教育王國

標題: Painting it RED in LS [打印本頁]

作者: jolalee 時間: 15-3-11 23:12 標題: Painting it RED in LS

http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/art/20150311/19071959

Sorry I'm quite out of touch when it comes to LS happenings.
Is this a common situation amongst local schools now?
Even in the Catholic/Christian prestigious school?

Seems like this "National Education" is seeping into various schools nowadays, not just the grass root government schools. Do you think this would make more parents run over to IS due to fear?

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 15-3-12 03:15

"中國中國是我的家" <-- those who sing this with a genuine heart can't be too happy in Hongkong, because Hongkong is (still) so different from China and therefore so unlike home.

"中國中國是我的媽媽" <-- those who sing this probably should get rid of his/her biological mother

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-12 12:20 標題: 回覆：Painting it RED in LS

I think we are being too sensitive.

Different provinces in China are very different in terms of life style and culture. These differences do not determine whether they are happy or not when singing "中國中國是我的家". Unless they don't think China is their home country.

Everybody should understand (even children) that it is metaphorical when we sing 中國中國是我的媽媽. After all, they are promoting sense of belonging to China, not communism.

I may not have all the facts yet but from what I saw, asking Hong Kong primary school children to sing songs like that during a themed month on China seems reasonable.

作者: dwide7 時間: 15-3-12 14:31

I don't see any problem with those songs. Bascially every nations in the world (including those so called democratic nations like US, UK, Canada) have their own kind of national education. It was only those yellow thiefs trying to 借題發揮.

作者: torunpoland 時間: 15-3-12 15:09 標題: 回覆：jolalee 的帖子

本帖最後由 torunpoland 於 15-3-12 15:38 編輯

愛國沒問題，國民教育本質也沒問題，問題在於：

（1）中國 = 黨？（這點每人看法不一，無謂拗）

（2）手法，眼有高低，技有優劣，硬推軟銷任君選擇，家長可受可不受，但稚子對母親的愛，是純潔無瑕、直接無彎、入血滲肺的，採用「中國」=「媽媽」，核突難看與否，見仁見智，但若非看中這個關係對孩子造成潛移默化影響之便，我就覺得這首歌寫得馬虎求其，說不上是甚麼好作品，遑論推介給小朋友。

（3）此曲只應天上有，何苦驟降聖心園？敢問校長老師為啥？

作者: torunpoland 時間: 15-3-12 15:13 標題: 回覆：torunpoland 的帖子

本帖最後由 torunpoland 於 15-3-12 15:37 編輯

樓主，我認為題目的paint 改為dye更適當。paint 有主動參與、創意之況味。而dye更顯出過程中diffusion 不受控制的隨機性。整條題我改為Dyeing LS in red（說多了，勿怪）

作者: yyevita 時間: 15-3-12 16:13

In English, we use the word motherland, so what's wrong with a metaphore? When complaine something, please check a dictionary first.

作者: jolalee 時間: 15-3-12 16:26

torunpoland 發表於 15-3-12 15:13
樓主，我認為題目的paint 改為dye更適當。paint 有主動參與、創意之況味。而dye更顯出過程中diffusion 不受 ...

Yeah, paint is removable, whereas dye is not. I like your theme title better ;)
(now how do i change it...)

作者: jolalee 時間: 15-3-12 16:33

From the feedback i'm getting so far, i guess the general public believe this is legitimate and parents are comfortable with National education? I am hoping it is (given the negative connotation this particular media group is imposing, it had me worried for a while). I am glad because i sure don't want LS parents flooding into IS simply due to this one particular fact.

作者: torunpoland 時間: 15-3-12 16:59

本帖最後由 torunpoland 於 15-3-12 17:00 編輯

孩子愛媽媽，是因為媽媽真係照顧得自己無微不至，真心地愛。

孩子要不要像愛媽媽一樣的愛某國？各有答案。

但是，反過來問，某國是不是真的跟媽媽一樣的愛自己？愛到一個地步要歌頌？孩子白紙一張，老師呢？

明喻隱喻暗喻借喻都是修辭手法，目的是令主體更立題。愛國沒問題，你有你立場，我有我墳場；國民教育也沒有問題，神農氏到毛主席總要認識，莫忘文革六四切記入世辦奧。問題是手法，手法是不是用得其所？小朋友咋佢地係！係咪咁植入先？

我承認我有觀點立場：一個毀滅幾千來的士大夫文化的政權，應該未有資格教我如何教仔女愛國。

網友說也許大家敏感。我認同，但認為此事上，寧敏莫缺。報紙為銷情有其商業理由(此報或有另外考慮也說不定)，但我認為家長應打醒精神，棒出肉已痛，槍拔血已流。寧可在家捕風捉影，不願廚房見到熟蛙。甚麼爭論都好，當我是過敏好了。

作者: Yanamami 時間: 15-3-12 17:30

jolalee 發表於 15-3-12 16:33
From the feedback i'm getting so far, i guess the general public believe this is legitimate and pare ...

都唔係想flood就flood既~~大不了多d人提早出国啫。其实又唔係好多LS係禁吖~起碼我女(一个小学—个中学)無呢d愛国举动｡

作者: Yanamami 時間: 15-3-12 17:34

yyevita 發表於 15-3-12 16:13
In English, we use the word motherland, so what's wrong with a metaphore? When complaine something, ...

其实呢个年头用homeland会唔会好d呢？費事俾人話性别歧視~

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 15-3-12 20:20

本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 15-3-12 20:22 編輯

shadeslayer 發表於 15-3-12 12:20
Different provinces in China are very different in terms of life style and culture. ...

This is valid, but then there are major and minor differences, and it is quite obvious that the differences between provinces within China are minor and that between Hongkong and China are major, perhaps similar to the differences between Singapore and China, that is why China students could feel very homesick in HK, and vice versa is also true.

Anyway, the extent of the differences and whether (to a native speaker) "motherland/fatherland" means the same as "mother/father" is all academic, the important point is what our friend jolalee had said earlier, if most HK parents aren't spooked by it, people like jolalee and I are glad indeed :)

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 15-3-12 20:34

本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 15-3-12 20:35 編輯

FattyDaddy 發表於 15-3-12 20:20
people like jolalee and I are glad indeed ...

On second thought, may be we should not be glad so soon, many Hongkongers are becoming wiser and picking up the behaviour of their cousins up North, 咀里說不, 身體卻很誠實, one only needs to look at where China-HK government officials and DAB party members are sending their children to study.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-12 21:03 標題: 回覆：Painting it RED in LS

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-12 21:10 編輯

From the news article, this is one of the monthly themed activities. Last month the theme could have been health, there might have been songs related to health, nobody complained. This month the theme is China, motherland. One song about China being the motherland and there are complaints and fears of brain washing?

Did anybody say JFK was brain washing American when he said "We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go .... And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you— ask what you can do for your country." - JFK.

I think this is not being cautious, this is paranoia.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-12 21:06 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+FattyDaddy+於+15-3-12+20:22+

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 15-03-12 發表
本帖最後由 FattyDaddy 於 15-3-12 20:22 編輯

Well, I suspect people in Shanghai , Szechuan, Tibet or just people who live on the mountain range have Major differences.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 15-3-12 21:23

shadeslayer 發表於 15-3-12 21:03
about China being the motherland ...

It is China being the mother, not motherland, the difference may be subtle, especially to non-native speakers.

Brits may sing "God save the queen", or "rule Britannia", but never "the queen is my mother" or "Britannia my mother" :)

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-12 21:35 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+15-3-12+21:03++

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 15-03-12 發表
It is China being the mother, not motherland, the difference may be subtle, especially to non-native ...

As i said, singing "China is my mother" is clearly metaphorical, a good one too imo. It is the land, the people, the heritage that define a country and who we are, including HK people. We in Hongkong have more exposure to the western culture but to deny China is to deny our roots.

I hate the behaviors of many mainland Chinese. I hate the ruling party and so much injustice and corruptions in the mainland. But I don't hate "China" because we have differences and I don't deny my roots. Call me naive.

作者: kkddmom 時間: 15-3-12 23:14 標題: 回覆：shadeslayer 的帖子

That's why the parents not opposing the "theme" but only this material, fear of propaganda.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 15-3-12 23:18

shadeslayer 發表於 15-3-12 21:35
But I don't hate "China" because we have differences and I don't deny my roots ...

You're reading too much into other people's posts, saying loving a person (mother) should not be mixed up with loving a place (motherland) is not suggesting anyone should hate anywhere or deny anything :)

作者: jolalee 時間: 15-3-13 09:27

本帖最後由 jolalee 於 15-3-13 09:31 編輯

Yanamami 發表於 15-3-12 17:30
都唔係想flood就flood既~~大不了多d人提早出国啫。 ...

Given the students in question here are primary school students (and quite young too given the song is a simple one), I doubt the parents can send those kids abroad at such an early age. So the alternatives are quite obvious if the parents are spooked.

I just reread the article and noticed an interesting point:
"嘉諾撒聖心...一址有兩校，被揭播放兒歌《中國是我家》是下午校及全日制部，屬於政府津貼小學；上午校則名為嘉諾撒聖心學校私立部，屬獨立私校。"

Sounds like the students who were exposed to this song (or theme even?) is the government subsidized section, and the private section is safe? What does that signify? (or am I reading into it too much?) Yanamami is your LS child in a private or subsidized school? Just wanna cross compare accurately.

Does fellow parents here think that private LS is more sheltered from possible Nationalistic propaganda? (if there indeed is any). In which case, LS parents top choice would probably be private LS instead of IS, leaving the IS culture safe, more or less.

作者: Mighty 時間: 15-3-13 13:20

点解成日都要講根在中国、我覚得我自己根在香港、不管你説香港只是一個城市、這裏是我的基盤！愛国情操不是迫出来、睇個人大会議、成班点頭人瑞、囲埋一枱、真係OMG！！如果説我太敏感、就敏感総好過発生左都吾知。

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-13 14:26 標題: 引用：点解成日都要講根在中国、我覚得我自己根在

原帖由 Mighty 於 15-03-13 發表
点解成日都要講根在中国、我覚得我自己根在香港、不管你説香港只是一個城市、這裏是我的基盤！愛国情操不是 ...

Most of the Hong Kong population came from China a few generations ago. Japanese occupation did not make us Japanese and British colonization certainly did not make us British. Where do we get our genes and culture? British colonization changed us a lot but can we deny our Chinese origin? I can't.

作者: poonseelai 時間: 15-3-13 14:48 標題: 回覆：Painting it RED in LS

作為中國人，我覺得識唱國歌已足夠，要小朋友唱中國民謠，學習中國文化，有好多多選擇。其實你越熟悉中國歷史，你越會不滿今日中國，一國國民是應該認識自己國家歷史，但認識並不等同一定要歌頌。今日羅范話大學生應要回國學習最少一個學期，如入職做老師前都要

作者: HKTHK 時間: 15-3-13 14:56

認識中國和愛國都冇問題, 問題係共產黨將中國同黨畫上等號

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-13 15:13 標題: 引用：認識中國和愛國都冇問題,+問題係共產黨將中

原帖由 HKTHK 於 15-03-13 發表
認識中國和愛國都冇問題, 問題係共產黨將中國同黨畫上等號

But the children song did not mention anything about political parties. Why is it a problem?

作者: HKTHK 時間: 15-3-13 15:16

回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子

I didn't say it was a problem

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-13 15:17 標題: 引用：作為中國人，我覺得識唱國歌已足夠，要小朋

原帖由 poonseelai 於 15-03-13 發表
作為中國人，我覺得識唱國歌已足夠，要小朋友唱中國民謠，學習中國文化，有好多多選擇。其實你越熟悉中國歷 ...

Listening to the Chinese national anthem about slavery, sacrificing and fighting for the China is NOT brainwashing? Not national education? And listening to children songs about China is the homeland and China is my mother IS a problem? Is national education and is not appropriate? What is the logic in this?

作者: Mighty 時間: 15-3-13 15:41

shadeslayer 發表於 15-3-13 14:26
Most of the Hong Kong population came from China a few generations ago. Japanese occupation did not ...

I wonder if China was still a poor country like 50 years ago, will one still try his/her best to find the linking/origin etc?

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 15-3-13 16:37

shadeslayer 發表於 15-3-13 15:17
and China is my mother IS a problem ...

Well, I do think it is a problem to suggest a place is your mother, metaphorically or otherwise. To adults like us it may be purely a metaphor, but to primary school children? If we think it is OK to say "XXX is your mother", we're on the slippery slope to 爹親娘親不如XXX親

However, like I said before, if most HK parents are not spooked by this, that is in fact good news for people like me and some others :)

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-13 19:40 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+15-3-13+14:26+M

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-13 20:31 編輯

原帖由 Mighty 於 15-03-13 發表
I wonder if China was still a poor country like 50 years ago, will one still try his/her best to fin ...

Jesus Christ, what does money got to do with ancestry!

I have always been quite impressed with the quality discussions here, which often show breath and depth of knowledge, razor sharp logic, sometimes with passion and compassion, etc. Not today.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-13 19:43 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+15-3-13+15:17+a

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-13 20:28 編輯

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 15-03-13 發表
Well, I do think it is a problem to suggest a place is your mother, metaphorically or otherwise. To ...

we're on the slippery slope to 爹親娘親不如XXX親

Cxxxxx

This is purely your imagination.

If the song was "爹親娘親不如XXX親", I would have taken to the streets too.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 15-3-13 21:20

shadeslayer 發表於 15-3-13 19:43
This is purely your imagination

Oh it was dead real in China not that long ago, and Hongkong was narrowly spared.

作者: Mighty 時間: 15-3-13 21:29

shadeslayer 發表於 15-3-13 19:40
Jesus Christ, what does money got to do with ancestry!

Calm down please. 'One' isnt necessarily be you. I am just saying it in general.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-13 22:43 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+15-3-13+19:43+T

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-13 23:05 編輯

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 15-03-13 發表
Oh it was dead real in China not that long ago, and Hongkong was narrowly spared.

We all know what happen in China. Not proud of it, but we know. Please stick to the actual Sacred Heart case, or else we will be here discussing the topic in 2017. If you knew they actually ask the kids to sing 「爹親娘親不及XXX親」，tell me and I will go to the streets with you tomorrow.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-13 23:03

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-14 00:01 編輯

Mighty 發表於 15-3-13 21:29
Calm down please. 'One' isnt necessarily be you. I am just saying it in general.

I did not say your statement was directed to me. I was outraged not because your statement was directed to me. I was outraged because your statement was absurd.

Where do we learn our language we use everyday? Why do we celebrate Chinese New Year? Where do we learn to burn incense sticks to pay homage to our ancestors? Why do we give out money In red packets at CNY? Or eat moon cakes and moon watching in mid autumn?

We do these things because they are what our ancestors do, not because someone wants to link their roots to a rich country like China. By the way, I don't think China is rich. Have you checked their GDP per capita?

How would anyone benefit materially from "linking" their roots to China?

If someone advocate HK to become a independent state, I would have been ok as it is someone's personal opinion. But to deny ancestral roots is to deny facts, deny history. Something I don't understand.

作者: 木子兔媽媽 時間: 15-3-13 23:06 標題: 回覆：jolalee 的帖子

Back to the last question first post by Jolalee, the answer is yes. So sad.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-13 23:12 標題: 引用：Back+to+the+last+question+first+post+by+

原帖由 木子兔媽媽 於 15-03-13 發表
Back to the last question first post by Jolalee, the answer is yes. So sad.

How can you be so sure the answer is yes?

If this particular case "caused" a major influx of students to IS, I would say HK people has lost their sanity and become irrational. Which we have seen recently on TV; old people and kids were being targeted and abused.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 15-3-13 23:43

shadeslayer 發表於 15-3-13 22:43
If you knew they actually ask the kids to sing 「爹親娘親不及XXX親」，tell me and I will go to the streets with you tomorrow. ...

I don't think you understood what I wrote, which was ... "If we think it is OK to say "XXX is your mother", we're on the slippery slope to 爹親娘親不如XXX親".

That means we're not at the stage of "爹親娘親不如XXX親" today, but if we think nothing of "XXX is your mother", it will be easy to slip towards that end. You don't have to agree, but that is hardly my imagination, because we saw it happened for real in China not that long ago, they didn't start with "爹親娘親不如XXX親" from day 1 either.

It seems you are back to your bickering old self again, so I'm going to stop here since I've said more or less all I wanted to say on this topic.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-13 23:55

FattyDaddy 發表於 15-3-13 23:43
I don't think you understood what I wrote, which was ... "If we think it is OK to say "XXX is your m ...

I mean "that" happening in a HK school is your imagination. Also I did not say it was not possible in HK. I am saying if this is really happening in HK, I will take the fight on the street. But before that happens worrying about it does not translate to something you can do to prevent "this" from happening. Certainly changing schools because the same thing happened in China and there is a chance that it happens in HK is just paranoia and not living your life.

I am not picking a fight. I never pick fights for the sake of fighting. Certain things still turn me on, that is all.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 15-3-14 00:00

shadeslayer 發表於 15-3-13 23:55
I mean "that" happening in a HK school is your imagination ...

Nope, because it happened for real in China not that long ago, and judging from the direction in which HK is going, it is entirely possible for it to happen in HK.

Of course, you can brand any kind of inferencing as imagination because there is no certainty that it will or will not happen, that is what I call bickering.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-14 00:21 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+15-3-13+23:55+I

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 15-03-14 發表
Nope, because it happened for real in China not that long ago, and judging from the direction in whi ...

Not all inferences are equal. Some are more reasonable and some are irrational.

作者: jolalee 時間: 15-3-14 04:07

本帖最後由 jolalee 於 15-3-14 04:15 編輯

木子兔媽媽發表於 15-3-13 23:06
Back to the last question first post by Jolalee, the answer is yes. So sad.

Last question in my first post:
Seems like this "National Education" is seeping into various schools nowadays, not just the grass root government schools. Do you think this would make more parents run over to IS due to fear?

******

By discussion so far we have concluded:
1) This is possibly just paranoia from one school and the media, and probably not the entire LS system is under attack.
2) LS parents would more likely to head for LS private schools first before choosing IS.

If you do see any examples that is contrary to the discussion we have so far, i'd love to hear of it. Thanks!

作者: torunpoland 時間: 15-3-14 08:05

本帖最後由 torunpoland 於 15-3-14 08:10 編輯

至今在EK最多聽到都只係「我唔討厭中國」吧？！自問說不出「我愛中國」，因為此話的感情十分複雜，有恨鐵不成鋼的悲情和無奈和怨嘆。我不敢說對中國好了解，因為1949年之後的事變化太大，而且影響猶在，很難一兩句便定奪了解或不了解。但可以說，我對中國文學的都略有認識，若論感情不會算少。或者，我認識的中國，來自文學世界的中國吧，帶有浪漫和想像，一與現實世界的比較難免失望，所以說不出「我愛中國」。說不出這一句，不代表「我否認我是中國人」，相反，「我是中國人」是不可否認的，但我就是說不出「我愛中國」。即使「我愛中國」也不需透過唱頌那首歌去表達吧？若認為沒問題，很好，相信令千金令郎就讀國際學校可以幸免於此。我認為有問題（就當我出於多疑過慮，捕風捉影，草木皆兵），難免為香港教育前途憂心。這是我的城市呀。我知道，香港屬中國領土不可分割的一部份。
雖云亡羊補牢未為晚也（我不同意），但既有前車可鑑，何不防患未然？

作者: Mighty 時間: 15-3-14 10:34

本帖最後由 Mighty 於 15-3-14 10:45 編輯

torunpoland 發表於 15-3-14 08:05
至今在EK最多聽到都只係「我唔討厭中國」吧？！自問說不出「我愛中國」，因為此話的感情十分複雜，有恨鐵不 ...

You are my hero.　　自問不能写出楼主的文章、但文章内容正是我要説的。楼上有人説we are denying history....其実最懂否定歴史的又是誰？　尽在不言中。

就譲覚得唱那些肉麻歌的没問題継続唱下去、我慶幸我自己不用唱、小朋友也（暫時）不用

又説到培養愛国情懐、不用媽前媽後、也行。　記得小学時唱過的「在那遙遠的地方」、曲調、歌詞、意境非常有意義、対我来説、是曲線培養了対中国的一種思念呢。

作者: DreamKid 時間: 15-3-14 11:00 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+torunpoland+於+15-3-14+08:10

原帖由 torunpoland 於 15-03-14 發表
本帖最後由 torunpoland 於 15-3-14 08:10 編輯

至今在EK最多聽到都只係「我唔討厭中國」吧？！自問說不 ...

我很喜歡中國既文化和歷史，但只到於1949年以前。我既父母親身經歷文化大革命。我常想為何中國人要有如悲慘歷史。有些人話今日既中共巳經不同。我真的不這麼認為。你看看微信上既歌功頌德文章，把習近平和他的夫人說得神一般。這是一個什麼樣的中國？

作者: caa 時間: 15-3-14 11:30

美國人也有歌頌大美國主義，但人家的總統政客本身及孩子都是上自己國家的學校，學習自己的文化價值，中國的卻爭着送孩子去英國去美國上學，還要是鬼鬼崇崇的送。在孩子未能完全理解歷史文化，甚至比喻等等時，怎能簡單地強要單純的孩子歌頌「中國」是媽媽？

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-14 11:44 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+Mighty+於+15-3-14+10:45+編輯

原帖由 Mighty 於 15-03-14 發表
本帖最後由 Mighty 於 15-3-14 10:45 編輯

楼上有人説we are denying history....其実最懂否定歴史的又是誰？　尽在不言中

Xxxxx

一個人忘唔忘本，承唔承認自己的基因及生活習慣是那裏來的是自己的事，要看別人？有趣。

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-14 12:08 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+torunpoland+於+15-3-14+08:10

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-14 12:13 編輯

原帖由 torunpoland 於 15-03-14 發表
本帖最後由 torunpoland 於 15-3-14 08:10 編輯

至今在EK最多聽到都只係「我唔討厭中國」吧？！自問說不 ...

我是一個 head over heart 的人，凡事皆想找出事實，分析，確立原則，規則，別人的思路。有時會給人冷冰冰的感覺，或撩交嗌，其實不然。

言歸正傳，此事最搞不通的，就是為甚麼大部份家長對學校用普通話教唱國歌，歌詞有砲火，戰爭，有為國犧牲的意味又ok，但有一學校，在中國主題月，唱多一隻兒歌比喻中國為媽媽，為家，大家便一齊起哄。

一個人或民族的根源，是有事實根據，學校教學生唱歌，認識這根源，無可厚非，甚至是應該做的事。因為這是事實，是歷史。一個人「源」自父母，源自家，一個民族社群源自甚麼？兒歌的比喻有沒有過份，大家心裏有數。

認識和接受自己的根源，和愛國與否，是兩回事。每日也有人脫離中國藉，移居外國，沒有問題。但移民後，中國人的根源也是中國，不會改變。

究竟我們在防甚麼？為了防止灌輸愛國情懷，便不許學校教導認識根源？其實灌輸愛國情懷又是否洪水猛獸？有愛國情懷和獨立思考是兩回事。國父孫中山先生是否愛國，是否能獨立思考？

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-14 12:28 標題: 引用：美國人也有歌頌大美國主義，但人家的總統政

原帖由 caa 於 15-03-14 發表
美國人也有歌頌大美國主義，但人家的總統政客本身及孩子都是上自己國家的學校，學習自己的文化價值，中國的 ...

讓孩子接受外國教育的人沒資格談愛國？

美國孩子往英國讀書的，不能談愛國？

英國孩子往中國讀書的，不能談愛國？

法國孩子往德國讀書的，不能談愛國？

印度非洲孩子到發達國家讀書的，不能談愛國？

這思路等如説孩子不在自己學校讀的人沒資格辦教育，或不在自己餐廳食飯的人沒資格辦餐廳。

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-14 12:36 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+torunpoland+於+15-03-14+發

原帖由 DreamKid 於 15-03-14 發表
我很喜歡中國既文化和歷史，但只到於1949年以前。我既父母親身經歷文化大革命。我常想為何中國人要有如悲慘 ...

媽媽有壞習慣，衰到無人有，也是生母，這點任何人，或神，也不能改變。當然，個人可以選擇脫離關係，兩不相欠，但不能改變是媽媽的事實。歌詞唱XX是家，是媽媽，不在乎XX是好是壞。

作者: caa 時間: 15-3-14 12:44

本帖最後由 caa 於 15-3-14 12:55 編輯

回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子

我只能代表自己說話，我會教自己的孩子愛自己的家，但不會要孩子不知所云地說或唱愛「中國」。我希望孩子長大能夠自己判斷自己的家在哪。
還有，句式parallel 不等同推論正確。

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-14 12:55 標題: 引用：回覆+shadeslayer+的帖子我只能代表自己

原帖由 caa 於 15-03-14 發表
本帖最後由 caa 於 15-3-14 12:55 編輯

回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子

還有，句式parallel 不等同推論正確。

Xxxxx

請說明不正確的地方是甚麼。否則不是討論，是自説自話。要自說自話，不用來EK，在家也可以。

作者: caa 時間: 15-3-14 13:24

事實上，去人地的國家學人地的語言、歷史、文化，真的是很難談得上是愛國。強國有歷史悠久的北大、凊華不讀，甚至要小至中學就送去外國，斷估美國的中學不會有中國歷史讀？另以我僅有所知，美國英國的presidents or prime ministers 都是在美、英受教育，其他國家甚至非洲就唔知啦，亦唔敢罔下判斷

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-14 14:12 標題: 引用：事實上，去人地的國家學人地的語言、歷史、

原帖由 caa 於 15-03-14 發表
事實上，去人地的國家學人地的語言、歷史、文化，真的是很難談得上是愛國。強國有歷史悠久的北大、凊華不讀 ...

明白，即係，不認同國家現在某事物，另謀方法，便不能談愛國家？

不認同媽媽某行為，不全盤接受媽媽教導，另謀教導，便不能談愛媽媽。

作者: DreamKid 時間: 15-3-14 14:30 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+DreamKid+於+15-03-14+發表我

原帖由 shadeslayer 於 15-03-14 發表
媽媽有壞習慣，衰到無人有，也是生母，這點任何人，或神，也不能改變。當然，個人可以選擇脫離關係，兩不相 ...

歌詞中既「中國」係指在中共政權下既中國。我真係叫唔出媽媽。

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-14 14:48 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+shadeslayer+於+15-03-14+發

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-14 14:57 編輯

原帖由 DreamKid 於 15-03-14 發表
歌詞中既「中國」係指在中共政權下既中國。我真係叫唔出媽媽。

愛不愛中國，大家有自由。但說歌詞中的「中國」，只代表「中共管治下的現代中國」，甚至歌詞中的中國是指黨，是有根據的嗎？

其實即使「中共管治下的現代中國」，亦即係五千年中國文化慮積下來的結果。

作者: caa 時間: 15-3-14 14:55

本帖最後由 caa 於 15-3-14 14:58 編輯

點評

jolalee "Obama's raised in Indonesia."

Obama went to occidental college then Columbia then Harvard. I think he only spent a few early years in Indonesia. He was in Indonesia because his mother remarried an Indonesian so Obama was brought there but not because his mother thought Indonesia 's education is good for Obama

作者: caa 時間: 15-3-14 15:04

回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子

這不是某「一些」而是連自己國家的基本思想價值：語言、文化、歷史都不去學習，卻要去學人家的思想價值，如何叫愛國？
領導的女兒跟人家的總統是校友呢！

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-14 15:28 標題: 引用：回覆+shadeslayer+的帖子這不是某「一些

原帖由 caa 於 15-03-14 發表
回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子

這不是某「一些」而是連自己國家的基本思想價值：語言、文化、歷史都不去學習， ...

一些，是指教育。

基本思想價值：語言、文化、歷史和家庭無關？

作者: caa 時間: 15-3-14 16:00

回覆 shadeslayer 的帖子

Don't understand your point and I'm lost. Further discussion may be meaningless. Anyway going to us or UK necessarily means boarding and away from the family. So people sending kids to another country just implies that he/she almost entirely believes in and endorse the other country's value. And the case before our eyes is that the people sending kids elsewhere are in control of and have the power to change the country's policy...

作者: Yanamami 時間: 15-3-14 17:12

本帖最後由 Yanamami 於 15-3-14 17:12 編輯

羅范要準教師北上培訓咪又係離譜，太过份啦！

作者: DreamKid 時間: 15-3-14 17:13 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+shadeslayer+於+15-3-14+14:57

原帖由 shadeslayer 於 15-03-14 發表
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-14 14:57 編輯

如果這真是你的想法，我真是覺得好可怕

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-14 19:29

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-14 19:37 編輯

DreamKid 發表於 15-3-14 17:13
如果這真是你的想法，我真是覺得好可怕

這是客觀事實，沒有我的想法或判斷在內。我也沒有說這是好不好。

作者: CaCa800 時間: 15-3-14 19:30 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+Mighty+於+15-3-14+10:45+編輯

原帖由 Mighty 於 15-03-14 發表
本帖最後由 Mighty 於 15-3-14 10:45 編輯

我小學時只記得老師教過一首"龍的傳人", 對我來說已經沒有什麼印象，但仍然記得自己不太喜歡此歌。我覺得這不是一首小朋友會聽得明白同理解的歌曲。老師叫我們唱就要唱，冇得say no。對不起！有點離題。

作者: 964000 時間: 15-3-14 21:51 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+Mighty+於+15-03-14+發表本帖

原帖由 CaCa800 於 15-03-14 發表
我小學時只記得老師教過一首"龍的傳人", 對我來說已經沒有什麼印象，但仍然記得自己不太喜歡此歌。我覺得這 ...

龍的傳人有文化品味過呢首＂媽媽聲＂好多喎，如我女唱龍的傳人我反而吾介意。

作者: jolalee 時間: 15-3-14 22:43

964000 發表於 15-3-14 21:51
龍的傳人有文化品味過呢首＂媽媽聲＂好多喎，如我女唱龍的傳人我反而吾介意。

...

Actually, Caca has a point there. Materials we find tasteful may not be age appropriate for our kids. Personally I like the song 龍的傳人, but if that means to our kids it is just 老師叫我們唱便要唱，then no value has been instilled in our kids. My son's teacher in his IS actually played them 小蘋果 by 筷子兄弟！I didn't know about it until one day my 4 year old was humming along with the radio! I then Googled up this song (which was unknown to me until then) and downloaded the music. Now he can sing (part of) the song happily in Mandarin, and it left on him a positive impression in regards to Chinese learning.
Anyhow this thread is not on mandarin acquisition :) I guess we should be glad the school nor China is wise enough to make engaging nationalism propaganda materials for our kids. That song in question was plain boring and droning... Don't think any kid would like it.

作者: AJW2010 時間: 15-3-14 23:19 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+shadeslayer+於+15-3-13+20:28

原帖由 shadeslayer 於 15-03-13 發表
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-13 20:28 編輯

You don't need to bring it to street. Just need to bring to the school. It is the school problem, no need to make it a social problem for others to 公審！

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-15 02:09 標題: 回覆：Painting it RED in LS

There is one kind of loving a country that is beyond the current ruling parties, beyond the corruptions and dictatorship, beyond the civic maturity and selfishness of their fellow countryman. One kind of love that embodies 5 thousand years of civilization, generations of ancestors before us. One kind of love that does not fade as soon as we see something that we are ashamed of happening in the country.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 15-3-15 03:48

shadeslayer 發表於 15-3-15 02:09
There is one kind of loving a country that is beyond the current ruling parties, beyond the corrupti ...

Yawn, you're repeating yourself, what other people are saying is, no matter how much you love that place, it is NOT the same kind of love as loving a person, especially your mother. You are missing the point totally.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-15 08:15

People kept saying they cannot "love" China because of all these recent terrible things happening in China. I don't disagree. It pains me to see the corruptions, injustice and tragedies in China. It pains me to realize that this is "one" of the dark times of China's history. BUT, I am saying there is a kind of love that is beyond all these atrocities. The kind of love that leaves a tiny ray of hope, in my life time or not.

The point is, comparing this kind of love that I just described to a mother's love in the song IS adequate.

May be we both missed the point. It is just a song.

After all, artists compare different kinds of love to different things. That is what song writers do. Some say no love can be compared to mother's love literally. I say a song is expression of emotions and mood, and is an art form which very often cannot and should not be taken literally.

Love is a piano dropped from a fourth story window

I finally found you, my missing puzzle piece.

情愛就好像一串夢

Arguing over if we can compare love to a piano, a puzzle piece or a dream is futile and missing the point.

Of course anyone can disagree and say that kind of motherly love should not be compared to anything in a song.

You actually brought up the strongest argument around here which no one can disagree. This song may not be that bad per se, but the beginning of something much more terrible. No one can rule that out because it is future tense.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-15 12:48

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-15 12:51 編輯

點評

FattyDaddy Still repeating [color=#999999 !important]發表於 1 小時前

Xxxx

Interesting, you repeatedly pointed out something "you" regard as repeats.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 15-3-15 13:20

shadeslayer 發表於 15-3-15 12:48
you repeatedly pointed out something "you" regard as repeats

Hmm, I regard? So you don't think you're repeating?

Fine, dwell on it then :)

作者: bebemuimui 時間: 15-3-15 14:04 標題: 回覆：FattyDaddy 的帖子

Hi FattyDaddy,

I agree with you.
I think it is rather inappropriate to ask the young kids to link up mother and China.
I am living in Quarry Bay. Quarry Bay is my mother. Quarry bay is coming strong. Oh, give me a break.

If China is your mum, why don't u put the kids to Beijing and let them drink the milk, eat the food and expose to clean air from your mum?

Be honest to yourself. Walk the talk.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-15 16:23 標題: 引用：Hi+FattyDaddy, I+agree+with+you.+ I+thi

原帖由 bebemuimui 於 15-03-15 發表
Hi FattyDaddy,

I agree with you.

Is it like this, "mother" gave birth to you, brought you up, fed you and educated you. Now she is old, has bad temper, corruption and stinky breath, you now want to cut any ties to "mother"? And you don't even want to be reminded of existence of "mother"?

作者: bebemuimui 時間: 15-3-15 16:47 標題: 回覆：shadeslayer 的帖子

I have just one mother

作者: Yanamami 時間: 15-3-15 17:58

生娘不及養娘大？生娘為買白粉將个仔賣俾一户人家，人家悉心湊大个仔，而家生娘見个仔事業有成，要攞番个仔？但个仔十分不孝，从來只知養佢育佢既養娘，对生娘毫無記憶同感情……好似粵語場片~

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-15 19:02 標題: 引用：生娘不及養娘大？生娘為買白粉將个仔賣俾一

原帖由 Yanamami 於 15-03-15 發表
生娘不及養娘大？生娘為買白粉將个仔賣俾一户人家，人家悉心湊大个仔，而家生娘見个仔事業有成，要攞番个仔 ...

That is actually fine. But to deny the existence of the biological mother is inability to accept reality.

作者: Mighty 時間: 15-3-15 19:37

I dont think anyone here is denying the existing of a so called biological mother...but we are saying that we cant relate that as our 'real mother' and say hey I love you. Got it?

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 15-3-15 22:00 標題: 引用：I+dont+think+anyone+here+is+denying+the+

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 15-3-15 22:25 編輯

原帖由 Mighty 於 15-03-15 發表
I dont think anyone here is denying the existing of a so called biological mother...but we are sayin ...

It is you who don't get it. I have said it is ok for individuals to deny a country, to immigrate, to decide cutting ties with one's biological mother. These all are individual choices. This very topic was about Sacred Heart as a school community, should teach our kids to know our "mother/motherland", or should it teach our kids to ditch it, in the theme-of-the-month named "China". Did the school do terrible things to the students? Honestly?

Some say there is a subtle difference between mother and motherland. Of course they are not the same but guess why English use the word motherland? What is the connotation of motherland? Why form a word with two words "mother" and "land"? What is it trying to imply?

作者: CaCa800 時間: 15-3-15 22:24 標題: 引用：生娘不及養娘大？生娘為買白粉將个仔賣俾一

原帖由 Yanamami 於 15-03-15 發表
生娘不及養娘大？生娘為買白粉將个仔賣俾一户人家，人家悉心湊大个仔，而家生娘見个仔事業有成，要攞番个仔 ...

呢個比喻好貼切！對於出生於英國管治下的我而言，對生母真的沒有太多感情。中學時有好多親友和同學移民外國，大家都好像怕了跟回自己生母。沒能力移民的人又希望養母不要走。只可惜生母派來照顧大家的姐姐又一個差過一個，都唔知點算好。如果我一出世已經在生母的地方成長及接受教育，可能我會好愛我的生母。

歡迎光臨教育王國 (/)