教育王國
標題: 培養孩子創意思維 [打印本頁]
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-12 03:56 標題: 培養孩子創意思維
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 13-4-12 03:59 編輯
培養孩子創意思維
晴報專訊】現時不少傳統名校在新高中課程以外，同時開辦國際文憑（IB）課程，以雙軌形式並行。對接受傳統教學的家長來說，子女轉向IB課程也是一種挑戰。關紫悠（Karen）本身是一所教育機構老闆，曾在美國留學的經驗，令她相信IB課程更能培養女兒學習能力，遂為女兒轉讀IB課程。教學模式轉變，家長為子女「轉制」，也需要調整對子女長遠教育的心態。
不少港人在傳統教育制度下成績不俗，身為家長的Karen也不例外，直至她往美國讀大學，始發現自己的不足。她修讀金融，公開考試中，數學和附加數學也取A級。「我以為自己很叻，教授卻不時追問我『點解』，我才發覺自己根本不明所以，只懂做（數學題）。」她形容自己是「高分低能」，「可以想像當時如何打擊我的自信心……同期成績較我低分的美國同學，都可找到很高職位的工，因為他們的分析力強，懂表達，一直都不是強記，而是真正明白自己學的東西。」
着重探索
她育有三名女兒，長女鄺芷丹（Kevina）剛於宏信書院升讀Grade 7，Kevina以往在圓玄小學一直名列前茅。Karen說，當其他家長得悉女兒往宏信書院讀書，也覺得「浪費」女兒，皆因以她的成績不難考入傳統名校。「女兒一直也不明白為何要讀宏信。直至今個月，她跟學校去韓國遊學，回來後跟我說：終於明白我為甚麼要她轉校。」9月初，因為遊學團關係，學校設計了一次歐遊模擬活動，着學生模擬訂機票，以至計劃行程。「當時她望着電腦，完全摸不着頭腦，我的角色，只是教她怎樣打關鍵字搜尋資料……IB課程正是想學生探索多些。」
小妮子初次離開家人外遊，要自行計劃用錢，甚至老師早已要求家長不能幫忙執行李。Kevina與組員由老師分派指定題目「建築」，當中需要與組員協調工作。問她這數月來的體驗，她說：「沒有太多功課，不過，要做很多project。有時間可以學很多不同的事物，學上網找資料。」
不重分數
現時就讀小五的次女芷彤（Kara），9月也將轉往宏信書院讀書。她在現時就讀的學校成績不過爾爾，甚至問過媽媽，自己是否真的如此差勁。兩名女兒的成績差異，她從沒插手，皆因她始終覺得求分數沒意思。為Kara轉讀IB課程，她希望可發揮其創意思維。「聽大女說，同學就算成績一般，創意思維卻不俗，我希望Kara有其他人引導、影響她，啟發其創意思維，找到自己的興趣可愈做愈好。」
現時行「雙軌制」的中學，IBDP的成績較一直行IB課程的學校為優，亦令不少家長覺得小學以傳統教學，能先鞏固學術基礎云云。Karen不以為然，覺得學習應先由興趣主導，若傳統教學模式早令孩子失去學習動機，家長怎樣催谷也沒用。「若家長堅持求學是求分數，那麼IB學校真的不適合。」她覺得讀書不是為求入著名大學，亦不求女兒做精英，只想她們有求知慾，主動探索知識，具分析組織能力更重要。
在職媽媽 假期不工作
Karen坦言工作繁忙，每天晚上八、九時才回家，從沒花太多時間在女兒的學業上，全權交給學校，寧願周末花時間與女兒遊玩。「我也曾經放假時花很多時間跟她們溫書，曾有人說，覺得見到媽媽只是溫書，不開心，這令我反省原來跟她們的相處經驗，只有溫書……」遂令她下定決心「放手」，由孩子自行管理功課。「我分得很清楚，上班時沒有特別事，她們不要致電給我；放工後及放假日子，我也請同事沒有特別事不要找我。」
撰文、攝影：羅惠儀
部分照片：受訪者提供
[p=29, null, left]http://hk.news.yahoo.com/%E5%9F%B9%E9%A4%8A%E5%AD%A9%E5%AD%90%E5%89%B5%E6%84%8F%E6%80%9D%E7%B6%AD-224916728.html
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-12 04:01
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 13-4-12 08:43 編輯
I checked 宏信書院 web site, I did not see any mention of IBDP. It mentioned "Diploma" though. If they are in the process of applying, they can call themselves IB candidate school.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 13-4-12 08:55
本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 13-4-12 13:02 編輯
shadeslayer 發表於 13-4-12 04:01 
I checked 宏信書院 web site, I did not see any mention of IBDP. It mentioned "Diploma" though. If t ...
有疑問應該翻查lBO網業，它詳列所有認可學校，但不會列出正被考核的學校的名單Candidate school ，但你可以發電郵給lB0亞太分部，列明查證學校名稱及地址，24小時有回覆，我特意問過幾間直資及私校，他們的回覆跟學校報導有少少出入。
作者: cstchan 時間: 13-4-12 12:51
本帖最後由 cstchan 於 13-4-12 12:53 編輯
ANChan59 發表於 13-4-12 08:55
宏信早已是lBDP認可學校，而且有畢業生，Diploma就是lBDP。
再者有疑問應該翻查lBO網業，它詳列所有認可學 ...
宏信書院 Lutheran Academy (http://www.luac.edu.hk/home/) 只是一間2010年創校的直資中學，不是一間 IB 學校，在 IBO 網頁中，香港只有一間 IB 學校是 L 開頭的！
想是錯記了弘立書院 ISP Academy。
作者: ANChan59 時間: 13-4-12 13:00 標題: 回覆：cstchan 的帖子
Sorry, thanks for your reminder.
I should delete the related post.
作者: annie40 時間: 13-4-12 14:09
有点像膳稿, 是旧酒新瓶!
IB 不是超级的灵丹妙药
IS 更不是无往不利
創意思維- 读LS 的Eviepa 女儿照样很好
唔好提起IB, IS 就一味似江湖,卖药, 食左几乎可以起死回生甘神奇. 每年花十多二十万, 就等同'得左'
鄺太不是没道理, 只是看得多吃不消. LS 的好孩子, 有足甚么創意思維,着重探索的, 大有人在.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 13-4-12 14:19 標題: 回覆：annie40 的帖子
非常同意，lB變成靈丹妙薬，事實上有些學生是毒藥亦未可料！
作者: akys 時間: 13-4-12 15:45
會晤會想講宏立？
作者: Parisienne 時間: 13-4-12 17:31
本帖最後由 Parisienne 於 13-4-12 18:00 編輯
當一個社會普遍走向極端時，即使是普通草藥，都會被視為靈丹妙藥。
要探討lB的吹捧現象，著墨點不如探討為什麼會有此現象？
過份追捧不是好事，何況lB根本不是主流，即使在世界其他國家，很少見到大眾紛紛追捧lB，我想是因為普羅教育根本理念和lB已經相近，尤其在思想和教育自由度較高的國家。但來了香港，為什麼又有此現象呢？是lB本身問題，還是香港本地教育有太多檢討空間？
要討論的，不是lB是否靈丹妙藥，而是如何借助它，來反思自己傳統教育上的不足！
良好的教育如果只發揮在少撮人的身上，而且還要付上大量金錢，這對整個民族來說是可悲的。
我不是說傳統教育不好，但當大部份人都感到自己在煉獄裏時，即使一口新鮮空氣，都可被視為天堂裏的避難所。
追捧lB，就是代表本地教育的不足之現象。
我可能誇張了，但意思大約是這樣。
作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-12 18:12
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作者: Parisienne 時間: 13-4-12 18:37
talent2000 發表於 13-4-12 18:12
一聽到IB，好像西藥一定比中藥好，極好笑。在外國也不會強調IB比其他好，自由選擇一樣入到Stanford, Harvar ...
作者: Stillgood2 時間: 13-4-12 19:04
本帖最後由 Stillgood2 於 13-4-12 19:05 編輯
如果用中、西藥來比喻教育....
糖尿病, 最新和最好的療法, 是中西合壁.
唔好只靠單用西藥和中藥.
近年, 好多病, 都係中西合壁最好!!!
------------------------------------------
醫好病, 就係好方法
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-12 19:13 標題: 回覆：培養孩子創意思維
文章的確神化了 IB。
客觀比較 IBDP 和 DSE，應該 ANChan 最有資格。
作者: Parisienne 時間: 13-4-12 19:20
本帖最後由 Parisienne 於 13-4-12 19:26 編輯
所以不應追捧lB，而是借lB來檢討自己不足。
中藥配方無料到，久服會害死人。
西藥配方太強，受唔到一樣會死人。
香港，理應是中西合壁的好地方吧？？（我是說理應⋯）
作者: Parisienne 時間: 13-4-12 19:36
shadeslayer 發表於 13-4-12 19:13
文章的確神化了 IB。
客觀比較 IBDP 和 DSE，應該 ANChan 最有資格。
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-12 19:43 標題: 引用：Quote:shadeslayer+發表於+13-4-12+19:13+
原帖由 Parisienne 於 13-04-12 發表
Oops ⋯！那恕我剛才多言了
教育只能選傳統，IB ，IGCSE, 等，無中西合璧。
作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-12 19:48
回復 cstchan 的帖子
They are talking about Lutheran Academy. If you click into the article in the website and then look at the pictures, you can clearly see the students holding a document with "Lutheran Academy" written on it.
作者: Parisienne 時間: 13-4-12 19:51
本帖最後由 Parisienne 於 13-4-12 19:52 編輯
shadeslayer 發表於 13-4-12 19:43
Sorry, 每位也可發表。我並不是說其他人的意見無用。
教育只能選傳統，IB ，IGCSE, 等，無中西合璧。
Sorry sorry ,是一旦比起前輩的無私分析，蚊同牛比，自覺汗顏，一時虛心了。只是香港現象一向奇特，所以有感而發。
敢問為何不能中西合壁？
制度是制度，教法可是活的、是人為，不是嗎？
唔係咁絕望卦？
作者: ANChan59 時間: 13-4-12 20:04
本帖最後由 ANChan59 於 13-4-12 20:05 編輯
回復 Parisienne 的帖子
不用Sorry, 我都有同感，特別是NSS是A貨lB（如果大部份人同意），所以教育局是看到lB的好處，但規劃及執行上明顯有很大出入，好值得深思及反省。
可惜自己已側重lB，而對NSS了解可能未夠對等深入，會失禮街坊。到七月後先在日誌寫出看法，讓各方友好指正後才貼出大海，希望做到事實為本，供大家討論，減少駡戰及無謂爭抝！
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-12 20:12 標題: 引用：回復+cstchan+的帖子
They+are+talking+ab
原帖由 HKTHK 於 13-04-12 發表
回復 cstchan 的帖子
They are talking about Lutheran Academy. If you click into the article in the ...
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-12 20:19 標題: 引用：+本帖最後由+Parisienne+於+13-4-12+19:52+
原帖由 Parisienne 於 13-04-12 發表
本帖最後由 Parisienne 於 13-4-12 19:52 編輯
制度是制度，教法可是活的、是人為，不是嗎？
Cxxxx
考 IBDP， 但課程融合IB 和 DSE 的概念及要求，有學校會這樣做嗎？
當然，你可以說 DSE 課程本身可以中西合璧。DSE 太新，能否發展致中西合璧，有侍証實。
小學本地，中學 IB 又是否另一類中西合璧？
作者: Parisienne 時間: 13-4-12 20:27
shadeslayer 發表於 13-4-12 20:19
敢問為何不能中西合壁？
制度是制度，教法可是活的、是人為，不是嗎？
作者: cstchan 時間: 13-4-12 22:00
shadeslayer 發表於 13-4-12 20:12
I don't know LA being an IB school so I checked the web site. Surprised to find they don't even name ...
However, they do have the plan to be an IBO School. You can find this information in their School Plans and School Reports.
In the 2010/11 report, they do mention IBO accepted LA as an "Interested School" for PYP and MYP.
In their School Plans and Development Plan, they keep on putting "Striving our best to gain authorization for ..." as their target 1 under the Major Concern "Teaching & Learning". I use "..." because there're changes time to time.
I believe LA is not even a candidate school at this moment. However, they do plan to be an IBO school. Most probably, they are following IB Schools' practices. However, they cannot write anything related to IB on their website officially.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-12 22:31
回復 cstchan 的帖子
Does this mean they will do PYP and MYP under IB system and then switch to HK's NSS system? Does this work? I thought the best part of IB was its DP program and that the other programs have more of a mixed review.
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-12 22:48
HKTHK 發表於 13-4-12 22:31
回復 cstchan 的帖子
Does this mean they will do PYP and MYP under IB system and then switch to HK's ...
That is what I am saying. A 2 year old school is optimistic to run dual curricula?
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-12 23:00 標題: 引用：一聽到IB，好像西藥一定比中藥好，極好笑。
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 13-4-12 23:11 編輯
原帖由 talent2000 於 13-04-12 發表
一聽到IB，好像西藥一定比中藥好，極好笑。在外國也不會強調IB比其他好，自由選擇一樣入到Stanford, Harvar ...
一聽到IB，好像西藥一定比中藥好，極好笑。在外國也不會強調IB比其他好，自由選擇一樣入到Stanford, Harvard 等名大學，個人成就不會因為IB而有所分別而係個人興趣及性格。
Xxxxxx
個人興趣及性格又點來的? 家庭學校影響細咩?
教育體系是有相對優劣的。例如芬蘭教育公認是先進的，成功的。世界各地研究芬蘭教育者眾。
每年入牛劍長春藤大學也有芬蘭學生，亦有非洲剛果學生，不能因此說兩者教育體系是一樣好。
註：我不是說非洲剛果一定差過芬蘭。
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-12 23:07
cstchan 發表於 13-4-12 22:00
In LA's website, they say they introduce a "Glocalized" Curriculum to HK, which combines the advanta ...
When I see made-up words like "Glocalized", I am very skeptical because no one understands what that means.
Only 2 traditional elite DSS who can afford to charge a high fee run dual curricula. Even popular and more established schools like HKUGA/Logos decided against a dual curricula approach. I don't understand where does a 2-year-old school get the confidence to run dual curricula.
作者: cstchan 時間: 13-4-12 23:12
HKTHK 發表於 13-4-12 22:31
回復 cstchan 的帖子
Does this mean they will do PYP and MYP under IB system and then switch to HK's ...
At the very beginning, IBDP was developed as a pre-university curriculum. Because of the need, it has grown into three programs (i.e PYP, MYP & DP).
I don't think any countries will consider IB as their own curriculum. It's designed for preparing kids entering the universities. However, a government should prepare the citizens for the society. It's impossible to have 100% students entering the universities. So in their own curriculum, they need to add their own elements to suit their needs.
DP is not an easy curriculum. There're internal assessment for all subjects (i.e. 6) plus a entra 4000-word extended essay. No one from the whole world complain this. No one say it's unfair. However, for DSE, many many complaints for SBA. So interesting!?
DSE is something new. We need time to improve it.
IB is not 靈丹妙藥. It cannot save all our children. Not all kids suit that learning style! Not all students from the international schools are bright students (I mean their learning attitude)!
作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-12 23:18
回復 cstchan 的帖子
Agreed, IBDP is not for everyone. Some schools, such as ESF, do offer alternative curriculum or programs.
作者: cstchan 時間: 13-4-12 23:27
shadeslayer 發表於 13-4-12 23:07
If LA themselves are not able to use "IB" in their web site, why did the article mentioned LA being ...
However, there are many schools claim that they are using "IB approach" curriculum! Mrs Kwong is a parent. She may receive many many messages from the school including the word "IB"!
LOGOS is offering two curricula as EDB doesn't allow all students in DSS schools to study other curriculum. In my mind, she claimed their students can sit for two examinations at the same time in the past. However, I don't believe any students will take up two examinations at the same time this year.
I don't have many information for HKUGA. I only know her first primary school principal likes IB idea.
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-12 23:30
cstchan 發表於 13-4-12 23:27
If LA is not even a candidate school, she has not much relationship with IBO. She cannot say she's ...
作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-14 00:43
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作者: ANChan59 時間: 13-4-14 13:21
talent2000 發表於 13-4-14 00:43
印象中，香港以為IB係靈藥，係外國好多也是選擇傳統科目而入大學，搞到IB好像高人一等有優越感才賺到大錢， ...
如果孩子讀lB的家長，我相信絕少認為lB是靈丹妙藥，塘邊鶴講得多些，及個別未是lB學校的鱔稿而誤解完整理念。
作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-14 21:04
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作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-14 21:10
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作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-14 21:20
回復 talent2000 的帖子
You have yelled and screamed. But what is your point? Which is the best system in your view? How does IB not measure up?
作者: eldestadventure 時間: 13-4-15 00:01
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作者: lillymarie 時間: 13-4-15 06:53 標題: 引用：Quote:talent2000+發表於+13-4-14+21:04+你
原帖由 eldestadventure 於 13-04-15 發表
睇完你一大段鬧人說話，可用兩個字來形容：「廢話」。
要鬧人無問題，因我也經常係EK/BK閙人，但最緊要係 ...
作者: JoJo 時間: 13-4-15 11:02
版主按: 請會員能冷靜及理性討論, 切勿用侮辱人的言詞. 如仍有會員違規, 管理員會將該違規會員禁言以作冷靜, 敬請注意!
作者: 阿Yan 時間: 13-4-15 13:53 標題: 回覆：培養孩子創意思維
FYI, Lutheran Academy IS really an IBDP candidate school now. Application for PYP and MYP is also under progress.
The school posted this as good news before on the website. Maybe some more updated news of the school covered the older news.
作者: annie40 時間: 13-4-15 15:06
回復 shadeslayer 的帖子
客觀比較 IBDP 和 DSE，應該 ANChan 最有資格。
**** ****
一般Anchan 的见解比较客观持平, 说ANChan 最有資格, 是有点个人崇拜! 事非必要唔好摆佢上神台啊!
作者: ANChan59 時間: 13-4-15 20:46 標題: 回覆：annie40 的帖子
多謝妳的公道說話。
作者: JL3 時間: 13-4-15 21:03 標題: 引用：多謝妳的公道說話。
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原帖由 ANChan59 於 13-04-15 發表
多謝妳的公道說話。
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-15 21:19 標題: 引用：多謝妳的公道說話。+
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 13-4-15 23:31 編輯
原帖由 ANChan59 於 13-04-15 發表
多謝妳的公道說話。
他D網誌一早上左神枱，不用我擺了。
作者: Annie123 時間: 13-4-15 21:45
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作者: ANChan59 時間: 13-4-15 22:06 標題: 回覆：shadeslayer 的帖子
我都明白，言者無心，聽者有意，唔一定跟你有關，Annie只是善意提醒。
作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-15 22:09
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作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-15 22:20
回復 talent2000 的帖子
Why would 45 years of history be considered short? Or are you referring to the MYP or PYP programs?
作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-15 22:23
回復 talent2000 的帖子
What is the key point in this survey that you are referencing?
作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-15 22:33
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作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-15 22:37
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作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-15 23:15
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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-15 23:35
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 13-4-15 23:44 編輯
talent2000 發表於 13-4-15 22:33
45 years? It is just a flash in our educational history. I am not specialist in it but I have read s ...
Alas, the HK DSE is 44 years behind.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-15 23:47
回復 talent2000 的帖子
I never said the IB system is perfect in HK. I just want to know why you are so critical of it as a curriculum. In the article you posted, the author actually gave IB a slight edge over AP. And there doesn't look to be much alternatives. It is interesting that schools are experimenting with their own programs, but I don't think a school in HK experimenting with its own program will go very far in getting students to the top universities in the world.
作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-15 23:53
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作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-15 23:55
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作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-15 23:57
回復 talent2000 的帖子
Direct quotes from the article:
"Most objective observers tend to give the edge to the IB because it is a fully-developed program encompassing academic athletic, cultural, and social development components. Seasoned education observer Jay Mathews of The Washington Post contends that “both programs are top notch.” When pressed to choose one over the other, he gave a slight edge to the IB"
"After helping to introduce the IB at Upper Canada College in 1997 and heading both a leading Canadian AP school and a leading IB school, I would also rate the IB as superior in terms of promoting deeper learning and student engagement"
An open question doesn't mean that one of the two alternatives cannot have an edge over the other. It is just that a conclusion has not been reached.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-16 00:06
回復 talent2000 的帖子
The whole discussion started since you were highly critical of the IB, especially as it is applied in HK schools, and I thought you have something meaningful, insightful or intelligent to say. While IB is not a panacea for HK curriculum problems, it is highly popular for good reasons.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-16 00:12
回復 talent2000 的帖子
I actually have read through most of the responses after I finished the articles. I do believe in streaming and I don't worry much about dyslexic. Not in the last few months, but some time ago, I have gone through the truthaboutib website as well.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-16 00:15
回復 talent2000 的帖子
I don't know why DBS IB program is part of the discussion. There are many schools that offer IB in HK. I do think highly of the IB DP program though it is not for everyone. The MYP and PYP programs, on the other hand, are a lot more controversial and definitely not as high quality.
作者: HKTHK 時間: 13-4-16 00:29
回復 shadeslayer 的帖子
shadeslayer What was more distasteful, was talent's being so rude to, and critical of, comments with good intention
Yes, that was completely uncalled for but he is on much better behavior today. And I do want to hear if he has something interesting to say.
作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-16 00:39
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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-16 00:58
talent2000 發表於 13-4-15 22:33
45 years? It is just a flash in our educational history. I am not specialist in it but I have read s ...
作者: talent2000 時間: 13-4-16 02:34
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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-16 08:44
點評
talent2000 你真係不再講，笑大人把口。我同你戰友講得不夠清楚？直接回答你，你又頂不順。 發表於 5 小時前
Xxxx
你絕對有自由不回答，但你用點評寫左三十三個字，無一個字和別人的問題有關。如果這是你所說的理性討論，明白了。
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-16 09:02
talent2000 發表於 13-4-16 02:34
最後再講清楚一次。第一，本人尊重任何教育制度及理性討論。第二，IB在香港已經被太商業化而失去其真正教育 ...
最後再講清楚一次。第一，本人尊重任何教育制度及理性討論
Xxxxx
由你鬧人的文被 EK 封了，到現在你的所有回答，包括你剛舉的七點 IB 不好的理由，既不貼題，又沒道理，更不可能稱為 gentleman-like or lady-like。你鬧人咁耐，別人一句聲也未出。誰是 gentleman 顯然易見。不是 gentleman or lady 是否可以不尊重，可以鬧？
作者: lillymarie 時間: 13-4-16 11:20
請問若果孩子的語文能力，尤其講和寫不太特出，是否不太適合讀IB diploma?
作者: edea 時間: 13-4-16 12:38
版主提示: 點評是用作簡單回應例如 "謝謝", "支持", "加油", 不應以句子作回應, 因為以點評回覆一來會員不能引述, 二來版主不能發警告牌, 如果再有會員以句子形式在點評中回應, 版主或會禁言/封戶, 敬請留意.
作者: annie40 時間: 13-4-16 15:25
相信任何中学, 大学, , 招收学生, 不会主观的要求IB不IB, 重要是孩子的素质,那管他们来自那种课程体系. 当然今天IB 热流, 可能有少许印章分, 过多两年出多些不外如是的学生, 大家照旧无面比吧!
I do want parents keep in mind that the real gold is not the trophies, it is the struggles to get the trophies. Look back, the struggles are very useful for all life.
作者: annie40 時間: 13-4-16 15:58
talent 2000,
果然是高人, 搅到Anchan, HKTHK, shadeslayer 跟你嗲左甘耐,
我的立场比较简单:
我钟意IB, 点解? 直觉而已, 学校有得读咪读咯, 相信他们不会点我, 唔认为IB是高级D, 见到非常迷恋IB, 言谈话语中十分飘飘然的,(特别对住不是读IB的家庭), 有点吃不消!
如果唔改搭其他船, 你的孩子似乎也会念IB 吧?
沿途有你, 真的十分热闹!!!!! 希望够班同你讲野.
作者: oblivion2077 時間: 13-4-16 16:57
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作者: redkoni 時間: 13-4-16 17:50
恕怪多事，我是普通家長，非甚麼課程專家，對IB無感覺，對我小朋友將來升學仍抱着見步行步的心態，不認同世界會有靈丹妙藥能夠使我小朋友比別人孩子更優秀。但有一點我認為比課程更重要，就是小朋友讀書其實也是學做人，所以我經常提醒我小朋友，一隻手掌拍不響，多欣賞別人的優點，不期然會減低自我澎脹，至於將來的路怎走，還得靠自己的修為和智慧。
我的立場更簡單，每個人一定有其優點，包括talent2000和我自己！
作者: ANChan59 時間: 13-4-16 18:51 標題: 回覆：oblivion2077 的帖子
非常興奮看到一篇言之有物的分享，相比一般歐美對lB的評論，有過之而無不及。突顯局限性，更好作合適選擇。
建議閣下將此回應另開新帖，一同理性討論。
作者: mesmerising 時間: 13-4-16 19:24
然而，IBD所標榜與其他學制不同之處，例如：Theory of Knowledge, Extended Essay, CSR等，在一些優質的中學裡，早已包函以上之原素在其六／七年之中學課程和教學模式中，那些學生，無論最終報讀甚麼學制，例如IBD，英式的A Level或美式的AP等，及上了大學後也能同樣優秀及出色。可是，若那些優質中學選擇了只提供IBD，則會受先前所說有關IBD之局限，而失去了A Level或AP 等學制之靈活性及彈性，部分不適合IBD的學生便會受影響，孰得孰失，就留待家長自己衡量了。
xxxxxxxxxx
這段正正說出了我心裏所想的。
作者: mesmerising 時間: 13-4-16 19:26
- IBD之評核方式中，有一定比例是靠校內老師作校內持續評核，這樣可能會產生一些問題，例如，學校老師的公平公正性。雖然IBO設有機制去訓練老師及抽驗學校老師的評核水平，但若個別學校或老師心術不正，把學校短暫利益放在首位，要偏幫自己的學生，甚至存心欺騙IBO之審核制度也絕對不難。
xxxxxxxxx
這段擴闊了我的思維及考慮！謝謝！
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-16 19:46 標題: 回覆：培養孩子創意思維
少見的高水平分析文章。
除了幾間直資開雙軌班，和 ESF 有 IB/BTEC 外，有冇其他香港學校，包括私校，國際學校，行雙課程？
話說回頭，這題目開首所轉載的文章，談的是孩子由傳統學校轉 lB ，所以最合適的比較是與 NSS 比較。
作者: jeff76916 時間: 13-4-16 19:59 標題: 回覆：培養孩子創意思維
Arising from one point raised in oblivion's intelligent article, my nerve is touched again. Because, taking DSE as an example, some good schools wouldn't drill their students that much in achieving good results for the school ( yes, for the schools), by giving time to students to have more inspirational education and to develop more interests. This is a fact that u would know if u talk to your school principal friends. Now, for IB schools, I start to find that however wellintentioned IB is, once examinations are involved, school can be result oriented in their education ( or training). This would be more acute when the competition between IB schools becomes keen. One example may be that schools choose to take Chinese subject as foreign language subject in taking the final public examination, in order to achieve more colorful overall examination results for the school. Anyone has any knowledge as to how serious this undesired practice or approach is developing in IB schools?
作者: Annie123 時間: 13-4-16 20:05
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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-16 20:37
本帖最後由 shadeslayer 於 13-4-16 20:40 編輯
Annie123 發表於 13-4-16 20:05
回復 shadeslayer 的帖子
RCHK 不是行雙軌，但可以要求學校安排轉往其他 ESF 學校讀 GCSE 或 BTEC (當然 ...
Anne,
Thanks but how is this possible, I mean transferring from a PIS ESF school to an aided ESF school? Unless of course you apply to aided ESF school from scratch just like anyone.
作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-16 20:53
mesmerising 我也在想為何只談AL AP而omit NSS. 大概這已subtle 地表明了oblivion的一些想法？ 發表於 7 分鐘前
xxxxxxxxx
AP and A-level are established exams and comparing IB with them is reasonable. NSS is new, may be it is not fair to compare?
Anyway, the curriculum is one important aspect of a school, but not everything. Much like language is an important aspect of a school, but not everything.
Do you send your child to a new IB school, or an established NSS school? Or an established IB school vs NSS DSS? Which was the choice the parent in the first article have to make.
作者: cstchan 時間: 13-4-16 21:01
shadeslayer 發表於 13-4-16 19:46
少見的高水平分析文章。
除了幾間直資開雙軌班，和 ESF 有 IB/BTEC 外，有冇其他香港學校，包括私校，國際 ...
不過修讀 OSSD，除了要考 Ontario Secondary School LIteracy Test 外，其他科目都不是考公開試的。(http://www.turnerfenton.com/departme/GDCE/OSSDReqs.htm)
作者: cstchan 時間: 13-4-16 21:35
oblivion2077 發表於 13-4-16 16:57
IB 整體上是個幾好的課程制度，可是郤有其局限性，而並不適合作為一個國家或地區的主流中學教育制度，伹 ...
認同。不過，因為IBDP是為了預備學生進入大學。理科大學生也應能以該科的語言表達自己的想法，所以能過關的學生，應較容易適應大學的課程。
- IBD之評核方式中，有一定比例是靠校內老師作校內持續評核，這樣可能會產生一些問題，例如，學校老師的公平公正性。雖然IBO設有機制去訓練老師及抽驗學校老師的評核水平，但若個別學校或老師心術不正，把學校短暫利益放在首位，要偏幫自己的學生，甚至存心欺騙IBO之審核制度也絕對不難。
這正是NSS中大家擔心的SBA。因為香港是彈丸之地，所以大家會提意見。IBDP是世界性的，有異議也沒用。而且DP不屬於任何一個國家，它只需要世界各大學的認同。
- IBD的課程組合模式不夠靈活及彈性，標榜學生要文理兼備。原意本來是好的，但同時引起了一些問題值得反思。例如，是否需要學生到了要入大學前還要文理兼備？有些學生到那年紀已好清楚自己對文或理科的傾向，但硬要他們在那階段必須修讀一科非自己能力或興趣有傾向之科目，是浪費他們的時間，也可能影響了他們學習自己專注或喜愛科目之投入時間，以至影響整體成績。所以有些大學學系覺得IBD的學術科目課程不夠深入及學生學習相關的科目數量不足，例如德國一些工科學系，除了基本數學外，要求報讀的IB學生必須修讀最少三科其他數理科目，而可不用修讀人文學科。
這是英式教育和美式教育的分別。美國本科也不算很「專」，要唸醫，大家都不會選到美國，因為所花時間太久！﹝這是我一直認知，未有深入探討，如有錯誤，請指教。﹞
任何課程都有利弊，也不適用於所有學生。IB也一樣。它的起源在於為隨家庭到處「漂流」的學生提供一個可於任何地方上大學的課程，所以它有這樣的取態，以平衡各方的利益。也因為它不屬於任何一個國家，加上當中的要求，不可能是一個便宜的課程，不可能是一個地區的大多數。而課程辦得好與否，不在於課程本身，而是在學校！
只因香港社會對本地的教育制度有很多意見，才令IB成為一個熱門話題。香港學生的流動性很高，即使是在xx國國際學校唸書，不一定將來會在xx國唸大學，所以不少香港國際都轉向IB。而DSS因為其靈活性，故嘗試為本地學生多提供一個選擇，但因條例所限，只能行雙軌課制，不能只提供IB。
學生別以為NSS辛苦，想逃避，所以修IB。IBDP不是一個輕鬆課程，不是一個入大學的捷徑。
作者: oblivion2077 時間: 13-4-16 22:44
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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-16 22:53
oblivion2077 發表於 13-4-16 22:44
我之前分析IBD局限性之文章沒有提及NSS，主要原因是我對NSS毫無認識，後來看了你們的回應後，唯有急急上網 ...
I agree with you that the structural restrictions of IB does not lend itself to being a national curriculum. Given the similarity between IB and NSS in terms of concepts, HK needs alternatives for those who cannot follow the strict academic oriented NSS.
作者: slamai 時間: 13-4-17 17:39
jeff76916 發表於 13-4-16 19:59
Arising from one point raised in oblivion's intelligent article, my nerve is touched again. Because, ...
作者: slamai 時間: 13-4-17 18:26
回復 oblivion2077 的帖子
IB 整體上是個幾好的課程制度，可是郤有其局限性，而並不適合作為一個國家或地區的主流中學教育制度，伹卻不失為一個補充性制度，給合適的學生選擇，而其實IBD創立的原意也大致如此。
Agreed. Even if a country values IB education, local adaptation is required as IB does not provide the curricula.
IBD之優點已有很多人及文章提及過，我不再重複，現只集中簡單地說說其局限性及爭議處：
- IBD 課程內容及考核模式較則重語文能力，不利那些數理能力極高但語文能力較弱的學生。
Agreed.
- IBD是一個整體兩年制綜合課程， 缺乏靈活性，例如學生不能像考英制的A level 或美制的AP般，個別科目提早一年甚至兩三年考，或補考一些考得不好的科目，這樣不利自修生或只想重讀部分科目的學生。
Agreed. It is because IB DP is an educational programme though it is the final pre-U programme among the IB trilogy (i.e. PYP, MYP & DP) which has to be concluded by a public examination for U application.
- IBD之評核方式中，有一定比例是靠校內老師作校內持續評核，這樣可能會產生一些問題，例如，學校老師的公平公正性。雖然IBO設有機制去訓練老師及抽驗學校老師的評核水平，但若個別學校或老師心術不正，把學校短暫利益放在首位，要偏幫自己的學生，甚至存心欺騙IBO之審核制度也絕對不難。
As you have pointed out, there is moderation from IBO for internal assessment. If the outcome of the moderation shows that the internal assessment has overgraded the sample by 20%, the whole batch from that school will be downgraded by the same %!
- IBD的課程組合模式不夠靈活及彈性，標榜學生要文理兼備。原意本來是好的，但同時引起了一些問題值得反思。例如，是否需要學生到了要入大學前還要文理兼備？有些學生到那年紀已好清楚自己對文或理科的傾向，但硬要他們在那階段必須修讀一科非自己能力或興趣有傾向之科目，是浪費他們的時間，也可能影響了他們學習自己專注或喜愛科目之投入時間，以至影響整體成績。所以有些大學學系覺得IBD的學術科目課程不夠深入及學生學習相關的科目數量不足，例如德國一些工科學系，除了基本數學外，要求報讀的IB學生必須修讀最少三科其他數理科目，而可不用修讀人文學科。
One characteristic of IB education is integration of knowledge (especially in PYP and MYP). Higher education has segregated knowledge into different disciplines for specialisation. At pre-U level or even junior U level, it seems that the trend is towards breadth rather than depth. In the real world, professionals also need cross disciplinary knowledge nowadays.
這樣的制度，對那些在能力或喜好方面都只偏向文／理科的學生來說極之不利，隨時扼殺了他們因整體成績而未能入讀心儀的頂級大學，也不能讓一些極具天分及有廣泛能力的學生，報考多個高級程度的科目。
For these candidates, say A level may suit them better for the sake of U application.
- 然而，IBD硬性規定之六科組合之制度，可能會誘使一些短視而功利的學店，為了學生取得更好的IBD成績，可能早於初中時就為學生選定那六科集中催谷學習。這樣，反而影響學生涉獵其他學科的廣泛性。幸好香港一些負責任的國際學校，例如ESF，會要求學生Year 11時，先報考最少十科八科GCSE，到Year 12，13時，才專攻IBD選定之六科。這樣，學生至少可撐握達GCSE程度的不同學科的廣泛知識，已可達廣泛基礎學習之目的，是否需要在Year 12，13仍要文理兼備，花時間修讀一科不喜愛的文／理科？何不專注修讀自己喜愛的科目，全力為揀選之心儀大學學系作準備？這些都是富爭議性之處。
Pre DP specialisation should not occur in IB MYP. Details of MYP may be found from IBO's website. Such specialisaton mentioned probably occurs in other (IB DP only) schools not following MYP. GCSE/IGCSE may cover a large no. of subjects but lack the integration of MYP. Knowledge was originally integrated before man segregated it for specialisation.
總括來說，IBD能提供一個頗全面性的不錯教學模式及制度，對於仍未建立一套自己獨特優質教學模式的新興學校，是一個好的參考，在IBO的監管及指導下，那些新興學校能很快地建立一套有一定水平的教學模式，但就要負出可觀的費用及資源來配合。
Agreed.
然而，IBD所標榜與其他學制不同之處，例如：Theory of Knowledge, Extended Essay, CSR (CAS?)等，在一些優質的中學裡，早已包函以上之原素在其六／七年之中學課程和教學模式中，那些學生，無論最終報讀甚麼學制，例如IBD，英式的A Level或美式的AP等，及上了大學後也能同樣優秀及出色。可是，若那些優質中學選擇了只提供IBD，則會受先前所說有關IBD之局限，而失去了A Level或AP 等學制之靈活性及彈性，部分不適合IBD的學生便會受影響，孰得孰失，就留待家長自己衡量了。
Despite being the most popular programme among IB's trilogy, I always think DP exhibits the least 'IB' characteristics due to its examination-oriented constraints for the sake of U application. Of course, inquiry-based learning is not the monopoly of IBO and other well-established schools can offer equivalent educational programmes to suit the needs of their students. It is agreed that IB education may not be the best choice for everyone, in particular for the demanding resources required.
總結，隨了需要負出龐大資源，IBD之局限性也不能滿足社會上不同能力及性質之學生對多元化及靈活性教育之需求，因此並不適合作為一 個國家／地區的主流教育制度。
I tend to agree to a plurality of educational choices to suit individual students' needs.
以上純粹個人觀點，如有錯漏，請多多包涵，歡迎指導及討論。
Thank you.
作者: ANChan59 時間: 13-4-17 18:33 標題: 回覆：slamai 的帖子
Thanks for your inputs and constructive comments.
We all learn something from your comments.
作者: oblivion2077 時間: 13-4-18 00:31
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作者: slamai 時間: 13-4-18 12:38
回復 oblivion2077 的帖子
多謝你建設性的回應，提供了很多新資訊及觀點。
Most welcomed.
／／As you have pointed out, there is moderation from IBO for internal assessment.
If the outcome of the moderation shows that the internal assessment has overgraded the sample by 20%, the whole batch from that school will be downgraded by the same %!／／
我不清楚IBO的moderation的細節是如何進行，但任何的制度，也有機會有漏洞，而學校推行時也可以「上有政策，下有對策」。例如，若學校的老師在為學生進行內部評核時，必定是根據學生的一些作業或測考，若要出術，在作業方面，老師可以預先要求學生交Draft work，然後給予comments讓學生可作改善 ，然後才正式交Final work作評核；而測考就更容易，預先給予一定的貼士就輕易可提升整體的成縝。因此，老師給internal assessment的grading可以是按IBO的標準來進行，只是那些grading未必合理地反映學生的真正能力。
我希望IBO的moderation能防止如上述的作弊手法。
The internal assessments of IB DP are normally 20% of the full marks and are primarily written works mostly completed after some investigations.
IB DP, unlike, say GCE A level, is an educational programme concluded by a public exam (while the latter is simply a public exam - it’s interesting that there are even no prerequisites for GCE A level and anyone can choose to take the exam of the subjects they want).
Internal assessments similar to those of IB DP are not uncommon, including U programmes.
While I think IBO's moderation is quite reasonable, it is difficult to find a "fail-safe" system to eliminate all kinds of cheating.
Even in the universities, there were cases that students paid someone to write dissertations for them.
I’ve also read a case that a programmer (should be in America) was found to pay a software company (in India) to write programmes for him so that he could simply relax and enjoy himself at his company every day!
All in all, widespread cheating should not occur with the moderation system though there is always a residual risk of individual cheating in any system.
／／One characteristic of IB education is integration of knowledge (especially in PYP and MYP).
Higher education has segregated knowledge into different disciplines for specialisation.
At pre-U level or even junior U level, it seems that the trend is towards breadth rather than depth.
In the real world, professionals also need cross disciplinary knowledge nowadays.
Pre DP specialisation should not occur in IB MYP.
Details of MYP may be found from IBO's website.
Such specialisaton mentioned probably occurs in other (IB DP only) schools not following MYP.
.／／
學校推行IBD，不一定要同時推行PYP或MYP。即使有同時推行，卻沒有一個如GCSE般的公開試去確保學生真的有廣泛及涉臘多科的基本知識並達一定程度。
While public exams are unavoidable for one reason or another and it is agreed that students should have 廣泛及涉臘多科的基本知識並達一定程度, the question I want to discuss is the need to have two public exams within a short (two-year) period.
GCSE cannot serve the purpose for U application.
With the contemporary inflation of academic qualifications and alternative vocational training, the purpose of GCSE to serve as employment qualifications may also be limited.
至於Pre-U或junior U is towards breadth是對的，但rather than depth則富爭議性，有不少大學教授投訴大學新生對學科的基本功嚴重不足，但學科的學術發展一日千里，越來越難在指定學年讓學生掌握日益增多的基本但重要的學科知識。因此，一些大學的個別學系對學生在中學曾修讀那科及達那水平有嚴格的規定。
In this age of information explosion, it is difficult to spoon-feed U students all the “required knowledge” before they graduate.
In some professions, they change the entry requirements from bachelor degree to master degree.
In some places (like Hong Kong), they add one year to U education. In general, learning high level transferrable skills is emphasized so that U graduates can continuously develop their knowledge after graduation.
也同意professionals also need cross disciplinary knowledge nowadays.，但若學校只推行IBD 未必能有效使學生達到此要求。
I didn’t mean IB DP could alone achieve it but only work towards it as IB DP is merely a pre-U programme.
It’s probably my fault that I didn’t express myself clearly.
從教育角度來看，學生應該有廣泛的基礎學習，涉獵多個 文理科目，要做到 文中有理，理中有文。可是，我認為單靠IBD去達致文中有理或理中有文是不足夠 ，也不需要。因為學生中學 時若只按IBD課程學習，只得一科是文／理，是不足以達廣泛基礎學習的要求（當然若學校同時推MYP可能會好些）。其實，英國的GCSE OL 十 兩年的GCE AL是頗理想的學制，因為GCSE正是一個廣泛而基本的程度，適合作一般普及教育，並為能上AL及 大學 的學生打好廣泛學習的基礎，文理兼備。到了AL，可不需要再文理兼傋，而是專注在喜愛的文／理科目，當然，個別學生喜歡在AL仍然文理兼備，在AL制度下是容許的，這正是AL靈活富彈性之處。
It is allowed to take another science or humanities subject for group 6 in IB DP.
With the norm of taking 3 A levels, it is difficult to be文理兼備.
Even for GCSE, there is freedom in picking the subjects and no specific requirements for 文理兼備.
Back in the old days of HKCEE, it could not be said to be the norm for students to pick subjects to be文理兼備.
Unlike HKCEE/GCSE, the curriculum of MYP covers eight subject groups of at least two languages, humanities, sciences, mathematics, arts, physical education and technology, plus a personal project in the final year of MYP.
／／GCSE/IGCSE may cover a large no. of subjects but lack the integration of MYP.
Knowledge was originally integrated before man segregated it for specialisation／／
我認為GCSE多個科目之Integration 不是大問題，這視乎老師的教學手法，是否懂得引渡學生將知識螎匯貫通，我認識不少優質學校的課程及教學模式（不是行MYP)，都能有效地將多方面學科知識結合，而又同時能讓學生達到個別學科的學術水平要求。
I think it is not the norm but exception for schools following GCSE to integrate knowledge from a wide spectrum because it is simply not the requirement of the curriculum.
HKCEE resembled GCSE and I couldn’t find such integration therein as well.
//Despite being the most popular programme among IB's trilogy, I always think DP exhibits the least 'IB' characteristics due to its examination-oriented constraints for the sake of U application.
Of course, inquiry-based learning is not the monopoly of IBO and other well-established schools can offer equivalent educational programmes to suit the needs of their students.
It is agreed that IB education may not be the best choice for everyone, in particular for the demanding resources required.//
同意。正如我之前講過，IB的優質教學模式，對䣁些未 能建立自己一套的學校十分有用及能保證學校的教學質素至少有一 定水平。然而，行其他制度的學校，並沒有一套如IB之嚴謹模式跟從及被IBO持續監管，所提供的教學模式是各自修行，不同學校所提供的教學質素參差很大。
Yes, agreed.
Thank you.
作者: oblivion2077 時間: 13-4-18 16:49
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作者: shadeslayer 時間: 13-4-18 23:14
以上的是很好討論。
差開少少，既然 NSS 是 model IB，或它們是接近的學制，IB 給人的印象是綜合語文解難能力強， NSS 可以短期達到相約效果嗎？
作者: oblivion2077 時間: 13-4-19 00:02
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作者: slamai 時間: 13-4-22 14:04
回復 shadeslayer 的帖子
To inculcate inquiry-based learning in Hong Kong’s educational system, the last 3 years of secondary school (NSS) will not be effective.
Worse still, there is a lack of inquiry-based learning environment in the classroom (re: for both teachers and students) and parental support (re: to both the government policy and their children).
Back to language education, I don’t think it is the best part of IB as the primary characteristic of IB should be inquiry-based learning which can be better applied in science and humanities subjects. For language subjects (and also maths), the application of inquiry-based learning is more difficult and limited. Providing a good environment which encourages reading and writing can be conducive to language learning.
Again, starting it in the last 3 years of secondary school (NSS) will be a bit late.
作者: slamai 時間: 13-4-22 14:13
本帖最後由 slamai 於 13-4-22 14:15 編輯
回復 oblivion2077 的帖子
Thank you for your supplement which I have little to add as we are largely in agreement though putting across our ideas from different angles.
For GCSE, I'd like to quote from Wikipedia the following section on "controlled assessment" which can be compared with the internal assessment of IB DP (both pros and cons):
Controlled Assessment
In some subjects, one or more controlled assessment assignments may also be completed. Controlled Assessment can contribute to anything from 10–60% of a pupil's final grade, with more practical subjects, such as design and technology (60%), art (60%), ICT (60%) ,music (60%) and English (60%) often having a heavier coursework element. The rest of a pupil's grade (normally the majority) is determined by their performance in examinations. These exams may either be terminal exams at the end of Year 11, a series of modular examinations taken throughout the course, or a combination of the two. Pupils can sometimes resit modular examinations later in the course and attempt to improve their grade.
In terms of stress, the upside of controlled assessment is that it can help to ease the stress of examination because students who undertake their coursework with skill and diligence have already achieved around 20% of the marks accounting for their final grade, however the downside is that this means students have a greater workload to complete, sometimes having to produce a large amount of work for a minimal part of the overall grade. For example, in English a student may have to complete 4 pieces of coursework, each over a thousand words long, which individually only account for 5% of the grade. However, this varies between exam boards.
Controlled assessment was usually completed outside of lessons, however concerns about cheating have meant that more and more is now being completed in the classroom, under supervision. For many courses starting in September 2009, including those in Economics, Science and History, a requirement will be that controlled assessment is completed in a controlled environment within schools. Design and Technology subjects also switch to the new, more controlled, environment, with time limits and restrictions on the variety of projects allowed.[9] However, despite hopes that controlled assessment would eliminate the possibility of cheating, it still goes on. There are many cases of teachers allowing students to complete the work at home after the teacher has corrected and marked it, which does not comply with the 'controlled' element of this assessment. An Ofqual investigation shows that most teachers are deeply dissatisfied with controlled assessment - and it is incredibly surprising that it was launched without a trial run.
I understand it differs from the international version, i.e. IGCSE, which is commonly adopted in Hong Kong and mostly examination-oriented.
作者: oblivion2077 時間: 13-4-22 15:08
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作者: oblivion2077 時間: 13-4-22 15:22
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作者: ANChan59 時間: 13-4-22 15:51
回復 oblivion2077 的帖子
lB例如英文HL，除了oral 是Internal Assessment，佔30%，其他3份公開試卷分別佔25%，25%，40%。每份卷各自有Score Boundaries, 如果lA跟公開試成績接近，作弊的機會理應不大。如果科科lA都偏高，systematic cheating 機會大増，不然，誤差還是會有。
我再細看lA要7，要25+/30。其他卷需要20+/25及34+/40才取得7，各個細分都要80%以上才可以取7，作弊空間不大。
作者: oblivion2077 時間: 13-4-22 15:59
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作者: oblivion2077 時間: 13-4-22 16:10
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作者: ANChan59 時間: 13-4-22 16:34 標題: 回覆：oblivion2077 的帖子
我看過其他級別，自4以上，都是合理水平對照，好有透明度，遲些PM給你作參考。
擔心作弊，我覺得不必要。亦令一知半解者，誤會lB的lA作弊。
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