教育王國

標題: 新聞透視 --- 學位有多荒 [打印本頁]

作者: sagesage 時間: 13-12-13 16:49 標題: 新聞透視 --- 學位有多荒

本帖最後由 sagesage 於 13-12-15 10:19 編輯

新聞透視 --- 學位有多荒

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9 ... AJn9ZW7QTBubiT3OiHQ

http://mytv.tvb.com/news/newsmagazine/165986#page-1

近年不少外國商會投訴本港國際學校學額不足，削弱競爭力，來港經商或工作的外籍人士，難以為子女尋找學位而卻步。政府近幾年亦做出回應，批出多幅土地及分配空置校舍，予國際學校辦學團體擴展或開新學校。過去五個學年，合共增加了3600個國際學校學額，學位多了但仍不足以應付需求，教育局早前委託顧問做的研究顯示，到2016/17學年，本港將欠缺四千多個國際學校小學學額。

目前，就讀於國際學校的，除了外來工作、經商的外國人和本地外籍人士子女外，亦有不少本地家庭的子女，過去十年，人數更有上升趨勢，到底是什麼原因？他們是否令國際學校學位更緊張？又應否嚴格限制國際學校招收本地學生的比例？對於辦學團體而言，是否有更大誘因招收本地學生？

此外，現時全港國際學校加起來，有四千多個餘額，即有約一成學位沒人就讀，但一邊廂，不少國際學校則大排長龍，出現錯配的原因是什麼？是否通過政府不斷批地，就能解決問題？要建多少國際學校才足以應付需求？鄰近國家的做法又如何，是否有值得參考之處？

記者：宋紫晧
2013.12.12

作者: WYmom 時間: 13-12-13 17:43

本帖最後由 WYmom 於 13-12-13 17:46 編輯

What the English teacher Wendy said was very true, IS also have lots of work for students, especially IB, only that teachers won't teach by distributing notes. Students have to do research and write notes themselves. So students in fact have to do more work, but they learn better in this way as they rely more on themselves and are trained to think and work independently with more self confidence. But for lazy students, they can fail badly.

作者: himching 時間: 13-12-13 18:15

個女未讀IS時, 一直以為讀IS比較輕鬆, 其實IS都好多嘢做, 不過大多數係上課時做完, 比較少帶回家做, 家長返到屋企以為佢地好hea. 先前本人提過, 讀IS要有好成績都會好似LS學生死讀難讀, 不過就中學開始, 小學比較著重建立行為習慣為主.

作者: himching 時間: 13-12-13 18:17

另外, 重有過誤解係, 讀IS, 都會為如何讀好中文煩惱, 情況如讀LS, 都要補英文一樣.

作者: SaBB 時間: 13-12-13 20:54 標題: 回覆：sagesage 的帖子

現時全港國際學校加起來，有四千多個餘額?
很想知那些國際學校重有位？呢四千多個from where?

作者: Miamama818 時間: 13-12-13 22:22 標題: 回覆：新聞透視 --- 學位有多荒

its pretty clear the point is local parents have lost faith in the local curriculum and system. i totally agree with the two sets of parents at the beginning of the program. its because IS focus on the "software" of the education and not the "hardware" = exam scores, how many words they can memorised, etc. these are "easy" ways to measure the kids and ignoring the strength and issue in your kids' journey of education.

作者: Miamama818 時間: 13-12-13 22:24 標題: 回覆：新聞透視 --- 學位有多荒

until the HKGov education board can come out with a sensitive solution to this point, rather than keep changing the system, the issue of international school spot shortage will NEVER be resolved and HK will keep loosing its competitiveness.

作者: victoryu19 時間: 13-12-13 22:29

Miamama818 發表於 13-12-13 22:22
its pretty clear the point is local parents have lost faith in the local curriculum and system. i to ...

Agreed!
Lots of people have lost faith in HK's education system.

作者: poonseelai 時間: 13-12-13 23:11

回覆 SaBB 的帖子

節目中講韓國國際有D學位只留給韓國人，因韓國政府有資助

作者: ckwliu 時間: 13-12-13 23:57 標題: 回覆：poonseelai 的帖子

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作者: poonseelai 時間: 13-12-14 00:13

ckwliu 發表於 13-12-13 23:57
Korean, French, German, Japanese, Jewish, Singapore etc. have a total of 4000 extra spaces?? It soun ...

節目無講有幾多學位是只留給幾國國民，我估中學高年班會有多D extra學位, 可能少D人會在高中才插班，現在小學競爭最激烈，just my two cents

作者: ckwliu 時間: 13-12-14 00:16 標題: 回覆：poonseelai 的帖子

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作者: poonseelai 時間: 13-12-14 08:55

ckwliu 發表於 13-12-14 00:16
Yes I think mostly it's for the primary kids. The older ones can go to boarding schools. Honestly, i ...

當然啦，現在回看我小時候的小學教育真的很輕鬆，一年班才學 a pan and a man, 只記得返屋企就玩，補習更不會在我哋D清貧家庭出現，自己死掂佢。當時決定為兩個女兒選擇逃離本地課程，因政府做得太多，看不清改革方向，咁就要俾百幾兩百萬讀小學和中學。唉，都唔敢想退休兩個字啦!

作者: elizatyy 時間: 13-12-14 09:12

我估waiting list 主力集中在ESF 和有各氣的IS, 跟LS情況差不多。

作者: Miamama818 時間: 13-12-14 09:36 標題: 回覆：ckwliu 的帖子

those foreign streams are meant for foreingers in HK to receive their local curriculum. if HK competitiveness is low, expats refuse to come to HK, its natural those FOREIGN schools will have spaces. these spaces should be discounted from the space demand numbers of INTERNATIONAL schools becausr they are satisfying different population. with this situation, families from "english" speaking countries are the one facing the most difficulties.

作者: Miamama818 時間: 13-12-14 09:39 標題: 引用：Korean,+French,+German,+Japanese,+Jewish

原帖由 ckwliu 於 13-12-13 發表
Korean, French, German, Japanese, Jewish, Singapore etc. have a total of 4000 extra spaces?? It soun ...

those foreign streams are meant for foreingers in HK to receive their local curriculum. if HK competitiveness is low, expats refuse to come to HK, its natural those FOREIGN schools will have spaces. these spaces should be discounted from the space demand numbers of INTERNATIONAL schools because they are satisfying different population. with this situation, families from "english" speaking countries are the one facing the most difficulties.

作者: ckwliu 時間: 13-12-14 10:41 標題: 回覆：poonseelai 的帖子

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作者: ktschan 時間: 13-12-14 10:45

I really want to know where those vacancies are, it helps to allocate more evenly

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-14 11:24

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 13-12-14 14:16 編輯

ktschan 發表於 13-12-14 10:45
I really want to know where those vacancies are, it helps to allocate more evenly

問題是外國人來港，一定要搞定學位先。有心的本地家長，早點排隊，學好英文，等一兩年，也不是「很難」入國際學校。

作者: victoryu19 時間: 13-12-14 15:59

If the HK education system is good, then I would think most of the local parents would have preferred the local schools instead of paying so much $$$ for the international school places.

作者: SaBB 時間: 13-12-14 17:00 標題: 引用：If+the+HK+education+system+is+good,+then

原帖由 victoryu19 於 13-12-14 發表
If the HK education system is good, then I would think most of the local parents would have preferre ...

agree! who wants to pay more than 8000 a month for education

我而家只係比錢買返我小朋友個童年返黎

作者: samsam123321 時間: 13-12-14 18:06

本帖最後由 samsam123321 於 14-3-20 19:51 編輯

deleted

作者: poonseelai 時間: 13-12-14 18:40

samsam123321 發表於 13-12-14 18:06
又黎了，又想要政府做野禁止市民讀IS

這𥚃無人咁講喎

作者: 112200 時間: 13-12-14 19:07 標題: 引用：又黎了，又想要政府做野禁止市民讀IS

原帖由 samsam123321 於 13-12-14 發表
又黎了，又想要政府做野禁止市民讀IS

遲早政府可能出辣招去防止外國人無IS.搞出個大頭彿

作者: sagesage 時間: 13-12-14 19:26 標題: 引用：又黎了，又想要政府做野禁止市民讀IS

原帖由 samsam123321 於 13-12-14 發表
又黎了，又想要政府做野禁止市民讀IS

可以說越早入學越好，同買樓一樣只會越來越困難，這個節目20年前播，或甚20年後播後果一樣，香港教育問題永遠解決不到！！！

作者: SaBB 時間: 13-12-14 20:23 標題: 引用：又黎了，又想要政府做野禁止市民讀IS

原帖由 samsam123321 於 13-12-14 發表
又黎了，又想要政府做野禁止市民讀IS

香港政府咁無能，店會禁止，最多出下招鼓勵各校優先收外國人，你睇下北區幼稚園，又話一人一位，要註冊要呢樣要個樣，但原來有不少幼稚園都無參與，自行提早收生，註冊，連邊間學校參與吾參與既list 都無。重有，要立法禁止？d 香港市民及無外國passport 既官員睬你都儍，佢地先吾會咁呏笨。HK 教育店差店死都吾緊要，至緊要佢地自己下一代能入名幼再入國際學校再出國讀大學。

作者: careysum 時間: 13-12-15 07:48

我都覺得係，遲D政府可能真係會出手，去減低香港人入讀IS嘅機會

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-15 16:34 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+samsam123321+於+13-12-14+發

原帖由 SaBB 於 13-12-14 發表
香港政府咁無能，店會禁止，最多出下招鼓勵各校優先收外國人，你睇下北區幼稚園，又話一人一位，要註冊要 ...

最近 PISA 成績香港排全球第二。究竟差在那裡？

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-12-15 17:15

shadeslayer 發表於 13-12-15 16:34
最近 PISA 成績香港排全球第二。究竟差在那裡？

By the above measure, Shanghai ranks numero uno, the top of the world, but we only see Shanghainese eager to educate their children abroad instead of the world's children flocking to Shanghai, so either there is something wrong with PISA, or something wrong with 24 million Shanghainese.

作者: NoahArk 時間: 13-12-15 17:26 標題: 引用：Quote:原帖由+SaBB+於+13-12-14+發表香港政

原帖由 shadeslayer 於 13-12-15 發表
最近 PISA 成績香港排全球第二。究竟差在那裡？

Do the PISA scores have any relevance in your planning?

作者: poonseelai 時間: 13-12-15 17:37

PISA is for 15 years old students.  Perhaps students of Western countries surpass those of Asia countries after 15.

2013年12月6日

程介明教育評論

震盪全球的PISA

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又見PISA！12月3日是國際上教育的大日子：PISA發表2012年測試結果。上海仍然第一，一般把香港與新加坡並列為第二。美國朋友說：給中國兩個城市包辦了！PISA是什麼？為什麼引起全球廣泛的注視，而且關注的不限於教育界？

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PISA全名是Programme for International Student Assessment，香港譯為「學生能力國際評估計劃」，由OECD（經濟合作發展組織）主持。每3年舉行一次。PISA引起國際注意，關鍵是2009年上海第一次參加，就全部測試結果都名列榜首，震動了美國總統奧巴馬，因此而出現了美國朝野對PISA的關注。

美國的關注是有政治因素的。香港歷來在PISA表現不弱，2006年就在多項排第一；但是沒有因此得到任何讚賞或者注意。原因很簡單，香港表現如何，沒有政治意義；上海領先世界，那還了得？因此美國要研究為什麼「連教育都不如中國」。

上海領先震撼美國

這裏說一段小插曲。2009年的測試結果，在2010年也是12月發表。美國風聞上海領先，7月筆者受美國一個研究機構（NCEE，國家教育與經濟研究中心）的委託，到上海做了一個訪問研究，加上香港，兩章兩個故事，收集在OECD的有關PISA的書裏面。翌年，針對美國讀者，重寫再版，這次由哈佛大學出版社出版。出版社臨出版前抽起了香港那一章，理由是，「我們對香港沒有興趣」，而且把書名改為《超越上海》（Surpassing Shanghai）。真是又好氣又好笑！

事實上，在美國，PISA變成了一個教育界的經常話題。筆者因此參加過美國各類因為PISA成績不濟而實施改革的聚會：增加課後活動、拉長上學時間、改革師資政策、學校質量保證、民間教育基金等等。在美國，毫不誇張地說，PISA掀起了一場向全球學習改革教育的、持久的運動。筆者就陪過美國的基金聯合組織訪問上海，也接待過無數美國民間、官方組織來香港的訪問。

上海的出眾、美國對PISA的關注，也間接引起了一場國際的教育學習運動。在基礎教育，這是前所未有的。

表現甚佳香港低調

2010年，筆者剛好在墨西哥，旁聽了他們一個數百人的座談會，就是研究墨西哥在PISA的「不佳」表現。一個相當強的聲音，是「墨西哥的教育目的不一樣，學生快樂是最重要的」；言下之意，東亞的高表現者（High Performers，美國人創出來的名詞），都是要孩子忍受很不愉快的經歷。

聯合國公署（UN Commission），統籌了一個在曼谷所有聯合國機構的聯席會議，邀請了泰國教育的高層，一個議題：泰國實施過許許多多的教育改革，為什麼PISA表現還是那麼差？澳門，也曾經研究是否用PISA作為公開考試。

事實上，OECD因為PISA而忙得不可開交。負責PISA的Andreas Schleicher，變成了教育界的國際紅人，受邀到許多國家傳授他的心得；也因此有機會研究了許多國家的特點。

在「高表現者」當中，香港是最低調的，甚至可以說是紋風不動。上海則是謹慎地高興，很提防把成就說過了龍，令自己尷尬。新加坡則是積極地趁此宣傳，明白地稱自己為「高表現者」，把自己看成是被學習對象。

在2009年PISA的高表現者當中，芬蘭是一個異數，因為其他的都是東亞的「筷子文化」地區（可惜2012年芬蘭跌出了10名外），因此也吸引了最多的西方國家訪客。很多西方朋友認為，新加坡與上海都是非常有組織的社會，有非常強的政府導向，他們學之不易。

也由於同樣的理由，訪問過香港的朋友，都感到香港的分散教育系統、「校本」的傳統，比較容易有借鏡的地方。同理，在PISA排名並不最高的加拿大安大略省，也頗受到美國教育界的青睞。

PISA引起了那麼多的迴響，但是天天把PISA掛在口邊的人，卻並不一定了解PISA是什麼。

豐富數據尚待研究

第一、PISA的設計，是測量15歲少年的「能力（ability）」；選擇15歲，因為那是許多國家9年義務教育的終點；因此也可以說PISA是測量各國基礎教育的成效。

第二、PISA最吸引人的，是它測量的是「能力」。簡單而言，PISA測量的不是學生的知識儲存，而是測量學生吸取與運用知識的能力。典型的PISA題目，是供給學生一些資料，看學生能否在資料之中提取有用的知識，進行分析、思考、綜合、應用等等；而這些資料，大部分是學生以前沒有接觸過的。

廣義來說，PISA也可以說是測量學生的「學習能力」，與內地和香港課程改革的「學會學習」宗旨，是一脈相承的。

第三、PISA是對於整體教育體系的測量，而不是個別學生的成績考試。因此，有些地方準備用PISA作為內部的學生考試，從原理上是說不通的；或者說需要很大的改造。令人感到驚訝的是，OECD竟然也有意思，把PISA改造成可以供國家採用的公開考試形式；莫非抵不住讚揚與誘惑，不惜把PISA異化？

第四、PISA本來沒有排名的設計。排名，是各國決策者把事情簡單化的一個結果。就拿今年三個方面的表現來看，香港在數學排第三，科學排第二，閱讀排第二；但是再細看，排在前幾名的，其實「分數」的差異不大，很難成為改善教育的根據，也不存在誰向誰追趕的根據。

不過，香港排在前面，總是好事，不必妄自菲薄；不明白自己的優勢，這些優勢很容易就會溜走。前兩天的傳媒報道，都好像惟恐讚美了香港，都加上一些負面的批評，來「中和」香港的成就；真是何苦？PISA的內容很豐富，分數背後，還有許多背景的數據，可以看到香港學生學習背後的許多因素。這才是最重要的、難得的政策參考。以後再談。

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-15 18:37

本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 13-12-15 19:07 編輯

FattyDaddy 發表於 13-12-15 17:15
By the above measure, Shanghai ranks numero uno, the top of the world, but we only see Shanghainese ...

It is hardly convincing to draw a conclusion that either PISA has a problem or all Shanghainese have a problem by observing that not a lot of people are flocking to Shanghai for education and some Shanghainese go out of the country for education.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-15 19:48

NoahArk 發表於 13-12-15 17:26
Do the PISA scores have any relevance in your planning?

Once I understand what other people think, I can talk about what I think.
It does not add up, right? Second in PISA test and yet we are saying HK education is rubbish.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-15 19:52

PISA is for 15 years old students. Perhaps students of Western countries surpass those of Asia countries after 15.

xxxxxx

Perhaps indeed. Any test is designed for a certain age group and it does not mean that any other age group would be the same. And it certainly does not take away the good results of 15 year olds.

作者: 112200 時間: 13-12-15 22:30 標題: 回覆：新聞透視 --- 學位有多荒

其實我係早幾曰第一次聽到pisa , 仲話香港排第二。但在香港我從來無聽過身邊有人代表香港去考pisa,有無人知其實係米學校抽樣學生去考？LS or IS. ? 問過幾個人都無知。。。。可否advise ?

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-16 00:39

shadeslayer 發表於 13-12-15 18:37
It is hardly convincing to draw a conclusion that either PISA has a problem or all Shanghainese have ...

點評

FattyDaddy Not convincing indeed, so the measure is quite useless 發表於昨天 20:12

Xxxxxx

Your conclusion was not convincing does not mean PISA as a measurement is useless.

PISA is a large sample test across many countries and cities and the results must have some truth in it. What we need is a way to interpret the results. What I merely pointed out was that some people has the perception that Hk education is rubbish but HK's PISA results are very good, not just one fluke, HK has been top 5 for at least 3 tests spanning 9 years. Why is there such a big difference between certain people's opinion and PISA results. Your answer was PISA is useless, I am not so sure. There must be other reasons.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-16 00:41

112200 發表於 13-12-15 22:30
其實我係早幾曰第一次聽到pisa , 仲話香港排第二。但在香港我從來無聽過身邊有人代表香港去考pisa,有無人知 ...

Read this thread.
http://www.edu-kingdom.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2721410&extra=page%3D1

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-12-16 01:39

shadeslayer 發表於 13-12-16 00:39
PISA is a large sample test across many countries and cities and the results must have some truth in it

Some truth, whatever amount there is, had obviously not caused any significant change in terms of more foreign children going to Shanghai to study nor less Shanghainese children going abroad, or we would have heard of such a trend by now because these PISA tests has been conducted for a number of years. So feel free to take it for whatever value you think there is in it {:1_1:}

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-16 07:53 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+13-12-16+00:39+

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 13-12-16 發表
Some truth, whatever amount there is, had obviously not caused any significant change in terms of mo ...

Not a lot of people flocking in to study in Finland, right? And yet we all know Finnish education has a lot of merits.

I trust scientific large sample tests which are taken seriously by many nations and generated a lot of discussions. It is ok if you trust that measuring the change in number of people coming in and leaving the country for education is a good indication of quality of education, and dismiss PISA without giving other reasons.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-12-16 10:07

shadeslayer 發表於 13-12-16 07:53
Not a lot of people flocking in to study in Finland, right? ...

My point exactly, not a lot of people flocked to Finland before, and not a lot of people flocking to Shanghai and Hongkong now. Goes to show just how relevant these PISA rankings are doesn't it.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-16 11:07 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+13-12-16+07:53+

原帖由 FattyDaddy 於 13-12-16 發表
My point exactly, not a lot of people flocked to Finland before, and not a lot of people flocking to ...

You are saying PISA is irrelevant as a measure of education even though it has rigorous sample and tests. You base this on no-flocking.

I am saying flocking is irrelevant as a measure of education because it is arbitrary. There can be a million reasons why people are not flocking to Finland or Shanghai regardless of their education standard.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-12-16 12:28

shadeslayer 發表於 13-12-16 11:07
You are saying PISA is irrelevant as a measure of education even though it has rigorous sample and t ...

Nope, I'm saying PISA scores do not represent the overall quality of education of a country or region because it is a very specific set of tests aimed at a very specific age group, no matter how rigorously the tests were conducted. It is like testing the performance of an engine rigorously and claim the result represents the overall performance of a car.

Remember a few posts ago our friend NoahArk asked you "Do the PISA scores have any relevance in your planning?", your answer was a cryptic one ... "Once I understand what other people think, I can talk about what I think", didn't sound like PISA is very important to you either.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-16 20:55

Nope, I'm saying PISA scores do not represent the overall quality of education of a country or region because it is a very specific set of tests aimed at a very specific age group, no matter how rigorously the tests were conducted. It is like testing the performance of an engine rigorously and claim the result represents the overall performance of a car.

Xxxx

I agree the test cannot represent the overall quality of education. Then again what can be used to represent the overall quality of education? Probably nothing alone can. The PISA result represents certain aspects of education which is still useful as an indicator for that particular aspect of education.

When someone said Hk education is rubbish, what do they mean? Certainly not all aspects of HK education is rubbish, right?

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-12-16 23:20

shadeslayer 發表於 13-12-16 20:55
When someone said Hk education is rubbish, what do they mean? Certainly not all aspects of HK education is rubbish, right? ...

Different people will probably give you a different answer, some may dislike the rote learning, some may dislike the amount of repetitive homework, some may dislike the amount of out of school extra tuition, some may dislike memorizing model answers for exams, or any combination of the above.

One would expect Hongkong's consistent high PISA scores to ease the shortage of international school places, not only should locals feel more inclined towards sticking to local schools, but some of the foreign children who come would opt for local schools too if they buy the PISA story, but nothing like that had happened.

作者: nintendo 時間: 13-12-17 13:19

FattyDaddy 發表於 13-12-16 23:20
Different people will probably give you a different answer, some may dislike the rote learning, some ...

我相信教育不單單是看 "成績"，教育的 "過程" 都好重要。好多亞洲學生，中學都可以成績好好，但去到大學，就唔夠鬼仔抽。就算是我那個年代，亞洲人在外國讀高中，真係乜都殺晒，入到 freshman 成績仍然有睇頭，但去到 sophamore，d 鬼仔真係會追上來，因為他們的思維的確好得多。pisa 的成績我信是公正的，但事實是很多家長對亞洲的教學方式不信任不欣賞就是了。教育除了教學生知識和考試技巧，應該比學生更多思考的空間，和比學生發揮自己的潛能。亞洲人乜都愛 qualtify，見到 pisa 高分就沾沾自喜，但可能轉頭就送小朋友去英國美國讀書。話時話，自從轉制 nss (dse) 後，幾年幾間名校流失大量中學生，由初中至高中都有，流失的人數比以往多，有心插班入名校，機會來了。

作者: Jackieson 時間: 13-12-17 16:33

本帖最後由 Jackieson 於 13-12-17 16:36 編輯

poonseelai 發表於 13-12-14 18:40
這𥚃無人咁講喎

上月EDB就在TKO批地建IS進行地區諮詢, 被LS校長會向區議會聯名反對, 認為當區近年中學人口下降，區內中小學學額均出現供過於求，指國際學校可取錄本地生，會加劇區內學額供過於求的情況。若增加區內學額，有機會導致學校縮班或停辦。又想要政府做野禁止香港市民讀IS !?

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-17 21:10 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+Jackieson+於+13-12-17+16:36+

原帖由 Jackieson 於 13-12-17 發表
本帖最後由 Jackieson 於 13-12-17 16:36 編輯

上月EDB就在TKO批地建IS進行地區諮詢, 被LS校長會向區議 ...

如果冇本地人䜖 IS，咁多 IS 學額一下子點算。香港自由開，跟唔到坡仔嗰套。

作者: oooray 時間: 13-12-18 00:18 標題: 回覆：Jackieson 的帖子

睇到呢段我即時笑左出黎!國際學校幾時變左焚化爐/骨灰庵/堆填區?not in my backyard?仲要唔係一般街坊反對,係校長會反對?!如果屬實;就真係好可悲;一群領導學校嘅行政人員竟然有D嘅自私又無知;近乎竭斯底里式為保護自身利益，如驚弓之鳥而亂吠行徑;實在太無知,太抬高自己了!
佢地應該就九龍塘區中小學幼稚園學額長年不足;要求政府多開一百幾十間IS於該區;另要求政府強行將新來港適齡入學學童強制入讀TKO區學校;以保證該區學生源源不絕;各中小學千秋萬世;生意興隆。

作者: Artie 時間: 13-12-18 00:27

本帖最後由 Artie 於 13-12-18 00:29 編輯

Jackieson 發表於 13-12-17 16:33
上月EDB就在TKO批地建IS進行地區諮詢, 被LS校長會向區議會聯名反對, 認為當區近年中學人口下降，區內中小學 ...

而家的情形係，好多國際學校學生都唔係原區學生，聽過有人由新界去港島讀，亦有港島入新界。
其實國際學校和本地學校唔同 "客源"

作者: oooray 時間: 13-12-18 00:40 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+Artie+於+13-12-18+00:29+編輯

原帖由 Artie 於 13-12-18 發表
本帖最後由 Artie 於 13-12-18 00:29 編輯

所以咪話呢D人無知

作者: Jackieson 時間: 13-12-18 08:51

oooray 發表於 13-12-18 00:18
睇到呢段我即時笑左出黎!國際學校幾時變左焚化爐/骨灰庵/堆填區?not in my backyard?仲要唔係一般街坊反對, 係校長會反對?!如果屬實;就真係好可悲;...

http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/realtime/news/20131120/51917865

作者: ikerberg 時間: 13-12-20 06:45

本帖最後由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 09:40 編輯

i just pitty all those HK parents who wish to send their children to IS in order to avoid the catastrophic local school system. They are willing to spend millions of hard-earned money just to avoid the ever-changing/mis-directed/suffocating local school systems, and yet, they still have to fight very hard for a place in the IS, and a good seat is never guaranteed. Don't forget this group of high-earners have to spend hundred thousands for tax, yet, they can't get any reward by averting the LS system....... what a pitty, what a pitty

作者: ikerberg 時間: 13-12-20 06:48

It is not a joke. I heard a story about a gov't official who after heading the Education Department for a while, the official switched her girl from DGS to GSIS... so, you see ....

作者: ckwliu 時間: 13-12-20 09:24 標題: 回覆：ikerberg 的帖子

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作者: ikerberg 時間: 13-12-20 09:47

本帖最後由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 10:02 編輯

if the local system is good enough, I won't bother spending that millions to opt for IS for my 3 kids...fortunately, they all got in our dream IS.... and we feel all those $ spent is worth it..... yet, as said, we can't enjoy any benefit for gov't expenditure on education, but could we have a tax break on it, i.e. could all those $ spent in IS school fees [which we believe is value-for-$] be counted as tax allowance? Having spent that hundreds thousands on IS school fees every year, and we still need to spend hundreds thousands on TAX [and NOW even for all those new immigrants from China]... who would be happy about this?

作者: ckwliu 時間: 13-12-20 09:58 標題: 回覆：ikerberg 的帖子

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作者: ikerberg 時間: 13-12-20 10:04

本帖最後由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 10:04 編輯

回覆 ckwliu 的帖子

having found a person with the same tone/mindset is worth => thousands likes !!

作者: ckwliu 時間: 13-12-20 10:15 標題: 回覆：ikerberg 的帖子

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作者: ikerberg 時間: 13-12-20 10:47

本帖最後由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 10:50 編輯

I do not hate the past local education system that much as the present one. Afterall, I and my wife could be regarded as the "successful survivors" of this system of intense competition....only that we disliked going to school and the super immense pressure in HKCEE and HKALE, but by then the system could be regarded as a stable, fruitful one... but after 1997, the change to Cantonese as the medium of instruction was completely against the global trend.... While Japaneses, Koreans, and even Mainland Chinese were heading towards learning English, you stupid TUNG Chee-wah went backward to using more Cantonese/but less English? It was perhaps for political reason but don't you know that you had dropped a nuclear bomb to the HK education system, stupid old man!? I have a story to share, i.e. As a kind of 'pro-bono', I used to teach English free-of-charge to some students from humble families in TSW and YL. Those from the Chinese MOI schools would scare you quite much. In an oral exercise, I offered a picture with a pyramid and let a student to create a story with it. But that F.5 student even did not know the word 'pyramid'.. I asked myself why?! Oh, yes. I could figure it out later... because when I was in F.1, I used English history textbook from which I learnt the word 'pyramid' but for them, they just know the word 金字塔 from their history textbook written in Chinese.... Very honestly, I don't see any hope for a teen of 16 who doesn't even know the word 'pyramid', and he surely doesn't have a place in this 'Global village' now and later ...... I don't blame him. He was hardworking. I would just blame those who got > $400,000 a month to diligently fuxk up the education (and therefore the future) of our younger generations...

作者: ikerberg 時間: 13-12-20 11:04

One even more scary story was that. A F.2 student told me.... he could learn all English in 2 years, i.e. each day, he would memorize the words in 2 pages of his English dictionary and he could complete this task in 2 years. Could we blame him!?

作者: oooray 時間: 13-12-20 11:10

回覆 ikerberg 的帖子

If everybody can enjoy top-class education, the privileged group will no longer have any privilege.
100% politic issue.

作者: poonseelai 時間: 13-12-20 12:02

回覆 ikerberg 的帖子

My hubby's company joined a programmer to let F5 students experience what a work place was like. He did a presentation at the end of the day. A student from TSW asked whether they really used Eng in the office or just for the presentation. I felt really pity for him. For them Eng is only a subject they learned at school and like say history or chemistry that they thought they would never apply in daily life.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-20 12:12 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+ikerberg+於+13-12-20+09:40+

原帖由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 發表
本帖最後由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 09:40 編輯

i just pitty all those HK parents who wish to send the ...

Not only education, these people probably spend their own money on private prenatal check up and deliver babies in private hospitals. They are also likely to go to private doctors for all medical needs. Not to mention they do not qualify for any government housing benefits. Yet they are just employees having to withstand huge stress and pressure.

作者: nintendo 時間: 13-12-20 12:29

過多兩年，等 esf  停 subvention (for new student)，肯定申請 esf 人數會少好多。其實，印像中，我又唔覺真係唔夠學位，以國際幼稚園為例，好多小朋友都最終入到國際小學，只係未必係 first choice。
過去幾年，因為 nss 而多了人走去國際學校，好多家長都想搭尾班車入 esf ，但一旦 esf  冇資助，我相信有好多家長就唔會再 consider 。
另外，國際學校亦越開越多，供應多了，應該學位冇咁緊張。
還有，好多人話冇位，但我覺得有 d 根本只係 "考唔到"。
我有個鄰居，成日想入某國際學校，但考了多年，由考小學，到而家考中學，都係考唔到，考完又考，你話個 applicant pool  唔多人就奇。

作者: Ruby1219 時間: 13-12-20 12:44 標題: 回覆：nintendo 的帖子

but I think some international schools would restrict the number of times you apply. like you can only apply twice for GSIS

作者: ikerberg 時間: 13-12-20 13:08

回覆 poonseelai 的帖子

Our examples are just the tip of the iceberg.

The sad truth is the only chance they are in touch with English is English lessons.

But, you know what? English in English lessons is not taught in English. OMG.

Even if you have the talent of Shakespeare's, you still can't fly high with sooooo limited exposure!

16 years after 1997, English is still the main (if not the only) medium of communication in work, gov't or business, and this trend will not cease in the foreseeable future.

作者: oooray 時間: 13-12-20 13:36

本帖最後由 oooray 於 13-12-20 13:36 編輯

nintendo 發表於 13-12-20 12:29
過多兩年，等 esf 停 subvention (for new student)，肯定申請 esf 人數會少好多。其實，印像中，我又唔覺 ...

你鄰居係咪係waiting list等緊就當"考唔到"?一般人考過一兩次唔得會放棄；或考第間；同一間考完又考又有點奇怪......

作者: ckwliu 時間: 13-12-20 13:48

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作者: Ruby1219 時間: 13-12-20 13:51 標題: 回覆：ikerberg 的帖子

but the English of some top local schools is excellent and even better than that of IS students! especially in writing, grammar and comprehension. but I personally like the learning approach and attitude of IS more.

作者: nintendo 時間: 13-12-20 14:10

回覆 oooray 的帖子

世上幾奇的事都有，佢都係申請了四次，佢話唔憤氣，冇理由考唔到，因為唔係名牌熱門學校，考唔到學校咁瘀，冇理由講大話卦，我覺得佢地黑仔 d 啦，小朋友未至於好差

作者: ikerberg 時間: 13-12-20 14:18

本帖最後由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 14:20 編輯

回覆 Ruby1219 的帖子

I never meant all IS students' English is better than all local students'.... Given the total no. of local students >> IS students, it is no wonder some elites from local schools are better than some IS's.

Surely, I won't doubt the English standard of those from the elite schools -- such as Co-ed, DB, DG etc....

But, just for your information/interest, because of my work, in recent years, I had chances to interview with some elite fresh graduates from the local universities...and I must point out that the general standard of spoken English as I observed was far from desirable.

Even though I had no doubt that they were smart and they could express themselves very well in Cantonese, when they switched to the English channel, they could not express their ideas clearly owing to their limited vocab base.  They had difficulty in picking up the right words to say what they really had wished to mean. The fluency was also far from satisfactory, generally speaking.

What made myself so attracted/addicted to my chosen IS was a few years ago, when I went to the OpenHouse of that IS, I was stopped by a boy requesting me to listen to his presentation [great courage/confidence, boy!].  He used powerpoint prepared by himself to present a topic ==> "Overfishing" [<--- kind of topic you would read in magazines like "Time" / "The Economist".] In the presentation, his confidence and his English fluency so displayed, I can say, was better than many many HKU graduates.

Finally, I asked the boy == "How old are you?"  and he replied "Eleven".

作者: ckwliu 時間: 13-12-20 15:33

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作者: Ruby1219 時間: 13-12-20 15:38 標題: 回覆：ikerberg 的帖子

I agree with you.
similarly,  I have experience teaching the local university students and found their English even lower than the primary school kids in IS.
on the contrary, when I saw the presentation from the year 3 (8 years old) students at my son's IS,  I was so impressed!  by their confidence and courtesy, not only their native fluent English.

作者: ikerberg 時間: 13-12-20 16:07

本帖最後由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 16:10 編輯

The main concern for the educators nowadays shall be how to equip the kids with the skills, manner and mentality of being a future global citizen (or a global leader if you aim higher), but not feeding them with hard/cold facts [knowledge] which one could easily find by just checking the key words with wikipedia / google....

that is, the core competencies that have to be developed through education:

(1) language skills (at least English & Putonghua close to native levels)
(2) public speaking /presentation skills
(3) skills to work as a team member/leader
(4) creativity / critical thinking
(5) integrity / empathy / awareness & understanding & respect of cultural differences
...etc...

The above are just my personal views that I wish to share in the fruitful discussion of this thread.

Surely, different ppl have different views...

作者: Ruby1219 時間: 13-12-20 17:06 標題: 回覆：ikerberg 的帖子

I totally agree with you

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-20 20:23 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+ikerberg+於+13-12-20+14:20+

原帖由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 發表
本帖最後由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 14:20 編輯

回覆 Ruby1219 的帖子

I saw a year 8 history homework not long ago regarding "why do I think the reform of the Roman Empire was not necessary" or something to that effect. Without reading further, I thought to myself, wow, that is deep.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-20 20:36 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+ikerberg+於+13-12-20+16:10+

原帖由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 發表
本帖最後由 ikerberg 於 13-12-20 16:10 編輯

The main concern for the educators nowadays shall be h ...

It does not matter what time are we in, we still need professionals like doctors and lawyers. And for them hard cold facts are still important.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-20 20:41 標題: 回覆：新聞透視 --- 學位有多荒

While I agree with most of what you guys said here, I am a bit more optimistic on local education. The local system focuses on gaining knowledge and is good at producing professionals. It is just that the journey to acquiring knowledge is quite tough.

作者: Jules_S 時間: 13-12-21 01:01 標題: 回覆：ikerberg 的帖子

What about this kind of local school?

The School-based Internationalized Curriculum (I.C.)

www.cms.edu.hk

Will that be an option?

English instruction
learning Chinese via mandarin
multi- culture environment
Local school = free

作者: ckwliu 時間: 13-12-21 09:24 標題: 回覆：Jules_S 的帖子

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作者: Jules_S 時間: 13-12-21 10:24 標題: 回覆：Jules_S 的帖子

We lived in Europe for many years, and we move to Hk recently. I have visited two local schools these months, going to their class observation, talking to the principal and attending school events. Both school are not the most popular ones in Hk, maybe tier 2/3 kind of school. That's why these schools welcome prospective parents visiting. I must say I am quite impressed by the schools: down to earth, not only focus on academic, balance of life, open-minded, care for the interest of their students, instead of only the school name.

Comparing Europe, where most people go to the nearest school they live. School difference is not that big. Here in HK, u have great variety of choice. U just need to spend some more time to find the right one. So far I found that the local aided schools are really not bad.

作者: FattyDaddy 時間: 13-12-21 17:32

Jules_S 發表於 13-12-21 10:24
Here in HK, u have great variety of choice ...

I'm not surprised to hear contrary views, I have a friend who had lived in UK for many years and his daughter was born there. He came back to HK some years ago and decided that a HK style education is better for his daughter because he felt his daughter "was not learning anything" in the UK.

I always believe each family's situation and preferences are different and strictly speaking there are no right or wrong choices, however the choices we make for our children today do have an effect on how well they will fit into certain societies in future, so one should consider which part of the world they will most likely be living in when making choices for them.

作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-21 19:38

I was just trying to find a movie to watch. I guess another sign of declining English in HK is that I thought there were more English version of Hollywood movies in the past. Now all but very few cinema show Cantonese dubbed version.

作者: ckwliu 時間: 13-12-21 19:59 標題: 回覆：shadeslayer 的帖子

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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-12-21 20:15 標題: 引用：Try+the+Hobbits. +

原帖由 ckwliu 於 13-12-21 發表
Try the Hobbits.

Watched that. Thanks.

I was looking at Frozen.

歡迎光臨教育王國 (/)