在全港推行學卷制，他先问我孩子讀什么学校，知道是直资後，他就兴奮的說：「你唔係有学卷囉！」)是設計了一個系統，讓精英學校更强大，而英童學校更是嚴重資源傾斜，但這还可算是殖民時代留下来的问题。
小數透明度高的學校(要讚)的网站，大家可以找到學校的预算報告，收生足的學校，大多有可觀盈余，現代教育也是要講求资源充足才可交出好成績，在好(名)校资源多，學生相對好的優勢下，直资自然可以越來越强。
所以能不改制為直資的好學校，祇有根基强大的部份天主教學校；如耶穌會及喇沙會的龍头學校在力抗直資潮。
作為家長，在能力許可下，好的直资还是要考慮。
兩天前在孩子學校聽升中講座，就非常慶幸入了一间非常好的學校，也不必為升中烦惱。

p.s. 大家可否不再用大陸人來形容新移民呢？除了原居民，大部份的香港人也都是"舊"新移民。而且新移民多，祇是學校整体成效不好的其中一個原因，我認為制度及资源分配所做成的影响更大。

作者: ChiChiPaPa 時間: 08-10-12 09:05

原帖由 beemaggie221 於 08-10-12 01:49 發表
唔好意思. 想問問津校與直資/私校既分別 :直資/私校要比學費及名氣外, 課程跟師資等是否有距離 ? 可否講下你們選直資/私校而唔選津校既原因.
以下是我個人觀點, 唔知大家有無同感:

津校 :
政府派位機制
學生較雜 ...

課程的分別：官津要跟足規定的課程。直資可自行設計課程，甚至可以不是六年小學、五年中學和兩年預科的學制，但最終要有大部分學生參加香港學制的考試，例子就是真道書院。私立學校可自行設計課程，甚至可以不應考香港學制的考試，例子是保良局蔡繼有。但是當然有不少直資和私立學校都跟隨香港學制的課程，只是在課程設計上，較官津學校靈活。

名氣方面，官津直資私立各有名氣大的學校。

學生方面，有部份官津由於名氣大和必收的「世襲生」數目多，自行收生時已收遠超過百分之三十的學生，再加上實力超凡的叩門生和插班生，這類官津無論在學生水平和家長素質都比很多直資和私小都還要好，因此不能單看津貼模式來選校。

師資方面，官津的人工有規定，而直資私立可按市場決定。但我相信平均水平來說，官津人工和福利都比私立學校好，只是直資私立比較靈活，可以以市場價格請一些專門的老師。因此以平均水平來說，直資私立的師資並不比官津好。你可看各學校在學校概覽公開的教師資料去引證這方面的分別。

[ 本帖最後由 ChiChiPaPa 於 08-10-12 09:08 編輯 ]

作者: skygame 時間: 08-10-12 09:40 標題: 官津學校的老師有難道

所以我覺得教育官津學校的老師有難道(如果是春風化雨果的). 學生及其家庭背景各色其色.直資或私小的學生及其家庭背景大至同方向. 可以說是"自動波"學生.

作者: siuwa 時間: 08-10-12 12:02

原帖由 kaifu 於 08-10-12 08:31 發表
I share some of your views regarding the benefits of studying in DSS/private schools. But as my boy has not been successful so far in the current round of interview excercises, I have been rethinking ...

曾經我既想法同你一樣, 因為自己身邊都有好多"mainland"既同學及朋友, 佢地既成就都唔差. 只不過今時唔同往日, 父母既家教對一個小朋友既成長占好大因素, 當日我地d同學仔既父母都好刻苦耐勞, 教出來既小朋友都好乖巧. 但而家好多佢地既父母懶惰, 成日想不勞而穫, 聲大又口臭. 我唔敢take 呢個risk, 第日自己既小朋友同得佢地多會唔會學左佢地既觀點. 到時就多多錢都補唔返. 如有講錯, 請多包容.

作者: catcatmom 時間: 08-10-12 15:07

以前資訊無甘發達, d父母選學校基於咩野? 我亞媽就話最重係"近", 起身番學唔冼甘早,又可行路番學(最重要), 所以以前既普通官津小學校, 都有好多叻同勤力既小朋友係度讀, 社會有好多成材既人都係出自草根學校.
e+ 時移勢易, 父母有能力個個都搵間好學校, 至於咩野學校為好, 就每個人有5同既標準.
如果樓主安排自己以前間學校比自己小朋友讀番. 我同老公間小學已柝了, 而我地中學就係band3, (之前係band5, e+ upgrade了 ), 就知有mud 分別.

原帖由 kaifu 於 08-10-12 08:31 發表
I share some of your views regarding the benefits of studying in DSS/private schools. But as my boy has not been successful so far in the current round of interview excercises, I have been rethinking ...

[ 本帖最後由 catcatmom 於 08-10-12 15:11 編輯 ]

作者: DSS 時間: 08-10-12 15:31

Side issue:

而我地中學就係band3, (之前係band5, e+ upgrade了 )

This is not upgrade but conversion. There are only three bands nowadays so Band 5 before is equivalent to Band 3 today.

作者: G-Ma 時間: 08-10-12 17:44

我自己小學係係地區名校讀, 其實我覺得老師教學係好公式化, 例行工事, 學期完都未認得哂全班學生既名, 只有好少數係有熱誠既老師. 到升中派位, 係咪都叫我地報dgs 呢類band 1學校, 多d人報, 搏下中既機會可以多d, 但係抽唔到既好似我咁, 結果就派左去第7志願, 一間好普通既中學, 一所咩階層都有既學校. 雖然我結果都大學畢業, 都有自己既事業, 算有一份好多人都羨慕既工, 不過過程係艱辛既, 因為學校既幫助唔大, 英文底子打得唔好, 所以要付出多人好多倍既努力先可以跟得上.

有以往既經驗, 我更加希望可以幫我小朋友搵到一間好既學校, 唔一定係要好有名氣, 而係可以提供到好既英語環境, 小班教學, 老師可以多d時間照顧每一位學生, 有老師既鼓勵同推動, 小朋友係會進展得快好多. 光係呢兩點, 一般既官律學校就比較難符合到我既要求, 所以都好喜幸政府推出左直資呢種新學校, 宜家揀學校的確比我地以前多左好多選擇, 既然有選擇當然係會盡可能幫小朋友揀一間比較好, 比較合適既學校.

作者: loy211 時間: 08-10-12 18:48

每間學校都有好有不足之處,但我相信家長/小朋友背景相若會好d,

作者: mattsmum 時間: 08-10-12 21:51

side issue:
1. is it more difficult to get into DSS or good pulic school or subs. school? maybe DSS.eg. 2000 candidates competing for 150 seats in DSS while 800 compete for 150 seats in subs, school?

2. if there is no chance for DSS, maybe you get a better chance for public school, if those DSS announce acceptance earlier than government.

作者: kaifu 時間: 08-10-12 23:12

Dear siuwa,
I hope you don't teach this kind of values to your kids. We have hired a couple of domestic helpers in the past. They are both new immigrants from Mainland living in a nearby public estate, and the janitor working in our building also has a similar background. To us, they are nothing like what you described below. I was deeply saddened by this kind of comments and I regret that I have brought this issue up here!

原帖由 siuwa 於 08-10-12 12:02 發表
"但而家好多佢地既父母懶惰, 成日想不勞而穫, 聲大又口臭."

[ 本帖最後由 kaifu 於 08-10-12 23:29 編輯 ]

作者: safarimama 時間: 08-10-13 00:22

讓我補充小小.... 其實現在好多官津表面上好似跟足政府課程, 但實況不是的. 它們私底下會用一些叫worksheet 的課程教多/深d. 還有它們仲會辦很多課外課程 (琴棋書畫運動, 要咩有咩, 全力以赴....邊緣學校的老師/校長仲要做埋marketing & promotion!冇辦法啦, 要面對市場競爭, 保持地位, 又驚殺校. 做官津校的老師同校長真係好辛苦!

原帖由 ChiChiPaPa 於 08-10-12 09:05 發表

課程的分別：官津要跟足規定的課程。直資可自行設計課程，甚至可以不是六年小學、五年中學和兩年預科的學制，但最終要有大部分學生參加香港學制的考試，例子就是真道書院。私立學校可自行設計課程，甚至可以不應考香港學制的 ...

[ 本帖最後由 safarimama 於 08-10-13 00:51 編輯 ]

作者: rookiemom 時間: 08-10-13 09:28

some 津校 are as good as 直資/私校, my elder son is in 直資, now my younger son is in 津校, be honest with you, I think that 津校 is better than 直資. So if your child can get into a good 津校, don't waste money.

作者: easybring 時間: 08-10-13 09:45 標題: 回覆 # 的文章

私校/直資/官津...其他3種學校裡面都有分唔同level(校長/老師/家長/學生)既學校. 唔係一定邊種會好d.

作者: 阿西 時間: 08-10-13 09:59

同事打趣說：
如果大家都係壞學生，私校用英文講粗口，津校用中文講粗口。

作者: catcatmom 時間: 08-10-13 10:47

邊私校用英文粗口, 國際學校機會大d,or屋企既人講英文.

原帖由阿西於 08-10-13 09:59 發表
同事打趣說：
如果大家都係壞學生，私校用英文講粗口，津校用中文講粗口。

作者: kaifu 時間: 08-10-13 13:23

There seems to be a myth among us that DSS/private schools in general offer higher quality education than govt/subsidized schools.  However, except for the very few brand-name schools which were converted from subsidized system recently, most of the other DSS/private schools are relatively new without really a "name".  While they may have very good resources like infrastructures and innovative teaching and ECA programs, their human resources may not be as strong as most parents think.  Most of their teachers are relatively new graduates and have little teaching experience.  Good and experienced teachers in the govt/subsidized schools are unlikely leave their jobs for the new DSS/private schools, otherwise they may lose their retirement benefits, among others. Almost all teachers in the DSS/private schools are on still contracts (renewed yearly), even after several years of teaching in the same school.  It may be easy to get rid of bad teachers but it is difficult to retain good teachers too.  Since their salary mechanisms are more flexible, some DSS/private schools can offer a much higher salary to recruit good teachers from another school.
How about the through-train system as promoted by many of those schools as a selling point?
Again, those schools (except for DBS, DGS, Ying Wa, SPCC, etc) are new and have not produced any graduates for people to assess their high school qualities.  It may be too late to find out when our kids are in P4/5 that their through-train secondary school performs poorly in terms of university admission!
Please don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that those DSS/private schools are not worthy for us to apply.  Some of them will be successful, but only time can tell.  Since some parents (ourselves included) appeared to be very disappointed after their kids were rejected at the first round of interviews, I am trying to put forward some rational arguments for everyone to think positively.  To us, going through the interviews with our son has been a very rewarding experience.  We saw him growing up amazingly quickly during this period.  If handled properly, you can improve the relationship with your kids as you prepare the profolio and interviews with them.
I hope everyone is enjoying this process and get the most out of it, even though your kid may not be very successful with the interviews.  Afterall, this is definitely more fun than going through the SARS period while you were expecting your babies!
God bless the 2003 kids and their parents!

[ 本帖最後由 kaifu 於 08-10-13 13:35 編輯 ]

作者: LLT 時間: 08-10-13 14:01

原帖由 kaifu 於 08-10-13 13:23 發表
There seems to be a myth among us that DSS/private schools in general offer higher quality education than govt/subsidized schools. However, except for the very few brand-name schools which were conve ...

Three years ago, I was more or less in similar situation with you at the moment.
I only submitted applications to DBSPD, SPCC and APS for my son but he failed all.
To be honest, apart from these schools, I didn't consider any other primary school worth me paying the school fee (please excuse me if any parents here do not share my view). My son eventually entered a traditional subsidized school renowned for its 'toughness' and strong competition.
To my surprise, though my son's academic achievement does not measure up with his counterparts (indeed his performance is far below his classmates), he likes going to school every day.
I can see that he enjoys his school life very much.
It seems to me, therefore, that happy school life, one of the selling points for many DSSs/private schools, can also be found in traditional subsidized schools. To conclude, I agree with your view.

[ 本帖最後由 LLT 於 08-10-13 16:21 編輯 ]

作者: mamawaga 時間: 08-10-13 15:28

We believe too deeply about one cent=one cent of goods. That's why middle class parents keep believing that DSS/private school offers better education. Sure those schools might have bigger campus and better facilities, but when it comes to teaching quality, I don't think they do any better than govt/subsidized schools.

DSS/private schools are relatively new(unless for a few that are formerly govt/subsidized schools). Think from the perspective of teachers, who would want to work in new schools? Very rarely would be those who taught well in the current school but are willing to leave for the mission of the new school. I bet most of them are students who just got their first degree and cert. ed. + those teachers who weren't doing well in the previous teaching positions.

And if you are someone with a mission to serve, with good credentials and is looking for a teaching job, wouldn't you prefer working in govt/subsidized schools to serve all tiers in the society than to serve the richer tier only?

As a matter of fact, govt/subsidized schools do have much more stringent rules to follow when employing teachers.

原帖由 kaifu 於 08-10-13 13:23 發表
There seems to be a myth among us that DSS/private schools in general offer higher quality education than govt/subsidized schools. However, except for the very few brand-name schools which were conve ...

作者: mow-mow 時間: 08-10-13 16:14

I am sorry to say that the arguments here are rather futile.
There are good DSS / private schools as well as bad ones, & the same is true for government / subsidised schools.
You can only compare like with like - eg DBS & La Salle, or DGS & Maryknoll.
Otherwise, there are always some DSS / private schools (eg SPCC, DGS) that are better than most government / subsidised schools and there are always some government / subsidised schools (eg La Salle, Maryknoll) that are better than most DSS / private schools!
At the end of the day, if you have a choice, then you need to look at each individual school's merit, rather than a broad generalisation of what category the school belongs to.

[ 本帖最後由 mow-mow 於 08-10-13 16:19 編輯 ]

作者: kaifu 時間: 08-10-13 16:55

It is rather fair to "generalize" that those through-train schools which started as a DSS on Day 1 will need many years to demonstrate whether they can deliver what they promise. At this stage they simply don't have a track record. Based on what we know about the hiring systems in different schools, there are legitimate reasons to question the stability and quality of the teaching staff in the new DSS schools, since it also takes a long time to establish a good team of teachers in both their primary and secondary sections.
On the other hand, the brand-name DSS schools were all formerly successful subsidized schools (as far as I know, no govt schools have been and will be converted to DSS/private schools). They already have well-established teaching teams and a long history of excellent track record.

原帖由 mow-mow 於 08-10-13 16:14 發表
I am sorry to say that the arguments here are rather futile.
There are good DSS / private schools as well as bad ones, & the same is true for government / subsidised schools.
You can only compare like ...

[ 本帖最後由 kaifu 於 08-10-13 17:02 編輯 ]

作者: mamawaga 時間: 08-10-13 17:25

Kaifu,

Thank you for opening this topic. I also went through the process of choosing DSS/private vs subsidized school for my kid. Here are some advice that I'd like to share with parents who will visit some schools in future:

1) Don't pay too much attention on the school ideals. Unless the speaker is really bad, it is difficult not to agree with the school mission. Try every means to know more about how actual teaching has been like. One way to do this is to try to flip thro' exercise books of current pupils (sometimes you get access to those on the school's open day) to see how teachers marked pupil's homework----I am very amazed to read "Cantonese style Chinese" remarks written by teachers of a DSS which claimed to cultivate high quality bi-literate and tri-lingual students.

2) Try to sense the morale and manners of the teachers. You may test out their baselines by throwing questions to them. If they can't communicate rationally with an adult, you can guess how they would treat primary school kids.

3) Observe details of the school environment. I once came across a school that is having obselete topics exhibiting on the boards of classrooms.

4) Don't restrict your choice too early. Try to broaden your view by visiting both DSS/private and subsidized schools. Attend their seminars so that you have more refined comparison.

Hope that helps.

[ 本帖最後由 mamawaga 於 08-10-13 17:27 編輯 ]

作者: mow-mow 時間: 08-10-13 17:37

I do agree with some of what you are saying.
However, not all brand name DSS were formerly successful subsidised schools.
DBS primary school is effectively a brand new school as it wasn't converted from DPS, which still runs as a subsidised school.
Ying Wah only had a subsidised primary school for a few short years before converting it to a DSS.
So neither DBSPS nor Ying Wah can claim any good track record as they really don't have any!
Even SPCC can be argued to be a new school as there used to be 2 separate branches (Kennedy Road & MacDonald Road). The current SPCC primary school became a DSS after the merger of these 2 branches. Changes have been unavoidable - is it good or bad - only time can tell.
Your questions on the stability and quality of the teaching staff as well as the length of time required to establish a good team of teachers....etc in many ways also apply to these 3 schools.
Given the choice, I think most parents will choose one of these 3 over most government / subsidised schools.
My point is that new doesn't necessarily mean inadequate. That's why generalisation isn't very helpful.

[ 本帖最後由 mow-mow 於 08-10-13 17:39 編輯 ]

作者: kaifu 時間: 08-10-13 17:58

Given the prospect of getting into Ying Wah, DBS or SPCC secondary sections, all of which having a good track record, I don't think we need to argue about why their primary sections became our favorite picks.
What I want to "generalize" ( i am not sure if it is a good word to use) is that those ALL-NEW DSS through-train schools may not neccessarily turn out to be what people expect at the very beginning, especially for their secondary sections. There is a certain degree of "risk" if we put our kids there. This may be a factor that some parents want to consider before they finalize which school they send their kids to. On the other hand, some parents may have full confidence in those schools for different good reasons. Please be reminded that not everyone holds the same view and this is perfectly natural! Take it easy, mow-mow.

原帖由 mow-mow 於 08-10-13 17:37 發表
I do agree with some of what you are saying.
However, not all brand name DSS were formerly successful subsidised schools.
DBS primary school is effectively a brand new school as it wasn't converted fr ...

[ 本帖最後由 kaifu 於 08-10-13 19:45 編輯 ]

作者: 囝囝爸 時間: 08-10-14 01:42

官津受學制影響, 要有教無類, 學校良莠不齊, 數目佔多下, 好的學校也不少.

私校受長時間考驗淘汰, 僅存下來的當是好學校.

直資好處是資助和學費, 雙重資源. 教學少限制靈活, 給予家長有憧憬有選擇, 能集合一班志同道合家長, 共同推行理想. 其優點也是其缺點, 受經濟環境和收生人數影響, 資源不穩定. 辦學的和家長祈望高, 校長老師不易為, 較難建立一長期穩定教學團隊. 除個別有升中成績小學外, 未來升中升大成績要受考驗, 才可作準.

歡迎光臨教育王國 (/)