教育王國
標題: Oxford Reading Tree ORT [打印本頁]
作者: 中天英 時間: 07-12-6 00:38 標題: Oxford Reading Tree ORT
請問小一學生通常讀ORT stage 幾呀？
作者: Benbenmum 時間: 07-12-6 08:39
My son reads stage 5-7.
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-6 10:00
My daughter at K3 is reading stage 9. However, she is considered as more advanced than others. I think that the recommendation is stage 7 at P1.
作者: acer1 時間: 07-12-6 13:03 標題: 回覆 #1 中天英 的文章
是否除了用stage幾來分外，還有用顏色分那套呢？
作者: snowgirl 時間: 07-12-6 13:29
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-6 10:00 發表 
My daughter at K3 is reading stage 9. However, she is considered as more advanced than others. I think that the recommendation is stage 7 at P1.
我小朋友P1, 都係睇到stage 4 咋.
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-6 13:42
原文章由 snowgirl 於 07-12-6 13:29 發表
我小朋友P1, 都係睇到stage 4 咋.
不緊要的, 小朋友可以追得很快.
我用的方法是自小已看英語電視(Disney Playhouse), 家中有英語日. 所以K2己能用英語基本對答.
加上phonics訓練(Letterland + synthetic phonics), 那字能讀出聲, 便能靠口語基礎明白意思. 不用大半年己由stage4到stage9自己看得明.
作者: cissie 時間: 07-12-9 01:47
my son is reading stage 11 (tree top)
作者: eviepa 時間: 07-12-9 07:17
原文章由 snowgirl 於 07-12-6 13:29 發表
我小朋友P1, 都係睇到stage 4 咋.
小六 Comprehension 的深度大約相當於 ORT Stage 9 ，亦大約就是一個英文band 2的小六學生僅能明白的深度。
據我估計，大部分小一學生都是英語文盲，妳的小朋友能看到stage 4 已經是band 1水平，相信如果是就讀中文小學的話，他的英文分數應該不俗。
eviepa
作者: kswiss 時間: 07-12-9 07:25
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作者: ChiChiPaPa 時間: 07-12-9 07:36
1. 會睇並不等於有相等程度的 comprehension skill。ORT 在 stages 1 to 9 有 comprehension booklet。可以考慮買本睇睇。
http://www.oup.com/oxed/primary/literacy/ort/teachingsupport/comprehension_photo_masters/
2. 小一讀緊 stage 幾並不重要。最重要看孩子何時開始 stage 10 或以上。 Stage 10 或以上的書不再是「圖」書，代表孩子的閱讀能力進入下一個階段。 ORT 的 Ages Chart 可以在下面連結取得：
http://www.oup.com/oxednew/pdf/ORTReadingAges.pdf
[ 本文章最後由 ChiChiPaPa 於 07-12-9 07:41 編輯 ]
作者: HuiTung 時間: 07-12-9 13:18
原文章由 ChiChiPaPa 於 07-12-9 07:36 發表
1. 會睇並不等於有相等程度的 comprehension skill。ORT 在 stages 1 to 9 有 comprehension booklet。可以考慮買本睇睇。
http://www.oup.com/oxed/primary/literacy/ort/teachingsupport/comprehension_photo_mas ...
Very true! Many children can "read" very hard words without knowing the meaning as well as the text. One should check her/his child's understanding by asking questions related to the story.
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-9 15:21
原文章由 acer1 於 07-12-6 13:03 發表
是否除了用stage幾來分外，還有用顏色分那套呢？
用顏色分那套叫 Oxford Story Tree (OST), 有7個level. 1. RED, 2 BLUE, 3 GREEN, 4 ORANGE, 5 PINK, 6 PURPLE, 7 BROWN.
故事其實基本是由ORT來的(但不是全部), 編輯減少了英國小朋友的慣用語, 有時會有港式英文用法(不是錯, 而是用字及表達模式的問題).
但由於OST只得七個levels, 書的數目也少一些, 所以level和stage不是對應的, 如Pirate Adventure在ORT是stage 5, 但在OST是level 3 (green). 而OST中level 5(pink)的The Litter Queen, 其實是ORT stage 9. 至於purple和brown故事是ORT的treetop(stage 10-13).
要說這麼多, 是因為OST在香港小學是較流行的, 書店買得到的也是OST多過ORT, 而OST-3其實是ORT-5. 我恐怕有些在這裡的討論是混淆了兩者.
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-9 18:26
原文章由 HuiTung 於 07-12-9 13:18 發表
Very true! Many children can "read" very hard words without knowing the meaning as well as the text. One should check her/his child's understanding by asking questions related to the story.
I totally agree with you.
Some parents force their kids to read aloud and check the number of words pronounced incorrectly. To me, this is absolutely meaningless.
It is better to make the kids read for a purpose. If they follow the stories and read with interest on their own, there is some evidence that they understand.
[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-9 18:30 編輯 ]
作者: eviepa 時間: 07-12-9 21:03
原文章由 kswiss 於 07-12-9 07:25 發表
really,咁個d p.1已能讀 stage 9 既咪好高程度.
P1 十二月份就能讀 stage 9 就大概及得上英、美小孩的水準。
作者: eviepa 時間: 07-12-9 21:11
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-9 18:26 發表
It is better to make the kids read for a purpose. If they follow the stories and read with interest on their own, there is some evidence that they understand.
同意這點。最好能夠做到小朋友閱讀時感覺有趣味，久而久之，英文就會在不知不覺間有大進步。
但問題是，如果小朋友覺得閱讀英文書沒有趣味，對英文書有抗拒的話，大家會怎樣處理？
eviepa
作者: ChiChiPaPa 時間: 07-12-9 21:21
原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-9 21:11 發表
同意這點。最好能夠做到小朋友閱讀時感覺有趣味，久而久之，英文就會在不知不覺間有大進步。
但問題是，如果小朋友覺得閱讀英文書沒有趣味，對英文書有抗拒的話，大家會怎樣處理？
eviepa ...
簡單。那就請他讀中文書。閱讀不需要和人家競賽，但就要有興趣去推動。讀中文書不比英文書差呀！
如果周圍的人都在看英文書，即是說爸爸、媽媽、兄弟姊妹和朋友同學都在看英文書，他總有一天受到感染。做父母的應從周圍的環境（包括以身作則）去引導他的興趣。
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-9 21:35
家中有很多英文書、英文雜誌是原因之一.
但我認為英文的兒童節目是有作用的, 因為提供了背景(故事人物). 而因看的電視沒有中文書(如Dora the explorer, Bob the builder ...), 所以會推動去看英文書.
另外口語的熟悉也是有關的(由英語電視節目而來). 現時有中英文書(例如有些香港出的一面中一面英的故事書), 囡囡會選讀英文的, 問她為什麼, 她說英文讀得出聲便知是什麼意思, 中文她不能肯定有沒有認錯字.
只是分享, 不是競賽, 絶對贊成良好的閱讀習慣比讀的英文書stage多一兩個重要得多.
作者: eviepa 時間: 07-12-9 22:57
ChiChiPaPa/星級國民：
1. 讀中文書不比英文書差 – 我同意，甚至覺得中文閱讀比英文閱讀更形重要，所以教女時是先中後英，她中文閱讀能力比英文閱能力強得多。但問題是，英文亦是重要的一科、中、英皆不可偏廢。除非有ChiChiPaPa的理念：成績、分數，在任何場合都不重要。我則覺得，成績、分數，在任何場合都不重要，呈分試和334新會考除外。
2. 閱讀不需要和人家競賽 – 我覺得閱讀是個競賽，雖不是和別人競賽，但卻要和自己競賽。我覺得如果要學好英文，英語閱讀是最重要一環，英語閱讀能力，要儘快到達一個門檻。看看一個小六band 2生，他僅能讀懂ORT stage 9，十二歲的mental age，但卻只有英國六歲小孩的閱讀能力，只有能力看低B的picture books，很難要求他對英文閱讀產生甚麼的興趣。如果不及早處理，到中學時，mental age跟閱讀能力的差距會愈來愈大，能夠培養得到閱讀興趣的機會只會愈加渺茫。
在我的觀察之中，自動自覺看中文書的小朋友大不乏人，但肯自動去看英文書的卻是鳳毛麟角，所以現實是，要吸引小朋友看英文書需要有相當的技巧。諸位有何高見？
eviepa
作者: 鳳梨 時間: 07-12-9 23:29
讀中文難過英文好多...真係好難令小朋友中英都鍾意睇, 我小朋友每次只睇英文書, 而事實英文寫作, 閱讀理解係好好, 但中文就相反, 真頭痛
quote]原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-9 22:57 發表
ChiChiPaPa/星級國民：
1. 讀中文書不比英文書差 – 我同意，甚至覺得中文閱讀比英文閱讀更形重要，所以教女時是先中後英，她中文閱讀能力比英文閱能力強得多。但問題是，英文亦是重要的一科、中、英皆不可偏廢。除非有ChiCh ... [/quote]
作者: CCheng 時間: 07-12-9 23:38
對eviepa之話十分有同感. 家中99%藏書為英文, 由picture book 至 chapter book 都有. 小兒對閱讀非常有興趣, 已可閱老鼠記者中文版, 不過英文chapter book 讀數段就放棄. 雖他英文程度不差, 經常班內英文科測驗,考試第一, 但總是不能跨過這一步. 相信一些出眾的小朋友會很容易就排除困難, 可進入chapter book 之階段, 但對於大部份小朋友, 由picture 進入chapter book 就不容易, 需一些技巧或策略去推進, 特別是男孩. 各位可否賜教? 謝謝!!
作者: acer1 時間: 07-12-9 23:57
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-9 15:21 發表
用顏色分那套叫 Oxford Story Tree (OST), 有7個level. 1. RED, 2 BLUE, 3 GREEN, 4 ORANGE, 5 PINK, 6 PURPLE, 7 BROWN.
故事其實基本是由ORT來的(但不是全部), 編輯減少了英國小朋友的慣用語, 有時會有港式英 ...
Thank you very much!
作者: 鳳梨 時間: 07-12-10 00:04
You may choose some interesting and simple Chapter book to start first.
原文章由 CCheng 於 07-12-9 23:38 發表
對eviepa之話十分有同感. 家中99%藏書為英文, 由picture book 至 chapter book 都有. 小兒對閱讀非常有興趣, 已可閱老鼠記者中文版, 不過英文chapter book 讀數段就放棄. 雖他英文程度不差, 經常班內英文科測驗, ...
[ 本文章最後由 鳳梨 於 07-12-10 00:07 編輯 ]
作者: stccmc 時間: 07-12-10 00:23
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作者: eviepa 時間: 07-12-10 00:28
原文章由 鳳梨 於 07-12-10 00:04 發表
You may choose some interesting and simple Chapter book to start first.
不單非常同意這點，而且在數年前已經實行了，所以英文的進度亦可謂滿意。但問題是，當女兒英文閱讀能力進步的同時，中文亦以相同的速度地進步，兩者始終維持一個極大的差距，所以看中文書永遠都是吃魚翅，看英文書永遠都是吃粉絲。雖然吃粉絲著實也有點味道，但一想起魚翅的美味，吃粉絲就味同嚼蠟了，根本提不起興趣吃粉絲。
怎辦？
eviepa
作者: peggyyau 時間: 07-12-10 00:44
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作者: eviepa 時間: 07-12-10 01:06
//
據我估計，大部分小一學生都是英語文盲，妳的小朋友能看到stage 4 已經是band 1水平，相信如果是就讀中文小學的 ...
//
Band 1? I have a stage 4 ORT on hand and it is only 24 pages with 1 or 2 very short and simple sentences. Would that make my child band 1?
Stccmc,
這是我的估計，不一定對，但我卻相信這距離事實不遠。
Band 1沒有甚麼大不了，頭三分一就是了，認識妳那麼久，如果妳的孩子不是英文band 1，我會大跌眼鏡。幼稚園是學前教育，基本上沒有多少家長會著孩子看英文書，所以他們大部分都是英語文盲。不要看輕stage 4的一、兩句簡單句子，我堅信，這已考起了大部分小一生。我的女兒在小一時，就沒有能力看stage 4了。
//
P1 十二月份就能讀 stage 9 就大概及得上英、美小孩的水準。
//
It is very difficult to acheive native level spoken English if both parents are native Hong Kong people and the child is studying in a local kinder/school. However, I don't think it is hard for children in Hong Kong to acheive native level English reading & comprehension skills, judging from the ORT age chart. My observation applies to small children under, say 8 years. Just the BK alone, if you do a survey, I bet you will see many children can read Stage 9 and beyond at P1 but few can speak like a native.
我的意思是，其閱讀能力及得上英、美小孩的水準。
妳可以參考 Steps into Reading這套書，書中有一個rough estimation，甚麼年齡的英、美孩子應該看甚麼書，從此推算，ORT stage 9大概就是六歲左右的讀物。
I don't think it has anything to do with language talent or special teaching aids/methods. Many children can read and comprehend English books at native level if they start the reading habit small, eg around 3 years old. When they grow older, eg teens, it becomes more difficult to keep up the reading at a high level. This is where the real challenge is.
在香港缺乏英語的環境，如果要英語閱讀能力及得上鬼妹、鬼仔，可能必定要從三、四歲便開始起步，否則，必定要用一個極大的力度去補救。如小女為例，因為小弟採取先中後英的策略，英文閱讀到了小二才進行，這樣便失了先機，之後無論費盡九牛二虎之力，也不能達到一個很好的結果。
我覺得，到了teens，情況會好些，因為這年紀的人，很多已經有了上進心。小孩只自動做喜歡做的事，其他便要強制而行。相反地，很多的Teenagers已會做一些有用，但沉悶的事來肯定自己，如果英文閱讀已有一定的基礎，則不難令他們有系統地閱讀英文書藉。
eviepa
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 01:37
原文章由 peggyyau 於 07-12-10 00:44 發表
Can you tell me what is synthetic phonics?
It is a phonic approach in which serveral phonic groups are presented at the same time (for example, sh, th, st, tw...) in a story. So the learners cannot just repeat the same sound again and again; they must learn to distinguish sounds and link them to the alphabet groups.
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 01:55
原文章由 CCheng 於 07-12-9 23:38 發表
對eviepa之話十分有同感. 家中99%藏書為英文, 由picture book 至 chapter book 都有. 小兒對閱讀非常有興趣, 已可閱老鼠記者中文版, 不過英文chapter book 讀數段就放棄. 雖他英文程度不差, 經常班內英文科測驗, ...
#17己說了囡囡看英文書的推動力之一是她看的電視人物, 市面只有英文書, 沒有中文書.
男孩可能的吸引力是飛機大炮那些也是英文書多, 要知便要看英文.
有朋友小五兒子是為了看Harry Potter比同學先, 所以讀英文本, 讀完一次就唔再怕看英文chapter books, 現在英文偵探小說一本又一本.
簡而言之, 製造閱讀需要就能引發閱讀潛能.
作者: 鳳梨 時間: 07-12-10 03:17
想講我都識一d小朋友英文好好, 勁嘅小一已睇HOrrible Science, Harry Potter, 一般嘅Magic Tree House, Goosebumps, ....只要愛看書, 中英都好, 不過始終英文重要好多囉
所以從小培養小朋友讀書係好重要, 呢d會係畢生受用.
係最近既Speech Festival, 好多native English speaking students都入唔到圍呢, so 技巧都好重要, 發音只要準, 唔係native一樣掂架
原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-10 01:06 發表
Stccmc,
這是我的估計，不一定對，但我卻相信這距離事實不遠。
Band 1沒有甚麼大不了，頭三分一就是了，認識妳那麼久，如果妳的孩子不是英文band 1，我會大跌眼鏡。幼稚園是學前教育，基本上沒有多少家長會著孩子看英文書，所 ...
[ 本文章最後由 鳳梨 於 07-12-10 06:45 編輯 ]
作者: bbJP 時間: 07-12-10 03:30
原文章由 stccmc 於 07-12-10 00:23 發表
It is very difficult to acheive native level spoken English if both parents are native Hong Kong people and the child is studying in a local kinder/school. However, I don't think it is hard for children in Hong Kong to acheive native level English reading & comprehension skills, judging from the ORT age chart. My observation applies to small children under, say 8 years. Just the BK alone, if you do a survey, I bet you will see many children can read Stage 9 and beyond at P1 but few can speak like a native.
That's really true.
My son study is a good local school. He's reading ability is quite high but can't speak like a native,though he speaks English most of the lessons.
作者: cissie 時間: 07-12-10 05:21 標題: 回覆 #12 星級國民 的文章
really? but my son's school has white brand as well wor
作者: 棉花糖媽媽 時間: 07-12-10 09:03
星級國民
如果想由幼稚園開始培養小朋友閱讀英文書既習慣, 咁應該睇ORT or OST 呢??
我見呢兩個series 既書都好多..... 好似仲有乜野 "read at home" 呀... fiction books... non-fiction books....
亂哂龍.. 煩請賜教 
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-9 15:21 發表
用顏色分那套叫 Oxford Story Tree (OST), 有7個level. 1. RED, 2 BLUE, 3 GREEN, 4 ORANGE, 5 PINK, 6 PURPLE, 7 BROWN.
故事其實基本是由ORT來的(但不是全部), 編輯減少了英國小朋友的慣用語, 有時會有港式英 ...
作者: HuiTung 時間: 07-12-10 09:25
Bringing your child to some storytelling workshops held by public libraries and bookshops is also a good stepping stone for them to feel the magic of English books. Through an author's presentation, children are easily attracted by the author's style, sayings, and writing .... etc. A desire to read would then be built up.
作者: littlesister 時間: 07-12-10 10:00
eviepa
想請教你一點, 在培養小朋友閱讀中文書的時候, 作為家長應怎樣引導和幫助他們呢
囡囡不太主動看中文書, 而且看完後, 總覺得她不是十分明白書中內容和內裡的含意, 而且要求她作簡單介紹, 都做得不大好, 怎樣才可幫助她呢:-| Thanks
原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-9 22:57 發表
ChiChiPaPa/星級國民：
1. 讀中文書不比英文書差 – 我同意，甚至覺得中文閱讀比英文閱讀更形重要，所以教女時是先中後英，她中文閱讀能力比英文閱能力強得多。但問題是，英文亦是重要的一科、中、英皆不可偏廢。除非有ChiCh ...
作者: Mrssslui 時間: 07-12-10 10:04
那些小一/K3已看懂 ORT Stage 9既,係全本書識讀,還是識解呢?我見有d字對佢地嚟講唔係常見,亦唔簡單的. eg. mangle, frisbee, secret, etc. 小朋友自己併讀? 哪麼生字既解釋又如何得知呢?靠估?
原文章由 HuiTung 於 07-12-10 09:25 發表
Bringing your child to some storytelling workshops held by public libraries and bookshops is also a good stepping stone for them to feel the magic of English books. Through an author's presentation, ...
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 10:46
原文章由 cissie 於 07-12-10 05:21 發表
really? but my son's school has white brand as well wor
White colour coded one from Oxford? Have never seen one.
Anyway, the Oxford Story Tree official website: http://www.oupchina.com.hk/s_search/bkDetail.asp?ibid=7738
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 11:00
原文章由 Mrssslui 於 07-12-10 10:04 發表
那些小一/K3已看懂 ORT Stage 9既,係全本書識讀,還是識解呢?我見有d字對佢地嚟講唔係常見,亦唔簡單的. eg. mangle, frisbee, secret, etc. 小朋友自己併讀? 哪麼生字既解釋又如何得知呢?靠估?
...
After watching a healthy amount of English children programmes and going to summer schools in ESF, I am sure my daughter has come accross frisbee and secret, and can recognise them in reading.
I am not sure whether you really mean mangle (which seems an odd word to appear in children's books). If you mean mango, definitely (given that we have English speaking day at home and that's one of my daughter's favourite food). If you mean mingle, I am not sure. Propably she has come accross it but may not recognise it straight away. Occasionally, she ask us for explanation of words.
I seldom ask her to read aloud to us story books. Reading aloud is reserved for poems. So we are not sure about reading in that sense. However, if she read books on her own and talked about the story after reading or asking questions about the content, I am quite safe to say that she understands the bulk of it.
[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 11:10 編輯 ]
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 11:07
原文章由 棉花糖媽媽 於 07-12-10 09:03 發表
星級國民
如果想由幼稚園開始培養小朋友閱讀英文書既習慣, 咁應該睇ORT or OST 呢??
我見呢兩個series 既書都好多..... 好似仲有乜野 "read at home" 呀... fiction books... non-fiction books....
亂哂龍.. ...
OST基本上是選自ORT的, 只是編輯過, 一些沒有英國背景就難明的地方改編了. 並加上朗讀的錄音.
那ORT即多一些書, 但無錄音.
買那個就考慮自已的需要, 但不應重覆地兩套都買.
作者: HuiTung 時間: 07-12-10 11:09
原文章由 Mrssslui 於 07-12-10 10:04 發表
那些小一/K3已看懂 ORT Stage 9既,係全本書識讀,還是識解呢?我見有d字對佢地嚟講唔係常見,亦唔簡單的. eg. mangle, frisbee, secret, etc. 小朋友自己併讀? 哪麼生字既解釋又如何得知呢?靠估?
...
所以能閱讀是否可以retell the story? 能回答有關問題, 明白上文下理以至主題? 字深可以從圖畫去猜估, 然後用字典查解及讀音, 所以個人認小朋友能同時用dictionary去幫助閱讀及理解才可達至quality reading, 比起只是水過鴨背式的閱讀好得多.
Structured readers 其一的特點是repetitive, 所以如secret 在Stage 4 已出現過, Stage 9 見番也不奇.
[ 本文章最後由 HuiTung 於 07-12-10 11:22 編輯 ]
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 11:17
原文章由 HuiTung 於 07-12-10 11:09 發表
所以能閱讀是否可以retell the story? 能回答有關問題, 明白上文下理以至主題? 字深可以從圖畫去猜估, 然後用字典查解及讀音, 所以個人認小朋友能同時用dictionary去幫助閱讀及理解才可達至quality reading, 比 ...
Retell the story? Yes, in both English and Chinese. 讀故事書時用字典查解及讀音, 絕不鼓勵. 閱讀習慣要以趣味為主才可持久.
作者: 棉花糖媽媽 時間: 07-12-10 11:18
Thank you....
咁係咪OST 會啱H.K. students 多d呢???
好似OST有exercise 跟埋... 係唔係呀???
Sorry... 咁多野問tim 
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 11:07 發表
OST基本上是選自ORT的, 只是編輯過, 一些沒有英國背景就難明的地方改編了. 並加上朗讀的錄音.
那ORT即多一些書, 但無錄音.
買那個就考慮自已的需要, 但不應重覆地兩套都買. ...
作者: Mrssslui 時間: 07-12-10 11:22
明白了,你的小朋友有相當程度,要配合其他既背景/環境,正如之前有個媽媽講,一般p.1既學生可能只有stage 4 level(如果只讀local kinder而沒有其他配合)
我所講的係 mangle 不是 mango,我剛剛從一本 stage 7 'The Broken Roof' 見到的,應該係一個英國人用既字而其他國藉既人真的未見過,ORT間唔中都有呢d英國用語,所以我都奇怪小朋友係唔係會識得晒(當然係可以靠picture去理解).
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 11:00 發表
After watching a healthy amount of English children programmes and going to summer schools in ESF, I am sure my daughter has come accross frisbee and secret, and can recognise them in reading.
I a ...
作者: Mrssslui 時間: 07-12-10 11:27
其實,如果唔要求佢地識讀/識解每一個字,而係自己睇而要明白故事既意思,發展,咁我相信K3/P.1識睇並唔難.
我仔仔 k2,也能單憑picture估到故事內容及結局,配合埋我讀,佢都能明白晒.
作者: HuiTung 時間: 07-12-10 11:30
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 11:17 發表
Retell the story? Yes, in both English and Chinese. 讀故事書時用字典查解及讀音, 絕不鼓勵. 閱讀習慣要以趣味為主才可持久.
學外文不用dictionary, 那麼你認為有什麼好的tools? 能自學的、真正喜歡閱讀的、想從書中找倒趣味的, 不能理解那會有fun?
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 11:53
原文章由 HuiTung 於 07-12-10 11:30 發表
學外文不用dictionary, 那麼你認為有什麼好的tools? 能自學的、真正喜歡閱讀的、想從書中找倒趣味的, 不能理解那會有fun?
那工具叫做媽媽, 有時爸爸都得 . 人會解得快, 而且是照內容的情景去解, 而不是用定義的方法去解.
例如解mangle會用all broken去解, 而唔會用being battered去解.
作者: HuiTung 時間: 07-12-10 12:19
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 11:53 發表
那工具叫做媽媽, 有時爸爸都得 . 人會解得快, 而且是照內容的情景去解, 而不是用定義的方法去解.
例如解mangle會用all broken去解, 而唔會用being battered去解. ...
我唔知你小朋友幾大, 很可能仍在fiction book 階段, 到read literature, non-fiction 或再大些時候你便知able to use a dictionary (esp. English-English) 的重要了.
作者: Fion_Chan 時間: 07-12-10 13:44
原文章由 鳳梨 於 07-12-10 00:04 發表
You may choose some interesting and simple Chapter book to start first.
鳳梨,
Could you recommend some examples of "interesting and simple chapter books"?
I find Geronimo is already quite an example of "interesting" for the coloured pictures and featured keywords (the black and white printing of Junie B, Magic Tree House, A-Z mystery, etc is a bit too dull for a P1 child) but I think there is a gap between this kind of chapter books and ORT's stage 9 books.
作者: bubumom 時間: 07-12-10 13:52
I have started to let my daughter to read ORT when she was 2. Is it too early?
作者: 357 時間: 07-12-10 14:05
根據個人經驗，觀察及意見, ORT 是較可取的.
- ORT 共有9 stages.
每個stage 最少包括18本書 (即主要Story (6 books), Story Pack A (6 books), Story Pack B (6 books)) 有些stages e.g. Stages 3 to 7 甚至有 Story Pack C (6 books).
大家可到天地或青田看看。 - 如果小朋友由Stage 1 開始 閱讀 這套書 (當然有其他 配套 e.g. 幼稚園有教phonics或家長伴讀)，他們大部份都會愛上這套書。
- 由於ORT 的書比較OST多, 小朋友更能循序漸進地建立他們的閱讀能力。
- 由於ORT 的書比較OST有系統,若小朋友一個stage跟一個stage地閱讀這套書，他們應不會覺得困難，因為他們會從書中(憑看圖畫配合文字)領會/學會書中的生字。
- 由於OST 只是ORT 的一部份，若小朋友可以接觸到ORT，相信他們會覺得ORT更有趣味。有些小朋友甚至會一本接一本地追看。例如新出的Stage 6C 及 Stage 7C。
- ORT 也有出版comprehension exercise book. 但要響website 訂。
- OST 為配合HK 學生而出版，但若要英文好，何不用原裝貨。
- ORT 也有朗讀CD (up to stage 3) /卡式帶 (up to stage 8?). 個人認為，若小朋友能獨立閱讀stage 4 or above, 有沒有朗讀CD去配合亦不是大問題。
建議:
(a)
循序漸進 - 讓小朋友一個stage跟一個stage地閱讀這套書。例如: Stage 4 story 最後一本書是講及如何發現Magic Key.
又例如enormous這個字雖然深，但當它與恐龍一起出現 (Stage 6 – Land of Dinosaurs)時，小朋友可以估到 這個字的意思。
(b)
不要強迫，不要比較 – 若小朋友喜歡就盡量配合，否則不要強迫。
其實ORT 真是一套好適合幼兒/小朋友閱讀的英文書。希望家長們能介紹這套書給你們的小朋友，讓他們因此而愛上閱讀英文書。
原文章由 棉花糖媽媽 於 07-12-10 11:18 發表
Thank you....
咁係咪OST 會啱H.K. students 多d呢???
好似OST有exercise 跟埋... 係唔係呀???
Sorry... 咁多野問tim
作者: 棉花糖媽媽 時間: 07-12-10 14:20
好詳細呀.... thank you 哂 357
但係呢d書係咪圖書館有得借架???
ORT - Read at Home series 又係d乜野黎
原文章由 357 於 07-12-10 14:05 發表
根據個人經驗，觀察及意見, ORT 是較可取的.
ORT 共有9 stages.
每個stage 最少包括18本書 (即主要Story (6 books), Story Pack A (6 books), Story Pack B (6 books)) 有些stages e.g. Stages 3 to 7 甚至有 Sto ...
[ 本文章最後由 棉花糖媽媽 於 07-12-10 14:36 編輯 ]
作者: Mrssslui 時間: 07-12-10 14:29
我仔仔係主動叫我講比佢聽架,佢自己真係好有興趣,完全不用強迫.晚晚叫我講幾本,每本30頁,我比佢更辛苦,真係口都乾.培養興趣係好重要,你唔迫佢,佢都自己攞嚟睇.
作者: christf 時間: 07-12-10 14:56
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作者: 鳳梨 時間: 07-12-10 15:05
Do you mean all kids studying in IS are prodigy Yours is the exceptional one or the best
原文章由 christf 於 07-12-10 14:56 發表
If I were you, I would shut up my mouth of not giving wrong advice to other BK parents here.
Have you ever known how IS schools build up students in reading literacy?
Can you distinguish the differe ...
作者: christf 時間: 07-12-10 15:12
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作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 16:02
I would not bother checking. It is just the method used by Kumon and it is stupidity.
[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 16:15 編輯 ]
作者: christf 時間: 07-12-10 16:16
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作者: Lofty 時間: 07-12-10 16:30
興趣培養左之後, 點可以訓練小朋友自己睇書, 而唔洗家長讀比佢聽呢? (其實小朋友自己既程度可以讀全本書)
原文章由 Mrssslui 於 07-12-10 14:29 發表
我仔仔係主動叫我講比佢聽架,佢自己真係好有興趣,完全不用強迫.晚晚叫我講幾本,每本30頁,我比佢更辛苦,真係口都乾.培養興趣係好重要,你唔迫佢,佢都自己攞嚟睇. ...
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 16:48
原文章由 christf 於 07-12-10 16:16 發表
You are really stupid and like a frog under the well. You even can't disguish the worst teaching style of Kumon from the techniques used by IS.
Open your mind, do more research and be humble to ask ...
Ask for advice from someone who does not know that it is "a frog in a well" rather that "a frog under the well"? No, thank you.:tongue:
作者: christf 時間: 07-12-10 16:55
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作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 17:06
Use the method from someone who doesn't know the huge difference between the Oxford English Dictionary and the Advanced Learner's Dictionary and hide the error of using "under" instead of "in" as typos??
Not a chance.
作者: christf 時間: 07-12-10 17:12
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作者: 鳳梨 時間: 07-12-10 17:17
你同我一樣, 主要比d佢鍾意既書佢開始, such ａｓ Captain Underpants, MightY Robot, Batman, Spiderman, Sonic, Pokemon, Sponge Bob because those are very familiar to him (TV program) 跟住就揀ｄ較educational， A to Z Mysteries, Horrible Science, Magic School Bus Science Chapter Book...間中都比佢睇ｄ "Manga".
原文章由 wbady 於 07-12-10 17:05 發表
我家小朋友三年級時看Captain Underpants後自已到互联網找這書之網頁，玩那裡的遊戲，從此愛上此系列之書，並學了很多英文生字，四年級時愛上看A to Z Mysteries 更和作者Ron Roy互通电邮，現在他非常喜歡Horrible及Dead Fam ...
[ 本文章最後由 鳳梨 於 07-12-10 17:21 編輯 ]
作者: JennyL 時間: 07-12-10 18:09
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 11:00 發表
I seldom ask her to read aloud to us story books. Reading aloud is reserved for poems. So we are not sure about reading in that sense. However, if she read books on her own and talked about the story after reading or asking questions about the content, I am quite safe to say that she understands the bulk of it.
It is advisable to ask a child to read aloud if we are talking about reading for the purpose of learning a language. The ORT books are graded readers with that purpose (ie learning the language), so children should start by reading alour.
There is no better way of learning a language, by doing what the native tongues would do. If we are talking about western way of learning English language (including the way they learn at international schools in Hong Kong adopting a western curriculum), it would be reading aloud.
Do not underestimate the benefit of reading aloud. You cannot tell how much a child can read and understand from a book if he does not read aloud. Knowing the story plot does not indicate he is reading a book of the right level. With books like ORT where there are lots of pictures, he can easily guess what is going on without the real need of knowing the words. So by merely asking questions about the content does not tell you whether you kid is reading a book of the right level.
Qualified western teachers would be able tell you that to conduct a quality reading (both at home and at school) task, we have to ask the kid to read aloud to check whether he can read the word (or if the word is new to him, whether he can get/guess the pronounciation by sounding out or by checking the context/content), and then followed by simple questions about the context/content or discussion of the topic (if book is non-fiction).
Of course, if we are talking about leisure reading, it does not really matter what book you read and it does not matter whether you know how to read all the words. However, I do not think the ORT are generally considered leisure reading books, especially in local schools. So we need to maintain the boundary high.
Parents are tempted to be unconciously too aggressive. But for the genuine benefit of a child, we should really stop and think what we should expect from the reading.
Is our goal merely to have our children move on to harder books? Or is our goal really to have our children learn from the books? If these 2 goals can be acheived at the same time, it would of course be perfect. However, parents are too tempted to sacrifice the later for the former.
[ 本文章最後由 JennyL 於 07-12-10 20:06 編輯 ]
作者: Mrssslui 時間: 07-12-10 18:40
very agreed with you.
原文章由 JennyL 於 07-12-10 18:09 發表
It is advisable to ask a child to read aloud if we are talking about reading for the purpose of learning a language. The ORT books are graded readers with that purpose (ie learning the language), so ...
作者: 芷鍛 時間: 07-12-10 21:16
有ORT,中央圖書館及大會堂圖書館比較整,但沒有練習及CD.
原文章由 棉花糖媽媽 於 07-12-10 14:20 發表
好詳細呀.... thank you 哂 357
但係呢d書係咪圖書館有得借架???
ORT - Read at Home series 又係d乜野黎
作者: ChiChiPaPa 時間: 07-12-10 21:52
講開 reading aloud，請問有冇人知中文是不是都可用同樣的方法？
即是說在幼兒期，教小孩漢語拼音，然後在小孩的讀物裡貼上漢語拼音，好讓他就算不會艱深的中文字，亦可以用普通話朗讀出故事的內容。
英文方面，是否可以在小學前教孩子認44個國際音標？這樣在小學時期，只要在小孩讀物上的 tricky words (即是不跟字母發音的生字) 加上音標，他就能朗讀出課外讀物的內容。這是否 work 呢？
如果不是native speakers，在中文讀物的難字上寫下英文同義詞，而在英文讀物的生字寫上中文同義詞。這是好主意，還是壞主意呢？
仔仔今年三歲，他和囡囡(九歲)是用英文交談，這是一個人為的語文環境。他們已習慣了用英文交談，但這種人為的語文環境是否不能長久呢？
我聽說太子附近有一些專補名校學生的學校，這些補習學校除了可幫到校內成績外，是否可以真的提升英語能力呢？有沒有人有這種經驗。
[ 本文章最後由 ChiChiPaPa 於 07-12-10 21:53 編輯 ]
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 22:08
原文章由 JennyL 於 07-12-10 18:09 發表
It is advisable to ask a child to read aloud if we are talking about reading for the purpose of learning a language. The ORT books are graded readers with that purpose (ie learning the language), so ...
The Oxford Reading Tree storybook boxes and the Read at Home series are designed for the purpose of leisure reading (reading for fun). Visit their website (http://www.oup.com/oxed/children/readathome/) and you will know the purpose of these books.
If you need read aloud material, ORT has a poetry collection called Poetry Chest. (http://www.oup.com/oxed/children/poetry/). Poetries and rhymes are for reading aloud and memorizing. There are plenty of such books beyond ORT. Encourage your kids to take part in the school speech festival.
Addition read aloud ORT material for schools is a set of drama scripts based on the story books. So school kids should not read aloud the story but the scripts.
All modern reading research advises against the practice of reading aloud fiction and non-fiction books because that habit will slow down reading speed later on in life.
[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 23:01 編輯 ]
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 22:12
原文章由 christf
於 07-12-10 17:12 發表
...
However, I never made logical error and that is why what I could have achieved in all other non-language subjects.
...
People with little formal training in language or logics have difficulties in recognising their own mistakes.
Have you heard about the fallacy of argumentum ad hominem? Of course, you would not find such words in the Advanced Learner's Dictionary which you rely as authority. Google them please.
Just a bit of simple reading will help you to know that arguing by labelling your opponents as stupid is a common kind of logical error.
Ignorance breeds contempt
[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 22:27 編輯 ]
作者: stccmc 時間: 07-12-10 22:22
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作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-10 22:58
ChiChiPaPa,
I fully support stccmc's advice.
Just an additional piece of information about tutorial schools. I would recommend the Kid's GaXXXX in Kowloon Tong. They are not helping school work but training real English like peotry reading, drama and speech, presentation skills etc for childern (K to P).
作者: ChiChiPaPa 時間: 07-12-10 23:06
原文章由 wbady 於 07-12-10 17:05 發表
我家小朋友三年級時看Captain Underpants後自已到互联網找這書之網頁，玩那裡的遊戲，從此愛上此系列之書，並學了很多英文生字，四年級時愛上看A to Z Mysteries 更和作者Ron Roy互通电邮，現在他非常喜歡Horrible及Dead Fam ...
wbady，
請問你的孩子有沒有考FCE？是否有可能在小學時期在FCE拿到很好的Grade？
[ 本文章最後由 ChiChiPaPa 於 07-12-10 23:07 編輯 ]
作者: JennyL 時間: 07-12-11 09:58
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-10 22:08 發表
The Oxford Reading Tree storybook boxes and the Read at Home series are designed for the purpose of leisure reading (reading for fun). Visit their website (http://www.oup.com/oxed/children/readathom ...
There are 2 main types of reading.
Leisure reading is reading for no purpose other than for personal entertainment. I read a lot for leisure, my children too. My elder child is now reading some of my Agatha Christie's Poirot books which are definitely difficult for her. Many words are difficult for her, the English in the books is old fashioned and the context can be quite mature. But since that is leisure reading, she does not have to know all the words. All she has been doing is to read for the plot. And I just let her do it.
The ORT is definitely not one of those leisure reading books, at least not in your case, since your child is reading it with the purpose of learning English. Rather, the series was developed with the main purpose of teaching the language. In fact, I know that some local kindergarten or primary incorporate this set of books as part of their English language teaching tool books and student are using them in class. It is not like my Poirot books or even the Harry Potter series, which the authors did not intend to teach the English language with their books. Using the Harry Potter books as an example, even young western kids might have problems understanding some of the more challenging words. But we would not stop them from reading (I do not want to discuss about the context, which some very religious people think is "evil") just because there are words that they do not unerstand. They are merely reading the books as leisure reading, they are merely reading for the story itself. As long as they know what happened next, they are pleased.
The ORT is not the same. The sole purpose of levelling the books is to monitor the reading level of children and help them improve. In western education, both reading and spelling are systematicall levelled. Western teachers would tell parents how to select books for children as part of the home reading program. The simplest way is to check how many words in one page (full of words with no pictures) that a child cannot read. If there are more than 6, the book is too difficult. Now I am talking about books much more advanced than the ORT. I am talking about chapter books like, say, Roald Dahl books. For the ORT books where tere are so many big pictures, I would say at most 2 words that a kid cannot read in one page would be the limit. Then after the kid has learnt the words (the meaning and pronounciation), he can move on.
The children need to go on to the next reading level when they are ready. When are they ready? How do we tell they are ready? There is no way better than asking him to read aloud. If a child is skipping the more challenging words, he can still know the story but he is not learning that word he skipped. And without learning the words in a ORT book in a lower level, I do not think a child should move on to the next.
I wrote my previous message (and this) with the purpose of sharing my own experience as a mother with 2 children, one of them is now in secondary school. My children have out grown the levelled readers a long time ago. They are now in much more advanced books. My elder child is now into her first year in secondary school where her English class is more of literature appreciation than the language skills itself. However, since both of my childre have once read the ORT books, I know how the books were designed to work, and wanted to share my views.
I am merely putting forth some of my personal views of hot to utilize the ORT a better way. If you like it your way, that's good. If you are happy with your child's progress, that's good. But I am sure some other parents would like to see an alternative way of utilizing the ORT books.
I have been a parent volunteer at my younger child's class (primary school) to hear children read to me. It is part of the reading program where children are to get a book of the correct level (This is not leisure reading, but with the purpose of improving their reading skills.) I noticed that even native English speaking children can have the problem of choosing books. Girls tend to choose very difficult books; and boys tend to choose very easy books. There are exception of course but children just do not know how to choose books to read (for this reading program, not leisure reading), for the specific purpose (ie to improve reading skills), and teachers and parents were to help them. They were asked to read to us, so that we can tell them whether the book chose is ok. Children would not benefit if they have chosen books that are not of the appropriate level to read. Either way, they would not be learning as efficiently as they should have.
作者: Mrssslui 時間: 07-12-11 10:07
JennyL,
Thks for yr sharing!
原文章由 JennyL 於 07-12-11 09:58 發表
There are 2 main types of reading.
Leisure reading is reading for no purpose other than for personal entertainment. I read a lot for leisure, my children too. My elder child is now reading some of ...
作者: JennyL 時間: 07-12-11 10:18
講開 reading aloud，請問有冇人知中文是不是都可用同樣的方法？
<=== I would think so. Without reading aloud, you just cannot tell whether a child has the correct pronounciation. Even with Cantonese, many children have "lan yam" and do not pronounce a word properly. If we are talking about learning Putonghua, children of course should be encouraged to read aloud. I just do not see how reading aloud can be bad.
即是說在幼兒期，教小孩漢語拼音，然後在小孩的讀物裡貼上漢語拼音，好讓他就算不會艱深的中文字，亦可以用普通話朗讀出故事的內容。
<=== Do not overdo in putting in the pinyin. My experience is that, my younger child was once very dependent on the pinyin. He has in fact been reading directly fromt he pinyin instead of the chinese words.
英文方面，是否可以在小學前教孩子認44個國際音標？這樣在小學時期，只要在小孩讀物上的 tricky words (即是不跟字母發音的生字) 加上音標，他就能朗讀出課外讀物的內容。這是否 work 呢？
<=== Not sure whether it is good. But my children never learnt 國際音標, or phonics. They have always been taught to chop up words and were encouraged to sound them out.
如果不是native speakers，在中文讀物的難字上寫下英文同義詞，而在英文讀物的生字寫上中文同義詞。這是好主意，還是壞主意呢？
<=== My experience is that, writing the meaning in the corresponding language should be better.
仔仔今年三歲，他和囡囡(九歲)是用英文交談，這是一個人為的語文環境。他們已習慣了用英文交談，但這種人為的語文環境是否不能長久呢？
<=== If they continue to so so, yes, they might eventually be very used to speaking with each other in English. My children are exactly like this.
我聽說太子附近有一些專補名校學生的學校，這些補習學校除了可幫到校內成績外，是否可以真的提升英語能力呢？有沒有人有這種經驗。
<=== My children have never 補習. (With 2 children of different ages that are very active and have lots of sports interests, sometimes it is hard to fit this into our schedule.) But if you are able to find a good tutor, we should, however, not underestimate the benefit. I know that some 補習學校 has their own very systematic way of teaching which can boost up English skills for local school children.
作者: littlesister 時間: 07-12-11 10:21
JennyL
Really share your view. Thanks for sharing
原文章由 JennyL 於 07-12-11 09:58 發表
There are 2 main types of reading.
Leisure reading is reading for no purpose other than for personal entertainment. I read a lot for leisure, my children too. My elder child is now reading some of ...
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-11 11:55
原文章由 JennyL 於 07-12-11 09:58 發表
There are 2 main types of reading.
Leisure reading is reading for no purpose other than for personal entertainment. I read a lot for leisure, my children too. My elder child is now reading some of ...
·
I think there are points to discuss concerning ways to use ORT as a tool to learn English.
·
(1) I think reading for leisure will help learning of English a lot. Actually there is much research evidence for the level of proficiency being related to the amount of extra-class reading. So do not assume that leisure reading is not part of learning English.
·
(2) If you would like to check whether kids are choosing the correct ORT stages, Oxford has published comprehension worksheets to go with the books. Those are much better tools for judging reading at appropriate levels.
·
(3) For in class reading (of the same book) or at home reading, comprehension level can be checked by discussions on the content of the books.
··
(4) Reading aloud is a poor way of checking understanding. Many of us may have the experience of reading a piece which we know every words but the meaning is difficult to grasp. If you know all the words, you can read aloud. [Actually, I can read aloud a piece of German without knowing the meanings of most of the words]. However, with complex sentence structures and complicated lines of thought, the meaning can be difficult to follow. Learning to read is reading for meaning, not sound.
··
(5) Go and visit any Kumon centre and you will know that this graded read aloud method has been the standard practice of Kumon. It has been shown to be of very limited use in both Japan (English) and Hong Kong (English and Putonghua).
··
(6) Especially the later stages and the tree-top series, the language used is not for reading aloud. Those of us with experience will know that we have to use different language structures in writing a speech and writing a paper report. The same applies to writing stories to be read aloud and to be read silently.
··
(7) That is why oxford has prepared drama scripts to accompany the school set. The drama scripts have been designed with the purpose of reading aloud. So if read aloud activities are needed in school. Those drama scripts should be used.
There is nothing personal. There would not be serios harm by occasionally asking kids to read aloud. However, I do think that there are much better ways to use ORT and its related resource packs.
[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-11 11:58 編輯 ]
作者: 鳳梨 時間: 07-12-11 12:11
點解好似咁complicated.
讀書唔一定要speak aloud
especially睇緊小說, 追緊劇情,
只要上心就得啦
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-11 11:55 發表
·
I think there are points to discuss concerning ways to use ORT as a tool to learn English.
·
(1) I think reading for leisure will help learning of English a lot. Actually there is much research e ...
[ 本文章最後由 鳳梨 於 07-12-11 12:13 編輯 ]
作者: ChiChiPaPa 時間: 07-12-11 15:26
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-11 11:55 發表
......
·
(7) That is whyoxford has prepared drama scripts to accompany the school set. Thedrama scripts have been designed with the purpose of reading aloud. Soif read aloud activities are needed in school. Those drama scriptsshould be used.I think there are points to discuss concerning ways to use ORT as a tool to learn English.
·
講起drama，有冇人知戲劇教學是不是真的能提升對英國文學的興趣？以下有一篇報導講女拔有使用戲劇教學。「…每學年她亦會安排學生觀看話劇，並邀請資深戲劇工作者來校演講，希望加強學生的文學修養。…」
http://paper.wenweipo.com/2007/09/17/ED0709170015.htm
作者: JennyL 時間: 07-12-11 15:35
原文章由 鳳梨 於 07-12-11 12:11 發表
點解好似咁complicated.
讀書唔一定要speak aloud
especially睇緊小說, 追緊劇情,
只要上心就得啦
Agreed 100%.
There is no need to read aloud if you are reading a book for the story, eg Harry Potter series.
My suggestion of reading aloud was a one off task; and for those levelled readers only.
My child has to read aloud to me to see whether he can pronounce the words.
If he could not pronounce a word, I would teach him how to pronounce it. Then he is to stick to the same level for some time.
[ 本文章最後由 JennyL 於 07-12-11 17:24 編輯 ]
作者: 鳳梨 時間: 07-12-11 15:42
呢度係"小學雜談", 已經去度"文學修養", 勁
女拔都係中學先用戲劇教學?
原文章由 ChiChiPaPa 於 07-12-11 15:26 發表
講起drama，有冇人知戲劇教學是不是真的能提升對英國文學的興趣？以下有一篇報導講女拔有使用戲劇教學。「…每學年她亦會安排學生觀看話劇，並邀請資深戲劇工作者來校演講，希望加強學生的文學修養。…」
http://paper.we ...
作者: ChiChiPaPa 時間: 07-12-11 16:15
原文章由 鳳梨 於 07-12-11 15:42 發表
呢度係"小學雜談", 已經去度"文學修養", 勁
女拔都係中學先用戲劇教學?
節錄自女小拔網頁：
TheatreArts Education in English has also been introduced into the formal English curriculum for all Primary 4 and 5 girls during oral lessons to develop eloquence and confidence in using English when performing for a large audience. Along these lines of drama in education, the School organizes extra-curricular activities ranging from Shakespearean Drama performances to Chinese Story-telling and Verse-speaking Competitions,as well as the Putonghua Variety Show to encourage pupils to further develop and strengthen their language skills in meaningful and interesting manners.
[ 本文章最後由 ChiChiPaPa 於 07-12-11 16:31 編輯 ]
作者: 鳳梨 時間: 07-12-11 16:33
我囝囝學校小一開始都有莎士比亞drama上, 好多小學而家都好著重drama, 如培僑, 但咁細嘅小朋友真係未到呢過層次囉..去欣賞文學嘅精髓, 仲要英文程度有番咁上吓, 當然女拔緊係例外...英文程度超晒班
不過drama真係可令小朋友夠膽去表現自己, 増強自信就係事實..
原文章由 ChiChiPaPa 於 07-12-11 16:15 發表
節錄自女小拔網頁：
TheatreArts Education in English has also been introduced into the formal English curriculum for all Primary 4 and 5 girls during oral lessons to develop eloquence and confidence i ...
作者: JennyL 時間: 07-12-11 17:20
(1) I think reading for leisure will help learning of English a lot. Actually there is much research evidence for the level of proficiency being related to the amount of extra-class reading. So do not assume that leisure reading is not part of learning English.
<=== You are misreading my message. Leisure reading helps, of course. But ORT is not leisure reading. That's it.
(2) If you would like to check whether kids are choosing the correct ORT stages, Oxford has published comprehension worksheets to go with the books. Those are much better tools for judging reading at appropriate levels.
<=== I never purchased those worksheets. In fact, I never purchased any ORT books. The kids read a lot of them and there was no point buying the whole set. There must be many ways of judging the kids level. Your way probably suit you better. But I am asking for more, that's it. My kids, at those younger age (before 7), had to read to me aloud every now and then, so that I know that they can really pronounce the words. Once they learnt the word, they are free to read by themselves the same book the next day. Some kids recognise the words, or even know the meaning, but they cannot pronounce it. I just do not see how a kid that keep skipping words can be qualified to go to another level.
(3) For in class reading (of the same book) or at home reading, comprehension level can be checked by discussions on the content of the books.
<=== Discission is only part of the assessment procedures. Like I said, anyone can know how the story goes and still cannot pronounce the words. For some books, you can practically skip paragraphs and still know what's going on. He comprehends the book but he is not learning the words. At least, I do not think the ORT was designed for children to skip words.
(4) Reading aloud is a poor way of checking understanding. Many of us may have the experience of reading a piece which we know every words but the meaning is difficult to grasp. If you know all the words, you can read aloud. [Actually, I can read aloud a piece of German without knowing the meanings of most of the words]. However, with complex sentence structures and complicated lines of thought, the meaning can be difficult to follow. Learning to read is reading for meaning, not sound.
<=== I never said reading aloud is for checking understanding. Reading aloud is to check whether a kid can pronounce the word. Then, it has to be followed by discussions and questions. So it is takes both. You need to know how to read the word and the meaning as well. PLUS you need to comprehend the story. You seem to be doing half only.
(5) Go and visit any Kumon centre and you will know that this graded read aloud method has been the standard practice of Kumon. It has been shown to be of very limited use in both Japan (English) and Hong Kong (English and Putonghua).
<=== I am not a fan of Kumon, in particular their English or Chinese programs.
(6) Especially the later stages and the tree-top series, the language used is not for reading aloud. Those of us with experience will know that we have to use different language structures in writing a speech and writing a paper report. The same applies to writing stories to be read aloud and to be read silently.
<=== Reading aloud, like I said, is for beginners like your child. So I was focusing on the ORT only. And the reading aloud is purely for assessment purpose. They can freely read on their own the first or second time, but for me to decide whether my children are reading books of the appropriate level, I need to ask them to read aloud, AT LEAST ONCE. For advanced readers, like upper primary students, there might be no need to read aloud at all. No one would read aloud the Harry Potter Series. You seem to have misunderstood my message.
(7) That is why oxford has prepared drama scripts to accompany the school set. The drama scripts have been designed with the purpose of reading aloud. So if read aloud activities are needed in school. Those drama scripts should be used.
<=== All story books can be used as "reading aloud" tools.
There is nothing personal. There would not be serios harm by occasionally asking kids to read aloud. However, I do think that there are much better ways to use ORT and its related resource packs.
<=== Have I been personal? I do not even know who you are. I was here to share my experience and views. There are many ways to suit different people. But it is unfortunate if my views have been misunderstood and misquoted.
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-11 17:44
Have I misunderstood your point? Is it your point that ORT for learning English should be read aloud?
If that is not your original point, I am sorry that I cannot follow your post. However, it seems to me it is still the case (with AT LEAST ONCE this time but not the previous post). So I still would suggest a discussion about whether it is good to read aloud ORT. A discussion means that I am not accusing you of anything but I am stating my reasons.
My Kid got plenty of read aloud activities. Actually, she just got a certificate of merit from the School Speech Festival a few days ago. However, I only ask her to read poems, rhymes, drama scripts .... The only story book she has been asked to read aloud is "Cat in the Hat" -- but that is written for the purpose of reading aloud.
So, my main point is that there are many materials written for reading aloud and I do not think ORT is one of them.
[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-11 17:51 編輯 ]
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-11 17:54
There are actually English drama activities for kindergarten kids.
作者: JennyL 時間: 07-12-11 20:44
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-11 17:44 發表
Have I misunderstood your point? Is it your point that ORT for learning English should be read aloud?
If that is not your original point, I am sorry that I cannot follow your post. However, it seems ...
It seems that we have all along been talking about very different expectations/values.
The discussion started out when you said that you did not care whether you child can read the words in the ORT books before letting her move on to the next level. I therefore raised that this should not be the proper way of assessing a child.
I never said that all books should be read aloud. And I never said that children of all ages should read books aloud. I was talking about young beginners that are still reading the ORT books.
FYI, reading aloud is a good way of learning a new language even for adult. Without asking the student to read aloud, how can you be so sure that the pronounciation is correct?
In any case, if you still insist that without knowing how to pronounce words in those ORT and your child can still move on to the next level, then let it be.
I want to be more direct this time --- just this last time. Your child is only a beginner in learning English. Just be humble and do things step by step. Do not compare to more advanced learners, your child is just not one of them yet. There is nothing wrong doing things slower in the beginning. Learning a language is not easy. Just do what a beginner should be doing and let her move on at proper pace.
This is the last message I am going to write. It quite tiring reading and typing so many words within a day. I think there is no point dragging on. We are both not wrong, just that we have very different priorities and values.
Last, I never have doubt in your child's English level. I am sure she is good, well, she has to be good, right?
Good day.
作者: 中天英 時間: 07-12-12 00:55
估唔到咁多人發表意見, 我睇小朋友學英文, 眞係好多家長关注既問題。
其實都唔洗爭論得咁面紅耳熱, 我淨係好奇問吓小一學生讀ORT stage幾咁簡單。
以我既小朋友為例, 佢讀中文幼兒園, 今年升上一間中文小學, 我地响屋企都係講中文既; 前幾日見佢响學校, 囉左本ORT stage 5 <<irates Adventure>>返屋企, 咁咪叫佢讀比我地聽吓, 佢都一字不漏讀晒出離; 所以就好奇問吓多位小一學生讀緊ORT stage幾嘍ｏ
[ 本文章最後由 中天英 於 07-12-12 00:57 編輯 ]
作者: easymum 時間: 07-12-12 11:13
請問Magic Tree House此套書，是否適合小一學生閱讀？
作者: eviepa 時間: 07-12-12 21:23
原文章由 easymum 於 07-12-12 11:13 發表
請問Magic Tree House此套書，是否適合小一學生閱讀？
這套書的深度，比中三的全港系統評估的英文閱讀理解深了不少，如果小一就能讀懂，那麼小六時.......
作者: 星級國民 時間: 07-12-12 23:44
原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-12 21:23 發表
這套書的深度，比中三的全港系統評估的英文閱讀理解深了不少，如果小一就能讀懂，那麼小六時.......
為什麼?
Magic Tree House是寫初小學生看的. 我估和同出版社的Dr Seuss深淺差不多. Dr Seuss 的我囡囡(k3)己看得明, 也可讀出聲(因為句字是rhyming的, 所以可以用來朗讀).
不過我無買過Magic Tree House, 所以是靠估.
如果想有點non-fiction元素, Scholastic的Usborne Beginners不錯.
[ 本文章最後由 星級國民 於 07-12-12 23:45 編輯 ]
作者: eviepa 時間: 07-12-13 01:35
原文章由 星級國民 於 07-12-12 23:44 發表
為什麼?
Magic Tree House是寫初小學生看的. 我估和同出版社的Dr Seuss深淺差不多. Dr Seuss 的我囡囡(k3)己看得明, 也可讀出聲(因為句字是rhyming的, 所以可以用來朗讀).
不過我無買過Magic Tree House, 所以 ...
星級國民：
基本上同意你在此論題中所講的主要觀點，不過，大概由於你及你的小朋友的英文太棒，可能你對香港學生的一般水平不怎樣了解。
以下是ChiChiPaPa提供的2006中三的TSA reading paper：
http://www.systemassessment.edu.hk/sec/2006sec-paper/S3Eng/2006_TSA_9ER1.pdf
全港中三學生做這份卷的平均成績是54分，看過這份卷後，你便可以知道香港中三學生的平均閱讀水平，相信你會大吃一驚。
今年年初，當我女兒還覺得Magic Tree House太深時，她已經做了這份中三試題，結果取得大約八十分，所以我知道Magic Tree House比中三的TSA是較深的。
到今天，女兒的英文有了一點兒的進步，開始覺得Picture Books太低B，已經開始看最淺易的Junior Fiction，而最喜歡的正是Magic Tree House。
天外有天，人外有人，小女的英文閱讀能力比起普通學生來說無疑是超班的，但比起真正的高手卻仍然是相差九條街。
eviepa
作者: easymum 時間: 07-12-13 09:21
eviepa,
可否請問您小孩現在讀幾年級？
easymum
原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-13 01:35 發表
星級國民：
基本上同意你在此論題中所講的主要觀點，不過，大概由於你及你的小朋友的英文太棒，可能你對香港學生的一般水平不怎樣了解。
以下是ChiChiPaPa提供的2006中三的TSA reading paper：
http://www.systemasses ...
作者: Mrssslui 時間: 07-12-13 09:29
eviepa,
Thks for sharing!
哪份中三TSA paper 真的很淺異,難怪難怪.
原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-13 01:35 發表
星級國民：
基本上同意你在此論題中所講的主要觀點，不過，大概由於你及你的小朋友的英文太棒，可能你對香港學生的一般水平不怎樣了解。
以下是ChiChiPaPa提供的2006中三的TSA reading paper：
http://www.systemasses ...
作者: 鳳梨 時間: 07-12-13 10:15
小朋友一睇開chapter books, 你再叫佢哋睇picture books, 佢哋真係會覺得幼稚
不過奇怪上到中學先開始睇"magic tree house", 咁小學時睇什麼書呢? 我覺得小一至小二應可以睇得明80%內容.
TSA個幾篇閱讀理解, 真係好淺吓, 同我哋本小二用既wide range差唔多, 我都要比囝囝做吓先
原文章由 eviepa 於 07-12-13 01:35 發表
星級國民：
基本上同意你在此論題中所講的主要觀點，不過，大概由於你及你的小朋友的英文太棒，可能你對香港學生的一般水平不怎樣了解。
以下是ChiChiPaPa提供的2006中三的TSA reading paper：
http://www.systemasses ...
[ 本文章最後由 鳳梨 於 07-12-13 10:23 編輯 ]
作者: nintendo 時間: 07-12-13 11:14
magic tree house 的確應該是給初小學生看的。
先前大家討論的 oxford reading tree 算係 reading 的 "入門版"，能讀 ort 至某個 level ( 能力高的孩子，其實不需要都讀晒 ort )，就可以開始選讀簡單的 chapter books。magic tree house 就是很好的選擇，其實故事很簡單的，每本 60+ 頁，其中加插很多大大的圖畫，字數因此其實很少；故事是說兩個小朋友去不同的時空的冒險故事，當然，其中加插一些資料性的內容。類似的書很多，一般這類 "進階" 的書本，可以算是讀 ort 這些 levelled reader，後的 "過度期" 讀物。國際學校初小的孩子都可以自行閱讀，當然間中都會有個別的字唔識讀，但在父母教正確讀音和意思後，可以很快學會。如果係本地學校的學生，我覺得初小都可以由家長從旁教導以閱讀，如果係高小，應該自行讀都冇問題。翻看， magic tree house 的書，你會看到其實大部份的字都唔深。這類薄薄的簡單的 chapter books，書的 size 和印刷方式，就像一本真正的 fiction，而唔係好似 ort 較像孩子書，小朋友讀 magic tree house 這類書，可以感受下讀一本 "書"，孩子一本 magic tree house 在手，一定會感到自己好似 "大個仔/女" 了。慢慢下來，孩子就有信心讀更長/厚的 chapter books；其實有較長/厚的書，不一定更難。
其實，每個孩子的能力不同，早前有人話佢孩子每天可以讀 3 本 200-500 頁的書 ( 1 年讀 1000 本 )，都引起一輪討論。自己孩子的能力，最好是自己測試一下，帶孩子到圖書館借來，或者三數十元買一本回來給他讀讀 ( 商務間中會有 $100 四本的特價 )，看看是否有很多字不會讀，如果真的很多，可以遲些再試讀。
每個人都有不同的能力，有 d 人數學叻，有 d 畫畫叻，有 d 游水叻。語文本身都包含好多野，很少人 (成人和小孩) 能是語文全才，聽寫讀講都好，即使係國際學校學生，甚至洋人孩子，都有講得流利，但讀/寫都差的；中國人也不是個個中文都好喇。我仔係國際學校學生，閱讀 (和理解) 能力高，但叫佢寫野，就帶你遊一個大花園都埋唔到尾；佢係寫作組織能力不好，表達能力亦較弱。因此，不需要覺得某本書，個個孩子都一定必然會讀，家長亦不需要奇怪為何人家的孩子那麼遜；如各下的孩子棒，恭喜你，但坦白說，如果本地學校小一能自行閱讀 magic tree house ( 要識讀晒 d 字，唔係靠估 )，始終唔係 norm。
多謝分享網站，完來有個官方評估網，今晚都比亞仔試做。
我覺得你提供的文章，應該比 magic tree house 深一點點。而且讀 magic tree house 基本上可以好 "不負擔任"，讀完就算，當然，可能媽媽會問問孩子內容，但都只是輕鬆的閒談。但做 assessment 就唔同，要乖乖的答問題，要分析文章，又唔可以大意寫錯串錯，講明係 assessment，當然唔似我地話比仔女 "玩玩" 的心情，話冇壓力就假。大家都知，其實學生的水平真的可以可參差，我認識的幾個讀 elite primary school 的小孩，英文真係好好，媽媽亦 aggressive，小一就要小朋友讀 charlie and the chocolate factory；當然，差的亦不少又是事實。
無論如何，我覺得中三份 assessment 真的對很多學生會係好容易，其實會唔會有不少學生是拿較高分呢，只是超低分的學生亦不少，因而拉低了平均分？我相信成績不會是 bell distribution 罷。
好奇問問，你覺得中文和數學的 assessment papers 合理嗎？
[ 本文章最後由 nintendo 於 07-12-13 17:24 編輯 ]
作者: easymum 時間: 07-12-13 11:57
好多謝大家給予的寶貴意見。我會嘗試讓小女看，但我見書局並不齊此套書，想請問哪裏買會比較齊及平宜？
作者: miffy 時間: 07-12-13 15:22
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作者: nintendo 時間: 07-12-13 17:22
原文章由 easymum 於 07-12-13 11:57 發表
好多謝大家給予的寶貴意見。我會嘗試讓小女看，但我見書局並不齊此套書，想請問哪裏買會比較齊及平宜？
香港零售計，商務書局的 $100 四本算是最平。
如果要再平，可以請學校代你向香港 scholastic book club 直接定購，但不是經常有特價定購的，我朋友在早幾個月前 ( 大概是 10 月 book club ) 向他們定了一整套 ( 也不是齊的，有大約廿多本 )，只是四百多港元，但近兩個月的 book club 已沒有這個超平特價了。
其實，也不必要買一整套，反正故事個個都獨立的，市面上有很多其他選擇，商務的 $100 四本特價書，很多也不錯。另外，圖書館也有呀，你可以去借一兩本，試試你女兒喜不喜歡看在說。
作者: eviepa 時間: 07-12-13 21:33
原文章由 easymum 於 07-12-13 09:21 發表
eviepa,
可否請問您小孩現在讀幾年級？
easymum
Now Primary 6
作者: eviepa 時間: 07-12-13 21:37
原文章由 nintendo 於 07-12-13 11:14 發表
好奇問問，你覺得中文和數學的 assessment papers 合理嗎？
未看過。
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