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標題: Myth of the bilingual Hongkonger [打印本頁]

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-6-7 13:00 標題: Myth of the bilingual Hongkonger

SCMP June 4

Myth of the bilingual Hongkonger

Richard Sheung sees complementary roles for English, Cantonese skills

RICHARD SHEUNG

PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 04 June, 2014, 1:34pm
UPDATED : Thursday, 05 June, 2014, 3:19am

Law Society president Ambrose Lam was widely criticised for refusing to give a sound bite in English. Photo: K. Y. Cheng
It is not without irony that English, or its avoidance and abuse, has been the cause of controversy recently.

First, the president of the Law Society, Ambrose Lam San-keung, flatly refused to oblige a reporter with a sound bite in English at a press conference. He was criticised for his lack of consideration, with some even calling into question his English language skills.

Then, there was lawmaker Christopher Chung Shu-kun, giving the American chief executive of the MTR Corporation a dressing-down in his broken English at the Legislative Council.

Chung's outburst, as much as Lam's silence, apparently touched a raw nerve with Hongkongers. Can both episodes be revealing of our love-hate relationship with English, and the gaps between our self-identity and reality?

Many of us were hurt, outraged even, because we thought we could and should do better. As an aspiring world city, we take unabashed pride in our colonial heritage and bilingual cosmopolitanism. If not every Hongkonger, then certainly those who are in positions of authority ought to be capable bilingual communicators.

Nonetheless, precisely because English has been a colonial language, an international education, though always at considerable public expense, was primarily for the benefit of expatriate children - never meant for anyone who wanted it. English was taught reasonably well only at the best local schools, and the most gifted students who have benefited have gone on to serve Hong Kong well.

In large part, however, the international face of Hong Kong has been built on the "bilingualism" of its colonial administrators and their top Chinese aides, each speaking mainly in their mother tongue.

It is easy to decry the avoidance or abuse of English, blaming misguided nativism, or "falling standards" since the British left. But the use of English as the first official language actually requires competencies that might be fine for its native speakers but not easily found among the Chinese, even in colonial Hong Kong.

The city is more known for being a homogeneous Cantonese speech community than any thoroughly anglicised one. English is not a language of choice for most locals in oral communication, except maybe to show off occasionally.

The interpretation service, available in Legco, should have helped to make Chung more easily understood. Indeed, simultaneous interpretation services can be usefully tapped for public events. It may make more sense for Hong Kong to be bilingual to the world through competent translation than continue with the myth of everyone being happily bilingual when, in reality, there is widespread reluctance to use our adopted language.

But the Hong Kong "international face" as we know it will wither if English continues to be either avoided or abused. The "bilingual" requirement of all senior appointments effectively disqualifies all but the locally educated with a good but not entirely confident command of English, although it is the first working language in government, academia and the professions.

Isn't it about time the rules were relaxed to make our city more inclusive and welcoming to international talent, who may be hired to fill senior positions? Together we can complement each other, linguistically and culturally, and remodel Hong Kong as the cosmopolitan city that it can be - free of the shadow of British colonialism.

Richard Sheung was a translator with the Hong Kong government before the handover. He teaches in the Department of Chinese, Translation and Linguistics at City University of Hong Kong

作者: Cheeselover 時間: 14-6-9 18:11 標題: 引用：SCMP+June+4 Myth+of+the+bilingual+Hongk

原帖由 shadeslayer 於 14-06-07 發表
SCMP June 4

Myth of the bilingual Hongkonger

People of HK have never had proficient English since the first day of British colony. Our English is enough for living merely, not for literal use. We are Chinese undoubtedly, our daily conversation is Cantonese and living under deep influence of traditional Chinese culture. However, the society requires high standard of English everywhere. If we carry out a study to Chinese, we'll observe the resistance of Chinese to culture infiltration by other civilizations. We could see somebody with outstanding English, but not for general public. We should not be ashamed of having rich of Chinese publishing and fair English standard in the society simultaneously. Singaporean is good in English and people speak well in Mandarin, but the written Chinese is horrible. When we're excessive emphasis on bilingual, it may obstruct the development of either one.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-6-9 21:32 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+shadeslayer+於+14-06-07+發

原帖由 Cheeselover 於 14-06-09 發表
People of HK have never had proficient English since the first day of British colony. Our English is ...

People of HK may indeed have never had proficient English since the first day of British colony. But judging the way English is deteriorating in H.K., soon we will be ashamed to call ourselves Asia's world city. Soon we will be losing regional jobs to Singapore, Malaysia or even India because we no longer have adequate English. Soon we will be another Shanghai, Shenzhen.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-6-9 21:34 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+Cheeselover+於+14-06-09+發

原帖由 shadeslayer 於 14-06-09 發表
People of HK may indeed have never had proficient English since the first day of British colony. Bu ...

do you know how many Singaporeans or Malaysian who have lousy written Chinese are making a decent living in China and HK?

作者: samchan2179 時間: 14-6-10 01:38 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+Cheeselover+於+14-06-09+發

原帖由 shadeslayer 於 14-06-09 發表
People of HK may indeed have never had proficient English since the first day of British colony. Bu ...

In my industry , we are losing regional jobs to Singaporeans, Mainland Chinese n even Malaysians n HK is becoming one of the Chinese city like Shenzhen soon.

作者: MrBeast 時間: 14-6-10 05:37

shadeslayer 發表於 14-6-9 21:32
Soon we will be losing regional jobs to Singapore, Malaysia or even India b...

Genetic company picked sz, google dropped their hk data centre. Emm, i think its already happening. When rmb starts to float and can be traded freely, shanghai will displace hk eventually.
What is the current gov doing about this? Do we have a strategy? God knows la

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-6-10 09:43 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+14-6-9+21:32+So

原帖由 MrBeast 於 14-06-10 發表
Genetic company picked sz, google dropped their hk data centre. Emm, i think its already happening. ...

declining English and continued spoonfeeding would only accelerate the trend.

作者: samchan2179 時間: 14-6-10 09:44 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+14-6-9+21:32+So

原帖由 MrBeast 於 14-06-10 發表
Genetic company picked sz, google dropped their hk data centre. Emm, i think its already happening. ...

No worry , we hv 10 billion mainland Chinese 同胞supporting us , 抓緊中國掘起的勢頭，加強力度推自油行，香港一定掂

作者: samchan2179 時間: 14-6-10 13:09 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+MrBeast+於+14-06-10+發表Gen

原帖由 samchan2179 於 14-06-10 發表
No worry , we hv 10 billion mainland Chinese 同胞supporting us , 抓緊中國掘起的勢頭，加強力度推自油 ...

報紙報道，張志剛話，無自由行，建屋長者津貼都受影響，所以一定要加大力度，集中搞好自由行。唔好分薄資源。全面普教所有科目，加強零售陪訓，此乃正道！

作者: samchan2179 時間: 14-6-10 13:10 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+14-6-9+21:32+So

原帖由 MrBeast 於 14-06-10 發表
Genetic company picked sz, google dropped their hk data centre. Emm, i think its already happening. ...

Our government has good strategy to make HK one of the cities of mainland china

作者: Artie 時間: 14-6-10 13:20

本帖最後由 Artie 於 14-6-10 13:37 編輯

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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-6-10 13:23 標題: 回覆：Myth of the bilingual Hongkonger

can we get back to the topic of bilingualism in H.K.?

作者: Cheeselover 時間: 14-6-10 18:20 標題: 回覆：Myth of the bilingual Hongkonger

The fading of English is an inevitable fact in HK since 1997. Asia's world city is government's propaganda that she actually did nothing in practice. We lose some jobs to other countries, but not for poor English. Businessmen eye on many factors, politic, labour cost, land cost, financial flexibility and the market, the most critical. Language is the least concern.
I've no idea how great the living of Singaporean or Malaysian in China, but I interest in how bright of linguistic literature output in those countries of bilingual. We find 張愛玲，沈從文，莫言，白先勇，村上春樹.... the writers of "mono-lingual". When people complain about the fading of English in HK, do they know 金庸，西西，也斯，李碧華，亦舒，董橋....Maybe, there are somebody famous in ASEAN, but I am sorry not reading their literary works so far.
HK is full of noise and nasty, our government is a lump of shit, but HK would not sink by the dying out of HKer.

作者: Cheeselover 時間: 14-6-10 18:34 標題: 回覆：Myth of the bilingual Hongkonger

Don't be fuss the problem, HK has no such myth, in the past, today and tomorrow.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-6-10 20:06

shadeslayer 發表於 14-6-10Ng 13:23
prior e gvack to the topic of bilingualism in H.K.?

I think it is embarassing for HK people, every single one of us, to learn English S rom kindergarten or earlier and yet the general standard is nothing to write home about. The author of this article said we should not pretend we are bilingual wheh we are not. We learn Engljsh for 15 years at least and we are not bilingual, a very depressing news.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-6-10 20:37

I have seen many jobs in H.K. being taken up by Caucasian, Singaporeans or Malaysian, mainly because of English.

H.K. has to define its long term language policy. it is actually OK to say H.K. no longer needs English, or regional jobs. but then we should abolish English as a official language of H.K., abolish all EMI schools, change the medium of instructions in Unis to Chinese, and start learning English from secondary school.

instead H.K. people spend such effort, time and money, on English, with NET and all that, from kindergarten, yet our ability in English as a society is a disgrace. That is the bit that is not making sense.

作者: Cheeselover 時間: 14-6-11 13:05 標題: 回覆：Myth of the bilingual Hongkonger

To meet the author's requirement of bilingual, I believe only few people (林 are entitled. Certainly, people could have different levels of requirement to English standard. Someone approves my capability of bilingual, but someone doesn't. I, even for the sake of my daughter, would not abolish all trials despite I cannot achieve something the best. You may question the useless of parents' effort on their kid's English, but it is actually better than nothing, I think. Perhaps, you here at their intention and reason of learning English. However, it is natural that we spend entire life/effort to do something meaningless and end up with nothing.

作者: hay.hay.ma. 時間: 14-6-13 09:51

hk is a city with bitter sweet history, complicated with current situation. and we're living at the tip of sharp cultural and language turns. but i believe it's just transitional. give it some time.

作者: NKpa 時間: 14-7-12 22:18

本帖最後由 NKpa 於 20-9-30 14:46 編輯

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作者: NKpa 時間: 14-7-12 22:19

本帖最後由 NKpa 於 20-9-30 14:46 編輯

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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-7-12 23:06

NKpa 發表於 14-7-12 22:18
The spoken English of our u grad is generally poorer than those 20 or 30 years ago, probably due to ...

I do not share your optimism as the number of parents who realize there is an issue and who choose to do something about it is only a fraction of the population.

作者: NKpa 時間: 14-7-12 23:42

本帖最後由 NKpa 於 20-9-30 14:46 編輯

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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-7-13 00:13 標題: 回覆：Myth of the bilingual Hongkonger

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 14-7-13 01:15 編輯

individuals have very little influence to anything. doing the best we can for our own children is one, keep participating in forum like this is something useful too.

作者: talknwrite 時間: 14-7-13 13:26

The key is why bother to speak English in daily life as your family and friends speak Cantonese. We just don't need English at all in our daily life. Just to "show off"

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-7-13 17:17

talknwrite 發表於 14-7-13 13:26
The key is why bother to speak English in daily life as your family and friends speak Cantonese. We ...

True, if you happen to require no English.

作者: NKpa 時間: 14-7-13 21:29

本帖最後由 NKpa 於 20-9-30 14:47 編輯

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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-7-14 20:07 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+NKpa+於+14-7-13+21:30+編輯+\

原帖由 NKpa 於 14-07-13 發表
本帖最後由 NKpa 於 14-7-13 21:30 編輯

In the colonial days, govt and large commercial firms all u ...

Do you still use English email all the time, I do?

Do you still read and write English paper and reports? I do. And find typical Hong Kong grammatical mistakes all the time. Even papers and reports to senior management.

作者: NKpa 時間: 14-7-14 20:45

本帖最後由 NKpa 於 20-9-30 14:46 編輯

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作者: bookreader 時間: 14-7-15 12:23

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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-7-15 21:12 標題: 引用：語文能力下降是全球現象，likely+because+o

原帖由 bookreader 於 14-07-15 發表
語文能力下降是全球現象，likely because of:
- 這幾十年的 communicative approach 教學
- 電子媒介興起， ...

香港是劣中之劣，because:
- communicative approach is more harming to non native English speakers

xxxx

何出此言？

作者: bookreader 時間: 14-7-16 10:25

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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 14-7-16 13:11 標題: 引用：回覆+shadeslayer+的帖子因為+native+Eng

原帖由 bookreader 於 14-07-16 發表
回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子

因為 native English speakers (假設在英美成長) 在日常生活不停接觸英文，學校 ...

在香港英文非常易接觸，課外完全和英文脫節，是家庭孩子自己的選擇。

作者: bookreader 時間: 14-7-16 22:45

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