教育王國

標題: 請問有無小朋友有語言障礙之後轉左去讀國際班有好大進步? [打印本頁]
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-3-22 17:00     標題: 請問有無小朋友有語言障礙之後轉左去讀國際班有好大進步?

My son is now 3.5 years old, he can speak a bit English and Cantonese, but he prefers English.  He is very enthusiastic in the English class, but not the Cantonese one.  But he seems has no problem of autism as he can play with his sister, maids and adults very good.  And his teacher in kindergarten said he has no problem in learning, just language developement delay.

He loves to read alphebets and English books, sing English songs and he can spell over 20 English words, like dog, cat, apple, moon and write them on papers correctly. Just than most of the time, he will "ee ee ar ar" not know how to express himself.... he copied the English sentences from his favourite online games, and always says "you did it", "good job", "very good", "try again".... for other English sentences, we cannot understand the real meanings.

His kindergarten is a very good local school but he cannot understand Chinese to learn the general knowledges taught by the teachers, that is why he has low marks in this subject test papers.

His father does not want him to go to International School because his sister is good at local school and he thinks Chinese is important to our kids.

I will quit my job soon to help him, just have not made up the mind whether:-

1.  to keep him at local kindergarten and teach him in Cantonese, I predict there will be many difficulties and slow improvement
OR
2. to change to International School, and not sure if he will improve his ability in expressing himself and we will loss the seat in his current kindergarten

Feeling very upset now..... and what to do?

Lycheema
作者: Stockinette    時間: 08-3-25 13:16

Hi Lycheema,

I was in similar situation as yourself couple years back.  My son was comparatively better in English than Chinese at the age of 3 year old, just comparatively because he was able to understand and spoke some english but chinese was mostly echolia.  We got so worried and wanted to switched him from local kinder to ESF TY, we rejected ESF TY after we spoke with his local kinder principal for we felt the school care so much about him.  At 3.2 year old we took him for an assessment, he was assessed to be 1.5 year behind in speech,  autistic features and borderline developement delay.

We immediately switch to single language environment, focusing on his cantonese, though we knew his english was better but due to lack of environment support (our friends/neighbors, playgroups were cantonese speakers) we decided to abondan english.  It was the right move for us as together with 1) caring and extra help for his kinder teachers/principal 2) EETC training 3) family support   he improve drastically.  At age 4.8 months old we took him for a formal IQ and Autism test, he score fairly high on Standford Binet assessment and for was diagnose to have no autism.

At age of 5.2 year old, he almost caught with his peer group in terms of language development and he loves reading both chinese and english, he can read and understand most of the chinese characters, but english is very so so.  His english listening is okay but reading is still oxford stage 1/2, but i am happy because he enjoy reading both english and chinese books.  We originally also planned to put him in international school (coz we feel local stream enforce too much dictation and homework), but we changed our mind because we like him to know more chinese.  We chose an interactive local stream primary school for him.

Perhaps you can take him for an speech assesment to understand how much he's delay and also consider switching to single language environement whether it be english or chinese.

Last but not least, I must praise you for your decision of quitting your job to spend more time with him, it will make a world of difference!  A mother's time is way more effective than flash cards, english dvds and computer games.  This is from my own experience after switching part-time!
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-3-26 14:01     標題: 回覆 #1 Stockinette 的文章

Dear Stockinette

Thank you so much for your sharing of experience here.  I felt so helpless these days as we look at my son behaved just like a baby.  

At the beginning of this month, we have taken him to a speech assessment and the result told us he is 1.5 years behind in Cantonese.  They did not do the English assessment as they expressed my son is in an environment of Cantonese speaking.

In his N1 school, the teachers told me my son likes to teach in English and attend the English classes.  I told myself that he wld turn good in Cantonese when he started his school life in a famous local kindergarten, and we changed to one-language environment for 9 months, but the effect is minimal.

Last week, we talked to him in all English and I can see he was very happy and talked more and communicate with us more.
I was delighted, but yet to decide what to do.

I will forward your posting to my husband and talk to him again.  And thank you for supporting me as a full-time housewife.  I hope he will communicate better when I try my best to help him....



Lycheema
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 08-3-26 16:44

一般有言語障礙小朋友是不適合在同一時間去處理兩種不同的language,而且一般言語治療是train廣東話的.

只要他先能掌握好一種言語先,另一種也隨之可以.

好似小兒(他是弱聽)連廣東話都未是十分好,但一學普通話卻是很好.

不用太擔心.

原文章由 lycheema 於 08-3-26 14:01 發表
Dear Stockinette

Thank you so much for your sharing of experience here.  I felt so helpless these days as we look at my son behaved just like a baby.  

At the beginning of this month, we have taken  ...
作者: Stockinette    時間: 08-3-26 19:51

Absolutely agree with 大鴨媽's comments.

Did you take him to assessment in CAC?  CAC is the best place to go, not for the professionalism but the followup training that they provide.  

I can understand fully it'd be a hard decision for you whichever language you go for.   If I am not mistaken your boy at age 3.5 is a young boy (i.e. born Oct 2004)?  If so I like to share my experience with you as I have a small boy too (born in end of Dec. 2002).

1) Be extra cautious when you pick international school for him, different schools have different cutoff date, for example ESF all children born in the same calendar year go to the same grade, whilst ICS their cutoff date is Aug, those who born after Aug must go start school a year later.  It is best to have you child as big boy rather than young boy.  

If you choose to stick with local kinder, you have a choice to repeat K1.  My son's principal suggested he repeat N2 but we turned down the offer, if we could go back in time we would likely take her suggestions, being big boy has more  pros than cons e.g. i) closer match of speech ability with younger peers might help to boost his confidence to speak out more ii) not have to burden by homework so soon you can spend more time to play and train him iii) if you line up for government service, you get an extra year as usually government cut service once the kid start primary school (again another reason we not consider international school as kid start primary school as early as 4.9 year old).  We did not follow the principal's suggestions to repeat, though we managed but I can tell you it was extremely challenging and my hair turned gray.

2) English ST is limited, whether it be private or government.  If you choose this path make sure you secure the resources ahead of time.

Also might help to discuss with his teacher and principal, we were extremely lucky as our kinder teachers and principal never called us to complaint but rather always encourage, praise and extra help.




原文章由 大鴨媽 於 08-3-26 16:44 發表
一般有言語障礙小朋友是不適合在同一時間去處理兩種不同的language,而且一般言語治療是train廣東話的.

只要他先能掌握好一種言語先,另一種也隨之可以.

好似小兒(他是弱聽)連廣東話都未是十分好,但一學普通話卻是很 ...
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 08-3-27 10:23

多謝你的回應.很高興有人agree我的comment.i just have to
share my experience. yes, govt's service cut after your
kid to primary.  

仲有 i位or s位是好似till6歲,so repeat is not good.

so make sure you choose the right track for your kid.

yes i do agree at 幼稚園not have much homework, you
can spend more time to train your kid.

after primary, lesser time la as busy with homework and school work la

just like me now, don't have much time to do training
with son, so just by doing it during daily dialogue.

even, govt just give money to normal school for st training, but just like my son, he still not good at 語理,but the st said his 發音is okay, then stop treatment for him.

but in nursery is much better la

so enjoy days in nursery.

no need to be so worry, after you decide it , go right on the track la



原文章由 Stockinette 於 08-3-26 19:51 發表
Absolutely agree with 大鴨媽's comments.

Did you take him to assessment in CAC?  CAC is the best place to go, not for the professionalism but the followup training that they provide.  

I can underst ...
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-3-27 16:35

Really thank you for sharing!

Although we are still considering the change of kindergarten, my son has better communication with us these days after we talked to him in English…he said “snow white every day” to indicate he wants to see the story book of snow white every night in bed… it is a small thing, but I feel so delighted of his advancement.

I have a 5.5 years old daughter who is studying in K3, she managed to speak very good Cantonese now (though she was also late in talking too, she said only simple sentence in 3 years old). She knows her brother (3.5 years old) cannot understand Cantonese, so they communicated in simple English. Therefore, it is not easy to have a pure Cantonese language environment among us in the past few months.

I think I am responsible for my son’s weak Cantonese speaking, making confusion because of the employment of one Indonesian and one Philippines maids. They flashed English cards to him from 2 years old, let him see lots of English VCD, DVD and many English books --- but my husbands and I were too busy to have time to teach him Cantonese, even if we have time, we are busy in entertaining his elder sister.

After the private assessment, he was said to have 1.5 years (Cantonese) behind, but for English, he cannot say at his own age. I know his classmates did make funs on him….but even if he was unhappy, he was unable to tell us though…. I think I need to do something to help him, before it is too late. I will help him with all my time and heart after quitting my job.
Should try to be a responsible mother now and teach him to talk BY MYSELF……
mouth:" />

[ 本文章最後由 lycheema 於 08-3-27 16:36 編輯 ]
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 08-3-27 22:01

one thing more research already said not just playing the video for children to see will get them learn the language.  adults should accompany them and talk with them also.

one point is to change the kindergarden because classmate make laugh at him. this is the most important reason.  as a result it will affect your son's self image and confidence to talk with others.

take good care be a great full time mom is not an easy job either.

原文章由 lycheema 於 08-3-27 16:35 發表
Really thank you for sharing!

Although we are still considering the change of kindergarten, my son has better communication with us these days after we talked to him in English…he said “snow white  ...
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-3-29 01:26

Thanks.  Tendered my resignation today, but boss pursuaded me to stay or do half day at least for some months.  After discussed with my husband, I will leave the company I worked for almost 7.5 years anyway.  He really wanted me to have better and "intensive" care to my son.

$$$ is not everything, right? we lose money here, maybe will save some money on my son later, who knows....

[ 本文章最後由 lycheema 於 08-3-29 01:58 編輯 ]
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 08-3-29 16:49

good, nice to be a full time monther, but not an easy job either. share with us what is going on with your son.

原文章由 lycheema 於 08-3-29 01:26 發表
Thanks.  Tendered my resignation today, but boss pursuaded me to stay or do half day at least for some months.  After discussed with my husband, I will leave the company I worked for almost 7.5 years  ...
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-3-30 01:27

Sure...life is full of challenges.
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 08-3-30 21:11

yes, let us support each others in here la.  although our
child has different problem, but similar that is not good at language la


原文章由 lycheema 於 08-3-30 01:27 發表
Sure...life is full of challenges.
作者: EthanMama    時間: 08-4-25 22:26

lycheema
Stockinette
大鴨媽

I'm so glad to see your discussion here as I have similar dilemma...

I got 3 kids and my eldest one is 5.5 years old.
So I focused on him most and ended up ignoring my No. 2 one who is turning 3 soon.

I haven't taken him to any assessment yet but I suspect he's got mainly pronounciation problem.  (eg. cannot say "Gor Gor" but "Dor Dor", cannot say "S" but "TS"..)
He's now in N1 at a small but caring Kinder (YWCA).  His nursery teacher asked me to take him for assessment at Heep hong already.

However, he also got admitted to St Cat which people normally thinks may give better chance into "famous" primary school than YWCA.  More sarcastically, he got into English-Mandarin class.  I am worried that he'll be very confused with 3 languages. (currently I only speak to him in Cantonese)  Having learnt that most kids got problem with Cantonese can do well in English or Mandarin, should I switch him to St. Cat or let me stay in YWCA?
作者: ChattyST    時間: 08-4-26 09:44

Ethanmama,
如果小朋友只係發音問題, 而表達理解無遲緩.
咁多語環境對佢既影響唔係咁大.
所以你首先要帶小朋友去做語言同發音評估.
如果係語言遲緩, 咁你幫小朋友轉去ST.CATHERINE就唔係咁好啦
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 08-4-26 19:13

seems that you have to check and confirm your second son is speech delay first.

if yes, stick to one language, of course cantonese first.

well, after he can acquire cantonese. he then can pick up others well.

my son now is primary one. he can pick up mandarian okay wow.

although he is not in a famous kindergarten.

if you totally switch to another language in kindergarten, you may need totally change the whole envirobment like change to an international school at primary.

so my suggestion is stick to cantonese first.

get training for him first like speech therapy.



原文章由 EthanMama 於 08-4-25 22:26 發表
lycheema
Stockinette
大鴨媽

I'm so glad to see your discussion here as I have similar dilemma...

I got 3 kids and my eldest one is 5.5 years old.
So I focused on him most and ended up ignoring my  ...
作者: EthanMama    時間: 08-4-26 22:49

Thanks for your reply.
Just wondering where do you do the assessment, if I'm willing to go private, do I still need to wait?
Would you recommend Heep Hong or any other?
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 08-4-27 23:52

Heep Hong is okay or you can apply Hong Kong Christian Service心橋．

they are more systematic.

still need to wait la

otherwise try 香港言語及吞嚥治療中心(this is private)

原文章由 EthanMama 於 08-4-26 22:49 發表
Thanks for your reply.
Just wondering where do you do the assessment, if I'm willing to go private, do I still need to wait?
Would you recommend Heep Hong or any other?
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-5-3 13:08

My boy is at KV, the teachers are kind and caring to him.  However, I have arranged my son to study at Anfield, an international kindergarten in this Sept for K2. And starting from April we all talked to him in English, we found that he understands more and can speak short complete English sentence now.  For the past, we noticed he refused to learn and talk in Cantonese.

My son will have a government examination next Friday and I will finish my full time job next week. Hope with my company, he will improve very soon. Hope your kid will be fine too!

Lycheema

原文章由 EthanMama 於 08-4-25 22:26 發表
lycheema
Stockinette
大鴨媽

I'm so glad to see your discussion here as I have similar dilemma...

I got 3 kids and my eldest one is 5.5 years old.
So I focused on him most and ended up ignoring my  ...
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-5-18 11:27

My son has improved steadily in English speaking after I became a full time mother, that is encouraging! Especially when we took him for a 5 days trip to Thailand with his sister, he became a bit smarter, I think, and he is more willingly to talk.

Lycheema
作者: EthanMama    時間: 08-6-1 00:11

Congrats!

I have been talking more to my son too and he seems to be more conversant too.
I think we as parents also need to spend more time really talking to our kids to solve the fundamental problem, I just realized I've been treating him like a baby, just feeding and playing...
Anyway, how does your son like Anfield?
I have already declined St. Cat and I bet many people will think I am stupid to give up Eng-PTW class offer...(Sometimes I struggle whether the decision is right too)
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-6-12 19:31

Well, pressure will be on your son if he goes to SC, I think.  My son will start schooling at Anfield in Sept.  Looking back in the past 2 years, I have only less than one hour talking to my son during week days, because I had OT and late to home.  Today, I took him to McDonald for lunch and read him book in the afternoon.

I am regret that I have not quitted my job last year.

Lycheema

原文章由 EthanMama 於 08-6-1 00:11 發表
Congrats!

I have been talking more to my son too and he seems to be more conversant too.
I think we as parents also need to spend more time really talking to our kids to solve the fundamental problem ...
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-6-19 07:32     標題: 回覆 #1 lycheema 的文章

好開心, 我仔昨晚一口氣講"Father come", "Father Seven Eleven Strawberry ice-cream".

有進步!有進步!
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 08-6-19 12:59

good , so encouraging to hear this.  work hard, your son will gradually have improvment bit by bit.

那證明你的努力是沒有白費的

原文章由 lycheema 於 08-6-19 07:32 發表
好開心, 我仔昨晚一口氣講"Father come", "Father Seven Eleven Strawberry ice-cream".

有進步!有進步!
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-7-4 16:02     標題: 回覆 #1 大鴨媽 的文章

多謝你! 真是一日一日數手指咁, 慢慢教.....
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-7-13 00:43     標題: 回覆 #1 lycheema 的文章

昨天見了智能中心的醫生, 話我仔智力應是正常, 但有autistic features, 而且兩小時會面中同醫生玩得太熟(唉, 咁都係自閉徵狀???), no attachment to parents 喎....(其實佢日夜都attach著我嫁!)

不過醫生話唔反對我轉亞仔讀國際幼稚園,因為亞仔嘅興趣在英文, 讀中文反而會拖慢亞仔嘅進展....好了, 現在可能要亞仔辛苦d, 讀兩間幼稚園睇睇點.....

[ 本文章最後由 lycheema 於 08-7-17 21:40 編輯 ]
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 08-7-13 18:17

為什麼要讀兩間幼稚園???

??autistic feature??醫生有什麼建議??

原文章由 lycheema 於 08-7-13 00:43 發表
昨天見了智能中心的醫生, 話我仔智力應是正常, 但有autistic features, 而且兩小時會面中同醫生玩得太熟(唉, 咁都係自閉???), no attachment to parents 喎....(其實佢日夜都attach著我嫁!)

不過醫生話唔反對我轉亞 ...
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-7-17 21:39

是較輕微自閉徵狀或叫自閉傾向, 但其實亞仔是很不怕陌生人, 而且過於不怕, 過於熱情,醫生話都是自閉徵狀.  亞仔是較為固執(例如一定要說英文)和有語言發展遲緩...所以智力中心醫生話基於此等徵狀, 相信亞仔是有autistic (tendency) features. 不過相信他智力正常. 建議排期watchdog,但社工話可能2010年才情排到.不過已經排緊隊.

我本讓他讀國際幼稚園K2, 但K1班主任好惜亞仔,於是建議他讀兩間幼稚園k2看看如何?反正有些博入名校小一的小朋友家長都是探取這種做法, 我見亞仔英文進步唔錯, 希望一試.... 真是六神無主,急病亂求醫.....

P.S. My sister in law who is children health centre nurse told me that she also had autistic features in her childhood, so I think it is heritable issue.  She told me not be too worried, she thinks my son will be fine at last.


原文章由 大鴨媽 於 08-7-13 18:17 發表
為什麼要讀兩間幼稚園???

??autistic feature??醫生有什麼建議??

[ 本文章最後由 lycheema 於 08-7-18 08:58 編輯 ]
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 08-7-19 12:17

watchdog也要排???
不是private的嗎???

明白
希望你有好的決定啦


原文章由 lycheema 於 08-7-17 21:39 發表
是較輕微自閉徵狀或叫自閉傾向, 但其實亞仔是很不怕陌生人, 而且過於不怕, 過於熱情,醫生話都是自閉徵狀.  亞仔是較為固執(例如一定要說英文)和有語言發展遲緩...所以智力中心醫生話基於此等徵狀, 相信亞仔是有autis ...
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-7-21 09:19

可經政府排watchdog, 很平, 不過唔知等到何時?

自己私人又已登記排watchdog,很貴,不過都係要排, 又唔知等到何時?

協康會私人又要排, 大概3個月....
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 08-7-21 10:34

有朋友說在油麻地楊震也有private的,要排,你不妨試下


原文章由 lycheema 於 08-7-21 09:19 發表
可經政府排watchdog, 很平, 不過唔知等到何時?

自己私人又已登記排watchdog,很貴,不過都係要排, 又唔知等到何時?

協康會私人又要排, 大概3個月....
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-7-22 09:24

Thank you, will get more information.

Lycheema

原文章由 大鴨媽 於 08-7-21 10:34 發表
有朋友說在油麻地楊震也有private的,要排,你不妨試下
作者: baby951104    時間: 08-8-24 18:57

請問點知個小朋友係咪語言混亂呢？請指教！
原帖由 lycheema 於 08-3-22 17:00 發表
My son is now 3.5 years old, he can speak a bit English and Cantonese, but he prefers English.  He is very enthusiastic in the English class, but not the Cantonese one.  But he seems has no problem of ...
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-9-4 00:56

你問語言混亂, 請看下面資料:-

中 英 文 夾 雜 下 幼 兒 易 語 言 障 礙

【 本 報 訊 】 香 港 是 國 際 大 都 會 ， 精 通 兩 文 三 語 將 有 助 學 業 及 工 作 等 發 展 。 不 少 家 長 為 求 提 升 子 女 的 語 言 能 力 ， 過 早 為 子 女 營 造 雙 語 環 境 學 習 語 文 ， 如 刻 意 以 中 英 夾 雜 的 詞 句 對 話 及 聘 請 外 傭 等 。 有 語 言 治 療 師 警 告 ， 本 港 約 有 十 一 萬 名 兒 童 患 有 語 言 障 礙 ， 混 亂 的 語 言 環 境 反 而 會 阻 慢 兒 童 的 正 常 語 言 發 展 ， 得 不 償 失 。
語 言 治 療 師 朱 嘉 麗 接 受 訪 問 時 表 示 ， 正 常 兒 童 在 一 歲 至 一 歲 半 期 間 ， 已 可 讀 出 中 文 單 字 ； 一 歲 半 至 兩 歲 更 可 道 出 由 兩 個 中 文 字 彙 組 成 的 詞 語 或 句 子 。 如 兒 童 的 語 言 發 展 階 段 較 為 緩 慢 ， 即 可 能 患 有 語 言 發 展 障 礙 或 溝 通 障 礙 。 她 指 出 ， 一 成 兒 童 有 語 言 障 礙 問 題 ， 以 本 港 有 一 百 一 十 萬 名 十 五 歲 以 下 兒 童 及 青 少 年 計 ， 估 計 本 港 約 有 十 一 萬 名 十 五 歲 以 下 人 士 患 有 不 同 程 度 的 語 言 障 礙 。
她 又 稱 ， 語 言 發 展 緩 慢 的 原 因 ， 除 包 括 患 有 自 閉 症 、 智 障 或 弱 聽 等 先 天 性 問 題 外 ， 也 有 不 少 是 受 到 混 亂 的 語 言 環 境 影 響 所 致 ， 「 十 個 語 言 發 展 慢 小 朋 友 ， 有 兩 、 三 個 係 受 到 語 言 環 境 影 響 。 」 她 解 釋 ， 一 至 三 歲 是 兒 童 學 習 語 言 的 起 步 階 段 ， 若 在 此 時 已 同 時 學 習 兩 種 不 同 語 言 ， 即 容 易 產 生 混 淆 ， 尤 其 是 家 中 有 外 傭 的 兒 童 ， 「 如 果 成 日 中 英 夾 雜 ， 例 如 『 kiss （ 吻 ） 媽 咪 啦 』 ， 會 令 佢 覺 得 好 難 分 辨 中 、 英 文 ； 而 如 果 成 日 講 英 文 ， 又 可 能 令 中 文 吸 收 慢 。 」

語 言 重 應 用
朱 嘉 麗 警 告 兒 童 語 言 發 展 能 力 緩 慢 ， 影 響 表 達 能 力 時 ， 或 進 一 步 對 日 常 學 習 、 社 交 及 心 理 造 成 負 面 影 響 。 所 以 她 建 議 家 長 切 勿 過 早 讓 兒 童 在 雙 語 環 境 下 學 習 語 文 ， 「 三 、 四 歲 先 上 班 ， 識 字 都 OK 。 但 如 果 兩 、 三 歲 時 見 佢 學 習 語 文 比 人 慢 ， 就 應 該 先 學 一 種 語 言 先 。 」 家 長 也 可 教 導 家 中 外 傭 講 廣 東 話 ， 如 一 些 比 較 常 用 的 詞 語 ， 如 「 飲 」 、 「 食 」 、 「 俾 」 及 「 衫 」 等 。
朱 嘉 麗 指 出 ， 家 長 過 早 讓 子 女 觀 看 學 習 語 文 的 動 畫 教 材 ， 也 不 一 定 可 以 提 升 子 女 的 外 語 能 力 ， 「 其 實 睇 VCD 或 者 DVD 去 學 語 言 唔 係 咁 適 合 ， 因 為 語 言 係 要 應 用 ， 但 係 呢 好 貴 VCD 或 者 DVD 面 語 言 ， 好 難 套 入 日 常 生 活 中 ， 未 必 可 以 學 以 致 用 。 」 她 建 議 家 長 在 兒 童 兩 至 三 歲 才 開 始 讓 他 們 觀 看 這 些 教 材 ， 並 陪 伴 在 旁 作 出 指 引 ， 才 能 達 致 最 佳 效 果 。

語言障礙是另一個大topic.

[ 本帖最後由 lycheema 於 08-9-5 09:39 編輯 ]
作者: korg    時間: 08-10-2 03:41

lycheema:

剛睇到你的post. 我都有相同煩惱!! 呀仔只說英文, 抗拒中文.

囝囝而家2.5歲, 做了評估, 有自閉症. 好細個時識講apple, mama. 其他咩都唔講, 因為當時唔知佢austic, 所以中英都有教.

2歲時肯講abcdefg, 同one two three - ten. 於是不停教佢英文. 做評估時, 咩都唔肯講. . 2歲2個月時, (4個月前)又突然識讀晒a-z, 1-20, 同咪教過的英文字都好快識, 仲好好記性. 而家識讀3,4佰個字了. 不過都係識reading, 唔係communication. 一見中文字就走...

我教咗d字, 同佢去supermarket, 指住實物, 佢識講. 見到bird, dog都識講.

我都有諗比佢讀international school, 而另一原因係我地可能會去美國生活(但又唔係100%), 所以我想呀囝先識英文, 第日再教中文. 起碼而家佢肯講, 我好驚轉晒英文, 佢會唔講嘢.
真係好煩好煩!!!

我都會報anfield & esf. 希望佢讀得開心. 不過, 真係好頭痛!!
作者: jojoplanet    時間: 08-10-4 19:53

睇到你個POST好驚, 我個仔都係咁架, 乜唔係唔啋人先係自閉架咩, 我個仔而家22個月, 講野都係慢, 係4個月前SPEECH THERPIAST叫我全中，因為之前我係中英咁教佢，佢係明架喎。。但佢話佢會ＣＯＮＦＵＳＥ唔知講中定英好。。咁我全中之後好似係好Ｄ。。咁約佢２１個月時我教佢中文１－９咁佢只能發音１，２，５，８，其他係唔出聲。。但上星期我比ＶＣＤ佢睇係英文既１－１０但佢全部跟住讀，當然發音唔正。。

而家佢主動會講既字係，好味，抱抱，ＤＡＤＤＹ，ＭＡＭＩ，爸爸，媽媽。。其餘既有Ｄ你叫佢佢先會跟住講。。

咁會唔會係Austim ga..
原帖由 lycheema 於 08-7-17 21:39 發表
是較輕微自閉徵狀或叫自閉傾向, 但其實亞仔是很不怕陌生人, 而且過於不怕, 過於熱情,醫生話都是自閉徵狀.  亞仔是較為固執(例如一定要說英文)和有語言發展遲緩...所以智力中心醫生話基於此等徵狀, 相信亞仔是有autis ...
作者: gardenwoods    時間: 08-10-6 00:21

lycheema, please check pm. Thanks.
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-10-9 11:47     標題: 回覆 # 的文章

Ronni

Not sure if my reply thro' BK has reached you, so pls see below:

"Hi, sorry for late reply.  I am busy with my elder daughter these days....

我由健康院refer到中九龍兒童智能中心做評估, 話有稍少austic features, 而今日要去做speech assessment(我話咗要做英文的),唔知結果會點....私人言語治療方面,找香港耳鼻喉科中心(tel no. 2523 7373(Kln) 2523 7998(HK) )做過中, 英文speech assessment, 兩樣都係delay,但英文程度他delay少D...."
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-10-10 18:52     標題: 回覆 gardenwoods 的文章

Dr. Peter Kam Fai YIP 葉錦輝,小兒外科醫生

旺角Nathan Road 655號大廈1105室(地鐵E1出口)
Tel no. 23916916

Dr. Yip was in 東區醫院 for many years.

Lycheema

[ 本帖最後由 lycheema 於 08-10-10 18:53 編輯 ]
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-10-10 19:06

其實我暫未能相信亞仔是有自閉徵狀...我相信佢只是舌繫帶短影響說話能力及自1歲9個月起天天閃英文字咭,閃足兩年,令佢不接受說廣東話, 而一定要用英文溝通,但我卻給了他一年英文真空期,令佢無所適從.....而家佢無讀local school,只是返國際學校, 他已有所進步, 希望2年內可以追番上嚟....

現在香港地小朋友真的多了語言混淆的情況....

原帖由 jojoplanet 於 08-10-4 19:53 發表
睇到你個POST好驚, 我個仔都係咁架, 乜唔係唔啋人先係自閉架咩, 我個仔而家22個月, 講野都係慢, 係4個月前SPEECH THERPIAST叫我全中，因為之前我係中英咁教佢，佢係明架喎。。但佢話佢會ＣＯＮＦＵＳＥ唔知講中定英好。。咁我全中之後 ...
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-10-10 19:30

Hi, Korg

你有無懷疑囝囝是資優的, 但資優到固執地只使用他喜歡說和有較高能力使用的英文呢?

為何我會這樣說, 因為我個大女最近做了IQ test,是資優,但為人固執....

我同工人明明覺得亞仔除了說話和理解比家姐差之外,其實其他比家姐聰明和古惑(很早識讀英文字,未教已識寫字,dictation,好記憶力,一眼關七),只是牛精和不懂說話,理解力差....但更固執....統計學上計他有47%會和家姐一樣智商,一般人口只有少於2%....如果這樣想,可能比較亞Q,不過比較安心....超碼晚上都可以入睡....希望佢真的不是自閉, 只是固執一點.....(不過,過於固執都是自閉徵狀,好矛盾呀,是不是???)

迷團一日未解開,一日都不得安寧.......

原帖由 korg 於 08-10-2 03:41 發表
lycheema:

剛睇到你的post. 我都有相同煩惱!! 呀仔只說英文, 抗拒中文.

囝囝而家2.5歲, 做了評估, 有自閉症. 好細個時識講apple, mama. 其他咩都唔講, 因為當時唔知佢austic, 所以中英都有教.

2歲時肯講abcdefg ...

[ 本帖最後由 lycheema 於 08-10-11 00:01 編輯 ]
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-10-11 08:18

hi, jojoplanet,

協康會的資料http://childrehab.heephong.org/develop/develop.htm

(總之說話發展遲緩,而又中了下面少部份特徵都話係有自閉徵狀,政府心理醫生要告訴你,怕你掉以輕心喎!)



自閉症 (Autism)
特徵：自閉症是由腦部異常發展而形成的一種發展障礙，它與其他兒童發展遲緩問題的最大分別是語言、溝通、社交及行為方面的異常。自閉症兒童不單語言發展遲緩，而在情感表達及非語言表達的理解方面也有顯著的困難，嚴重影響與別人進行交往的能力。自閉症的主要徵狀包括下列三方面：


人際關係上的障礙
a)
缺乏使用基本身體語言，例如：(眼神的接觸交流、面部表情及社交手勢等) 的能力；
b) 不能發展與同齡兒童應有的同伴關係；
c) 缺乏主動與別人分享感受的動機及能力；
d) 缺乏参與社交活動的動機，較喜愛獨個兒玩耍；
e) 未能察覺別人的存在、需要及感受；

溝通障礙(包括語言及非語言溝通)
a)
語言發展遲緩或完全缺乏理解和表達的能力；
b) 與同齡之兒童比較，部分會使用語言的兒童，未能如人持續對話；
c) 刻板地重複一些言語或說話的內容(如鵡鵡式對話、混淆使用代名詞等)，但句子結構的運用較異常。
d) 無法參與假想或社交模仿的遊戲；
e) 在理解能力方面，自閉症兒童較難明白問題、複雜指示或誤解笑話和含有諷刺的說話；

對事物的興趣和處理方法明顯地表現出狹隘及固執
a)
興趣較偏狹，對有興趣物件的注意力的程度異常；
b) 堅持使用特定的程序或模式做事，拒絕接受改變；
c) 喜愛刻板而重複地做出某些動作，(如前後擺動身體、搖晃頭部、室內繞圈等)；
d) 持續專注於物件的某些部份；

除了上述的診斷特徵外，自閉症兒童亦可能具有以下其中一些相關的特徵
(即並非自閉症特徵，而是與自閉症同時出現的情况) ：

成因：自閉症的成因至今仍未能完全確定，但據近年臨床的研究指出，基本上病因是由生理因素產生，並強調與遺傳基因有莫大的關係。而患有自閉症的兒童通常在三歲或以前出現上述的徵兆，但有部份兒童會在初生十個月至一兩年間有正常的發展。

處理：自 閉 症 暫 時 未 有 根 治 的 方 法 ， 然 而 ， 透 過 教 育 及 訓 練 的 方 法 可 幫 助 兒 童 克 服 因 自 閉 症 帶 來 的 障 礙 及 困 難 ， 適 應 生 活 及 學 習 上 的 要 求 。現時有多個訓練自閉症兒童的系统，其中較普遍的有結構化教學法(TEACCH) 、應用行為分析(Applied Behavioural Analysis) 等等，詳見下列網址：http://www.swap.org.hk/html/Treatment.htm

原帖由 jojoplanet 於 08-10-4 19:53 發表
睇到你個POST好驚, 我個仔都係咁架, 乜唔係唔啋人先係自閉架咩, 我個仔而家22個月, 講野都係慢, 係4個月前SPEECH THERPIAST叫我全中，因為之前我係中英咁教佢，佢係明架喎。。但佢話佢會ＣＯＮＦＵＳＥ唔知講中定英好。。咁我全中之後 ...

[ 本帖最後由 lycheema 於 08-10-11 08:20 編輯 ]
作者: gardenwoods    時間: 08-10-11 23:15

Thanks for your information.

我暫時仲未諗去睇....因為跟你通電後，即刻測試亞囝....佢條脷又好靈活咁喎....好快好容易(我眼睇)就跟我做到伸脷到不同方向...暫時會睇定d先，因為亞囝正式開口說話只有三兩個月時間....葉醫生資料我會保存以防萬一！

Btw, 我剛幫亞囝報了Anfield星期六既 Activity Chest班，希望佢可以早一點適應學校....

原帖由 lycheema 於 08-10-10 18:52 發表
Dr. Peter Kam Fai YIP 葉錦輝,小兒外科醫生

旺角Nathan Road 655號大廈1105室(地鐵E1出口)
Tel no. 23916916

Dr. Yip was in 東區醫院 for many years.

Lycheema
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-10-13 11:54

Nice to hear that, maybe see you later in Anfield.  Good luck!

Lycheema



原帖由 gardenwoods 於 08-10-11 23:15 發表
Thanks for your information.

我暫時仲未諗去睇....因為跟你通電後，即刻測試亞囝....佢條脷又好靈活咁喎....好快好容易(我眼睇)就跟我做到伸脷到不同方向...暫時會睇定d先，因為亞囝正式開口說話只有三兩個月時間.... ...
作者: jojoplanet    時間: 08-10-13 14:03

阿仔除左講野遲緩, 其他都無乜, 但係固執就係, 好似琴日咁佢要睇奬門人但係未做, 佢就係度LOST BIG TEMPER.
我幫BB報咗協康一個COURSE, 希望有所改善..

我多數都係活動教學, 因為我覺得咁佢有興趣D...有時係街見到D野就中英..琴日無意中比D FLASH CARD問佢, 佢又仲咗2X個..但係好多都唔正(廣東話), APPLE 同BIRD 就最清楚.

原帖由 lycheema 於 08-10-11 08:18 發表
hi, jojoplanet,

協康會的資料http://childrehab.heephong.org/develop/develop.htm

(總之說話發展,而又中了下面少部份特徵都話係有自閉徵狀,政府心理醫生要告訴你,怕你掉以輕心喎!)



自閉症 (Autism) 特徵： ...

[ 本帖最後由 jojoplanet 於 08-10-13 14:05 編輯 ]
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-10-16 11:39

我昨天去探一位伯母(已移民老同學的媽媽),談及亞仔是舌繫帶短小,她竟告訴我他現年30多歲的大兒子(一大女,兩子)出生不久已剪舌繫帶,我認識他已近20多年,都不知道這事.

但現在回想起來,亞世伯同同學這位弟弟又真係講嘢好慢,一字一字不馬虎,又大聲,十足似我老爺咁.....都係舌繫帶短的例子.....

我同學這位弟弟自小很安靜,不喜歡說話,向來給人自閉的感覺,而且說話很"硬",不自然,可能剪完舌繫帶又生番埋都有可能(所以醫生會要求剪完縫針).

其實舌繫帶在人身上已進化到沒有作用,但一短小,就可能後患無窮.....太可惡了!朋友中還有很多例子, 有空再分享.....

原帖由 jojoplanet 於 08-10-13 14:03 發表
阿仔除左講野遲緩, 其他都無乜, 但係固執就係, 好似琴日咁佢要睇奬門人但係未做, 佢就係度LOST BIG TEMPER.
我幫BB報咗協康一個COURSE, 希望有所改善..

我多數都係活動教學, 因為我覺得咁佢有興趣D...有時係街見到D ...
作者: jojoplanet    時間: 08-10-16 15:04

原帖由 lycheema 於 08-10-16 11:39 發表
我昨天去探一位伯母(已移民老同學的媽媽),談及亞仔是舌繫帶短小,她竟告訴我他現年30多歲的大兒子(一大女,兩子)出生不久已剪舌繫帶,我認識他已近20多年,都不知道這事.

但現在回想起來,亞世伯同同學這位弟弟又真係講 ...


請問點先知道有沒有這個問題架?我個仔條舌伸得好長架..我個仔d發音係我先聽得明架, 都唔知係唔係有問題..
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-10-17 11:10

最明顯是他盡量打平伸出舌頭時, 舌頭尖端有沒有成"W"形狀呢?一般正常人是做不到的...

另外,可以叫他將舌尖伸向上觸及上顎中間部份, 看他的舌繫帶是否粗,白,短小......其實伸展不靈活的舌頭會影響發音的....又有無發覺他舌頭比較大(台灣叫大舌頭)和鈍呢? 可將朱古力醬放於兩旁口角和上唇頂,叫他用舌頭"tim",是否很難做到...口肌是否比較無力???

一般來說, 舌頭伸得比較長和活動靈活的人,不似是舌繫帶短小.....

Lycheema

原帖由 jojoplanet 於 08-10-16 15:04 發表


請問點先知道有沒有這個問題架?我個仔條舌伸得好長架..我個仔d發音係我先聽得明架, 都唔知係唔係有問題..
作者: gardenwoods    時間: 08-10-18 22:55

Hi Lycheema,

Anfield confirmed the Sat playgroup for my son la...the Home teacher is Daisy....do u know her?? Any comments?? Please share if u know any. Thanks.

原帖由 lycheema 於 08-10-13 11:54 發表
Nice to hear that, maybe see you later in Anfield.  Good luck!

Lycheema
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-10-24 08:44

My son's teachers are Ms. Puja and Ms. Fiona (she is a ABC or CBC I think).  Both of them are very kind......I do not know about Daisy....

原帖由 gardenwoods 於 08-10-18 22:55 發表
Hi Lycheema,

Anfield confirmed the Sat playgroup for my son la...the Home teacher is Daisy....do u know her?? Any comments?? Please share if u know any. Thanks.
作者: gardenwoods    時間: 08-10-24 18:34

No problem la...will go and check it out on Nov 1. Thanks.

原帖由 lycheema 於 08-10-24 08:44 發表
My son's teachers are Ms. Puja and Ms. Fiona (she is a ABC or CBC I think).  Both of them are very kind......I do not know about Daisy....
作者: gardenwoods    時間: 08-10-29 22:42

Elsa told me this morning that the Home Teacher for my son's playgroup should be Robert instead of Daisy...

原帖由 lycheema 於 08-10-24 08:44 發表
My son's teachers are Ms. Puja and Ms. Fiona (she is a ABC or CBC I think).  Both of them are very kind......I do not know about Daisy....
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-11-14 11:09

Hope Mr. Robert is a good teacher too.  My son really enjoys the school life in Anfield.....of course, I have to let him write Chinese words at home....

He can speak much better now!
作者: lycheema    時間: 08-12-16 12:30     標題: 回覆 # 的文章

我上次去相熟的兒童衣服店買衫, 講開亞仔, 個sales話佢有個客個女成7歲先剪舌繫帶, 剪咗之後要成7個月說話先無問題, 而家講話好正常呀! 我聽後都好鼓舞...希望亞仔快d進步...

佢8月底仲講緊s-Now, white and seven Da-war-f, 而家"醒"咗好多, 講seven dwarf喇!條舌頭靈活好多喇.....

最近佢停牛奶停糖....真是乖了很多...
作者: lycheema    時間: 09-2-6 11:01

Anfield的Ms. Puja昨天好高興地告訴我,亞仔最近講好多說話... 太令人鼓舞了!

而且近日我亦發覺原來佢幾明白我講的廣東話,可以用幾個字的廣東話回答,所以我已增加同佢講廣東話的機會,雖然唔鹹唔淡,不過希望有幫助,要努力去做.....
作者: gardenwoods    時間: 09-2-8 13:48

真鄧你開心！見到你地可以對症下藥，真羨慕呢！

我囝最近都講多左好多野....不過又中又英咁....而且發音唔正....佢最後都無去 Anfield 度讀...因為唔想再 travel...返左屋企樓下間 IS kinder 度讀....so far okay la....學校響二月換左班主任，叫 Susan...from Tornoto...我之前返 Anfield Sat PG 時見過佢.....
我依家搵左個鬼婆同囝囝惡補一下d英文...咁，我就可以主力教中文....因為生活響香港，碰口碰面既都係講 Cantonese，唔識唔得呢！

一齊加油吧！




原帖由 lycheema 於 09-2-6 11:01 發表
Anfield的Ms. Puja昨天好高興地告訴我,亞仔最近講好多說話... 太令人鼓舞了!

而且近日我亦發覺原來佢幾明白我講的廣東話,可以用幾個字的廣東話回答,所以我已增加同佢講廣東話的機會,雖然唔鹹唔淡,不過希望 ...
作者: Geni    時間: 09-2-16 10:04

我個細仔又係有好似大家所講o既問題, 我覺得佢應該係用英文諗o野, 上個星期學校家長日(佢依家講緊普通幼稚園k1), 我問過老師佢說話o既情況, 老師話佢明顯同同齡o既小朋友有落差, 提議我地帶佢去做評估. 我又有問過老師佢會唔會係唔夠字去溝通所以表達得唔好, 老師就話呢個年紀應該要夠字... 其實我地都打算同佢去做評估, 不過我想問應該做全面o既評估定只做語言發展呢? 佢由細到大都係去仁安睇醫生, 所以我想去番仁安做評估, 唔知好唔好呢?

仲有, 我又可以做d乜o野可以improve到個仔o既情況呢?
作者: gardenwoods    時間: 09-2-16 15:48

仁安做全面既有劉健真....要$7K左右...

不過如果你懷疑囝囝只有speech delay，沒有其他問題，可以淨係去見speech therapist...近近地威記私家症有....
http://www.ihcr.cuhk.edu.hk/relatedSites/ent/privateSpeech.htm

原帖由 Geni 於 09-2-16 10:04 發表
我個細仔又係有好似大家所講o既問題, 我覺得佢應該係用英文諗o野, 上個星期學校家長日(佢依家講緊普通幼稚園k1), 我問過老師佢說話o既情況, 老師話佢明顯同同齡o既小朋友有落差, 提議我地帶佢去做評估. 我又有問過老 ...
作者: BBIX    時間: 09-2-16 20:45

may i know how much of 威記
作者: gardenwoods    時間: 09-2-16 23:39

唔知呀...不過之前有朋友個朋友問過做訓練...好似$5xx左右...比一般出名果d平少少咁喇....

原帖由 BBIX 於 09-2-16 20:45 發表
may i know how much of 威記
作者: Geni    時間: 09-2-17 11:43

我就係唔係好肯定佢係唔係只有speech delay, 你話佢講o野唔清楚咩, 又唔係, 佢發音(特別係英文)好準... 佢流口水流到2歲, 但佢個咀同條脷又好靈活, 上下左右反轉都得, 佢仲可以含住d沙律o黎食餅干, 最後吐番d沙律出來又唔會有餅乾碎... 但同時又會有其他奇怪o既行為, 一有突如其來o既聲音佢會逃跑同用手cover耳仔好耐... playgroup換o左老師佢可以喊足成堂都唔參與, 但第2堂佢又冇事... o係自己或者人地畫o既公仔上面打交叉... 我都唔知呢d係唔係有問題, 所以諗佢橫掂都係check就不如一次過o勒! 不過真係好貴, 都真係幾肉痛...



原帖由 gardenwoods 於 09-2-16 15:48 發表
仁安做全面既有劉健真....要$7K左右...

不過如果你懷疑囝囝只有speech delay，沒有其他問題，可以淨係去見speech therapist...近近地威記私家症有....
http://www.ihcr.cuhk.edu.hk/relatedSites/ent/privateSpeech.htm ...
作者: 大鴨媽    時間: 09-2-17 13:00

如果單做speech的assessment好多地方都有,而且不是太貴,反而日後做training就要小心選擇

原帖由 Geni 於 09-2-17 11:43 發表
我就係唔係好肯定佢係唔係只有speech delay, 你話佢講o野唔清楚咩, 又唔係, 佢發音(特別係英文)好準... 佢流口水流到2歲, 但佢個咀同條脷又好靈活, 上下左右反轉都得, 佢仲可以含住d沙律o黎食餅干, 最後吐番d沙律出 ...
作者: Geni    時間: 09-2-19 10:13

我最後都係去o左仁安做assessment, confirm 唔係中英文o既問題, 係speech delay, 仲delay好多o下. 劉醫生真係好prof, 佢解釋得好詳細, 同好肯定(完全冇用過疑似或者 傾向呢d字眼), 又有哂recommendation 同 referal, 好好, 雖然係貴d (不過比我預期o既平o左喎), 但我又覺得值喎!


原帖由 大鴨媽 於 09-2-17 13:00 發表
如果單做speech的assessment好多地方都有,而且不是太貴,反而日後做training就要小心選擇
作者: lycheema    時間: 09-2-19 17:07

但照計正常人條脷不能夠反轉的,如果可以則有可能是舌繫條的問題,see

http://www.tonguetie.net/index.p ... ;id=12&Itemid=3

第二行第三圖, mentioned

Lateral lick, tongue flips over in a bizarre movement, salivary profusion.

條脷識反轉,仲有流口水...

不過可能是我多疑啫!

總覺得大部分speech delay是由tongue tie造成,一部份late talking toddlers 到七歲會正常番,我覺得是因為已充分懂得利用自己的舌頭去發音,糾正了tongue tie的影響,是為"compensation", 正如我老公的例子.....
作者: Geni    時間: 09-2-19 22:59

我以前都覺得可以反轉條脷好奇怪, 每次我老公反脷俾我睇我都覺得好得人驚, 但到舊年我先知原來我自己都得!! 我諗就好似卷脷咁, 係genes o既問題掛 :p

我個仔speech delay唔係發音問題, 係理解同表達o既程度唔理想, 所以training要集中係溝通同社交訓練.

多謝關心



原帖由 lycheema 於 09-2-19 17:07 發表
但照計正常人條脷不能夠反轉的,如果可以則有可能是舌繫條的問題,see

http://www.tonguetie.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=3

第二行第三圖, mentioned

Lateral lick, tongue flips ove ...
作者: lycheema    時間: 09-2-20 23:52



今早見到亞仔個班主任Ms. Puja,佢同我講:

He (亞仔) is very good all the time today, he could answer all my questions.... I asked me what he ate for breakfast, what his favorite toys are and he could answer.... not copying the other kids' answers.... I am happy.

我聽完都好開心!亞仔,
作者: kadie    時間: 09-3-12 22:12

Geni,

may I ask where did you do the training of 溝通同社交訓練? becoz my daughter has the same problem.

She is attending 2 sections of ST in central, $450 per half hour, but seems not very effective.
作者: Geni    時間: 09-3-15 00:39

我未上社交小組, 因為一係時間唔o岩, 一係要等. 你可以去協康個website睇睇, 都有好多選擇, 前兩日協康o既姑娘打過俾我, 佢話其實唔一定只等專係俾要特別training 小朋友o既course, 佢地搞o既其他playgroup都ok.
http://www.heephong.org/chi/activity/child_activity_list.php

其實你又唔好咁心急, 只係上o左2個sections, 未見效都唔奇o既, 我成日諗, 如果個仔講兩講就識, 就唔會delay咁多啦, 依家唯有長時間特訓先有機會追得番o家啦! 大家一齊俾d心機啦!


原帖由 kadie 於 09-3-12 22:12 發表
Geni,

may I ask where did you do the training of 溝通同社交訓練? becoz my daughter has the same problem.

She is attending 2 sections of ST in central, $450 per half hour, but seems not very effectiv ...
作者: gardenwoods    時間: 09-3-15 00:45

你囡囡有無口肌問題？！

中環果個係咪姓宋？！

原帖由 kadie 於 09-3-12 22:12 發表
Geni,

may I ask where did you do the training of 溝通同社交訓練? becoz my daughter has the same problem.

She is attending 2 sections of ST in central, $450 per half hour, but seems not very effectiv ...




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