教育王國

標題: IB vs GCSE exam [打印本頁]

作者: NLai 時間: 08-5-8 23:23 標題: IB vs GCSE exam

Student from IS normally take IB or GCSE exam,
Questions,
1) Which IS in HK take IB, which take GCSE?
2) What is different for University acceptance in HK or overseas?
3) Do you think is the trend tha most IS will go IB..

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-9 00:27

University only takes good GCSE or IB result. In US, they will also consider SAT, GRE ..etc

作者: almom 時間: 08-5-9 13:42

原文章由 NLai 於 08-5-8 23:23 發表
Student from IS normally take IB or GCSE exam,
Questions,
1) Which IS in HK take IB, which take GCSE?
2) What is different for University acceptance in HK or overseas?
3) Do you think is the trend tha most IS will go IB..

1. You can check for the complete IB school list at the official IB website. Many IS do provide IB program at diploma level. However, except the 2 new schools (RC and DC) that are through-train IB schools, other ESF schools are still running the GCSE program for Years 10 and 11 prior to the 2 years IBD program. Also, AusIS, for example, is also still preserving their own national curriculum other than providing the IBD program, for obvious national reasons. It is best to check out with individual schools.

2. Universities are looking for the best students. And good universities naturally attracts students from around the world. There is no difference of which curriculum you are studying. I guess other than the application procedures, there would be no big difference. However, each university have their own criterior in choosing students. It would be best if you check with each university for updates. As far as the curriculum is concerned, I understand that IBD has a very high standard compared to most national curriculum. The program has probably covered a partial of many first year courses/credits in university. Since the IB program is quite a new thing, many universities are still trying to work out internal guidelines for considering IBD students. Some universities have already been providing IBD graduates with a certain score advance standing and/or exemptions for certain first year courses/credits. But since each university has their own unique way of selecting students, you'd better check out with individual universities.

3. IB is getting more and more recognised and there are more and more IB schools worldwide. I am not surprised if more and more IS would provide IB program even at PYP and MYP levels as an option (IB at Diploma level is quite a mainstream now amongst IS in Hong Kong). However, many international schools here in Hong Kong have national backgrounds. For example, I believe AUSIS will continue with providing their own national curriculum.

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-10 23:17

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作者: NLai 時間: 08-5-11 11:46

Sorry, christf, in fact what is PYP, MYP? is this for US universtity?
Yes I agree, many IS say that they are doing IB, but it does not means that they are able to provide high quality of education.
Is that UK university normally take students by their marks, I check some UK secondary school take high score, but all of them doing IB, or they are not only consider score, what else they will consider?

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-11 12:28

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作者: almom 時間: 08-5-11 13:52

christf,
Relax! Do not overreact every time you see people praising a certain school or system. Everyone has his own reasons making his choice. I did not intend to discuss which curriculum or system is better. Some one asked about IB vs GCSE and I was merely sharing what I know. I never said that IB is better.
Education is more than the last couple of years of education. Education is more than getting a place in an university. If we are really trying to be practical, for the sake of getting into a university, parents do not have to consider IB schools. In fact, all schools in Hong Kong, including free government subsidised schools, have students entering universities.
It is true that IB is for those that are all-rounded. However, I think the whole point of putting a child in an IB school early on is to train him to be all-rounded persons. I do not know whether it is cultural reason or a local trend. Local Hong Kong parents care too much about what their child is particularly good at and would want to spend most resources in helping the child further develop in that area. However, a person cannot be only good at one area and ignore everything else. Life is a basket of everything. Being a science geek can also at the same time have interests in history. As far as I can see in my children's school, a lot if students that are particularly talented in one area can at the same time be good at other areas. Being talented and being all-rounded are simply not mutually exclusive. And the IB curriculum is giving these young talented minds a chance to perform in other not as talented areas too.
It is convenient for a person to choose to do things he is good at and avoid all other stuffs. If you think that is suitable for your child, then simply do not choose an IB schools. However, you cannot deny that there are people that are really talented/gifted in one area and at the same time willing to learn more of other things. There are those talented/gifted ones that are willing accept the challenge of doing things they are not good at, and accept the fact that they are not no.1 in those more average areas.
Further, the whole thing I like about IB is exactly that students have to take both science and humanities at all levels. And this is exactly what most American and Canadian universities are doing.
Life is short. I do not want to spend time picking on a school or system that I do not like. But I must clarify certain things you said about IB, which I think is not true. Regarding other schools or curriculum, I do not think I am in a position to comment.

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-11 15:16

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作者: warrrren 時間: 08-5-11 17:07

In fact, only the IBD can be useful. There is no need to apply accreditation for PYP and MYP. It is just wasting of money and resources. Those schools which strike for PYP and MYP accreditation justbecause they want to use it as a marketing tool to attract more applicants.

By the way, an accredited IB school doesn't mean that it can offer ahigh quality of education. It only means it follows the curriculum andrules set by IBO. Like all the local schools are accredited by EB butit doesn't mean all of them can offer a high quality of education.

I agree to the 2nd part of the statement above. Absolutely. The 1st part is however nothing but a generalisation of a completely biased view. There are many ways to get things done. Doing PYP, MYP and DP is one.

Even the IBD system has a lot of deficiencies. It only suitables for those all-round students and cannot cater for those students who have special talent in either science or humanity. The limiation in studying at most two sciences or two humanity subjects at high level may limit the choice of applying some curriculums in some univerisities.

There is a ton of flexibility built into IB diploma grouping of subjects. For examples, an "elective" under group 6 can be replaced by another class from group 2, 3, or 4, or computer science from Group 5. Group 4 - experimental sciences - has quite a number of subjects in the group (such as physics, chemistry, biology, environmental systems, ecosystems & societies, design technology, etc.) and it is up to the students to choose one or two from the group. Likewise, group 3 is a very large group. There are subjects like philosophy, economics, business management, psychology, social anthropology, information technology in a global society, geography and history in it. The traditional arts vs science way of differentiation is too limited for IB DP.

作者: warrrren 時間: 08-5-11 17:12

By the way, like almon, I don't want to enter into a A level v IBDP debate. Speaking for myself, I tend to think that it is too early to talk about specialised "high level" teaching at middle school level.

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-11 18:55

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作者: christf 時間: 08-5-11 18:59

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作者: warrrren 時間: 08-5-11 23:02

My dearest Christf,

Is what I said that difficult to understand? I said,

The 1st part is however nothing but a generalisation of a completely biased view. There are many ways to get things done. Doing PYP, MY P and DP is one."

I said that in response to your statement that

In fact, only the IBD can be useful. There is no need to apply accreditation for PYP and MYP. It is just wasting of money and resources. Those schools which strike for PYP and MYP accreditation just because they want to use it as a marketing tool to attract more applicants.

Care to prove any of the highlighted parts to show that your statement is not a biased one?

You can study the IBD without going through the PYP & MYP, right?

Of course. No point asking. But, how does this begins to help prove that all those schools which strike for PYP and MYP accreditation just because they want to use it as a marketing tool? Does it follows that PYP and MYP are not useful?Does your statement apply to those prestigious MYP schools as well?

[ 本文章最後由 warrrren 於 08-5-12 08:44 編輯 ]

作者: warrrren 時間: 08-5-11 23:19

Besides, some curriculums in some universities accept at least 3 but not only 2 science subjects studying at "high level".

Sounds like you really knows it. Perfect. I always stand to be educated and love to learn something new. Care to enlighten us further and give us some examples? Which universities and which particular areas of studies do not accept what particular combination of group 3, group 4 and group 5 under IBDP? Say does Imperial requires Physics Chemistry and Biology from applicants to its Medical School?

[ 本文章最後由 warrrren 於 08-5-12 08:12 編輯 ]

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-12 08:30

Some comments from my experience

1. In terms of the development of kids. I think both systems are working as they have been survive for long time. In US, Canada and Australia (those english speaking countries) use other systems.
2. In term of getting into university, IB has the advantage of get in the universities in most of the countries (in US, UK, HK, ..etc).
3. 10 years ago only few "very high quality" secondary school offers IB, it is relatively easy to get in top rank university. As more and more schools offer IB, the university will also consider the standard of the school. (ie. don't try the new IB school as they have no historical record - I don't mean they are bad but it is difficult for univerity to give a fair judgement).
4. Again it is the same for A level stream. According to my expereince, it is easier to get offers from UK universities if you are doing A-Level in those "famous" school as there are historical records. You can check the entry to Oxbriege, they will pick up kids from "famous" school in general. Of course, there are exception.eg. get "straight 10A"

Conclusions:
1. Good to follow IB scheme with good schools ONLY
2. Good to follow A Level scheme with "good" and "famous" international or local schools.
3. Personally, I don't perfer those new IB, DSS or private schools becasue there are NO HISTORICAL RECORD and it is not worth to take the RISK if you have choice.

原文章由 warrrren 於 08-5-11 23:19 發表

Sounds like you really knows it. Perfect. I always stand to be educated and love to learn something new. Care to enlighten us further and give us some examples? Which universities and which particul ...

[ 本文章最後由 matthewdad 於 08-5-12 18:04 編輯 ]

作者: warrrren 時間: 08-5-12 08:47

Fair enough, matthewdad.

作者: almom 時間: 08-5-12 13:02

原文章由 christf 於 08-5-11 18:55 發表
You can study the IBD without going through the PYP & MYP, right?

Yes. In fact, you can enter universities without going through IBD. Actually, you can go to universities without the need to pay for the fees and debenture etc of international schools. Local education is free and each year, many students from local school are able to get a place in top universities.

作者: NLai 時間: 08-5-13 00:01 標題: 回覆 #1 almom 的文章

Actually, I want to ask is that any offical web site for IB exam or related website on this matter?
My daughter is going to secondary in 2009-2010, and her school is doing IB for at least 10 years.
I need to have more understanding about what she is going to do.

作者: 中天英 時間: 08-5-13 01:26

咦, 乜咁熱鬧呀, 講IBD v.s. GCE A-Level, 我都想發表一吓愚見。

GCE A-Level 由來已久, 香港受英國影響, 一直以來, 學制都依循英制。本地學校如此, HKAL係 GCE A-Level 既本地版; Int'l School 亦以考GCE A-Level 居多( 當然亦有跟美國、加拿大或澳洲既課程既 IS)。

IBD 係比較新既課程, 起初主要係比D联合國人員同英、美公司駐外員工既子女讀, 無論身在何國, 都有一個統一課程同考試; 由于IBD既水準高, 近十幾年來, 好多National School 都樂于採用。

咁邊個課程好D？眞係好難講, 各有各好, 每個人既講法都唔同。

但係近幾年IBD既走勢好勁, 香港好多IS都轉投IBD陣營, 而家行緊既, 包括CIS, ESF, FIS, LPC, YC, 連AIS都可選擇IBD漆; 淨低重考GCE A-Level 既主要IS, 就所餘無幾( 以GSIS為主 )。

咁點解有咁既轉變？  愚見認為有幾個主因;

1)  IBD要求文理兼備, 避免學生過早專門化, 迎合國際教育既大趨勢,
2)  IBD理程嚴格,  評分唔拉curve, 質素有保證; 返之近年GCE A-Level 考倒Ａ既人, 實在太多, 嚴緊性備受質疑.
3) 近年好多最Top既IS學生, 好想入HYP等美國頂级大學, 而IBD幫助會較大

其實除左IS, 本地既學制都會改變, 棄用英制5 + 2 + 3模式, 轉用3 + 3 + 4制度; 中學只有一次公開考試, 同樣要文理兼備, 癈除文理分科( 好多人都話香港新高中文憑HKDSE, 係抄IBD既)。

作者: warrrren 時間: 08-5-13 10:21

The Tariff published by UCAS not long ago may be of interest to the readers here. See http://www.ucas.com/students/ucas_tariff/tarifftables/ for details.

作者: NLai 時間: 08-5-13 11:35 標題: 回覆 #2 中天英的文章

Oh, I understand more now.
In fact, I think one thing is very important in IBD is '評分唔拉curve', but does it means only one public exam they will take during secondary education?

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-13 15:13

It is difficult to understand the report.
Can you give us some example ...
How much points will get if get AAB or BBC (says)in GCE A Level Exam?

原文章由 warrrren 於 08-5-13 10:21 發表
The Tariff published by UCAS not long ago may be of interest to the readers here. See http://www.ucas.com/students/ucas_tariff/tarifftables/ for details.

作者: warrrren 時間: 08-5-13 15:40

原文章由 matthewdad 於 08-5-13 15:13 發表
It is difficult to understand the report.
Can you give us some example ...
How much points will get if get AAB or BBC (says)in GCE A Level Exam?

I am no expert but here are some pointers.

First, see also this page: http://www.ucas.com/students/ucas_tariff/

In your examples, the student who gets AAB scores 360, and the other student who gets BBC scores 280. In reality, both students may score more because chances are that they (a) will take more than 3 subjects in A level, and (b) they may score some more marks for Advanced Supplementaries.

If you are seriously interested, you may have a look of this: http://www.ucas.com/website/documents/tariff/tariff_reports/ib.doc. There are some interesting details in it.

[ 本文章最後由 warrrren 於 08-5-13 16:06 編輯 ]

作者: tingtingting 時間: 08-5-13 16:09

Some people say IB is more suitable for students strong in language. Is that true?

作者: almom 時間: 08-5-13 17:24

原文章由 tingtingting 於 08-5-13 16:09 發表
Some people say IB is more suitable for students strong in language. Is that true?

It depends on which "level" you are talking about.

PYP (primary school) ..... I would say that there are most tolerence for students with less competent English skills. The classroom setup (one classroom teacher per class + shared teaching assistances + shared teaching specialists, etc) can cater for those slightly weaker in English. Some children can improve a lot after half to one year with an international school. However, if a child is unable to really catch up with the rest when before entering MYP, it is really hard for him to get good grades.

MYP (years 7 - 11) ..... I would say that students need to have good language skills. At my child's school, many subjects are not textbook subjects, ie you do not have a textbook to follow. Students need to comprehend in class and have to be able to follow what the teacher is doing/teaching. Classes are now divided into separate subjects. And, for example, the Math or Humanities teacher would not be able to have all the time to help a student with his language. There are a lot of writing tasks and students need to write things that can be understood by the teachers. You also need to be able to put your ideas in words and write them out fast. Even English classes in Year 7 are no longer merely English grammar classes or English writing skills classes. They comprise mainly appreciation of books, poems, and in-class discussions of historical and current events. MYP requires class participation. If you do not speak up in class, you get lower grades. And active contribution in class discussions requires strong English skills.

IBDP (Diploma program, ie years 12 & 13) is indeed for students strong in language. Unfortunately, all IBD schools in Hong Kong are all English schools. So that implies that Hong Kong students have no choice but to have good English skills if they want to go to an IBD school in Hong Kong.

IBD is extremely demanding and there will be no time for students to spend on learning simple language skills. Sure students will, as time goes by, be able to further polish their language skills during the 2 years with an IBD school. But they need to have really good basic language skills and study skills before entering IBD level. Generally, I would say that most international schools (even those that did not have PYP and MYP) should be able to train students up to meet the basic needs for IBD.

I would not say that those that are less good in English should not choose IB program. Just that you probably need to spend more time to quickly up-grade your English skills as soon as possible before going to IBD program. And in fact, you need good language skills at this stage no matter which program you are with.

[ 本文章最後由 almom 於 08-5-13 17:31 編輯 ]

作者: tingtingting 時間: 08-5-13 17:31

Dear almon,

Thanks a lot.

作者: almom 時間: 08-5-13 17:38

Thanks to warrrren who posted the useful links.

It is really easier for us to understand further, with the grades of each curriculum quantified.

作者: almom 時間: 08-5-13 17:48

原文章由 christf 於 08-5-11 18:59 發表
The main point of discusion is that you can select a more generalised education or you can select a more
specialised "high level" teaching at the last two years of secondary school under the GCE A-le ...

How can you be so sure if you do not know!
Do not be too obsessed with the polygonal diagrams at the IBO website and presume that IB programs are exactly the equal division of subjects.
IBD courses are divided into different levels. Taking Math as an example, if a student wants to be an engineer, he probably has to take the more difficult Math. If a student is thinking of being a fashion designer, he probably only need to take the general Math. And students can choose whatever suits his future pursuit.
In any case, I personally think that even first and second year subjects at university is hardly "the real thing". I cannot see how "high level" a high school course can be.

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-13 18:14

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作者: christf 時間: 08-5-13 18:24

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作者: warrrren 時間: 08-5-13 18:24

Come on, chrisf. You surely do know what "1st part" and "2nd part" mean, don't you? Do I have to use more colour and different fonts to make my message more readable to you?

You are entitled to your view that A is better than B. I have no problem with that. In fact, I will stand up to defend your right to your view if necessary. What annoyed me is your statement that some schools do MYP and PYP only because they want to attract more applicants. No only is it a serious allegation, it is contemptuous of many hard working men and women, and many good schools worldwide. A serious statement like this is, without proof and substantiation, worse than worthless.

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-13 18:35

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作者: christf 時間: 08-5-13 18:42

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作者: christf 時間: 08-5-13 18:47

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作者: christf 時間: 08-5-13 18:59

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作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-13 19:23

Thanks a lot for your explanation.

原文章由 warrrren 於 08-5-13 15:40 發表

I am no expert but here are some pointers.

First, see also this page: http://www.ucas.com/students/ucas_tariff/

In your examples, the student who gets AAB scores 360, and the other student who get ...

作者: warrrren 時間: 08-5-13 20:28

No matter what combinations and levels you choose, you cannot take 3 science subjects or 3 humanity subjects no matter what levels of those subjects !!! Do you understand my point now?

Although it is going to be difficult, I will try my very best to understand your point. (I told you I am generous and patient, didn't I?) Are you saying that IBO is at fault because it somehow fails to make DP more one-dimensional to take care of the special needs of the one-dimensional students? If I understand you wrongly, it's my fault. Your logic is beyond me.

In any event, as a matter of fact, IBO can be quite flexible. For an example, student in Germany (and Belgium as well, if my memory serves me) who want to study aviation science in universities can do 3 science subjects. There are more exceptions to the general grouping. See the IBO's materials yourself for further information.

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-13 23:02

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作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-13 23:58

Down to the bottom line, please advise which school is recommeded (local, IS or whatever..)

原文章由 christf 於 08-5-13 23:02 發表
My point is that IBD is not flexible enough to take care of various type of people. Besides, I have already said that in order to gain a board knowledge in various aspects, GSCE is good enough as you ...

作者: 中天英 時間: 08-5-14 01:31

"in order to gain a board knowledge in various aspects, GSCE is good enough as you can take 9 to 10 subjects"

呢點我有保留。

現今世界, 知識爆棚, GCSE所包含既野, 係唔夠既; 以美國Ivy League大學為例, 大學頭兩年, 都要再深入去讀文理各科, 目的係 - to gain a board knowledge in various aspects - 要等到第三年, 先至花大量時間讀Major。

Harvard, Princeton 同 Yale 呢D世界级名校, 都唔比學生太早專門化既。

作者: warrrren 時間: 08-5-14 09:38

Dear chrisf,

Are we that far apart?

I did not say that GCSE is bad; I did not say anything bad about GCSE + IBDP; I did not say MYP + DP is the only way to go; I did not say anything bad about schools that go the GCSE + DP way, did I?

My only issue with your statement is that it is contemptuous of many others. It shows no respect for others. And it reflects a somehow biased way that there is only one way to heaven. It may well be that it is, strictly speaking, not necessary to go for PYP and MYP. But, does not follow that schools doing PYP/MYP are not doing them for good causes?

B.R.
W
Still cannot understand why my answers to your posts brought out all these ugly yikes.

作者: xenonlit 時間: 08-5-14 09:55

原文章由 matthewdad 於 08-5-12 08:30 發表
don't try the new IB school as they have no historical record - I don't mean they are bad but it is difficult for univerity to give a fair judgement...

Many people, if not all, know that the Diploma Program of IB is an all rounded curriculum. So the result of DP can reflect the quality of a student and help universities to make judgement. I guess the effect of 'historical record' is minimal.

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-14 10:37

Let vote for the order of preference of primary schools:

1. German Swiss/ESF (have IBD only)
2. Victoria/Kingston/RC with PYP (primary school)
3. DBSPD/DGS/SPCC - local DSS
4. LS/MCS/MSS - no school fee

原文章由 xenonlit 於 08-5-14 09:55 發表

Many people, if not all, know that the Diploma Program of IB is an all rounded curriculum. So the result of DP can reflect the quality of a student and help universities to make judgement. I guess t ...

[ 本文章最後由 matthewdad 於 08-5-14 12:06 編輯 ]

作者: hysterical 時間: 08-5-14 11:54

Yew Chung is not a PYP authorised school. They only offer IB Diploma. RC, Victoria, Hong Kong Academy & Kingston offer PYP. For complete list of IB authorised school, pls see IB website.

作者: xenonlit 時間: 08-5-14 14:19

原文章由 matthewdad 於 08-5-14 10:37 發表
Let vote for the order of preference of primary schools:

1. German Swiss/ESF (have IBD only)
2. Victoria/Kingston/RC with PYP (primary school)
3. DBSPD/DGS/SPCC - local DSS
4. LS/MCS/MSS - no schoo ...

Let me elaborate. For example, three students, both Peter and Paul are from a renowned secondary school with decades of excellent history, and John from a two year old new school, all three of them sit for the same subjects in the same public exam. Results : Peter got ABC, Paul got ABD while John got ABC. Now they all apply for the same subject in the same university. I believe the university would choose Peter and John.
Why people would choose schools with 'good history', because there may be a chance to get good results but does not mean students from a new school will not have good results, therefore 'zero history' of a new shcool should not be a factor. On the other hand a new school needs time to build up reputation is true.

作者: hysterical 時間: 08-5-14 17:32

Very well-put, Xenonlit. I think your argument is sound. As long as the school provides a challanging academic environment, it should not matter whether it's new or old. The students should be well-prepared for whatever public exams they want to take, be it GCSE, IBD or SAT, etc.

However, the college counselor/principal maybe also play a critical role. If the counselor/principal had a good repoire or relationship with certain universities, they will have some pull in helping the borderline or wait-listed students to gain admission. That's how certain famous prep schools have very high percentage of admission into Ivy League universities.

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-14 21:22

If three students, two from a renowned secondary school with decades of excellent history, and one from a two year old new school, all three of them sit for the same subjects in the same public exam a with same result. Now they all apply for the same subject in the same university and only two place left. Which two will be accepted ?

In additonal, who want to take risk if you have choice.

原文章由 hysterical 於 08-5-14 11:54 發表
Yew Chung is not a PYP authorised school. They only offer IB Diploma. RC, Victoria, Hong Kong Academy & Kingston offer PYP. For complete list of IB authorised school, pls see IB website.

作者: hysterical 時間: 08-5-14 22:29

In that case, with three students having the exact same scores on the same public exam, then the admissions committee (from an US university) will look at the other achievements such as sports, music, leadership and/or other areas.

The universities will also look at the courses that the students took in the last few years of secondary school. Are the courses the most challenging ones offered at the school?

Furthermore, the students' portfolio is critical. Does his/her portfolio show that he/she is a person who has broad interests but also persevered in certain areas to demonstrate achievement? The written essay in the application is also very important in differentiating the uniqeness and showing the critical thinking skills of the candidate.

Finally, teachers' recommendations are also a major influential factor. If the teacher/ principal or some well-known individual could provide a glowing recommendation letter for the student, then that maybe all that is needed.

Of course given a choice, one would certainly choose the most well-known school that he/she can get into. However, there isn't always a choice, is there? Especially in HK where almost 99.9% of the schools are full and the waitlists are so long that chances of admission is next to none. We as parents can only do our best to let our kids attend the best school within ours and their abillities.

Thus, speaking from experience, if all three students have the exact same scores on the same public exam. If the two from the renown school are nerds, but the third student from the new school demonstrate a well-rounded portfoloio, I would say with certainty that any US university will admit the third one first, and consider one of the renown school students to drop.

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-14 23:24

After all, which is the choice for your kid

1. German Swiss/ESF (have IBD only)
2. Victoria/Kingston/RC with PYP (primary school)
3. DBSPD/DGS/SPCC - local DSS
4. LS/MCS/MSS - no school fee

原文章由 hysterical 於 08-5-14 22:29 發表
In that case, with three students having the exact same scores on the same public exam, then the admissions committee (from an US university) will look at the other achievements such as sports, music, ...

[ 本文章最後由 matthewdad 於 08-5-14 23:25 編輯 ]

作者: hysterical 時間: 08-5-15 12:03

For me, keeping in mind the ultimate goal of attending university in the US, my first choice would be CIS (IB MYP & IBD), and my second choice is HKIS (US curriculum). My third choice is RC (IB through train).

The other schools are also excellent in many aspects. Just my personal preference.

作者: hysterical 時間: 08-5-15 12:05

What would you choose for your kids?

作者: almom 時間: 08-5-15 12:11

要科學化比較，就要假設其他條件都一樣。
但每間學校都有不同特色，不能就這樣比較。選擇學校，家長都會看學校地點，學校校舍，學校課程，學校宗教，學校收費。
單單說學校歷史較悠久，其實又未必是選擇學校的主要原因，亦不會是質素的保證。
單單是把主流名校之首如 DGS 和 SPCC 放在 Kingston 和 RC 之後的第三位，我相信好多主流學校家長都唔會順氣。

作者: Yau_Cheung 時間: 08-5-16 21:34

原文章由 hysterical 於 08-5-15 12:05 發表
What would you choose for your kids?

1st choices : CIS/HKIS/GSIS
2nd choices : ESF/RC/DC/KCIS
3rd choices : VSA/CKY/ISF
4th choices : local schools

作者: lawlinhy 時間: 08-5-17 06:50

May I know why you put ESF/RC/DC/KCIS before VSA/CKY/ISF?
VSA/CKY/ISF are also under IB and they have more emphasize on Chinese language. Should they be more suitable for HK student?

原文章由 Yau_Cheung 於 08-5-16 21:34 發表

1st choices : CIS/HKIS/GSIS
2nd choices : ESF/RC/DC/KCIS
3rd choices : VSA/CKY/ISF
4th choices : local schools

作者: Yau_Cheung 時間: 08-5-17 17:01

原文章由 lawlinhy 於 08-5-17 06:50 發表
May I know why you put ESF/RC/DC/KCIS before VSA/CKY/ISF?
VSA/CKY/ISF are also under IB and they have more emphasize on Chinese language. Should they be more suitable for HK student?

hi lawlinhy,

Please check pm.

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-17 20:30

My consideration are :
1. capability (speaking and writing) in both English & Chinese.
2. balanced development
3. Good chance to get in top tier university worldwide

1st choices : Top Tier Local Schools (DBSPD, La Salle, St Paul Coed..etc)
2st choices : IS : CIS/HKIS/GSIS/CKY
3rd choices : IS: ESF/RC/DC/KCIS
4th choices : Local IB school VSA

原文章由 Yau_Cheung 於 08-5-17 17:01 發表

hi lawlinhy,

Please check pm.

[ 本文章最後由 matthewdad 於 08-5-17 20:32 編輯 ]

作者: Yau_Cheung 時間: 08-5-17 20:58

原文章由 matthewdad 於 08-5-17 20:30 發表
My consideration are :
1. capability (speaking and writing) in both English & Chinese.
2. balanced development
3. Good chance to get in top tier university worldwide

1st choices : Top Tier Local Schools (DBSPD, La Salle, St Paul Coed..etc)
2st choices : IS : CIS/HKIS/GSIS/CKY
3rd choices : IS: ESF/RC/DC/KCIS
4th choices : Local IB school VSA

hi mattewdad,

Would you mind to share why you put CKY on 2nd and VSA on 4th as both of them are new, IB schools and no track record. Thank you for your kind sharing.

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-18 08:36

CKY is run by non-profit making organization and Victoria is run by fund manager. The measurement is different.
In additonal, I am not very concern on IB for primary school but IBD is important for entering into university.

原文章由 Yau_Cheung 於 08-5-17 20:58 發表

hi mattewdad,

Would you mind to share why you put CKY on 2nd and VSA on 4th as both of them are new, IB schools and no track record. Thank you for your kind sharing.

[ 本文章最後由 matthewdad 於 08-5-18 09:03 編輯 ]

作者: 阿胡 時間: 08-5-18 20:16

原文章由 matthewdad 於 08-5-17 20:30 發表
My consideration are :
1. capability (speaking and writing) in both English & Chinese.
2. balanced development
3. Good chance to get in top tier university worldwide

1st choices : Top Tier Local Sc ...

哈哈, 差好遠喔.

作者: 大吉 時間: 08-5-18 23:10

Yau_Cheung ,

I want to know too. Can you tell me, please?

原文章由 lawlinhy 於 08-5-17 06:50 發表
May I know why you put ESF/RC/DC/KCIS before VSA/CKY/ISF?
VSA/CKY/ISF are also under IB and they have more emphasize on Chinese language. Should they be more suitable for HK student?

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-19 17:00

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作者: christf 時間: 08-5-19 17:30

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作者: christf 時間: 08-5-19 17:48

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作者: christf 時間: 08-5-19 18:02

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作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-19 20:16

For those local IB school such as V, do you expect they can speak fluent english ? I doubt if there are Englaih native speaking classmate to communicate..
For your information, DBS, SPSS ..etc is consider to have IBD in the future. However it is much more difficult to secure a place than local IB school.

原文章由 christf 於 08-5-19 18:02 發表
I think top tier local schools can only meet your first criterion but not the rest.

Even for your first criterion, it depends on your expectation and I don't think top tier local schools can help bu ...

[ 本文章最後由 matthewdad 於 08-5-19 20:19 編輯 ]

作者: mattsmum 時間: 08-5-19 21:54 標題: 回覆 #7 阿胡的文章

阿胡, understand you already went through both systems and even down the road to university, cna you enlighten us more on this issue?

作者: 中天英 時間: 08-5-20 02:43

冇錯, 以前歐洲既教育體係, 係以中學教通識, 預科開始專門化, 大學就更加專門, 目標係大學一畢業, 就可以投身入所選既職業之中。

但係呢個理念, 响現今世界, 已經不合事宜; 因為而家知識更加得太快, 好多响大學階段所學倒既專門知識, 以經唔夠用, 應付唔倒未來幾十年既需求。

所以而家歐洲國家既大學, 已經有共識, 要改革大學体制, First Degree主攻通識, 專門化訓練就要讀Second Degree先至有。

呢種改變令到歐式体制, 更接美國体制。

咁樣一變, 好處大家都明白, 但係需要政府比多好多錢出黎先得, 因為由以往一個degree, 變成兩個, 由3/4年, 變成5/6年, 所以唔係好多歐洲大學, 而家可以afford得起去改變。

反而, 好多以前跟隨英制大學既國家, 以經改緊; 例如University of Melborne, 係澳洲最好既大學, 已經改制, First Degree讀通識, 如果要讀Medicine, Law, Archi 咁, 要Second Degree先有; 就算香港既長期競爭對手 - 星加坡, 同樣比英國統治左好耐, 兩年前, NUS已經成立左一所新既醫學院, 學生要讀完First Degree, 先至可以申請入讀。

就算大學專門化極為犀害既中國大陸, 都認識倒大學通識教育既重要; 中國最好既北京大學, 正推行"元培計劃" , 入讀既學生, 頭兩年冇主修, 主要讀通識, 第三年先揀主修。

原文章由 christf 於 08-5-19 17:30 發表
I think there is no right or wrong answers. The education belief is quite different apart between European countries and the US.

Unlike the European countries, in the US, some curriculums like Law a ...

作者: iamfine 時間: 08-5-20 09:49

All the schools which do a third language use it it as a marketing tool to attract more applicants because a third language is not necessary for university admission.

Both GCE and IB suck because both are nnot flexible enough to deal with specific needs of some students. For examples, some want to specialise in sports or music.

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-20 11:25

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作者: hysterical 時間: 08-5-20 11:43 標題: Check this out!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/5156108.stm

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-20 11:45

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作者: 阿胡 時間: 08-5-20 11:54

mattsmum,

香港教育五花八門, 各位家長對自己的孩子的要求不一, 很難以一概全.

下面, 我只是從我多年來我自己的孩子及其他朋友的孩子經驗, 談談而已.

我對孩子的希望是: (1) 進入美國最好的大學之一; (2) 英文為他們的第一語言; (3)中文可以達到小學畢業的簡單讀寫程度. 但說實話, 個個孩子要做到這三條, 我自己都不能保證.

如果上面三點不是你所想要的, 請不要讀下去. 哈哈. 因為讀下去真是可能會讓你不開心. (就是上面三點都是你想要的, 也可能會不開心.)
要想較順利地進入美國最好的大學, 英文為他們的第一語言可能是必須的. 我不是說如果英文是第二語言沒有可能, 但孩子真是要是出類拔萃.  大陸13億人每年出這樣的孩子也不多, 不會超過200個. 我自認我自己的孩子做不到. 想從香港的主流學校(local schools)畢業而進入美國最好的大學, 不是沒有可能, 但很不容易. 所以, 如果想孩子讀美國最好的大學, 選擇讀香港的主流學校, 是不合適的. 讀香港的主流學校的最大好處是便宜, 但犧牲的是孩子讀好大學的機會.

讀國際學校(IS)會好一些. 但不是間間國際學校出來的學生英文都好. 香港最好的幾間是HKIS, CIS, ESF, LPC. 其他可能還有幾間, 但我不熟悉. 更多的是有些國際學校並不能幫助你的孩子進入美國最好的大學. 恕我不能列舉出來, 怕人追殺也. 哈哈.

就是我列出的上面幾間好的學校, 也都有各自的問題. 最難的問題是, 間間都不是想進就進得去的! 沒有錢當然更不用說了.  CIS明年學費漲10%, 好快一年全部開銷就會過20萬.

讀了國際學校, 對很多家長來說, 中文就變成了一個大問題. 上面幾間學校之中, CIS可能中文最好, 但小學畢業讀寫程度也不是自然而然就會有的. 在HKIS, 部分學生也可以修讀中文課. 有趣的是, 連97之前不准學生在校園裡講中文的ESF, 近年也開始有中文課. 但如果家裡不幫助, 事實上, 要學生達到小學畢業的簡單讀寫程度, 是很困難才能做到.  間間國際學校都如此, 除非是掛羊頭, 賣狗肉的國際學校. 如果問學校, 學校當然會告訴你可以達到小學畢業程度. 但是實上是只有極少數的學生可以. 哈哈.

要讀國際學校的孩子中文達到小學畢業程度, 真是有如八年抗戰. 想再好點? 只有英文降低要求一途.

如果你的孩子資質不錯, 錢不是問題, 也有足夠的時間同精力幫助孩子, 可以考慮讓孩子讀中文小學, 到小學畢業時再轉讀國際學校.  太早轉, 孩子讀不好中文; 太晚轉, 英文一定受影響.

胡說八道, 見笑了.

[ 本文章最後由阿胡於 08-5-20 12:15 編輯 ]

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-20 12:06

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作者: christf 時間: 08-5-20 12:14

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作者: hysterical 時間: 08-5-20 12:18

Very wise words indeed, christf and 阿胡!

I think those criteria mentioned above certainly are major influential factors in choosing whichever curriculum or path for our children. Furthermore, our backgrounds and other experiences also play an important role in deciding which way we would like to go.

Each system has its merits, and to say that something sucks really show ones' ignorance and lack of insight.

For the sake of argument, let's say a child wants to specialise in music or sports. what's his best option?

I think it depends on how talented he is. if he is like a child prodigy, winning international competitions and drafted by the NFL/NBA, then maybe he can just be homeschooled and jumpstart his career early.

If he is just talented, then I would say a general education is still very important. Whether he's in the US, GCSE or IB, he is still required to take the basic courses in order to earn a secondary diploma. Then, he can apply to the uni of his choice. But everyone knows that even a jock needs to pass his prerequisite courses with at least a C. Even if he is the quarterback at Stanford, if he's failing his English class, he cannot play in the game.

作者: iamfine 時間: 08-5-20 12:27

Bye. No fun here. I cannot stand boring unimaginative people who can only read literally. ( I am not referring to 阿胡)

作者: christf 時間: 08-5-20 12:39

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作者: mattsmum 時間: 08-5-20 13:49 標題: 回覆 #6 阿胡的文章

thank you, 阿胡,

I agree with what you say, useful information, but how can a local school student be accepted by IS after 5 or 6 years in local school?

作者: 阿胡 時間: 08-5-20 14:27

原文章由 mattsmum 於 08-5-20 13:49 發表
thank you, 阿胡,

I agree with what you say, useful information, but how can a local school student be accepted by IS after 5 or 6 years in local school?

有幾種方式可以試一下, 但無一種可以保證成功: 包括

(1) CIS Year 7 會多開一班而對外招生;

(2) 先讀較容易進入的國際學校, 以後再轉學. HKIS和CIS都有不少學生會去美國讀4年boarding schools再讀大學, 到時會有不少位置空出來.

因為機會真是很小, 我都不敢再試. 所以一早就將小兒轉到ESF學校.

但結果, 就要幫他補中文. 頭痛之至, 還不一定有用.

作者: NLai 時間: 08-5-20 14:38 標題: 回覆 #1 阿胡的文章

Any one have idea where we can get the past paper of IB exam?

作者: mattsmum 時間: 08-5-20 18:32 標題: 回覆 #1 NLai 的文章

I had read for half an hour in VSA last sat. they got samples.

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-20 22:27

I agreed with your thinking and there should be most choice for broading school overseas. Do you think it is better at year 7 or year 9 ?

原文章由阿胡於 08-5-20 14:27 發表

有幾種方式可以試一下, 但無一種可以保證成功: 包括

(1) CIS Year 7 會多開一班而對外招生;

(2) 先讀較容易進入的國際學校, 以後再轉學. HKIS和CIS都有不少學生會去美國讀4年boarding schools再讀大學, 到時會有 ...

作者: 阿胡 時間: 08-5-21 02:09

原文章由 matthewdad 於 08-5-20 22:27 發表
I agreed with your thinking and there should be most choice for broading school overseas. Do you think it is better at year 7 or year 9 ?

美國學校是grade K-12, 英國學校是year 1-13. 美國好的boarding schools通常是高中4年, 即是大學之前的最後4年.

如果有錢, 如果可以進入美國top boarding schools之一, 基本上讀美國最好的大學是不成問題的. 但這些學校比YC還貴. 以Andover為例, 今年學費是US$37,000. 同讀大學差不多了.

儘管這些學校很好, 但孩子在14歲就離家, 會不會對父母的感情會淡薄, 也是中國人常常擔心的. 看到自己的孩子一天天長大, 不也是人生的一大寶貴經歷嗎?

另外, 如果孩子有能力進入美國top boarding schools之一, 我相信在香港的頭幾間國際學校畢業, 也應該是可以進入美國最好的大學的. 但如果從香港所謂名校畢業, 就很難說. 除非孩子真是數一數二的材料.

[ 本文章最後由阿胡於 08-5-21 02:11 編輯 ]

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-21 10:54

阿胡

Any comment on my plan
1. Kinder (N, K1, K2) at true international kinder (eg ESF)
2. K3 - local Kinder, P1-F2 Local top tier school
3. Year 9 or 10 (top-tier local IS or broading school in UK)
4. Undergradte in England top tier Uni
5. Postgraduate in US top tier Uni

原文章由阿胡於 08-5-21 02:09 發表

美國學校是grade K-12, 英國學校是year 1-13. 美國好的boarding schools通常是高中4年, 即是大學之前的最後4年.

如果有錢, 如果可以進入美國top boarding schools之一, 基本上讀美國最好的大學是不成問題的. 但 ...

[ 本文章最後由 matthewdad 於 08-5-21 12:04 編輯 ]

作者: 阿胡 時間: 08-5-21 11:55

原文章由 matthewdad 於 08-5-21 10:54 發表
阿胡

Any comment on my plan
1. Kinder (N, K1, K2) at true international kinder (eg ESF)
2. K3 - local Kinder, P1-F2 Local top tier school
3. Year 9 or 10 (top-tier local IS or broading school in UK)
4. Undergradte in England top tier Uni
5. Postgraduate in US top tier Uni
...

哈哈, 都不錯.

純粹個人看法:

Year 9 or 10 才轉英文第一語言, 可能會晚了一,兩年, 有可能對孩子語言發展有影響. 孩子個個不同, 但14歲左右轉語言(其實不光是語言的問題, 更多的是學習方法完全不同了), 對大部分孩子來說, 壓力都是很大的. 而且語言上的一些微妙的差異, 不是用一句英文很好, 或英文不好就可以講得清楚. 好處是, 孩子的中文他一輩子都忘不了. 但壞處是, 他的英文總是"差小小". 但有一點是肯定的, 他的英文會比絕大多數香港人好. 哈哈.

我對英國的boarding schools不了解. 我覺得去一間普通學校, 不一定會比ESF好. 當然, top boarding schools又不同.

如果孩子資質高, 香港的最好幾間國際學校畢業後就一定可以去讀好的大學. 如果孩子資質平平, 去英國讀boarding school或香港讀國際學校, 至少英文會不錯, 進入一間英美普通大學是不難的. 但外國讀完boarding school後或在香港讀完國際學校後, 千萬不要讓他在香港讀大學, 因為他有很大機會會應付不了香港大學的功課, 特別是數學方面.

[ 本文章最後由阿胡於 08-5-21 12:09 編輯 ]

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-21 12:09

Hi

This is why I put the kid in 80% -100%english environment from Nusery, K1 and K2 to develop english as the 1st language. This will be a challenge to change to local K3.

HKU have some good course such as architect, medicine and Law.

原文章由阿胡於 08-5-21 11:55 發表

哈哈, 都不錯.

純粹個人看法:

Year 9 or 10 才轉英文第一語言, 可能會晚了一,兩年, 有可能對孩子語言發展有影響. 孩子個個不同, 但14歲左右轉語言(其實不光是語言的問題, 更多的是學習方法完全不同了), 對大部分 ...

[ 本文章最後由 matthewdad 於 08-5-21 13:48 編輯 ]

作者: WYmom 時間: 08-5-21 12:23

原文章由 matthewdad 於 08-5-21 10:54 發表
阿胡

Any comment on my plan
1. Kinder (N, K1, K2) at true international kinder (eg ESF)
2. K3 - local Kinder, P1-F2 Local top tier school
3. Year 9 or 10 (top-tier local IS or broading school in UK)
...

I have a friend's kid following similar path, now studying in a local top tier English primary school at P.6, now trying to switch to IS for secondary, but not successful. For the past primary years, the kid still has to attend after school tutor class for English (which is a norm in local elite schools). Chinese standard in local English primary is usually quite so-so.

Actually, the gap of English standard in top tier IS vs local school is quite large, it will be very difficult for the kids to catch up if they switch to IS after F2. So the ultimate result maybe just so-so in both English and Chinese, unless your kid is very very brilliant.

作者: 阿胡 時間: 08-5-21 12:39

原文章由 WYmom 於 08-5-21 12:23 發表

I have a friend's kid following similar path, now studying in a local top tier English primary school at P.6, now trying to switch to IS for secondary, but not successful. For the past primary year ...

一間國際學校都進不了? 連RC都不行?

作者: WYmom 時間: 08-5-21 12:54

原文章由阿胡於 08-5-21 12:39 發表

一間國際學校都進不了? 連RC都不行?

Similar to mathewdad, my friend targets at top tier branded IS... so has not applied RC. Now she decided to let the kid continue the battle to get a seat in local top tier secondary schools.

作者: mattsmum 時間: 08-5-21 12:55

on IB again:

for bilingual certificate, you need group 1 - chinese A1( = mother tongue with literature component) and group 2- english B ( = second language, no literature)/ or both as AI level.

top local school kids might be able to get this cert. without great difficulty.

when the other way round, it will be very different. how to develope english into mother tongue standard as Language group 1 ( I mean on every aspect, not just spoken standard) is very challenging if the kid only shifted to IS after F2. Yet how to keep his chinese in A1 level will be also difficult. so he might just have an IB cert. not bilingual cert.

作者: 阿胡 時間: 08-5-21 13:04

原文章由 WYmom 於 08-5-21 12:54 發表

Similar to mathewdad, my friend targets at top tier branded IS... so has not applied RC. Now she decided to let the kid continue the battle to get a seat in local top tier secondary schools.

哦, 如果先RC, 到Grade 9再試HKIS, 可能機會會大一點.

作者: WYmom 時間: 08-5-21 13:38

原文章由 mattsmum 於 08-5-21 12:55 發表
on IB again:

for bilingual certificate, you need group 1 - chinese A1( = mother tongue with literature component) and group 2- english B ( = second language, no literature)/ or both as AI level.

top ...

mattsmum,

Personally, I don't mind it is bilingual Diploma or just IBD, the IB result will be more important for applying U. At this stage, the training and English standard in IS is likely to help students getting better IBD results in all subjects (not just English / Chinese). Of course I believe SPCC and DBS must do their best to let their top students getting top results, yet they only allow part of their students to take IBD in future. I think the average students will still take local secondary diploma.

作者: matthewdad 時間: 08-5-21 13:46

This is new to me. Any article can tell more on this ?
It is nice if you have the statistic from IS school in hk on the percentage of kids who have got passed in either group 1 and /or group 2. (good for us to choice the IS)

原文章由 mattsmum 於 08-5-21 12:55 發表
on IB again:

for bilingual certificate, you need group 1 - chinese A1( = mother tongue with literature component) and group 2- english B ( = second language, no literature)/ or both as AI level.

top ...

[ 本文章最後由 matthewdad 於 08-5-21 13:50 編輯 ]

作者: mattsmum 時間: 08-5-21 13:57 標題: 回覆 #1 matthewdad 的文章

i learned this from VSA's open day, most of them will have group1- chinese A1, group 2- english B (HL or SL), I guess it is the opposite for IS, they would have group 1- english A1, groip 2- chinese or spanish or french,

作者: WYmom 時間: 08-5-21 13:59

原文章由 mattsmum 於 08-5-21 13:57 發表
i learned this from VSA's open day, most of them will have group1- chinese A1, group 2- english B (HL or SL), I guess it is the opposite for IS, they would have group 1- english A1, groip 2- chinese o ...

Yes, you are right.

作者: mattsmum 時間: 08-5-21 14:02 標題: 回覆 #3 WYmom 的文章

i was told by teacher that "language A1 with literature element" is very difficult, almost equivalent to A level literature subjects,

i was a science student in high school, i don't know how difficult literature is.

ps.
for bilingual cert, you can also have combination of english A1 + chinese A2, but A2 is not taught at VSA yet, DBS did show this in their survey sheet.

作者: WYmom 時間: 08-5-21 14:08

原文章由 mattsmum 於 08-5-21 14:02 發表
i was told by teacher that "language A1 with literature element" is very difficult, almost equivalent to A level literature subjects,

i was a science student in high school, i don't know how difficu ...

Yes, English lit is quite difficult (to me, also a science student like you). Kids in ESF study Eng lit starting from primary. Chinese lit appears to be easier for me as it's my mother tongue.

From what I see, the English requirement in other IB subjects is also high if you want to get high marks in IBD.

作者: awah112 時間: 08-5-21 14:30

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作者: christf 時間: 08-5-21 15:02

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作者: warrrren 時間: 08-5-21 15:05

原文章由 mattsmum 於 08-5-21 12:55 發表
on IB again:

for bilingual certificate, you need group 1 - chinese A1( = mother tongue with literature component) and group 2- english B ( = second language, no literature)/ or both as AI level.
...

This is correct. But things can get a little more complicated. There are other ways to get a billingual diploma. For an example, doing language A English and writing an EE (extended essay) in Fench for a group 3 or group 4 subject. See the the Vade Mecum of 2007, http://www.nonsensed.com/IB/Vade%20Mecum.pdf; see also http://school.vis.ac.at/esl/files/a/4%20Bilingualism%20in%20IB%20programmes%20final.doc.

For IB students in Hong Kong, a good command of English is almost a must. Not only will they do English as a group 1 language subject, the majority of them will also do EE in English. And, don't forget music investigation/theatre project/research comission papers for group 6 electives, which are likely to be written in English.

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